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The Coronavirus thread

Supe is suggesting that meat plants WILL close down due to the economic shut down. I'm showing support for that claim.

Trog is confused and thinks Supe meant the Smithfield plant shut down DUE to the economic shut down. That one did because many contracted the virus.

Two different discussions going on LOL
Yes the back and forth was a little confusing.
I doubt we see meat plants shut down for economic reasons unless something drastic changes, they are an essential business and as someone mentioned, able to charge a better price for their product currently, due to demand, we have had meat in our Kroger but it certainly has not been on sale. With States and Trump moving towards reopening, not fast enough to make many happy and too fast for others, they should be ok if they get through the covid caused issues. I don't envy being a Governor or the President right now.
 
Israeli Professor Shows Virus Follows Fixed Pattern
https://townhall.com/columnists/mar...or-shows-virus-follows-fixed-pattern-n2566915

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel of Tel Aviv University, who also serves on the research and development advisory board for Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, plotted the rates of new coronavirus infections of the U.S., U.K., Sweden, Italy, Israel, Switzerland, France, Germany, and Spain. The numbers told a shocking story: irrespective of whether the country quarantined like Israel, or went about business as usual like Sweden, coronavirus peaked and subsided in the exact same way. In the exact, same, way. His graphs show that all countries experienced seemingly identical coronavirus infection patterns, with the number of infected peaking in the sixth week and rapidly subsiding by the eighth week.

“Is the coronavirus expansion exponential? The answer by the numbers is simple: no. Expansion begins exponentially but fades quickly after about eight weeks,” Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel concluded. The reason why coronavirus follows a fixed pattern is yet unknown. "I have no explanation,” he told Mako, “There are is kinds of speculation: maybe it's climate-related, maybe the virus has its own life cycle.”

But what about Italy and their staggering 12% mortality rate? “The health system in Italy has its own problems. It has nothing to do with coronavirus. In 2017 it also collapsed because of the flu,” Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel told the news agency. Indeed, Italy’s exceptionally high coronavirus mortality rate is eerily reminiscent of their unusually high flu mortality rates. Supportive of this theory, Germany, has low flu infection and mortality rates and similarly low coronavirus rates.

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel concludes in his analysis summary paper that the data from the past 50 days indicates that the closure policies of the quarantine countries can be replaced by more moderate social distancing policies. The numbers simply do not support quarantine or economic closure.

On the reasonableness of Israel’s unprecedented quarantine and closure, he commented to the news agency, “I think it's mass hysteria. I have no other way to describe it. 4,500 people die each year from the flu in Israel because of complications, so close the country because of that? No. I don't see a reason to do it because of a lower-risk epidemic.”

While the American policies remain less restrictive than those of Israel, it is important to understand the origins of our own “mass hysteria” response. President Trump urged a strong coronavirus response after consulting with Dr. Fauci and his team, who relied on a British model predicting 2.2 million deaths in the United States and 500,000 deaths in the U.K. But that model was developed by Professor Neil Ferguson, who had a history of wildly overestimating death rates through his prediction models. Professor Ferguson was not known for his reliability, and his 2001 disease model was criticized as “not fit for purpose” after it predicted that up to 150,000 people could die in the U.K. from mad cow disease (177 deaths to date). Ferguson’s U.K. coronavirus deaths prediction is now down to 20,000 people, 4% of the original prediction.

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel has mathematically shown us that coronavirus closures were a mistake. It's a tough reality. Americans lost their jobs and businesses went under because the United States, along with most first world nations, acted on the chilling predictions of a severely flawed model, a reading of Professor Ferguson’s tarot cards. Hindsight is 20/20, so we have to be realistic with our criticism. President Trump did not want 2.2 million Americans to die and did what he thought was necessary to save our lives, relying on a model his advisors told him was trustworthy. It's done. It happened. But it doesn't mean that he should continue the course.
 
Good luck figuring out using it. Our Company got theirs but it taking a special advisor and attorney to figure out to use it correctly to be forgivable. It doesn't help that our owner is still in the hospital on a vent and sedated from this thing.

