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The steelers actually seem like they have lots of talent for a change

I'm never going to say there is "no chance".

Maybe Butler will be different than Lebeau. I keep hoping the selection of Dupree as finally a BIG linebacker shows some type of return to the old Steelers. That maybe Butler influenced the scouting process of linebackers to suit what he wants to do.

It's a long shot. I'd love to see Dupree start pushing RT's around and Heyward kick some RG butt. I'd love to see Jarvis Jones work his tail off and get a bunch of sacks by just being in the right place at the right time. I'd love to see us blitz a cornerback or safety occasionally and drop a DE into zone coverage just to **** with the O-line's head.

Good defense is controlled chaos but you can't be chaotic if no one can get around the guy in front of them or can't stick with a guy for 3 seconds in coverage or can't hit a guy hard and legal across the middle.

We need to get our edge and swagger back and that's not going to come from ******* inside linebackers making tackles 5 yards downfield.
 
deljzc said:
I'm never going to say there is "no chance".

Maybe Butler will be different than Lebeau. I keep hoping the selection of Dupree as finally a BIG linebacker shows some type of return to the old Steelers. That maybe Butler influenced the scouting process of linebackers to suit what he wants to do.

It's a long shot. I'd love to see Dupree start pushing RT's around and Heyward kick some RG butt. I'd love to see Jarvis Jones work his tail off and get a bunch of sacks by just being in the right place at the right time. I'd love to see us blitz a cornerback or safety occasionally and drop a DE into zone coverage just to **** with the O-line's head.

Good defense is controlled chaos but you can't be chaotic if no one can get around the guy in front of them or can't stick with a guy for 3 seconds in coverage or can't hit a guy hard and legal across the middle.

We need to get our edge and swagger back and that's not going to come from ******* inside linebackers making tackles 5 yards downfield.
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There was a time when the inside guys were making tackles for no or very short gains sometimes even a loss. More than one big linebacker prospect was selected this year. There are some guys on the practice squad that may have progressed enough to be challenging for playing time and roster spots this year. I have more hope for them than for Jarvis to do anything. We might find that Jarvis just does not have what is needed to grow from college to the pro level.
 
deljzc said:
I think that's on Tomlin.

From 1992-2006 (Cowher), we averaged almost SEVEN (7) sacks from our defensive backs per season.

From 2007 to 2014 (Tomlin) we average less than 2.5 sacks from our defensive backs. And that was skewed a lot in 2010 when we had 7 in Troy Polamalu's DPOY season.

.
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This is a really poor example for several reasons:

1.) DB sacks/pressure is hardly indication that a defense is being aggressive.
2.) You do realize that 1992-2006 is a much different league than 2007-2014. Much more vertical, and unless you have a prime Troy, not worth the risk often times.
3.) Seattle was the #1 defense in the league, and their DB's maybe accounted for 3 sacks in total.

I agree the front 7 have to get better. But having our DB's fly to the QB certainly isnt some magical potion
 
I still shake my head when people go all happy faced over Wee Willy Gay, the guy we ran outta town once and scooped back up after a year of mediocre play and getting released from Pittsburgh West. The only thing Willy Gay has is experience and heart...period. A great corner he is not. He's serviceable at best and if that's the best we got, we better get to blitzin' a whole lot more.
 
Bigappleyinzer said:
This is a really poor example for several reasons:

1.) DB sacks/pressure is hardly indication that a defense is being aggressive.
2.) You do realize that 1992-2006 is a much different league than 2007-2014. Much more vertical, and unless you have a prime Troy, not worth the risk often times.
3.) Seattle was the #1 defense in the league, and their DB's maybe accounted for 3 sacks in total.

I agree the front 7 have to get better. But having our DB's fly to the QB certainly isnt some magical potion
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Those sacks you lose from the DB's have to come from somewhere. Maybe it was just good coaching to find a way to get them, even when the front-7 struggled to get the kind of pressure Cowher wanted.

Obviously, when Tomlin's front-7 doesn't get pressure he dials up predictable X-cross blitzed with his two golden children at ILB and expects that to fix everything.

I am hoping that changes a bit this year.
 
deljzc said:
Those sacks you lose from the DB's have to come from somewhere. Maybe it was just good coaching to find a way to get them, even when the front-7 struggled to get the kind of pressure Cowher wanted.

Obviously, when Tomlin's front-7 doesn't get pressure he dials up predictable X-cross blitzed with his two golden children at ILB and expects that to fix everything.

I am hoping that changes a bit this year.
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Cowher? Tomlin? I thought the DCs made a majority of the calls during the game ....
 
SteelBuckeye said:
Cowher? Tomlin? I thought the DCs made a majority of the calls during the game ....
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That is the only reason for the discussion, had it been Lebeau / Butler crickets most likely.

