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The defense is going out of business

Heck, a mid-tier FA pass rusher would be better than what we currently have. We just need someone that is consistent, not spectacular. Hopefully, Bud will continue to develop after his injury and even Chicklo who has shown a decent nose for getting to the QB.
 
MTC said:
I don't think the Steelers have any of that aside from Ben, Harrison and Heyward
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I think the key thing here we don't get any of that from the current head coach. It's not the players responsibility to provide those attributes but the coach.


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We need a real NT. That last run up the middle was just terrible.

I think the defense can be fixed in two years but only if Tomlin and Colbert are gone. And Butler too. He has added nothing.

1 ) Do not re-sign Bell. Try to get something for him. Use his 12-15 million it would cost to re-sign him elsewhere to help the team out for the future ( 2018 cap space and beyond )

2 ) Let Jarvis Jones walk ( Hope for a comp pick in 2018 ). Thank Timmons for his service and let him walk too. ( Hope for a 2018 comp pick )

3 ) Use the 20 million in cap space for the best Edge Rusher and Defensive back not franchised in 2017 free agency! I think one good edge rusher, combined with Dupree, Heyward and maybe Chickillo is good enough.

4 ) Use the top three draft picks for DT/NT, RB, and either Saftey or Corner, depending on the player signed for 10M a season in free agency. In a four-man front, a disruptive DT or run stuffer is a major need.

5 ) Hope and pray that Dupree and Burns are the real deal.

Fiji Mariner said:
Would definitely be on board for a NT if we are to continue playing the 3-4

1) UGH-Hell no, he will be franchised or signed long term
2) OK So let JJ walk, no huge shoes to fill there but we probably bring in a bigger salary than he garners which will not get us a comp pick and LT has 10 accrued seasons so he will not get us a comp pick even if someone pays him large.
3) Free agency is not the answer, we will sign our own key free agents and a couple/few mid range free agents...hopefully at least a bit spent on an edge rusher as we will have nada there outside of Dupree returning from injury.
4) I'd draft a ball hawk safety and dump Mitchell, then go DL and TE in 2-3, since we ARE keeping Bell.
5) if they are not we have even more holes and troubles ahead
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1 ) Um hell Yes. Bell is not worth 12 million a year. I'm not sure if ANY running back is. He's not running the ball as well and is a document of the field and injury risk. For 12 million, we can get the best non-franchised player at ANY position. I'd say re-sign Bell for 6 million a year, no higher. Not saying he can't play, I'm saying his play has declined and the risk is not worth the reward.

2 ) JJ has been benched. Finally. Just two years late if I were calling the shots...He's a goner in free agency. I did admire his effort. He just is a zero as a pass rusher.

3 ) Free Agency can be the answer. It works when you spend money like we did for Kevin Green, James Farrior, or Clark. We have 20 million in cap space. Give me the best on franchised edge rusher and playmaking DB. Our defense would go from below average to above average the moment that happens.

4 ) We just spent a 2nd round pick on Davis, but he's not a ball hawking type, so I agree. I want a high pick on a safety in the 2017 draft.

5 ) I Think Burns will be good enough to start. Dupree, honestly he hit the rookie wall and got hurt. He might disappoint, but we really need him. This goes back to point #3, fix Edge and DB in free agency, then you can go into the draft with a more open mind. DT/NT would be a fine first round pick, and I think this is a good DT class.

And finally, I'll add a sixth point. If the team misses the playoffs, FIRE TOMLIN.
 
1)Everyone here complains about missed draft picks, when you hit on one like Bell (a top 3) back in the league you don't just show him the door with hopes of getting a 3rd round comp pick to waste on someone not nearly his talent. Bell is our best defender on the roster, without a run game we give up 30+ every game. I suspect we franchise him. And 10 million does not get the top DB anymore (see the type of contract Josh Normans of the league are getting). Bell will cost more than 6M, and top tier FAs more than 12. Guys were getting close to 20M/year last season and with an expanding cap the price goes up. Signing one of these might be impact players like that is how we buy a ticket straight back to cap hell.
2) yep been "benched" and will probably receive almost as many snaps as our other scrubs at OLB. This shows the glaring need on this D. As I believe Slash pointed out we should draft a high OLB rather than the TE I suggested. I made the TE suggestion only as I thought Green may be released and we have shown no ability to draft pass rushers as of late. If there is a can't miss edge rusher that should be priority 1 and then ball hawk FS and NT. If we dump Green I'd seriously look at a TE to improve what could be a high octane O.
3) you can occasionally hit on free agents, but we will not slot a guy coming in as a top paid player. We don't operate that way, usually only bad teams do. When we have hit on FAs in the past like Farrior they were upper mid range guys that need a change of scene. We just don't go with the break the bank hot commodity names. Would love to get the next Potsie though.
4) still too early to tell on Davis, may pan out and may not. He was having a good game until the horrid play. Definitely not too early to tell on Mitchell, he is vastly over paid next year (this year too) for the bone headedness he brings to the unit.

