The transition at defense

[Wingman]

Dick Lebeau is no longer part of the organization. He is now on another team so it is likely that someone thought he was not washed up. We have Butler taking his spot and lots of aging players that are likely going to be here for their last year or moving on as well. What do you think the next wrinkle in the Steelers D will be? Could we be going to the tampa two? Are we likely to go to a 4-3 since we are loosing so many key players to a 3-4? Do you think we might be going to some hybrid scheme we have not seen here? Could the bear defense be ready to make a comeback?

Lots of interesting thoughts as to what can happen. We have had some promising players get away in free agency last year. We had some others picked up from our practice squad rendering them essentially wasted draft picks as all we did was select them for someone else and develop them only to loose them. In one sense there is such a small amount on the team talent wise this might be the best year to move to something else. For example I do not remember us ever being this short in the talent level at line backer, corner, safety, defensive end or nose tackle in the last decade. Granted we have a few guys that are real new and have not shown much yet but even if they turn out to be good are they likely to be the next great one?

We have lots of possibilities in the draft, on offense the only things I would consider would be Ben's eventual replacement if one falls to us, a fantastic left tackle, neither of them likely, so we have the possibility to go all defense and with the first four choices the possibility of adding four potential starters not because the draft is so deep but because the team is in such sad shape, the possibility of reshaping the defense to something completely different exists like it has not for several years.

If you could have your way and sign two free agents on defense that would be highly regarded and add your top 4 draft picks what would you do? Figure that Worilds is gone and no longer part of the team unless he is real cheap. Troy maybe or maybe not, Ike and the diesel gone.

 

[slashsteel]

I think they will continue the 3/4 with the 4/3 and different CB/S packages in situational football still present as well.

Free agency and the draft will factor in. If a S or CB get taken early or if a OLBer and CB is brought in or a DL drafted early, we know they are either standing put or sprinkling change. I do not see a whole scale D change anytime soon. More so a switch in players..............

 

[Drink IRON City]

For one thing, Keith Butler has been around our existing "D" for quite some time. I don't think he was staying up late concocting an all new "D". I see us doing some similar stuff, with a twitch here and there. NEW personal, absolutely, new defense, not so much. He will be running a mixture of old and some new, but not a complete change. As for the draft, with this coaching past reputation, I'll have to wait and see.



Salute the nation

 

[SteelChip]

I don't think he was staying up late concocting an all new "D". I see us doing some similar stuff, with a twitch here and there. NEW personal, absolutely, new defense, not so much. He will be running a mixture of old and some new, but not a complete change.

Salute the nation

I'm sure this is as accurate an explanation as there is...... but then again, how many people wait that many years to put their personal stamp on a product, that has been out of their control for so long, without doing something to make people recognize the value of their choice.

I think we'll see something. I would be surprised in fact if we didn't, there's just too much pent up energy ( or should be ) to go with the status quot.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

This:

For one thing, Keith Butler has been around our existing "D" for quite some time. I don't think he was staying up late concocting an all new "D". I see us doing some similar stuff, with a twitch here and there. NEW personal, absolutely, new defense, not so much. He will be running a mixture of old and some new, but not a complete change. As for the draft, with this coaching past reputation, I'll have to wait and see.

I don't think we'll see major changes overnight because we don't have the personnel to go to a 4-3 or Tampa 2 right away.

If you could have your way and sign two free agents on defense that would be highly regarded and add your top 4 draft picks what would you do? Figure that Worilds is gone and no longer part of the team unless he is real cheap. Troy maybe or maybe not, Ike and the diesel gone.

Round 1: Best CB available.
Round 2: Best LB available.
Round 3. Best S available.
Round 4: Best DL available.
FA's look for LB and S.
This is all assuming that Ike, Troy, and Da Beard are gone and Deebo comes back. Basically Heyward, Timmons, Deebo, and McCain are pretty good and Moats is decent. Shazier's arrow is pointing up. Every other position is a dumpster fire.

 

[Confluence]

Given the present team, it looks like we have all the makings for 3-2-6 D!

Lots of undersized LBs who look like out of position safeties. Or SS like Troy who seemed to play LB a lot.

 

[Shane Falco]

Screw it, the best guys playing ironman football for 60 minutes!!! That's some change…lol

 

[JupiterBnG]

I'm sure this is as accurate an explanation as there is...... but then again, how many people wait that many years to put their personal stamp on a product, that has been out of their control for so long, without doing something to make people recognize the value of their choice.

I think we'll see something. I would be surprised in fact if we didn't, there's just too much pent up energy ( or should be ) to go with the status quot.

I think the limitation is that Butler is stuck with the players they have. Hard to "put a stamp" on things under those circumstances - only so much you can change to make your own mark, unless he has so much of the confidence of the ownership/management that he can cut a bunch of guys and bring in a bunch of new guys to implement a completely new look... and we all know that ain't happening.

 

[steelhurt]

I think the limitation is that Butler is stuck with the players they have. Hard to "put a stamp" on things under those circumstances - only so much you can change to make your own mark, unless he has so much of the confidence of the ownership/management that he can cut a bunch of guys and bring in a bunch of new guys to implement a completely new look... and we all know that ain't happening.

