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The steelers actually seem like they have lots of talent for a change

Wingman

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I was looking at the guys the steelers have selected this year and they seem to be pretty good this year. In many positions they look like they might have more players than than can keep that are worthy of a roster spot. For example there are several players that might be worth keeping at tight end but they can not keep them all.
Miller, Spaeth, Branchflower, James, and I suspect they have one or two more whose names I can't remember.

What position do you think the steelers might be overstocked with talent for a change and end up letting a good player go just because of the numbers.......................................................................:applouse:.............................:idk:................................:encouragement:
 
ILBer WR

yep thats about it
 
Overstock,...............................Ramon and Cam




Salute the nation
 
We're overstocked at OLB now too. We have a ton of bodies in the secondary as well. I hope some of them can play.
 
On defense we have a ton of bodies, the question is: who, if anyone, can play?

On offense, we are probably the most talented in the league, at least top 3
 
We're overstocked at OLB now too. We have a ton of bodies in the secondary as well. I hope some of them can play.

I think at S there is some serious depth issues. Only Allen and Mitchell have logged any real playing time. And behind them a often injured safety a special teams safety and a late round safety with tackling issues. This area is a concern if Allen or Mitchell goes down.
 
I think at S there is some serious depth issues. Only Allen and Mitchell have logged any real playing time. And behind them a often injured safety a special teams safety and a late round safety with tackling issues. This area is a concern if Allen or Mitchell goes down.

I see your point, but they have to see what they have sometime. I look at it like this: You won't know if you have a Kentucky Derby contender or a claimer unless you actually let 'em race (play).
 
Good talent. A lot of bodies and a lot of competition. That will make everyone better. If some key players are healthy this year, I think our D can be much improved. Mitchell, Shamarko, Jones and Shazier could be four key players this year to a much improved D. And, if we can get some good contribution from Dupree and some of the other rookies, the D will be that much better. I like to see the positive here. I also think our O will be even better.

If this team comes together, they will be very tough to beat.
 
Good talent. A lot of bodies and a lot of competition. That will make everyone better. If some key players are healthy this year, I think our D can be much improved. Mitchell, Shamarko, Jones and Shazier could be four key players this year to a much improved D. And, if we can get some good contribution from Dupree and some of the other rookies, the D will be that much better. I like to see the positive here. I also think our O will be even better.

If this team comes together, they will be very tough to beat.

Having a lot of NFL level talent spread around the team makes them average.

Most of the skill players on O are above average, and the OL, while probably below average, has been stabilized.

The easily identified problems are on the no-name D. Younger guys, better schemes/plan and better playmaking could go a long way. This would be a good season for take-aways to increase dramatically.
 
ILB Timmons and Shazier, but I think Spence, Williams, and Garvin can be productive at the position if given the green light. We also have two developmental players with potential.

It's interesting because 2 or 3 years ago we had no depth to our OLB and ILB positions... We had a lot of avg and below CB at that time...
 
It's one thing to have talent. It's how it's coached and used.
 
It's one thing to have talent. It's how it's coached and used.

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On defense we have a ton of bodies, the question is: who, if anyone, can play?

On offense, we are probably the most talented in the league, at least top 3

Agree, beat me to it.
 
I'm not sure I see the talent on the defensive side of the ball.

For all the hype about Heyward, he took 2 years to be a starter and is now an above average 3-4 DE. He's not that disruptive. He doesn't dominate one-on-ones. He's not game planned around. He's a 6-8 sack guy at best with average quarterback hurries and hits. Not sure he's a monster against the run either based on some of our historic data with him in there.

McLendon is average.

Tuitt is average until he proves otherwise.

OLB play has been below average. I'm not banking on a rookie until I see it.

You can have great talent at ILB, but it doesn't yield much. Where are the sacks, fumbles, interceptions? It's not like these guys are Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis. Again... no one game plans about Timmons. Never have. He's good. His availability is his best asset. He never misses a game, but I have yet to ever watch a game and say "Timmons was the best defender on the field tonight, for either team". I have NEVER said that or even come close to thinking it. Shazier is an unknown. Same as Dupree.

The cornerbacks are below average. Gay is okay. Up and down. Has evolved into a steady player but not much more.

Allen is coming off a season in which he got benched for below average play.

The safeties are below average. Mitchell has to improve. He doesn't have "first year in the system" as an excuse. The other spot is horrible. Allen/Thomas don't bring much at all to the table.

We draft talent, but it's at ILB and DE in a 3-4 defense. Tell me that last time a 3-4 team had their best defensive players at those positions? Maybe Justin Smith and Patrick Willis? And Smith/Willis are FAR superior production wise and impact wise than Heyward/Timmons. Smith and Willis are borderline hall-of-famers. No one is going to put Heyward or Timmons in the hall of fame.

