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The Draft -- Thoughts from FSF

antdrewjosh said:
I don't think he had to keep butler. Butler and Tomlin have a history. Coached together at Memphis.
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I will disagree. Butler has been promised this job for a long time. He has turned down other DC jobs to stay on. I don't know how much their one year together in Memphis would influence Tomlin. If Tomlin did have a choice most likely their time together since he took over as the HC had more to do with it.
 
stillwright said:
Just another DC Tomlin had to keep. While I don't think Kelly in Philadelphia has done a great job this off season. A lot of questionable moves. The team is his. Whether he fails or not it is all on him. While here in Pittsburgh our coach who is the "6th best" in the game can't even hire his own coaches yet. If Rooney doesn't have the trust or respect to let Tomlin make these decisions than let Tomlin go and bring in someone he does trust to do it, but let the coach OWN his team.
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Let's look at this from another angle. "IF" ARII is meddling with coaching decisions, it would stand to reason that either he, or Colbert has in some manner interfered with personnel decisions also. As I said earlier, if you don't trust your HC to pick his own Coordinators, you sure as heck aren't going to trust him with personnel decisions.

So, under this scenario, if you are Tomlin, are you willing to sign another contract extension? Or, do you go about your business without rocking the boat and let your current contract play out? Knowing all along that as a Coach who has two Super Bowls on your resume, you can leave at the end of your contract and some team is going to scoop you up and give you the actual power and authority needed to do your job correctly. But, if you rock the boat and air the dirty laundry of a team like the Steelers, you probably become a pariah in the industry.

If it's me, I'm publicly saying the right things. I'm actin like a company man through and through. But, I will have instructed my agent that I'm not willing to sign an extension at this time.

Edit: also, for those who are of the "anti-Tomlin" bent, this view would mean that your anger is misplaced as ARII/Colbert are the people actually running the show. So do we now blame everything on "Colooney" or "Roobert"?
 
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SteelBuckeye said:
Let's look at this from another angle. "IF" ARII is meddling with coaching decisions, it would stand to reason that either he, or Colbert has in some manner interfered with personnel decisions also. As I said earlier, if you don't trust your HC to pick his own Coordinators, you sure as heck aren't going to trust him with personnel decisions.

So, under this scenario, if you are Tomlin, are you willing to sign another contract extension? Or, do you go about your business without rocking the boat and let your current contract play out? Knowing all along that as a Coach who has two Super Bowls on your resume, you can leave at the end of your contract and some team is going to scoop you up and give you the actual power and authority needed to do your job correctly. But, if you rock the boat and air the dirty laundry of a team like the Steelers, you probably become a pariah in the industry.

If it's me, I'm publicly saying the right things. I'm actin like a company man through and through. But, I will have instructed my agent that I'm not willing to sign an extension at this time.

Edit: also, for those who are of the "anti-Tomlin" bent, this view would mean that your anger is misplaced as ARII/Colbert are the people actually running the show. So do we now blame everything on "Colooney" or "Roobert"?
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But, I will have instructed my agent that I'm not willing to sign an extension at this time. Yeah I can see this happening.
 
Wingman said:
But, I will have instructed my agent that I'm not willing to sign an extension at this time. Yeah I can see this happening.
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At that point the ball is in Rooney's court. He has the option of terminating him. In all seriousness, why would Tomlin sign another extension if this is what is occurring? Would you?
If he "quits" or "retires", he doesn't get paid what he's owed under the old contract and he can't seek another coaching job until the old contract expires. If they fire him, they have to pay him the contractual salary and he's able to coach again immediately. So yeah, I will have instructed my agent that I'm not willing to sign an extension at this time. You wouldn't. Difference of opinion.
 
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See I think the problem with the drafting actually started in 2006 when Tomlin began working with Colbert. Sure they have hit on some players but they've missed on quite a few especially 2'nd and 3'rd round picks. I've said before that I think Colbert got too much credit for the success of the drafts and F/A signings prior to Tomlin coming here. I think Cowher had a knack for identifying talent in the draft and especially F/A pick-ups. We were aggressive in the draft with Cowher/Tomlin as FSF points out but that doesn't seem to occur any longer. Sure they had some misses, who doesn't but far less than this duo. Look at the F/A signings under Cowher. Ryan Clark, Jeff Hartings, Kevin Green, James Farrior, Mewelde Moore, Wayne Gandy, James Harrison, and I'm sure I missed some and the trade for Jerome Bettis by giving the Rams a #2. What the hell has this duo done in F/A? No, I think it starts with these two guys Colbert and Tomlin who I have lost all confidence in building a team. The only thing holding this team together is one Ben Roethlisberger.
 
And I wouldn't say that your viewpoint doesn't have some merit Hurt. In the above posts, I wasn't saying that the situation I described "was/is" what is happening. Just providing a look at the whole "Tomlin can't hire his own coaches thing" from another angle.

I would say that Colbert/Tomlin have brought in some quality FAs, but not in the amount that Colbert/Cowher brought in. As to why that is, I don't have any idea.
 