Blitzing defensive backs is an aggressive move, or at least it was when I played football as a defensive back in high school. Time does not change the game that much. If you can't cover you have to get to the quarter back if you can't do either you will be in the bottom of the nfl and be proud when you get to 8 and 8.
 
I'm on the how is william gay, suddenly a tp CB? I know that swagger can change a player quite a bit. With his INTs / TDs, maybe his confidence rose and WhaoooLa? MAYBE, Cortez can catch a whiff of that "swagger", who knows...... confidence?



Salute the nation
 
ark steel said:
Maybe, just relative to how the others have been playing. While not a top tier CB, he has been solid these last 3 years.
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I hear what you are saying. I am definately glad he is playing much better than first time here. I think his confidence has improved his play dramaticly. I'm hoping Cortez can catch some of that confidence and maybe up his play as well. Sometimes, it just takes that accidental "right place at the right time" play. Wonderous things can happen?



Salute the nation
 
I don't know what happened to Allen. Hope he can put it back together.
 
From 5th round to starter on the league, wiliam gay is all about hard work and playing smart
 
Drink IRON City said:
I hear what you are saying. I am definately glad he is playing much better than first time here. I think his confidence has improved his play dramaticly. I'm hoping Cortez can catch some of that confidence and maybe up his play as well. Sometimes, it just takes that accidental "right place at the right time" play. Wonderous things can happen?



Salute the nation
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William Gay was not bad when he was here the first time, he is better now, and the guys playing in the secondary with him were much better then than what has been on the field lately. It is just in perspective.Compared to Ike and Troy and Ryan Clark when they were all playing very well William Gay would not have been all that but compared to what is available now.
 
Wingman said:
William Gay was not bad when he was here the first time, he is better now, and the guys playing in the secondary with him were much better then than what has been on the field lately. It is just in perspective.Compared to Ike and Troy and Ryan Clark when they were all playing very well William Gay would not have been all that but compared to what is available now.
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That's a statement that I can relate to. Gay is a decent CB compared to......

"William Gay was not bad when he was here the first time"...and that's not the way I remember it. He was decent in the slot but got burnt like marshmallow at a girl scout picnic on the outside.
 
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Gay simply fits the scheme and I think with more time in it we have seen the improvement. Not he will never be a star, but not being a weakness helps you concentrate on other areas of the D.

I think overall on D it will fall somewhere in-between what it was last year and what some hope within the top ten.

Translation somewhere around 12/13 in rankings. But could sneak up to top 10 with a few players stepping up quicker than anticipated.

The players who can make a difference.

Golson - if he works his way into a playing spot by seasons end
Heyward- especially if he doesn't get the extension this off-season. Either way he enters training camp seeing dollars- not a bad thing.
Allen- Early indication is he will be moved around. Inside on third down..... He is a player would could help solidify a secondary if he bounces back.If not the good news is next years crop looks to be top heavy at corner.
Mitchell- second year in the scheme, and without groin injuries-hopefully. Like Allen he could help solidify a weak secondary.

Whoever wins the SS spot probably is just holding the job for this year if they last the year. And are not rotated back n forth. Here is the position I don't think gets solidified until next years draft. UNLESS Holliman (longshot)overtakes Mitchell and they shift Mike to SS.
Tuitt should be better in his second year as well as Shazier.

If Shazier is anything like he was in last years preseason , we could see a star in the making.

I don't expect much from Dupree this year, spot play.

But if you look at potential there is a lot to like. And there is enough veteran depth to hold the spots until some of the younger players are ready.

All but perhaps corner..... we will need Allen to play well whether it is inside or outside...........
 
Just like Slash said above, with guys like Shazier, Tuitt, McCullers and one of Dupree/Jones stepping up, and one CB filling the opposite of Gay, the D could be notably stronger/faster with pressure.

Vets like Harrison, Allen and Mitchell must contribute in a notable fashion or it could be a long season.

I would like to see a couple depth LBs traded to some team for depth DBs in/around TC
 
Confluence said:
Just like Slash said above, with guys like Shazier, Tuitt, McCullers and one of Dupree/Jones stepping up, and one CB filling the opposite of Gay, the D could be notably stronger/faster with pressure.

Vets like Harrison, Allen and Mitchell must contribute in a notable fashion or it could be a long season.

I would like to see a couple depth LBs traded to some team for depth DBs in/around TC
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With the Steelers putting in a waiver claim on the one safety (but missing out) makes me think they will have their eyes glued to the position once final cuts come toward the end of training camp. I could see them bringing in a S if nothing else for depth. Especially if Holliman/Thomas do not give them what they want to see in preseason.

