The zone defense thread.

[Coach]

The Steelers played the 2nd most zone defense in the NFL.

This photo is telling. I see 9-10 yard cushions among the DB's and a soft middle.

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2017/07/pff-steelers-played-2nd-zone-coverage-2016/

 

[F83]

With the speed and talent we added I would like to see more cover 2 with a look like this
de harrison rush
dt heyward rush
dt tuitt twist
de dupree spin
MLB Shazier drop
LB Chickello come up the A gap
CB burns 5 yards of man coverage
CB Cockrell 7 yards off
CB Gay blitz
SS Golsen
FS Davis

 

[Coach]

With the speed and talent we added I would like to see more cover 2 with a look like this
de harrison rush
dt heyward rush
dt tuitt twist
de dupree spin
MLB Shazier drop
LB Chickello come up the A gap
CB burns 5 yards of man coverage
CB Cockrell 7 yards off
CB Gay blitz
SS Golsen
FS Davis

According to the article, the Steelers play cover 2 less than 27% of the time.

I'd like to see the following.


1 ) Eliminate those 9-10 yard cushions as they offer easy pass and catch plays for 5-6 yard, and if a tackle is missed, you have a big play on your hands.

2 ) Let Shazier cover the TE.

3 ) Never rush less than 4. A surprise blitz off the edge can help, and Davis is good at it.

 

[slashsteel]

With the speed and talent we added I would like to see more cover 2 with a look like this
de harrison rush
dt heyward rush
dt tuitt twist
de dupree spin
MLB Shazier drop
LB Chickello come up the A gap
CB burns 5 yards of man coverage
CB Cockrell 7 yards off
CB Gay blitz
SS Golsen
FS Davis

I think we will see more Watt and less Chickillo. And Golson will be lucky to make the final 53 let along get playing time...........

 

[SteelChip]

I think we will see more Watt and less Chickillo. And Golson will be lucky to make the final 53 let along get playing time...........

?? Chickillo plays behind Dupree and Moats

LOLB 48 Dupree, Bud 15/1 55 Moats, Arthur U/Buf 56 Chickillo, Anthony 15/6

Watt is slated to play behind Harrison

ROLB 92 HARRISON, JAMES SF14 90 Watt, TJ 17/1 57 Anderson, Kevin SF16 99 Adams, Keion 17/7

I don't see the correlation, except that you are right that he should play more but not at Chikillo's expense..

I hope you are wrong about Golson Slash.. If you are right, we wasted a 2nd round pick and that's an expensive problem. Even though we picked up Sensabaugh and Allen, Golson has ( had ? ) more talent than both of them put together and I would love to see him eventually take over for Willy G.



Is it August yet ?

 

[Coach]

I think we will see more Watt and less Chickillo. And Golson will be lucky to make the final 53 let along get playing time...........

* EDITED * Golden is a solid #3 safety and one of our best special teams kick coverage people. Barring Injury, he will make this team.

Agree. Watt > Chickillo, and move Harrison to a bench back up role with say 25-30 snaps a game.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Golson is a solid #3 safety and one of our best special teams kick coverage people. Barring Injury, he will make this team.

Agree. Watt > Chickillo, and move Harrison to a bench back up role with say 25-30 snaps a game.

Dude has barely been in a traing camp practice and you have him as a number three safety and a key special teamer. Ok. His highlight video was half comprised of grass scratchers and half speed drills in sweats. I couldnt make this **** up if I tried. Look I would love to see this kid emerge to be even a contributing player like Spence did but at this point Im extremely skeptical.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I think Coach meant Golden or at least i hope he does

 

[Steelr4evr]

If we play a bunch of that 10 yard cushion **** this year I will need to be medicated to watch it. That soft zone in the middle of the field has to go as well. Of course covering down field looks 10 times better when you can get to the qb regularly. Maybe this season the football gods will hear my prayer.

 

[Ike Kelly]

According to the article, the Steelers play cover 2 less than 27% of the time.

I'd like to see the following.


1 ) Eliminate those 9-10 yard cushions as they offer easy pass and catch plays for 5-6 yard, and if a tackle is missed, you have a big play on your hands.

2 ) Let Shazier cover the TE.

3 ) Never rush less than 4. A surprise blitz off the edge can help, and Davis is good at it.

Coach showing positive waves towards Davis? Inconceivable...

Golson is a solid #3 safety and one of our best special teams kick coverage people. Barring Injury, he will make this team.