Except for the fact they have built one of the most explosive offenses in football. And while you may contribute that to Ben. I don't Bell is the straw that stirs the drink for this offense
 
Take Ben out of that offense and its not so special. Hell, even with Ben they still have red zone issues that they better get fixed this year.
 
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SteelBuckeye said:
And I wouldn't say that your viewpoint doesn't have some merit Hurt. In the above posts, I wasn't saying that the situation I described "was/is" what is happening. Just providing a look at the whole "Tomlin can't hire his own coaches thing" from another angle.

I would say that Colbert/Tomlin have brought in some quality FAs, but not in the amount that Colbert/Cowher brought in. As to why that is, I don't have any idea.
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No, I get what you're saying and yes it is curious as to why he seems to get dictated to whom he can hire. Its like big brother knows best. Tomlin is due for an extension and I'm somewhat surprised he hasn't gotten it at this point. I think his contract runs through 2016 so with that being said I would most certainly think Rooney extends him after 2015.
 
steelhurt said:
See I think the problem with the drafting actually started in 2006 when Tomlin began working with Colbert. Sure they have hit on some players but they've missed on quite a few especially 2'nd and 3'rd round picks. I've said before that I think Colbert got too much credit for the success of the drafts and F/A signings prior to Tomlin coming here. I think Cowher had a knack for identifying talent in the draft and especially F/A pick-ups. We were aggressive in the draft with Cowher/Tomlin as FSF points out but that doesn't seem to occur any longer. Sure they had some misses, who doesn't but far less than this duo. Look at the F/A signings under Cowher. Ryan Clark, Jeff Hartings, Kevin Green, James Farrior, Mewelde Moore, Wayne Gandy, James Harrison, and I'm sure I missed some and the trade for Jerome Bettis by giving the Rams a #2. What the hell has this duo done in F/A? No, I think it starts with these two guys Colbert and Tomlin who I have lost all confidence in building a team. The only thing holding this team together is one Ben Roethlisberger.
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I would say they've done a phenomenal job with the offense -- best OL in years and the WRs and RBs have had explosive seasons -- Ben is just getting better and better. And it seems to me that the MVP of this team is Bell, 0-4 start to last year had a lot to do with his being hurt and a playoff loss that had a lot to do with it as well.

Call me the eternal optimist, but I see a team that was a mini dynasty from 2004-2011 and they had to rebuild losing an incredible core that we've been spoiled by. That defense was a top 10 defense for the entire century until recently..... to expect to replace that core which much of it was there since 2004 is unrealistic. Not only from a talent standpoint but from a teammwork and chemistry standpoint.

Case in point, Mike Mitchell was not a good complimentary player to the free roaming Troy Polamalu, especialy a Troy past his prime.

Cowher got a rebuilding period from 98-2001, he was one game away from being in playoffs in 2000. Tomin was one game away in 2013..... give them a chance to rebuild and retool.
 
SteelBuckeye said:
At that point the ball is in Rooney's court. He has the option of terminating him. In all seriousness, why would Tomlin sign another extension if this is what is occurring? Would you?
If he "quits" or "retires", he doesn't get paid what he's owed under the old contract and he can't seek another coaching job until the old contract expires. If they fire him, they have to pay him the contractual salary and he's able to coach again immediately. So yeah, I will have instructed my agent that I'm not willing to sign an extension at this time. You wouldn't. Difference of opinion.
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I think you missed my point or I was not clear enough. I agree if he quits or retires he does not get what remains on his contract. Also if he gets fired he gets the salary and can look for another job. Based on that there is no reason not to sign an extension which is my point. His salary is such that he will be making many times what he did before being the head coach of the steelers and even if one thought he could earn more someplace else it would be crazy to begin the coaching merry go round that would result by going to another franchise. In this case the bird in the hand would be much better than getting into the bush and getting the bird.

I see no reason for MT to want to go any place else and if I was him I would jump at the chance for an extension. In his case he has won a super bowl and lost one, and he has lately not been doing well in the playoffs. He may not have a losing record but he may also not be a hot commodity right now. Further he also runs the risk of color becoming an issue between him and the owner of the organizations from which he is seeking employment and for them to defeat that argument they just need to interview not hire. I don't care what color he is but I am sure there might be some in the owners ranks that do and they may limit the field somewhat for him. Keep in mind there are only 32 head coaching positions in the nfl and I would not forsake one because the grass looked greener somewhere else.
I would instead offer that if he has not yet signed an extension it is because one has not been offered.
 
Oh, I wasn't saying that he has been offered. As a matter of fact, as my previous post (not in response to yours) stated, if we go by the timing of his last extension, he wouldn't be due to sign an extension until this summer. Also, the post that you were responding to is not one that represents what I "believe" is happening. As I stated, it's just trying to look at the whole "Tomlin doesn't hire his own coaches" thing from another angle.