Wish we would dump Tomlin if we miss the playoffs/don't get a playoff victory...sadly the Rooneys are in love with him-UGH
 
you start this thread as a finger point at the defense.. and you then turn it into Hey,, I should be the GM and this is what I do to fix the whole team,, Lets throw in contracts and the coach narrative of getting rid of bell.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
you start this thread as a finger point at the defense.. and you then turn it into Hey,, I should be the GM and this is what I do to fix the whole team,, Lets throw in contracts and the coach narrative of getting rid of bell.
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Well isn't the coaching staff part of the reason for the Steelers defensive woes? Tomlin is supposed to be a defensive guy. We never ran his 4-3 " cover 2 " system as a base. Bulter can't carry LeBeua's jock strap. It took way too long to Bench Jones, and Chickillo who might lead the team in snaps should have had more snaps by now.

Free agency and cap management are needed to fix the defense, which is why I am not for spending 12-15 million a year on a running back. So you see its all connected.


Steeler Defensive stats as of this week.

YPG allowed 380.8 (25th)

YPC allowed 4.3 (T18)

PPG allowed 23.8 (18)

Sacks 13 (last)

INTs 4 (2nd from last)

Defensive touchdowns 0. Tied for last. 19 teams have one or more

Fumbles recovered 2 (3rd from last)

Total TOs 17 (last)
 
just start another thread,, you will anyway.. call it " coaches fix for the entire team" Then you wont have to make all these little dumb ones.
 
With what we currently have, we need a true NT (been calling for this since last year - the "sub package" excuse is complete BS and a totally useless scheme) that can and should play all 3 downs and a good pass rusher. Our secondary is young but has the tools and should only get better. Sprinkle in a little depth and we should be good in 2 years as some have mentioned, including Max Starks.

Just think about a front of Heyward, Tuitt and a good NT playing all 3 downs allowing a LB or 2 to roam free to rush the passer with some speed. Come on! At least one or 2 of the 3 will command double teams and will get some push into the backfield or every down. How the heck Butler and/or Tomlin refuse to see that is just crazy.
 
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The problem is there aren't any true NT that are 3 down players. The game has changed to make it a dinosaur position. A 2 gap NT like Hampton was a part of the scheme that not many other teams ran at that time. Even then Casey still came off on 3rd downs. Offenses today utilize spread formations with 3 Trips or bunch formations to widen the line and open passing lanes. So NT like Casey was are now obsolete in this age. A good Pass rush improves all cornerback play. More pressure from the front seven on passing downs is what's obviously missing, and gap responsibilities from the DL and LB are what is missing from this defense.


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Coach said:
This sums up the defense.

YPG allowed 380.8 (25th)

YPC allowed 4.3 (T18)

PPG allowed 23.8 (18)

Sacks 13 (last)

INTs 4 (2nd from last)

Defensive touchdowns 0. Tied for last. 19 teams have one or more

Fumbles recovered 2 (3rd from last)

Total TOs 17 (last)
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To be fair, considering the lack of talent, they are doing OK. It not like there were going to be in the top 5 so the fact they are not in the bottom 5 suggests they are playing at, or slightly above, the talent level.
 
Ike Kelly said:
The problem is there aren't any true NT that are 3 down players. The game has changed to make it a dinosaur position. A 2 gap NT like Hampton was a part of the scheme that not many other teams ran at that time. Even then Casey still came off on 3rd downs. Offenses today utilize spread formations with 3 Trips or bunch formations to widen the line and open passing lanes. So NT like Casey was are now obsolete in this age. A good Pass rush improves all cornerback play. More pressure from the front seven on passing downs is what's obviously missing, and gap responsibilities from the DL and LB are what is missing from this defense.