Exactly! I don't care who replaced Lebeau, you still have the same group of guys. The Steelers must except change and m move on from Kiesel, Harrison, Troy and Ike all special players in their time who will always be remembered here but time to move on now.

After giving Ben his contract which will help lower the cap and making a decision on Worrilds then start getting active in F/A to add some pieces to this defense. Don't ***** foot with Worrilds, offer him a fair contract based on his production as a starter the last couple seasons and not on potential and if he balks, move on fast. Get active in F/A and go after an OLB (not Houston whose asking price is too high) but there are other OLB's out there that could fit in nicely. Then get a CB who can start day one. Please, no more bargain basement guys like Cam Thomas. Re-sign Arthur Moats.
Next, see if you can work something out with Jordan Cameron or Jermain Gresham as a TE that can help stretch the field and compliment Miller.

Draft in the first round either the best edge rusher available or best CB at 22. Second round draft what you didn't get in round one or best safety available. Third round the best RB available.. 4th round the best receiver. 5 thru 7 defensive and offensive line.

Please let go of the old players and move on. Its time now.

 

[Drink IRON City]

For years Dick L. dialed up this defense. Confused QBs, especially roockie QBs. Then something happened..... The NFL, started to change the rules. They took away parts of the game, that made it football. Dick was able to hang in there, despite the rules. In the end, the game has changed from the defense we all loved. That defense relied on a physical factor, scared to go over the middle mentality. That form of defense no longer exists. Bless his soul, but Dick L. won't do anything special, where ever he has ended up.
.......... In comes Keith Butler, a student of DL's for quite some time. New kid on the block, out to prove he was worth the shot. He does have some wrinckles up his sleeve. I see way less 10yrd cushions, yes, even with current personal. I see his imput big time in this years draft. I see the front office getting him some players, that he wants. He will "flex" more with the current rules. He will be noticed, but we don't have the horses for him currently. One maybe two drafts, then he will have his oppertunioty shine. A personal note: Keith, step away from the past and be bold enough to grasp your future. A STEELERS Nation is all looking to you.



Salute the nation

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

For years Dick L. dialed up this defense. Confused QBs, especially roockie QBs. Then something happened..... The NFL, started to change the rules. They took away parts of the game, that made it football. Dick was able to hang in there, despite the rules. In the end, the game has changed from the defense we all loved. That defense relied on a physical factor, scared to go over the middle mentality. That form of defense no longer exists. Bless his soul, but Dick L. won't do anything special, where ever he has ended up.
.......... In comes Keith Butler, a student of DL's for quite some time. New kid on the block, out to prove he was worth the shot. He does have some wrinckles up his sleeve. I see way less 10yrd cushions, yes, even with current personal. I see his imput big time in this years draft. I see the front office getting him some players, that he wants. He will "flex" more with the current rules. He will be noticed, but we don't have the horses for him currently. One maybe two drafts, then he will have his oppertunioty shine. A personal note: Keith, step away from the past and be bold enough to grasp your future. A STEELERS Nation is all looking to you.



Salute the nation

Got me pumped for the season... Only 7 months away

 

[MT~Forged]

For years Dick L. dialed up this defense. Confused QBs, especially roockie QBs. Then something happened..... The NFL, started to change the rules. They took away parts of the game, that made it football. Dick was able to hang in there, despite the rules. In the end, the game has changed from the defense we all loved. That defense relied on a physical factor, scared to go over the middle mentality. That form of defense no longer exists. Bless his soul, but Dick L. won't do anything special, where ever he has ended up.

And there you have it. Game - Set - Match

 

[stillwright]

For years Dick L. dialed up this defense. Confused QBs, especially roockie QBs. Then something happened..... The NFL, started to change the rules. They took away parts of the game, that made it football. Dick was able to hang in there, despite the rules. In the end, the game has changed from the defense we all loved. That defense relied on a physical factor, scared to go over the middle mentality. That form of defense no longer exists. Bless his soul, but Dick L. won't do anything special, where ever he has ended up.
.......... In comes Keith Butler, a student of DL's for quite some time. New kid on the block, out to prove he was worth the shot. He does have some wrinckles up his sleeve. I see way less 10yrd cushions, yes, even with current personal. I see his imput big time in this years draft. I see the front office getting him some players, that he wants. He will "flex" more with the current rules. He will be noticed, but we don't have the horses for him currently. One maybe two drafts, then he will have his oppertunioty shine. A personal note: Keith, step away from the past and be bold enough to grasp your future. A STEELERS Nation is all looking to you.



Salute the nation

So the front office gives Butler what he wants but Dick had little too no input(as some say on here)......if dick had little if no input I don't see that changing with Butler. Why would it? And if it does the change from Dick to Butler should of happened years ago then.

 

[Vader]

Many of you people are going to be shocked when you see almost the exact same defense next year.... 10 yard cushions and all...