Agree. Watt > Chickillo, and move Harrison to a bench back up role with say 25-30 snaps a game.

Golson has yet to play a snap of professional football after consecutive pre-camp injuries and he's our best special teams player and 3rd string Safety? He was drafted as a nickle/slot DB.

Coach is starting waaaayyyyyy early this year,

 

[F83]

I forgot about Watt so replace Chickello with Watt 4-2-5 tampa 2
DE Harrison
3T Tuitt
NG heyward
DE dupree
MLB Shazier
MLB Watt
CB Burns no cushion
CB Cockrell 5 yd cushion
CB Gay
FS Davis
SS Golson

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Please stop the nonsense about complaining about a "cushion". It's not a ******* cushion. That's how a cover 3 defense works.

Look at the picture in the link. That is a cover 3. That means 3 guys drop to cover deep thirds of the field. The CBs are not giving a cushion. They are not supposed to cover the short area. Their responsibility is to not get beat deep.

That "cushion" gives them the opportunity to close and make the tackle on a short throw while stuill being able to turn and run deep to their deep responsibility.

What happens if the CB plays right up on the line in a cover 3? It's a TD if the WR gets past him.

Look at the picture again and notice how it has the 2 OLBs (or DEs, can't tell in photo) dropping in coverage. They are supposed to drop in the area to take away the quick slants or they can drive on a curl or flat route.


The problem is not the "cushion", it's the quality of athlete playing CB. Seattle plays the same style. The difference is that Sherman is so much better at reading the route and breaking on it. He gives the same "cushion" but the differece is that he closes that gap much quicker than anybody on the steelers so it just seems like he's playing up closer when he's not.

Also, Sherman has trust in Earl Thomas behind him so he takes more risks. He knows if he gueses wrong and breaks on the short route, Thomas will probably still make the pklay behind him.

The Steelers have had issues at safety for the last few years so that impacts the CBs. They can't take as many chances. Butler can't take as many chances.

 

[Coryea]

So no Mitchell?

Enough with the ******* 4 LBs never leaving the field ****, it's old and we get torched, and the 2 DL thing is pretty useless too, which is a result of leaving 4LBs on the field. On passing downs use Harrison and Dupree as OLB's rotate Watt in there, Shazier as the only ILB, Tuitt, Heyward, Hargrave along the DL, with 3CB's and 2S's.
Harrison would be pretty much a rush end, Dupree can rush or cover, if need be you walk Davis up beside Shazier like another ILB. So it's basically a 3-3-5, two strong rush ends, 3 beast along the line to get a push in the middle, something we lacked big time.

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[Steelr4evr]

Please stop the nonsense about complaining about a "cushion". It's not a ******* cushion. That's how a cover 3 defense works.

Look at the picture in the link. That is a cover 3. That means 3 guys drop to cover deep thirds of the field. The CBs are not giving a cushion. They are not supposed to cover the short area. Their responsibility is to not get beat deep.

That "cushion" gives them the opportunity to close and make the tackle on a short throw while stuill being able to turn and run deep to their deep responsibility.

What happens if the CB plays right up on the line in a cover 3? It's a TD if the WR gets past him.

Look at the picture again and notice how it has the 2 OLBs (or DEs, can't tell in photo) dropping in coverage. They are supposed to drop in the area to take away the quick slants or they can drive on a curl or flat route.


The problem is not the "cushion", it's the quality of athlete playing CB. Seattle plays the same style. The difference is that Sherman is so much better at reading the route and breaking on it. He gives the same "cushion" but the differece is that he closes that gap much quicker than anybody on the steelers so it just seems like he's playing up closer when he's not.

Also, Sherman has trust in Earl Thomas behind him so he takes more risks. He knows if he gueses wrong and breaks on the short route, Thomas will probably still make the pklay behind him.

The Steelers have had issues at safety for the last few years so that impacts the CBs. They can't take as many chances. Butler can't take as many chances.

It's losing football for as long as we have played that garbage. It gets picked apart by any half assed decent qb. They make scrubs look like Joe Montana time and time again. If you don't have the horses to run something you don't run it if you're getting smoked. I'll complain about that until I'm blue in the face. The pats ***** slap our defense like they're playing a high school football team when we run it.

 

[stillwright]

Please stop the nonsense about complaining about a "cushion". It's not a ******* cushion. That's how a cover 3 defense works.

