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better to keep those two for one more ride and see if we can get any improvement from them. If not, cut them after next season as their cap hit would be much less
Time to put this BEN **** to rest!
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better to keep those two for one more ride and see if we can get any improvement from them. If not, cut them after next season as their cap hit would be much less
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don't forget field goal Bill. I used to hate that guy for playing it so safe. But I almost cried the day he retired and would love to have him back.
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You're right. My mistake. He still has a higher dead money rate than Steve Smith. If he is cut after the season then they'll have $3.8M of dead money. Smith is only $2.2M. Yes, cutting him after 2015 will give you a savings but you'll still have ~$2.9M dead money hit.
My point still remains. The Steelers could have signed Smith. They could have let Worilds walk and saved $9.7M. Lots of things they could have done. But with bad drafting no amount of cap space is going to help them. You could bring in every high priced FA every year and draft poorly and you'll suck... ask Daniel Synder or Jerry Jones.
when you have Kordell, a FG is a pretty damn good thing. Two examples when he put the ball in Stewarts hands to win a game. 1997 AFCCgame, we are in FG range already with the lead, he lets kordell throw it, and he throws to the one guy that is triple covered. 2001 AFCCgame, Kordell throws it 29 times in the first half.
All the more reason to get the current regime out of there and hire some guys who know what they're doing, early or late in the draft.
Valid points and I agree.
Oh I used to call him Field Goal Bill (FGB) a lot of times too. I don't miss that one though because he was replaced by Field Goal Bruce and now Field Goal Todd.
P
POP
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O hasn't evolved all that much
If you notice, when we move the ball in the passing game, it mostly is from going "backyard" football, with Ben just waiting for the receivers to break their routes. Is that good or bad? IDK, but I do know it is still how most of our passing yards come about. I do wish he could just drop back 3 or 5 steps and sling it, like Brady, Rogers and Manning, but it just isn't how Ben gets it done. If you watch a lot of the pass plays, the WR run routes and then Ben buys time and they just break away from the coverage in whatever direction they can and Ben has to read where he thinks they will be. It''s just how he plays and he is not going to change.
If you notice, when we move the ball in the passing game, it mostly is from going "backyard" football, with Ben just waiting for the receivers to break their routes. Is that good or bad? IDK, but I do know it is still how most of our passing yards come about. I do wish he could just drop back 3 or 5 steps and sling it, like Brady, Rogers and Manning, but it just isn't how Ben gets it done. If you watch a lot of the pass plays, the WR run routes and then Ben buys time and they just break away from the coverage in whatever direction they can and Ben has to read where he thinks they will be. It''s just how he plays and he is not going to change.
. . .except for last half of last year, running the no huddle . . .except for 3 games this year when he was hitting wr's out of breaks and breaking NFL records . . .my biggest issue with ben is that are times when we could throw the ball away instead of forcing it or taking a sack. The 3-5 step drop, quick release calls are on Tomlin/Haley, thats game planning and play calling. The "backyard" football stuff is just Ben trying making lemonaid out of lemmons. When the receivers run bad or wrong routes and/or when the O-line has one of their ****-the-bed games, thats not ALL Ben's fault.
short routes are there quite often. Wish Ben would leave ego at door and hit open man.
you have to have real WR's that actually know the playbook, Brown is the only one that doesn't screw up his routes and teams aren't stupid they know that and try to take him away. Wheaton, Bryant, DHB screw up all the damn time. Rodgers holds the ball as much as Ben does, and takes unecessary sacks. For not knowing what the hell he's doing, ben is completing like 67% of his passes and a QB rating over 100. He was bad this past game no doubt, but Bryant dropped a TD to make it 10-0,
Bell dropped a 3rd pass for a first down with us up 6-0, and Miller tripped over the goal line on a pass that would've made it 28-20.
Oh and here's a news flash, the majority of teams that have ever played in the NFL would love to have a Manning, Brady, Rodgers at QB, but it's not that easy to find one.
and ben's comp% and qb rating career wise are almost identical to Brady's.