 

[Drink IRON City]

So the front office gives Butler what he wants but Dick had little too no input(as some say on here)......if dick had little if no input I don't see that changing with Butler. Why would it? And if it does the change from Dick to Butler should of happened years ago then.

The offense was always the true need, they went after offensive players. NOW, the defense is the TRUE need, I see them going defensive players. DL had input, JUST not as urgent as NOW. Don't think Butler is getting everything, his hands are still a little tied, but TEAM need is defense, thus a better input from the DC.

Vader, I hear what you are saying, but there will be a few wrinckles in this Butler run defense. Some will depend on the personal drafted. The 10yrd cushion will still be a part of this D, but I think it will be used a little less than what we are acustomed to seeing.



Salute the nation

 

[stillwright]

Many of you people are going to be shocked when you see almost the exact same defense next year.... 10 yard cushions and all...

I agree. I will not be shocked at all if we see almost the exact same defense from years past....and with the same results.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

He has to work with what he's got. Don't expect miracles.

 

[stillwright]

The offense was always the true need, they went after offensive players. NOW, the defense is the TRUE need, I see them going defensive players. DL had input, JUST not as urgent as NOW. Don't think Butler is getting everything, his hands are still a little tied, but TEAM need is defense, thus a better input from the DC.

Vader, I hear what you are saying, but there will be a few wrinckles in this Butler run defense. Some will depend on the personal drafted. The 10yrd cushion will still be a part of this D, but I think it will be used a little less than what we are acustomed to seeing.



Salute the nation

I won't get into the whole "how much input Dick had". It's my belief he had more than most think he had. We most likely will never know. I can live with the way our defense gave up yards. We always let teams dink and dunk on us. If we can some how start creating some TO's it might make us an above average team with a shot at the big game..... crossing my fingers

 

[str8liner]

I agree. I will not be shocked at all if we see almost the exact same defense from years past....and with the same results.

What, more 3rd and 16-18-20-22-24 conversions?

Good gawd I hope something changes.....

 

[steelerscotty]

The one big change im looking for is better use of our best pass rushers. I know that in these "zone-blitz" schemes deception is used as a weapon but the last 3 years or so it seemed like we would drop our OLB's into coverage way too often. Starting with Harrison a few years ago and Worlids last year, they are rushing the passer only 50% of the time or worse. This needs to be changed to 30% or less in coverage. If your paying the man to get sacks, let him get after the QB! Harrison's INT return in the super bowl has been used in the past as "proof" that the concept works but my understanding of the play is that he was SUPPOSED to rush the QB but made a last second, instinctual adjustment on that play.

 

[Vader]

The offense was always the true need, they went after offensive players. NOW, the defense is the TRUE need, I see them going defensive players. DL had input, JUST not as urgent as NOW. Don't think Butler is getting everything, his hands are still a little tied, but TEAM need is defense, thus a better input from the DC.

Vader, I hear what you are saying, but there will be a few wrinckles in this Butler run defense. Some will depend on the personal drafted. The 10yrd cushion will still be a part of this D, but I think it will be used a little less than what we are acustomed to seeing.

Salute the nation

Does anybody know the number of 10 yard cushions DL used? I sure don't. My guess is that the defense will be about like last year and we'll hear "Yea, but Butler didn't use as many 10 yard cushions". But nobody will know the numbers. The fact is that every team in the league uses those. Seattle used them last year and this year. They used it almost every single play against the pats**. They made Manning look horrible using them. DL used them for years and went to 3 SBs with it, winning 2.

I just don't think Butler is going to be some genius DC that transforms this defense into a great defense without more help. A few wrinkles aren't going to stop the pats** or any team over the course of a year. You need a fundamentally sound defense that can handle one on one battles. It isn't all scheme.

 

[steelbush]

I think Mr Butler and we as fans are in for a struggle. Not because Lebeau is almighty and irreplaceable. Butler has several things working against him....he is in a transition himself. Going from a position coach to the head dog wont be easy. Additionally, this team just doesnt have the talent, especially in the secondary and at LB. Now if Jarvis Jones and Shazier take some huge strides and start to play like stars then it will make Butler's job easier. I still see this as a 1 to 2 year transition for Butler and the roster. That being said Ben, AB, LB, and MB better be prepared to put up 30 a game.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

I won't get into the whole "how much input Dick had". It's my belief he had more than most think he had. We most likely will never know. I can live with the way our defense gave up yards. We always let teams dink and dunk on us. If we can some how start creating some TO's it might make us an above average team with a shot at the big game..... crossing my fingers

I think our Defense had a lot of dick in it. I mean,, Dick was huge when we needed him to be,,,, but the last few years.. his input seems a little shallower. When the other teams held on to the balls dicks output was much less.

 

[steelbush]

I think our Defense had a lot of dick in it. I mean,, Dick was huge when we needed him to be,,,, but the last few years.. his input seems a little shallower. When the other teams held on to the balls dicks output was much less.

Some days the dick just didnt show up....and when it did it was in spurts.

 

[Confluence]

bush[/B];107707]Some days the dick just didnt show up....and when it did it was in spurts.

I believe bush to be expert in dick and spurts.