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Click to expand...

This is what the talking heads say but I just don't buy it. There are NT's coming out of college but the talking heads said not to draft them because of the "sub package" scheme making them obsolete. It's not because there aren't any out there. It just makes no sense to ever only have 2 D-linemen on the field. NEVER EVER!
 
A true NT also lowers the amount of double teams Heyward and Tuitt face on 1st and 2nd downs. These double teams gas the players and negate any ability to get pressure later in games when it is crunch time. A true NT, even if he only plays on 1st and 2nd downs also shores up the run D and allows Shazier to be more effective as a playmaker. Not only do we need a true NT, we also need a 3rd DE to add to the rotation because Heyward and Tuitt just play too many snaps if you are relying on the DL to add pressure at pivotal later situations in games. This D line is way thin as we are about to realize in the coming weeks.

I'd look at a Hargraves/ Shade tree / Tuitt line for 1st downs to stop run and add pressure and then deploy them on 3rd downs as well to get off the field.
 
Ike Kelly said:
The problem is there aren't any true NT that are 3 down players. The game has changed to make it a dinosaur position. A 2 gap NT like Hampton was a part of the scheme that not many other teams ran at that time. Even then Casey still came off on 3rd downs. Offenses today utilize spread formations with 3 Trips or bunch formations to widen the line and open passing lanes. So NT like Casey was are now obsolete in this age. A good Pass rush improves all cornerback play. More pressure from the front seven on passing downs is what's obviously missing, and gap responsibilities from the DL and LB are what is missing from this defense.


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Ike, who says it has to be an NT? The NFL has plenty of 1 or 3 technique guys that can either stuff the run and at least push the pocket Or ones that have quickness to shoot the gaps.

I'd take Hampton by the way, even if he's a 2 down type of player. Our DL is getting blown off the ball. I have seen way to many holes that a high school back could run through for 5+ yards.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/
 
When you say by talking heads, whom are you referring to? Coaches, active and those giving their opinions have elaborated this. Cowher, Johnson, Edwards, Tuna. Even Ditka has mentioned it is today's football, which he dislikes immensely. And I never said have 2 DL on 3rd down situations. Just that NT like Casey are being minimized because of the spread. Rather have 3 DE/DT with a pure pass rusher standing or with hands down. Believe me I would love to have another Casey, but offenses schemed to take him away with spread offenses. I remember the great D's we had and teams just sold out trying to run because how stout our 3 DL was. Then these 40 + pass attempts by opposing QB's opened up the copycat system by all the other teams with capable QBs. I recall that NE game with Brady throwing like 30 + consecutive plays to start the game. That started the movement minimizing bubble butt NTs. I don't think there are but 1 or 2 3/4 teams that even have a NT playing on 3rd down. Those that do, use a pass rushing DT instead.


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Coach said:
Ike, who says it has to be an NT? The NFL has plenty of 1 or 3 technique guys that can either stuff the run and at least push the pocket Or ones that have quickness to shoot the gaps.

I'd take Hampton by the way, even if he's a 2 down type of player. Our DL is getting blown off the ball. I have seen way to many holes that a high school back could run through for 5+ yards.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/defensive-line-techniques-the-prototypes/
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Coach, you are accurate in regards to plenty of 1 and 3 tech guys who can perform. But 1 and 3 tech players are traditionally in 4-3 scheme defensives. Pitt has used the 3-4 scheme (since Cowher started it) with 5 tech DE an 0 tech NT on the center or shading the center/guard gap. If you want a gap shooing 0 tech, who is taking the double team to allow the ILB to stay untouched? This is why the proliferation of package defense runs rampant and why the rules changed for offenses to have 12 in the huddle. To disallow mismatching due to substitution at the last minute.


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Actually Cincy late in 2001 was the first team to spread us out and throw all over the place, but NE used Wilford a ton on passing downs, that's where you want the pressure to come from, right up the middle, a guy like Hampton could get a good push, would like to see McCullers on passing downs push the center into the qb's face and then get your hands up.
 
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