The only way this defense will work is if Dupree comes in and completely dominates from the get go. And his ability atop of Heyward draws defenses enough away from Jarvis Jones that he can get some garbage, hard-work sacks that he's good at. We can hope Cortez bounces back and becomes a solid corner against bigger WR's, Gay continues his steady play (that's no guarantee if he starts matching up on better WR's) and Golson gets some turnovers in the slot.

This team HAS to get pressure. They have to blitz more. They have to get the secondary involved. They have to take more risks, because the conservative approach spawning from Tomlin's tampa-2 roots and zone concepts in the secondary is killing this defense. We just don't have the talent up front to rush only 4 and get pressure. I'm not even sure we can rush 5 and get consistent pressure. And we don't have the talent in the back to only rush 3 and play solid, fundamental zone behind it to work too.

It starts with the base defense having "wins" on the field, and I don't see enough players "winning" enough of their battles to cause enough disruption for a defense to work.
 
I'm not sure I see the talent on the defensive side of the ball.

For all the hype about Heyward, he took 2 years to be a starter and is now an above average 3-4 DE. He's not that disruptive. He doesn't dominate one-on-ones. He's not game planned around. He's a 6-8 sack guy at best with average quarterback hurries and hits. Not sure he's a monster against the run either based on some of our historic data with him in there.

McLendon is average.

Tuitt is average until he proves otherwise.

OLB play has been below average. I'm not banking on a rookie until I see it.

You can have great talent at ILB, but it doesn't yield much. Where are the sacks, fumbles, interceptions? It's not like these guys are Ray Lewis or Patrick Willis. Again... no one game plans about Timmons. Never have. He's good. His availability is his best asset. He never misses a game, but I have yet to ever watch a game and say "Timmons was the best defender on the field tonight, for either team". I have NEVER said that or even come close to thinking it. Shazier is an unknown. Same as Dupree.

The cornerbacks are below average. Gay is okay. Up and down. Has evolved into a steady player but not much more.

Allen is coming off a season in which he got benched for below average play.

The safeties are below average. Mitchell has to improve. He doesn't have "first year in the system" as an excuse. The other spot is horrible. Allen/Thomas don't bring much at all to the table.

We draft talent, but it's at ILB and DE in a 3-4 defense. Tell me that last time a 3-4 team had their best defensive players at those positions? Maybe Justin Smith and Patrick Willis? And Smith/Willis are FAR superior production wise and impact wise than Heyward/Timmons. Smith and Willis are borderline hall-of-famers. No one is going to put Heyward or Timmons in the hall of fame.

The only way this defense will work is if Dupree comes in and completely dominates from the get go. And his ability atop of Heyward draws defenses enough away from Jarvis Jones that he can get some garbage, hard-work sacks that he's good at. We can hope Cortez bounces back and becomes a solid corner against bigger WR's, Gay continues his steady play (that's no guarantee if he starts matching up on better WR's) and Golson gets some turnovers in the slot.

This team HAS to get pressure. They have to blitz more. They have to get the secondary involved. They have to take more risks, because the conservative approach spawning from Tomlin's tampa-2 roots and zone concepts in the secondary is killing this defense. We just don't have the talent up front to rush only 4 and get pressure. I'm not even sure we can rush 5 and get consistent pressure. And we don't have the talent in the back to only rush 3 and play solid, fundamental zone behind it to work too.

It starts with the base defense having "wins" on the field, and I don't see enough players "winning" enough of their battles to cause enough disruption for a defense to work.

On defense the only three men I think will have good seasons barring injury are Heyward, Timmons, and Gay. I'd add Harrison, but he's 37 years old. We can't count on him. And

While Heyward, Timmons, and Gay are very good players none of them are great. Past Steeler defenses had 3-5 great players on the field. Smith, Hampton, Harrison, Porter, and Troy for example. Colbert and Tomlin let a great defense go soft with poor drafts, and doing little in free agency. We might miss Lebeau more than we realize and he knew how to mask weakness.

We have major question marks and unknown qualities at pass rusher and coverage people. Butler has a major project.

The offense is excellent.
 
del is 100% right. To me this defense on paper is one of the worst in decades. They have Jones and Moats as their OLBs. They have guys all over the field that were either bad last year (Mitchell and Allen) or couldn't even see the field like Thomas. Right now they are depending on a rookie in Dupree to come in and save the day. Not a good place to be if you are looking to do better on defense.

The only spot they have any depth is at ILB.
 
I would have to say overstocked at WR. Brown, Bryant, Wheaton, Coates former #7 overall pick DHB. The good news is we can keep 5 without a problem but do we have enough balls able to be thrown.
 