Bell dropped a 3rd pass for a first down with us up 6-0, and Miller tripped over the goal line on a pass that would've made it 28-20.
Oh and here's a news flash, the majority of teams that have ever played in the NFL would love to have a Manning, Brady, Rodgers at QB, but it's not that easy to find one.
and ben's comp% and qb rating career wise are almost identical to Brady's.
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One poster's opinion. I think Ben R. has great numbers to back up his style of play. I too want him to connect every pass, hit every touch down, just isn't going to happen. What he is giving us, is very good. He is a lot of why we are 7-5, both ways on the arguement. OBVIOUSLY, I want the wins. If you are somehow wanting us to move on from Ben R>, then you need to rethink as it is VERY difficult to find another HOf QB.
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Bens backyard style of football is because he is afraid to let go of the ball sometimes until he sees a WIDE open receiver.
This notion that he is extending the play was created when he came into the league because he is afraid to let go of the ball.
In the early years I always claimed that no one was worried that every big play they had was a busted play that Ben pulled a rabbit.
Throwing from the pocket is a craft. Understanding and reading defense is a craft. The great ones study their craft and that's how they perfect it as they get older. From the shoulders up.
He doesn't anticipate receivers well and that's how he developed such a good pump fake. From not wanting to let it go...
He is a streaky QB and now that the team is solely on his shoulders they are a 8-8 team. When he is good they win. When he is bad they lose.
This notion that he is extending the play was created when he came into the league because he is afraid to let go of the ball.
In the early years I always claimed that no one was worried that every big play they had was a busted play that Ben pulled a rabbit.
Throwing from the pocket is a craft. Understanding and reading defense is a craft. The great ones study their craft and that's how they perfect it as they get older. From the shoulders up.
He doesn't anticipate receivers well and that's how he developed such a good pump fake. From not wanting to let it go...
He is a streaky QB and now that the team is solely on his shoulders they are a 8-8 team. When he is good they win. When he is bad they lose.
Quote Originally Posted by POP View Post
If you notice, when we move the ball in the passing game, it mostly is from going "backyard" football, with Ben just waiting for the receivers to break their routes. Is that good or bad? IDK, but I do know it is still how most of our passing yards come about. I do wish he could just drop back 3 or 5 steps and sling it, like Brady, Rogers and Manning, but it just isn't how Ben gets it done. If you watch a lot of the pass plays, the WR run routes and then Ben buys time and they just break away from the coverage in whatever direction they can and Ben has to read where he thinks they will be. It''s just how he plays and he is not going to change.
One poster's opinion. I think Ben R. has great numbers to back up his style of play. I too want him to connect every pass, hit every touch down, just isn't going to happen. What he is giving us, is very good. He is a lot of why we are 7-5, both ways on the arguement. OBVIOUSLY, I want the wins. If you are somehow wanting us to move on from Ben R>, then you need to rethink as it is VERY difficult to find another HOf QB.
Salute the nation
I would like to add something to these points. When Ben had his really great stretch of games this year he was very accurate and throwing with out improvising and utilizing the run very effectively. Those were some of his best games not so much for the outrageous numbers he posted but for his great decision making and execution. As to moving on from Ben that time is rapidly approaching age will cause that to happen. He is beginning to have more accuracy issues than in the past it seems to me. I suspect we maybe past the time when he could have been traded for something to make the deal worth while. I suspect that from now on he will be the equivalent of a good journey man for most of the season and will still be capable of a couple of real good games here and there. At this point our only chance to go anyplace is likely to be finding a fast fix for the defense. This year we likely need to get Ben to win the next eight games for us to get another championship, and those are some long odds.
I'll steal a line from Angels in The Outfield,"It could happen" but it is just not likely.
