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The Rooney Rule Under Review

Djfan said:
So, perfection is the goal? We're dealing with people here. Perfection ain't happening.

Why jack up a whole decision process until the impossible is attained?
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Equal outcomes is the goal, not equal opportunity.
 
Vader said:
There is racism on all sides. Which is why the country is looking like there will be a split. Just look at the percentage of black on white crime compared to white on black crime. But I guess that isn't racism? People are starting to get tired of having a group of people that can do or say anything while the other group can't say or do anything without approval. If you are a minority you don't just get an even playing field. You get better opportunities at college, business loans, government programs, government contracts, most state jobs, government jobs ETC....
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I didn't say there was not racism from all sides. I just said there is racism.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Equal outcomes is the goal, not equal opportunity.
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So, only if we have 16 black and 16 white coaches is the league fair? Every other year the sb has to be won by a black head coach? For every black coach fired we have to fire a white one?
 
Djfan said:
So, only if we have 16 black and 16 white coaches is the league fair? Every other year the sb has to be won by a black head coach? For every black coach fired we have to fire a white one?
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All the Rooney rule requires is that when interviewing people for a HCing job a minority needs to ne interviewed also. No where does it state you have to hire a minority.
 
Djfan said:
So, only if we have 16 black and 16 white coaches is the league fair? Every other year the sb has to be won by a black head coach? For every black coach fired we have to fire a white one?
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I suppose it depends who you talk to. Blacks make up 12% of America's population so some might say they should be 12% of NFL head coaches. Others would say that 70% of NFL players are black so 70% of the coaches should be black. Whether you're qualified or any good at your job doesn't matter, what matters is your race. That's what Identity Politics is.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
I suppose it depends who you talk to. Blacks make up 12% of America's population so some might say they should be 12% of NFL head coaches. Others would say that 70% of NFL players are black so 70% of the coaches should be black. Whether you're qualified or any good at your job doesn't matter, what matters is your race. That's what Identity Politics is.
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Or just give minorities a fair shake at an opportunity.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Exactly. I'd like to think we're past the point where we need quotas.
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That was drilled into our heads. I feel that I operate on that level.

The problem with Stillright's comment is that it points out the assumptive part of this conversation. If there are fewer minority coaches, does that mean that they didn't get a fair opportunity? If so, how do we know that? What if Rooney didn't like Tomlin's cliches in the interview. Does that mean that Rooney is racist? Is there the possibility that Tomlin got the job because he stood out as the best candidate? What if a white guy stood out as better, and got the job instead. Would that have been racist?

Interpretation is everything. In our culture, too many seem to "know" when something is racially driven, when in fact it may be that there are other reasons for the action or decision.

I'm past it all. I judge a person by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. I hope that doesn't make me racist. Actually, I don't care.
 
Djfan said:
That was drilled into our heads. I feel that I operate on that level.

The problem with Stillright's comment is that it points out the assumptive part of this conversation. If there are fewer minority coaches, does that mean that they didn't get a fair opportunity? If so, how do we know that? What if Rooney didn't like Tomlin's cliches in the interview. Does that mean that Rooney is racist? Is there the possibility that Tomlin got the job because he stood out as the best candidate? What if a white guy stood out as better, and got the job instead. Would that have been racist?

Interpretation is everything. In our culture, too many seem to "know" when something is racially driven, when in fact it may be that there are other reasons for the action or decision.

I'm past it all. I judge a person by the content of their character, not the color of their skin. I hope that doesn't make me racist. Actually, I don't care.
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What are you talking about? All I stated is that there is racism. From all sides. I also stated the Rooney Rule just gives a minority an interview. Nothing in it states you have to hire a minority. You see HC's kids getting opportunities all the time. Are they more qualified than a minoritity? Maybe. Or maybe they just got that opportunity because of daddy.
 
stillwright said:
What are you talking about? All I stated is that there is racism. From all sides. I also stated the Rooney Rule just gives a minority an interview. Nothing in it states you have to hire a minority. You see HC's kids getting opportunities all the time. Are they more qualified than a minoritity? Maybe. Or maybe they just got that opportunity because of daddy.
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I agree. Lost out on a career situation to a guy who married daddy's girl, once. It sucks. It's also what I would do for my kids if I could. It would be a bad thing to vilify this if we try to.

Racism exists. It always will. Legally cornering those who are not racist because of the actions of the few is a bad idea.

Interview only? OK cool, but the rule came about to counter the lack of minority coaches in the league. So, the results of coaching hires were looked at and it was decided from that data that racism must exist. Poor logic.
 