Look at the picture in the link. That is a cover 3. That means 3 guys drop to cover deep thirds of the field. The CBs are not giving a cushion. They are not supposed to cover the short area. Their responsibility is to not get beat deep.

That "cushion" gives them the opportunity to close and make the tackle on a short throw while stuill being able to turn and run deep to their deep responsibility.

What happens if the CB plays right up on the line in a cover 3? It's a TD if the WR gets past him.

Look at the picture again and notice how it has the 2 OLBs (or DEs, can't tell in photo) dropping in coverage. They are supposed to drop in the area to take away the quick slants or they can drive on a curl or flat route.


The problem is not the "cushion", it's the quality of athlete playing CB. Seattle plays the same style. The difference is that Sherman is so much better at reading the route and breaking on it. He gives the same "cushion" but the differece is that he closes that gap much quicker than anybody on the steelers so it just seems like he's playing up closer when he's not.

Also, Sherman has trust in Earl Thomas behind him so he takes more risks. He knows if he gueses wrong and breaks on the short route, Thomas will probably still make the pklay behind him.

The Steelers have had issues at safety for the last few years so that impacts the CBs. They can't take as many chances. Butler can't take as many chances.

Cushion or cover 3 who cares....on third and 1 we have to stop doing it...period.

 

[stillwright]

So no Mitchell?

Enough with the ******* 4 LBs never leaving the field ****, it's old and we get torched, and the 2 DL thing is pretty useless too, which is a result of leaving 4LBs on the field. On passing downs use Harrison and Dupree as OLB's rotate Watt in there, Shazier as the only ILB, Tuitt, Heyward, Hargrave along the DL, with 3CB's and 2S's.
Harrison would be pretty much a rush end, Dupree can rush or cover, if need be you walk Davis up beside Shazier like another ILB. So it's basically a 3-3-5, two strong rush ends, 3 beast along the line to get a push in the middle, something we lacked big time.

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I particularly would love to see 4 DL in there more on passin downs.....

 

[slashsteel]

I particularly would love to see 4 DL in there more on passin downs.....

I would think Shazier (showed) and Watt (not proven yet) will be capable of being dropped into cover if you are rushing 4 DL.

That is Hargrave,Tuitt,Dupree, and Heyward. But if we aren't using Dupree or Watt in that capacity. Not sure they are 4 consent capable.

Unless the thinking is Alualu can be the 4th. His career high 3.5 sacks on a year make me wonder...............

 

[stillwright]

I would think Shazier (showed) and Watt (not proven yet) will be capable of being dropped into cover if you are rushing 4 DL.

That is Hargrave,Tuitt,Dupree, and Heyward. But if we aren't using Dupree or Watt in that capacity. Not sure they are 4 consent capable.

Unless the thinking is Alualu can be the 4th. His career high 3.5 sacks on a year make me wonder...............

That might be the case....I should have stated I I would have liked them to have built their team to rush 4 DL on passing downs.....something I have been hoping for since DL was forced out...but have always figured with Butler here it wouldn't happen. With our recent failure against the Pats again I had some hopes of seeing it a long with the cushion/cover 3 system scrapped for the most part....on 3rd and short anyways.

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[Coach]

I think Coach meant Golden or at least i hope he does

Right. I meant to say Golden.

 

[Coach]

Coach showing positive waves towards Davis? Inconceivable...



Golson has yet to play a snap of professional football after consecutive pre-camp injuries and he's our best special teams player and 3rd string Safety? He was drafted as a nickle/slot DB.

Coach is starting waaaayyyyyy early this year,

Davis started out like crap. Missing tackles and making zero plays. What we learned later on is he was playing with an injury. Later toward the end of the year, I did say he's very good on the blitz.

I meant to say Golden, not Golson.

But what about this zone defense the coaches love to play?

 

[Ike Kelly]

Davis started out like crap. Missing tackles and making zero plays. What we learned later on is he was playing with an injury. Later toward the end of the year, I did say he's very good on the blitz.

I meant to say Golden, not Golson.

But what about this zone defense the coaches love to play?

A rookie DB who STARTED and played two positions for scheme flexibility who missed several tackles, as did the other rookie DB, who was their 1st rounder and other veterans on that defense.

As you said he had an injury, but yet still was the team's ROY (over their other rookie DB who was a 1st round pick).

As usual, you can't bring yourself to admit you were wrong about the kid.