If you notice, when we move the ball in the passing game, it mostly is from going "backyard" football, with Ben just waiting for the receivers to break their routes. Is that good or bad? IDK, but I do know it is still how most of our passing yards come about. I do wish he could just drop back 3 or 5 steps and sling it, like Brady, Rogers and Manning, but it just isn't how Ben gets it done. If you watch a lot of the pass plays, the WR run routes and then Ben buys time and they just break away from the coverage in whatever direction they can and Ben has to read where he thinks they will be. It''s just how he plays and he is not going to change.
One poster's opinion. I think Ben R. has great numbers to back up his style of play. I too want him to connect every pass, hit every touch down, just isn't going to happen. What he is giving us, is very good. He is a lot of why we are 7-5, both ways on the arguement. OBVIOUSLY, I want the wins. If you are somehow wanting us to move on from Ben R>, then you need to rethink as it is VERY difficult to find another HOf QB.
Salute the nation
I would like to add something to these points. When Ben had his really great stretch of games this year he was very accurate and throwing with out improvising and utilizing the run very effectively. Those were some of his best games not so much for the outrageous numbers he posted but for his great decision making and execution. As to moving on from Ben that time is rapidly approaching age will cause that to happen. He is beginning to have more accuracy issues than in the past it seems to me. I suspect we maybe past the time when he could have been traded for something to make the deal worth while. I suspect that from now on he will be the equivalent of a good journey man for most of the season and will still be capable of a couple of real good games here and there. At this point our only chance to go anyplace is likely to be finding a fast fix for the defense. This year we likely need to get Ben to win the next eight games for us to get another championship, and those are some long odds.
I'll steal a line from Angels in The Outfield,"It could happen" but it is just not likely.
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I am not totally sure on this but if I am reading this right if we cut Mitchell pre June 1 he will cost us 3.8 mil in dead money and a 1.150 cap savings but if we cut him after June 1 he will cost us only 950k with a cap savings of 5 mil. I agree that drafting bad is a big problem but I do believe it is getting better. We had a very bad couple years of drafting then we had a run where the guys we did draft have left( Wallace, Sanders and Lewis), for whatever reason I am not saying right or wrong.
I feel that while drafting is been a big problem our salary cap is a biug problem as well. Out of our top 10 salaries this year look who they are Ben, Timmons, Worilds, Ike, Troy, Heath, Pouncey, Brown, McClendon, and Gilbert. Three of these guys are at the very end of there career( Ike, Troy and Heath), one was a waste of cap space(worlids), two should not be starters(McClendon and Gilbert) and that leaves three of your top ten salaries giving you something. This is where I feel our problem is as well, we are not drafting well plus paying for aging talent causing cap problems. JMO
blitzburghv5
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This idea becomes a problem when the field shrinks and the real estate the WRs have becomes condensed.....its the major reason we have low red zone TD:FG ratios and it also explains why we lose field position from sacks....(Ben would rather take a sack than throw an incompletion and salvage the yardage)
He struggles with accuracy at times, but how does a QB that can't read a defense and only throws to open receivers manage a to put up a 93.5 CPR, @38,000 yards, 245 TDS, 102 wins and play in 3 SBs? How many other QBs that don't "understand their craft" have put up numbers anywhere close to his? I can't wait to see this board melt down once this "average QB" moves on.
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Just look at the guys you posted. Would you get rid of Ben, Timmons, Heath, Pouncey, Brown? So can we agree they need to be kept? So that leaves Ike, Troy, McClendon, Gilbert, and Worilds. So why are they paying them (especially Worilds) so much money? Because they haven't drafted well enough to replace them. They are forced to pay because all their draft picks in those areas are either not ready or have already failed. They haven't drafted ONE TE worth a damn in 8 years... not ONE. They haven't drafted a pure 3-4 NG in 8 years. They haven't drafted well and that's the only way to fill your roster. Cap issues stem directly from poor drafts. Let's say they drafted a stud LOLB.. they're paying him on his rookie contract and Worilds and his $9.7M is gone. You aren't going to have a team filled with FAs and vets because they are too expensive. You need cheap players on their rookie deals that are playing well. This is why they have failed. The cap is irrelevant to drafting. It's cause and effect. They have cap issues because they draft poorly. They don't have bad drafts because of cap issues.