Djfan said:
I agree. Lost out on a career situation to a guy who married daddy's girl, once. It sucks. It's also what I would do for my kids if I could. It would be a bad thing to vilify this if we try to.

Racism exists. It always will. Legally cornering those who are not racist because of the actions of the few is a bad idea.

Interview only? OK cool, but the rule came about to counter the lack of minority coaches in the league. So, the results of coaching hires were looked at and it was decided from that data that racism must exist. Poor logic.
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I guess my point is that are we at a place where the Rooney Rule is no longer necessary? I know this isn't the P&R forum. The race hustlers will say no and never because if racism is gone then they don't have a job.
 
Djfan said:
I agree. Lost out on a career situation to a guy who married daddy's girl, once. It sucks. It's also what I would do for my kids if I could. It would be a bad thing to vilify this if we try to.

Racism exists. It always will. Legally cornering those who are not racist because of the actions of the few is a bad idea.

Interview only? OK cool, but the rule came about to counter the lack of minority coaches in the league. So, the results of coaching hires were looked at and it was decided from that data that racism must exist. Poor logic.
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Yes the Rooney rule came about because of the lack of minority coaches.....by the OWNERS themselves. If you dont like the rule the owners applied to themselves don't watch football. Or ***** that all is equal now. Just maybe though the OWNERS themselves saw an issue that they thought needed corrected. I have no issue with everytime a HC is hired a minority also has to be at least interviewed. Hell the owners are even now getting around that by interviewing assistants of assistants.
 
Sevenisheaven said:
I'm pissed off over black America and I never used to be......I could care less about your plight now .....stop doing drugs, stop commiting crimes, stop the violence on your own race, stop hitting your kids, stop all the dysfunctional **** you do because I'm tired of my high taxes and then hearing you complain I don't pay more.
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holy ****. good thing white people don't do any of that.

sorry, i know this is supposed to the football forum, but racism masked in stupidity needs a bright light.... about a ******* football coach.
 
Racism definitely exists, as well as drugs, and sex abuse, and sex trafficking, and hunger, and wealth disparity and murder and terrorism and war and a whole bunch of other travesties and guess what? For as long as this Earth exists it will continue to. Life is hard. That's the way it is What's the goal then in regard to racism? To reduce these things and there are three sides. One side is do nothing and not care.....I'm not on that side. The second side's thought process is to create all types of laws and movements and quotas to try and minimize the inherent racism by creating equality. I am not on that side either (I'm on the side of investment in persons of color). Quotas create anger and more importantly send a message to both whites and blacks that the black person is not capable of getting something soley relying on their own efforts and skills. Once you imbed that quota into the system you Imbed the thought of inferiority into the mindset of society. A quota IS RACISM. You say someone shouldn't be judged on the color of their skin but then because of the quota you are doing just that.....you are making a judgement because of the color of his skin! People who support quotas like to say it just gets you in the door and then it's up to you to get the job so it's ok Bullshit. Instead of looking for the best candidates you already are looking for people of color. You are already searching based on skin color. And when that black coach walks into the teams office how many people pass by the candidate thinking oh it's because of the Rooney rule? And doesn't the applicant think oh am I here because of the Rooney Rule? And doesn't the fan base think oh he's there because of the rooney rule? It's total racism and it fosters racism. My side (Investing in black America) is different than quotas. Education, training, counseling, small business initiatives, therapy, youth programs......we need to help our inner cities so blacks are better people, and become better applicants when they enter the labor force. You CAN NOT expect blacks to have equal opportunity when their cities are a mess and their family structures are a mess....no handout is going to give them sustainable equality. In fact even if they get a job because of a quota they still don't have equality and it's NOT because of RACE it's because they live in ****** inner cities. Cut out the rot of the inner city and you cut out a lot of the inequality. Racism is not the problem. Hell you can be white and people think you are dumb or an *******. What you need is a good education, a decent family with parents who aren't a ******* mess and then you will get your equality. The left believes in coddling and quotas.i believe in investing in our minorities but that surely doesn't involve left based ideas that keep them victim based in the ****** situation they are in. You can let your alcoholic son sleep in your home and eat your food and tell him things will be better or you can send him to rehab, tell him you love him and that he needs to get his **** together or he is out on the street. America needs to tell disadvantged blacks to get their **** together and to take life by the horns not tell them it's unfair. So when I say I'm tired of blacks complaining about life being unfair I am being perfectly reasonable. If I ran this country I would do more for blacks than any ******* left politician could ever possibly accomplish and it would start with getting rid of the bullshit quotas in our society. Handouts never foster hard work,creativity, or invention. Do you want to live in America or do you want to live in Italy or France? Italy will run out of money sooner than us and if we keep following the footsteps of our European Socialists we will get their one day too and then when blacks still have a ****** environment, their schools still suck, and their fathers are still absent, they still will be screaming about race but there will be no money left for their handouts because we will be banktrupt and they still will not have the education, social skills, or healthyfamily unit to rely upon (they will then have nothing sustainable and no hand out) . People like AOC and Bernie will ironically (ironic to the delusional left at least) be the final nail in the coffin for race relations and the long term sustainability of black opportunity and equality. The left is sheep in wolves clothing. So you want to say it's unfortunate that people still think like me? It's unfortunate that all of America doesn't think like me. Welfare was the beginning of the economic decline for blacks and the Rooney Rule doesn't ******* help either.
 