This team HAS to get pressure. They have to blitz more. They have to get the secondary involved. They have to take more risks, because the conservative approach spawning from Tomlin's tampa-2 roots and zone concepts in the secondary is killing this defense. We just don't have the talent up front to rush only 4 and get pressure. I'm not even sure we can rush 5 and get consistent pressure. And we don't have the talent in the back to only rush 3 and play solid, fundamental zone behind it to work too.

It starts with the base defense having "wins" on the field, and I don't see enough players "winning" enough of their battles to cause enough disruption for a defense to work.

I couldn't agree more with del's point. When the season ended I thought pressure upfront is the priority, at least we invested heavy there with a very good pick on the draft. A hurried QB will become mistake prone and that's where DBs with good hands become more valuable, Gay, Golson, even Blake and Cortez Allen have decent hands
 
The problem the Steelers had and still have is that if they blitz they don't have the DBs to stick to the WRs. Blitzing can get you killed if you don't have anything on the back end. Right now they have Allen and Gay... I don't think any offense is worried about going against that.
 
The problem the Steelers had and still have is that if they blitz they don't have the DBs to stick to the WRs. Blitzing can get you killed if you don't have anything on the back end. Right now they have Allen and Gay... I don't think any offense is worried about going against that.

I think that's on Tomlin.

He is so one-dimensional in his zone defenses. We man-up some time but it's a very passive man-to-man coverage with cover-2 deep safeties most of the time. That's not aggressive man. It's like he admits with his coverage his CB's can't cover yet he never drafts any cornerbacks with coverage skills and the circle perpetuates itself.

The whole concept of the fire-blitz zone defense is that you don't always have 2-deep safeties. You generate so much pressure so quickly and confuse the hell out of all the coverage in the 0-10 yard downfield area (with man or zone) that you take away a quarterback's "normal" blitz reads.

That never happens anymore and was slowly phased out of Lebeau's playbook. Unless it was a short yardage, run first play, you never saw a safety close to the line of scrimmage. On almost every 3rd and long play, we played very typical cover-2 or cover-4 (umbrella) coverage. It was so boring.

From 1992-2006 (Cowher), we averaged almost SEVEN (7) sacks from our defensive backs per season.

From 2007 to 2014 (Tomlin) we average less than 2.5 sacks from our defensive backs. And that was skewed a lot in 2010 when we had 7 in Troy Polamalu's DPOY season.

In the last four seasons it's been 2, 1, 3 and zero sacks from the defensive backs.

That tells me on pass plays we are playing WAY back in zones and shells. We rarely if ever "fire blitz" anything anymore on 3rd and long except the now completely overused X-cross blitz with the inside linebackers. That's the only first blitz we seem to use anymore and that is becoming awfully easy to see coming.

After that, it's basically one or both of the OLB doing their thing, sometimes an inside linebacker comes in on a delay over the A or B gap but nothing crazy. Not the way it used to be. Not the 9 guys on the line of scrimmage chaos we sometimes flashed and actually CHANGED who rushed (now we stand everyone up thinking it fools people but we always send the same guys).

This is all on Tomlin. His conservative Tampa-2 defensive roots have messed with the defense way too much and he doesn't have any transcendent player to save his poor coaching *** like he did in 2008 and 2010.
 
I agree with that. I'm not sure what it is exactly he is trying to do. I do know that it isn't working. Last year was the worst defense since Noll's last year. It could even be worse this year since they have to travel and play much better teams this year.
 
I agree with that. I'm not sure what it is exactly he is trying to do. I do know that it isn't working. Last year was the worst defense since Noll's last year. It could even be worse this year since they have to travel and play much better teams this year.

All depends if the new guys step up ("Next man up!") and if Butler comes up with any new wrinkles or ideas. IF the D makes a big improvement to top 15 or even top 10 then we know it was clearly time for LeBeau to go.
 
All depends if the new guys step up ("Next man up!") and if Butler comes up with any new wrinkles or ideas. IF the D makes a big improvement to top 15 or even top 10 then we know it was clearly time for LeBeau to go.

IMHO there is no way DL was holding this team back. Almost every interview I've seen with the players say that Butler is running the exact same defense with only a few minor differences. A new wrinkle isn't going to make them that much better. There is only so much you can do with scheme. No scheme is going to make Allen better if he doesn't play better individually. Which is the problem with the defense. These guys don't win many one on one battles. What scheme is going to make Gay faster? Or Jones better at rushing the QB? It all comes down to the players. And the players haven't shown they are up to the task yet.
 
All depends if the new guys step up ("Next man up!") and if Butler comes up with any new wrinkles or ideas. IF the D makes a big improvement to top 15 or even top 10 then we know it was clearly time for LeBeau to go.

Or it was time to draft a bunch of defensive players. Changing from Lebeau Butler maybe not much of a change at all to the scheme but there are lots of new faces this year. Tuitt could have a big year this year. Guys begin to develop from the time they get here some go farther than others.
 
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