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Ben is exceptional in some categories other QBs are not....for example, hes patient...a lot more than other QBs. Hes strong....a lot more difficult to bring down than others....this plays into his ability to stretch out plays beyond the WR routes and find an open man...it works to his advantage because DBs cant stay with a WR for much longer than 5 seconds...if Ben evades the rush he will find a target therefore his compl pct tends to be higher than a QB that throws to a spot or depends on accuracy in route running or timing. Ben depends nothing on timing..never has.......
When the Steeler hit the red zone, it benefits the defense because the field is shorter...they can use the sidelines and the (back of) endzone to their advantage ...time (ball possession w Ben) becomes more critical so if they can generate a pass rush, the timing (hes got to hold and survey) is abbreviated and hes gotta make quicker decisions. If he makes the wrong decision, its incomplete, or a red zone TO. If he doesnt make it sooner it results in a sack.
Hes never been consistently accurate....never had long ball accuracy. The premise of his game is, "gimme some time/protection from the Oline, ill brake thru the first wave of rushers and buy an extra 3-4 seconds...get open and ill find you." Between the 20's its money......straight money.
Oh, Ben shares some of the responsibility for the team's red zone struggles over the last few years but it's not solely his. Play calling, piss poor O-line play, receivers inability to get separation and lack of a consistent/power running game had a whole lot to do with it too. As I said, he has his warts but people around here act like he's Trent ******* Dilfer or Jeff Hostetler. Ben is far from solely responsible for this team's recent lack of success.
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As mentioned, I do see Ben as on the edge of old age. We do need his replacement in the wings, this off season. Believe me, Landry isn't going to cut it. We might get 1-2 more good years, but the rest would be mediocrely type years. Thus the urgency for future replacement. DON"T break the bank, but DO sign him. Retire him as a life time Steelers player.
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so are you suggesting we draft a qb in round 1 or what?
I doubt we draft a qb in rounds 2-7 that end up being Bens successor, how many QB's end up being good that aren't first round guys?
Brady-once in a life time. Brees was the first pick of round 2 I think, Kaepernick and Wilson, I don't think either is that good, but they were drafted outside of round 1.
My point is we are not going to use a 1 or 2, probably not a 3 on a QB anytime soon, so I don't see ben's successor for awhile.
Boy oh boy I'm glad we put this Ben **** to rest, LOL.
So your saying Ben is as good at reading a defense as say Payton Manning? Drew Brees? If he was then he would never need to hold on to the ball the way he does. I am not suggesting we get rid of him I am just stating facts.
His accuracy rating was so off the charts because for the first few years he played they only threw the ball 22 23 times a game. His running game was always the best in the league, and the offense was simplified so he didn't have to use his head much.
He got buy on the things that made him who he is. He used to scramble waaay more than he ever does now. He had youth and athleticism.
He got this reputation of extending the play because he never seemed comfortable knowing exactly where to throw. Timing routes have never been his strong suit. Neither has been film study. There have been many questions & rumors about his work ethic.
He is a top ten QB and has polished his game a lot but he cant carry this team.
These games we are losing to crap teams are usually games where he doesn't have his best stuff. Or starts off slow, etc. It was clear to me from the first pass Sunday he was off.
There was a time when no matter what you knew he was going to win some how. Do you feel that way now?
Now if he has a really solid defense that can keep games close, and doesn't have to win by him scoring 35 points a game. Damn right he can still get the job done and win a super bowl, but this team is a looong way away from that.
Expect to see more of what happened on Sunday over the next few weeks. Hope I am wrong but its hard to believe in this team.
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Trade Ben to the Raiders for their #1 pick and some $$$. Get mariota and problem is solved for the next ten years.