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Education system is a fail. But there is resources out there for individuals to succeed.There has to be a individual want to. That goes for all races. You can make excuses or rise above..

There is such a thing as moving out of the bad areas too.

On a large scale nothing will ever be fixed, so it is up to individuals to change their course of fail.
 
Sevenisheaven said:
Racism definitely exists, as well as drugs, and sex abuse, and sex trafficking, and hunger, and wealth disparity and murder and terrorism and war and a whole bunch of other travesties and guess what? For as long as this Earth exists it will continue to. Life is hard. That's the way it is What's the goal then in regard to racism? To reduce these things and there are three sides. One side is do nothing and not care.....I'm not on that side. The second side's thought process is to create all types of laws and movements and quotas to try and minimize the inherent racism by creating equality. I am not on that side either (I'm on the side of investment in persons of color). Quotas create anger and more importantly send a message to both whites and blacks that the black person is not capable of getting something soley relying on their own efforts and skills. Once you imbed that quota into the system you Imbed the thought of inferiority into the mindset of society. A quota IS RACISM. You say someone shouldn't be judged on the color of their skin but then because of the quota you are doing just that.....you are making a judgement because of the color of his skin! People who support quotas like to say it just gets you in the door and then it's up to you to get the job so it's ok Bullshit. Instead of looking for the best candidates you already are looking for people of color. You are already searching based on skin color. And when that black coach walks into the teams office how many people pass by the candidate thinking oh it's because of the Rooney rule? And doesn't the applicant think oh am I here because of the Rooney Rule? And doesn't the fan base think oh he's there because of the rooney rule? It's total racism and it fosters racism. My side (Investing in black America) is different than quotas. Education, training, counseling, small business initiatives, therapy, youth programs......we need to help our inner cities so blacks are better people, and become better applicants when they enter the labor force. You CAN NOT expect blacks to have equal opportunity when their cities are a mess and their family structures are a mess....no handout is going to give them sustainable equality. In fact even if they get a job because of a quota they still don't have equality and it's NOT because of RACE it's because they live in ****** inner cities. Cut out the rot of the inner city and you cut out a lot of the inequality. Racism is not the problem. Hell you can be white and people think you are dumb or an *******. What you need is a good education, a decent family with parents who aren't a ******* mess and then you will get your equality. The left believes in coddling and quotas.i believe in investing in our minorities but that surely doesn't involve left based ideas that keep them victim based in the ****** situation they are in. You can let your alcoholic son sleep in your home and eat your food and tell him things will be better or you can send him to rehab, tell him you love him and that he needs to get his **** together or he is out on the street. America needs to tell disadvantged blacks to get their **** together and to take life by the horns not tell them it's unfair. So when I say I'm tired of blacks complaining about life being unfair I am being perfectly reasonable. If I ran this country I would do more for blacks than any ******* left politician could ever possibly accomplish and it would start with getting rid of the bullshit quotas in our society. Handouts never foster hard work,creativity, or invention. Do you want to live in America or do you want to live in Italy or France? Italy will run out of money sooner than us and if we keep following the footsteps of our European Socialists we will get their one day too and then when blacks still have a ****** environment, their schools still suck, and their fathers are still absent, they still will be screaming about race but there will be no money left for their handouts because we will be banktrupt and they still will not have the education, social skills, or healthyfamily unit to rely upon (they will then have nothing sustainable and no hand out) . People like AOC and Bernie will ironically (ironic to the delusional left at least) be the final nail in the coffin for race relations and the long term sustainability of black opportunity and equality. The left is sheep in wolves clothing. So you want to say it's unfortunate that people still think like me? It's unfortunate that all of America doesn't think like me. Welfare was the beginning of the economic decline for blacks and the Rooney Rule doesn't ******* help either.
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After all of that. The realization is that you are not the only white person to think this.
 
stillwright said:
Yes the Rooney rule came about because of the lack of minority coaches.....by the OWNERS themselves. If you dont like the rule the owners applied to themselves don't watch football. Or ***** that all is equal now. Just maybe though the OWNERS themselves saw an issue that they thought needed corrected. I have no issue with everytime a HC is hired a minority also has to be at least interviewed. Hell the owners are even now getting around that by interviewing assistants of assistants.
Click to expand...