As far as whether he'd be a hot coaching commodity. I offer you Rex Ryan. How long was Rex out of work? Five minutes? He has nowhere near the resume as a HC that Tomlin brings. No super bowls and on top of that he has also not done well in the playoffs lately. Color may be an issue. But, Todd Bowles isn't exactly lily white. Now, if Tomlin had been available, do you think the Jets and Bills hire either of those guys without first approaching Tomlin? I don't. jmo
 
SteelBuckeye said:
Oh, I wasn't saying that he has been offered. As a matter of fact, as my previous post (not in response to yours) stated, if we go by the timing of his last extension, he wouldn't be due to sign an extension until this summer. Also, the post that you were responding to is not one that represents what I "believe" is happening. As I stated, it's just trying to look at the whole "Tomlin doesn't hire his own coaches" thing from another angle.

As far as whether he'd be a hot coaching commodity. I offer you Rex Ryan. How long was Rex out of work? Five minutes? He has nowhere near the resume as a HC that Tomlin brings. No super bowls and on top of that he has also not done well in the playoffs lately. Color may be an issue. But, Todd Bowles isn't exactly lily white. Now, if Tomlin had been available, do you think the Jets and Bills hire either of those guys without first approaching Tomlin? I don't. jmo
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My point was it would be dumb for him to not sign an extension if it was offered, or to tell his agent that he was not interested in one, in his case there is nothing likely to be gained by not doing so. Many of those guys with other teams will be looking for another job in one or two years and that is stressful. He is also at a level of earnings where it will be tough to gain much, not saying he might not better his salary but at what cost. Many of the coaches are looking for new teams rather frequently, I would trade stability over many of the other options.
 
Wingman said:
My point was it would be dumb for him to not sign an extension if it was offered, or to tell his agent that he was not interested in one, in his case there is nothing likely to be gained by not doing so. Many of those guys with other teams will be looking for another job in one or two years and that is stressful. He is also at a level of earnings where it will be tough to gain much, not saying he might not better his salary but at what cost. Many of the coaches are looking for new teams rather frequently, I would trade stability over many of the other options.
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OK, taking the original assumption; that Tomlin has no control in the organisation and is basically just a figurehead, you would not eventually want to move on? You'd just stick around with no control over hiring your own coaches and/or personnel decisions? Just because the money is good? That would be your decision. I'm not saying it's a bad one. Just not the decision I'd make. Eventually, being a super bowl winning coach, I'd want to have control of my staff and stronger input into personnel.

I may be wrong, but wasn't the desire to have a stronger input into personnel at the heart of the Cowher v. Donahoe feud?
 
SteelBuckeye said:
OK, taking the original assumption; that Tomlin has no control in the organisation and is basically just a figurehead, you would not eventually want to move on? You'd just stick around with no control over hiring your own coaches and/or personnel decisions? Just because the money is good? That would be your decision. I'm not saying it's a bad one. Just not the decision I'd make. Eventually, being a super bowl winning coach, I'd want to have control of my staff and stronger input into personnel.

I may be wrong, but wasn't the desire to have a stronger input into personnel at the heart of the Cowher v. Donahoe feud?
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Yes it was as I remember. It also involved the pick of Troy Edwards instead of Jeavon Kerse.

I do not believe that he has no control but that some control may involve the Rooney family. I suspect that the control of the organization is dynamic and may not meet with the approval of all the folks that wish to think in absolutes. Also what makes you think that another owner may not want to maintain some control over the organization he has that is likely worth a billion dollars. Many folks on here believe that MT has significant input to the draft picks and have always thought so because of the apparent change in the type of players selected since he arrived.
 
Wingman said:
Yes it was as I remember. It also involved the pick of Troy Edwards instead of Jeavon Kerse.

I do not believe that he has no control but that some control may involve the Rooney family. I suspect that the control of the organization is dynamic and may not meet with the approval of all the folks that wish to think in absolutes. Also what makes you think that another owner may not want to maintain some control over the organization he has that is likely worth a billion dollars. Many folks on here believe that MT has significant input to the draft picks and have always thought so because of the apparent change in the type of players selected since he arrived.
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Oh, I believe he has some control over the draft. I also believe that "control" over such matters is fluid and not static. In fact, as I've said before, I believe Rooney, Tomlin and Colbert when they state that their desire is to reach a consensus on picks. If that consensus can't be reached, I believe Rooney's word would top all.

As to Colbert and Tomlin and whose word carries the most weight, I don't have a clue and would just be guessing. Many people point to the apparent change in type of players selected since he arrived as evidence that Tomlin's word carries more weight. However, I would propose that it could just as easily be that Colbert's desires carry more weight and that what we are seeing is they type of player that Colbert would have been drafting all along if Cowher had not been such a powerful voice/presence in the draft process. We have no history of Colbert drafts w/out Cowher or Tomlin to say for sure what type of players he prefers. Just as we have no history of Tomlin drafts w/out Colbert to be able to point to a player and say "That's a Tomlin type of guy"

Personally, I believe that the type of players that we are seeing brought in via the draft are a collaborative effort between the two. So, I guess the "Tombert" tag is fitting.
 
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