I have a feeling one of the rookie corners will show enough to make that not a targeted area, but the more I look at SS. I think back to RB depth last year. As to one player go down, and the team could be looking at a ruh roh. I love the depth overall. But I think the team will be wise to bring one more safety in before the seasons starts.......
 
slashsteel said:
With the Steelers putting in a waiver claim on the one safety (but missing out) makes me think they will have their eyes glued to the position once final cuts come toward the end of training camp. I could see them bringing in a S if nothing else for depth. Especially if Holliman/Thomas do not give them what they want to see in preseason.

I have a feeling one of the rookie corners will show enough to make that not a targeted area, but the more I look at SS. I think back to RB depth last year. As to one player go down, and the team could be looking at a ruh roh. I love the depth overall. But I think the team will be wise to bring one more safety in before the seasons starts.......
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They also said they would look at Grant's versatility as far as being able to play FS. For some reason, and I have no valid reason for feeling this way, I believe Holliman or Grant will show more at FS than Shamarko will at SS. Which would then push Mitchell into his more natural role as a SS. Again, I have no valid reason for this feeling. Just a hunch.
 
Call me negative, but I think no one will step up at safety to the coach's standards and Tomlin will play his buddy Will Allen predominantly most of the year and we won't have a clue what we have at the position going into next off-season.
 
SteelBuckeye said:
They also said they would look at Grant's versatility as far as being able to play FS. For some reason, and I have no valid reason for feeling this way, I believe Holliman or Grant will show more at FS than Shamarko will at SS. Which would then push Mitchell into his more natural role as a SS. Again, I have no valid reason for this feeling. Just a hunch.
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yeah possibly both Grant and Holliman came off productive seasons. Shamarko is like what have we really seen from him? Probably gives me the least confidence out of all the starters / potential starters.

I am not saying bust, but for me he hasn't shown any more than Jarvis has at OLBer.

I think Holliman will be given a good look at FS with his production you would think they will look up close and see if they can fix those tackling issues that came from injury.

I think most think Mitchell would be solid at SS. I am hoping they look long and hard at this area being arguably the biggest weakness from last year.
 
Our D WILL BE better than last year. You can write that down. I think we have the talent, as stated, and we will have some healthy guys step up this year. It will happen and we will be in the playoffs this year.
 
deljzc said:
Call me negative, but I think no one will step up at safety to the coach's standards and Tomlin will play his buddy Will Allen predominantly most of the year and we won't have a clue what we have at the position going into next off-season.
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not so much negative but we know the position was barely addressed in the off-season. I think common sense tells us it has the potential for being the worst area on the team again.

If one could hold down the position at SS and FS without being a liability and other positions rise up it might be good enough for a bend don't break D.

With that O maybe it is good enough to bring good things. We'll see............
 
We have added lots of youth to the team. We have lost three older players that were starters from the roster on defense. Younger guys typically make mistakes while they are growing into the position. I expect the defense to be better but not great yet. I believe we will see signs of improvement and what may happen soon but expect the growth phase to cost us a few games. If that is not the case it would be very surprising. There are younger players that are on the team now that will be contributors for the first time and that will show some potential and some guys may have the "break out year" still there will be mistakes made that contribute to losses. This year and next years draft will be major rebuilds for the team, if they are successful they can be the steps that get us back to restocking instead of rebuilding.
 
Keep in mind the past 2 years, when Ike was in the games, he was no where near being good. Troy was not good last year either. He had some glimpses of the Troy we knew and loved but that was few and far between. We also had other guys injured all over the D. If we can stay reasonably healthy, the secondary should be as good, if not better than last year. Worilds was good at times but he wasn't worth what he was asking. He was not putting up the sacks he needed to so I am not worried about covering his production or lack thereof. I think Moats can do just as well in his 2nd year in our system. Our pass rush WILL be better than last year. I just think the youth and speed will show itself this year. Our front 3 will be a strength this year - assuming they stay healthy. Look at the positive of what is on the team. If I am even half right on what I think will happen, the D will be better than last year.
 
TDX27 said:
Keep in mind the past 2 years, when Ike was in the games, he was no where near being good. Troy was not good last year either. He had some glimpses of the Troy we knew and loved but that was few and far between. We also had other guys injured all over the D. If we can stay reasonably healthy, the secondary should be as good, if not better than last year. Worilds was good at times but he wasn't worth what he was asking. He was not putting up the sacks he needed to so I am not worried about covering his production or lack thereof. I think Moats can do just as well in his 2nd year in our system. Our pass rush WILL be better than last year. I just think the youth and speed will show itself this year. Our front 3 will be a strength this year - assuming they stay healthy. Look at the positive of what is on the team. If I am even half right on what I think will happen, the D will be better than last year.
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Getting better is not too tough when you are not very good and that was the case last year. I think it will improve in lots of ways but I do not expect it to get to the level of great real soon that might take longer.
 
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