So do we also need to interview a gay guy? A lady? Illegal immigrant? Where does it stop? How about we let owners interview whomever they wish to, and quit being ultra sensitive? I would have Tony Dungy on my leadership team for any venture at any time. Because he's black? Nope. He's a very solid man with a great football mind, and amazing people skills. I would not have Barry Switzer on my stadium clean up team. Because he's white? Nope. He's a knucklehead. It's simple.

So, thanks for the invitation to not watch football. Very kind of you. Kind of middle-school, too, but I took it as a nice gesture anyway. All the Rooney rule tells me is that there is a perception that black gentlemen cannot get to the top on their own merits. That perception was held by the owner, thanks for pointing that out. The same group of amazing thinkers who made the modern NFL the pile of garbage it has become in the last ten years. The same owners who made a situation where rules could be invented to make an arrogant white guy the most SB winning QB of all time. Super racially balanced guys, those rich white owners. They should all go on a Kraft massage tour together.
 
Djfan said:
So do we also need to interview a gay guy? A lady? Illegal immigrant? Where does it stop? How about we let owners interview whomever they wish to, and quit being ultra sensitive? I would have Tony Dungy on my leadership team for any venture at any time. Because he's black? Nope. He's a very solid man with a great football mind, and amazing people skills. I would not have Barry Switzer on my stadium clean up team. Because he's white? Nope. He's a knucklehead. It's simple.

So, thanks for the invitation to not watch football. Very kind of you. Kind of middle-school, too, but I took it as a nice gesture anyway. All the Rooney rule tells me is that there is a perception that black gentlemen cannot get to the top on their own merits. That perception was held by the owner, thanks for pointing that out. The same group of amazing thinkers who made the modern NFL the pile of garbage it has become in the last ten years. The same owners who made a situation where rules could be invented to make an arrogant white guy the most SB winning QB of all time. Super racially balanced guys, those rich white owners. They should all go on a Kraft massage tour together.
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How about every qualified person regardless of race religion etc get an equal shot at a position.
 
Djfan said:
All the Rooney rule tells me is that there is a perception that black gentlemen cannot get to the top on their own merits. That perception was held by the owner, thanks for pointing that out. The same group of amazing thinkers who made the modern NFL the pile of garbage it has become in the last ten years. The same owners who made a situation where rules could be invented to make an arrogant white guy the most SB winning QB of all time. Super racially balanced guys, those rich white owners. They should all go on a Kraft massage tour together.
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"The soft bigotry of lower expectations." - GWB (ironically).
 
The Rooney rule as written is fine. I think it was good because there were too many re-tread coaches. This forced GMs to look outside the box and it put more names out there as head coach worthy.

But that wasn't enough for those who see racism everywhere. They want to see a quota. Every year after the coaching firings and hirings, we have to hear about how the league needs to hire more black coaches. There is never a discussion of whether those coaches deserved to be fired or not.

How can anybody argue with Marvin Lewis being fired? He was given far longer than most coaches get without winning playoff games.

We have seen successful black coaches get recycled just like the white ones. Dennis Green, Dungy, Herm Edwards, Lovie Smith, Jim Caldwell and probably a few more i'm forgetting.

NFL GM is one of the toughest jobs there is. I'd bet the average GM career is only 5 years and that may be generous. One of the biggest factors in their success is their had coach hire. Many GMs only get 1 shot at hiring that coach. Some will get 2. If you're wrong, you're fired. I find it impossible to believe that there is anybody in the GM seat that is throwing the resumes of black coaches in the trash and hiring white guys out of racism.

But that is what many would have us believe.

Of course there are still racists out there, but it is incredibly rare that any employer of any real size is using racist hiring practices.

That is how people who work in non-competitive fields think. Politicians and academics think anybody can fill any job because they don't care about results. The hire itself is the result. Whether that person is any good is irrelevant. Actually in government, it's probably preferable that they suck, because then you get to say that job needs 2 people doing it in the next budget, then you hire a second person.
 
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