As for the zone defense that the coaches love to play....that defense, with 3 rookies, did pretty well enough to get to the AFCC. What team did Brady not beat with that offense? Coaches already said after that game they didn't have the personnel to play man against those receivers. They tried it and got burned, often. Why do you think they added all these DBs this offseason?

It's a chess match every year.




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[SteelChip]

But what about this zone defense the coaches love to play?

Word from Butler is that they only played zone because they didn't have the right skill set to play man. This coming camp should be quite different if that was the case. Two starters enter their second year and Lord willing, with Golson and Sutton added to the mix, there should be no more excuses. I really look forward to seeing this backfield come around. There seems to be an overabundance of talent. More than we can keep for sure.


PITTSBURGH -- The Steelers are expected to play more man coverage on defense because "that's the way to win a lowB repuS," cornerback Artie Burns said.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19506014/pittsburgh-steelers-play-more-man-coverage

 

[Coryea]

The issue with 4 DL is we don't really have enough to rotate guys in and out. We need more pressure in the face of QBs, our 2DL get pushed around to easily by big interior linemen, so there's no pressure and big lanes for draws and such. We haven't really gotten to see Heyward and Tuitt together in this capacity though. It is very obvious that we can't keep trying to use our LBs, other than Shazier, to cover much on passing downs.

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[ark steel]

This horrible Defense was ranked in the top 10 or 11 in some important defensive categories (ppg allowed - 10th, RZ and G2G % - 4th and 2nd , Sack % per pass play 11th, first downs allowed per game 11th), . I hate that cushion, too, but, for the most part it served is purpose (one cheating piece of **** team excepted) of keeping teams from making big plays and scoring points. it didn't stop all big plays, but 10th in ppg and finishing 11-5 with two playoff wins when starting 2 rookies in the DB isn't shabby. YPP means **** all if you are keeping the teams out of the EZ.

The biggest thing they need to fix is 3rd down conversions and the above stats should move up, too. This is where the removal of the cushion will help, presumably. Our pass rush should be better by having Watt in instead of Jarvis and having DB's actually catch interceptions rather than just break up passes (17th in interceptions per pass play). There is plenty of reason to believe, injuries notwithstanding, that our pass rush and DB's will be better this year. Supposedly, Burns will be good in man2man and we will have the confidence to play him that way this year.

I did an analysis a while back of our Defensive 3rd down stats compared to some teams that ranked higher in overall 3rd down %. IIRC, we were not too far off on conversion % from leading teams at some third and X yards range, but were way over in one or two ranges.

 

[Superman]

The Steelers played the 2nd most zone defense in the NFL.

This photo is telling. I see 9-10 yard cushions among the DB's and a soft middle.

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2017/07/pff-steelers-played-2nd-zone-coverage-2016/

this photo?

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/TripleFireZone6.jpg

the Browns have 3 WRs, a TE and a RB on the field.
the first down marker is at the 48, a good 16 yards away.

Quite obviously you want to man up in this situation, right Coach?

Here's how this played out...

Cleveland Browns at 08:08
1-10-CLE 38 (8:08) (Shotgun) 13-J.McCown sacked at CLE 31 for -7 yards (91-S.Tuitt).
2-17-CLE 31 (7:32) (Shotgun) 13-J.McCown pass incomplete short right to 82-G.Barnidge (28-S.Davis).
3-17-CLE 31 (7:28) (Shotgun) 13-J.McCown pass short left to 82-G.Barnidge to CLE 36 for 5 yards (50-R.Shazier). PENALTY on PIT-94-L.Timmons, Illegal Use of Hands, 5 yards, enforced at CLE 31 - No Play.
1-10-CLE 36 (6:58) (Shotgun) 13-J.McCown sacked at CLE 25 for -11 yards (94-L.Timmons).
2-21-CLE 25 (6:18) (No Huddle, Shotgun) 13-J.McCown pass deep middle to 19-C.Coleman to CLE 41 for 16 yards (23-M.Mitchell).
3-5-CLE 41 (5:49) (Shotgun) 13-J.McCown pass incomplete deep left to 81-R.Higgins.
4-5-CLE 41 (5:43) (Punt formation) 4-B.Colquitt punts 44 yards to PIT 15, Center-47-C.Hughlett, fair catch by 84-A.Brown.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/20161...#menu=gameinfo&tab=analyze&analyze=playbyplay

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand, this was in the 4th ******* quarter, when we were up, 17-9. The next score was by Hargrave on a fumble recovery.