My husband is a consultant who works from home and I work for him. We have no real costs of goods or rent or anything so ours was approved only for the cost of payroll and health insurance.

Wishing him a speedy recovery.
 
Amen. Time to open this **** up.

Jesse Watters on push to reopen the economy: 'You can feel this country getting angry'

Jesse Watters said Thursday on "The Five" that he could feel a growing backlash to the ongoing restrictions imposed in response to the coronavirus pandemic as the White House prepared to roll out its guidelines for reopening the economy.

"It's like when you go under water and you hold your breath, if you keep holding your breath, you're going to sustain brain damage or you're gonna drown," Watters said. "And you can tell this country is ready to stop holding its breath and get above water and get a gasp of air, because if you keep staying under water, you've already seen [Great] Depression-level economic jobs losses in just one month alone."

"This country is not going to make it to May 1st," Watters added. "And that's why you see some states are going to have to open in phases.

"You can feel this country getting angry ... They're getting angry at the governors. They're not allowed to go to church," Watters said. "You know, they they don't have freedom of association. They can't pursue happiness. This is getting pretty ugly and we can't take it anymore."

Co-host Katie Pavlich agreed, saying some people feel suffocated by the policies.

"When people feel continually that they're pushed in a corner and that they are continually told that they are not essential, when they're looking at their kids and they are not stocking their freezer full of $13-a-bin ice cream like Nancy Pelosi is in San Francisco and they're on an even tighter budget than maybe they were before," Pavlich said. "And they're worried about what the next two months are going to ... look like for their family, that feels really essential. And it feels just as suffocating and serious and threatening to them and to their livelihood as getting sick from the virus does."
 
Israeli Professor Shows Virus Follows Fixed Pattern
https://townhall.com/columnists/mar...or-shows-virus-follows-fixed-pattern-n2566915

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel of Tel Aviv University, who also serves on the research and development advisory board for Teva Pharmaceutical Industries, plotted the rates of new coronavirus infections of the U.S., U.K., Sweden, Italy, Israel, Switzerland, France, Germany, and Spain. The numbers told a shocking story: irrespective of whether the country quarantined like Israel, or went about business as usual like Sweden, coronavirus peaked and subsided in the exact same way. In the exact, same, way. His graphs show that all countries experienced seemingly identical coronavirus infection patterns, with the number of infected peaking in the sixth week and rapidly subsiding by the eighth week.

“Is the coronavirus expansion exponential? The answer by the numbers is simple: no. Expansion begins exponentially but fades quickly after about eight weeks,” Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel concluded. The reason why coronavirus follows a fixed pattern is yet unknown. "I have no explanation,” he told Mako, “There are is kinds of speculation: maybe it's climate-related, maybe the virus has its own life cycle.”

But what about Italy and their staggering 12% mortality rate? “The health system in Italy has its own problems. It has nothing to do with coronavirus. In 2017 it also collapsed because of the flu,” Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel told the news agency. Indeed, Italy’s exceptionally high coronavirus mortality rate is eerily reminiscent of their unusually high flu mortality rates. Supportive of this theory, Germany, has low flu infection and mortality rates and similarly low coronavirus rates.

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel concludes in his analysis summary paper that the data from the past 50 days indicates that the closure policies of the quarantine countries can be replaced by more moderate social distancing policies. The numbers simply do not support quarantine or economic closure.

On the reasonableness of Israel’s unprecedented quarantine and closure, he commented to the news agency, “I think it's mass hysteria. I have no other way to describe it. 4,500 people die each year from the flu in Israel because of complications, so close the country because of that? No. I don't see a reason to do it because of a lower-risk epidemic.”

While the American policies remain less restrictive than those of Israel, it is important to understand the origins of our own “mass hysteria” response. President Trump urged a strong coronavirus response after consulting with Dr. Fauci and his team, who relied on a British model predicting 2.2 million deaths in the United States and 500,000 deaths in the U.K. But that model was developed by Professor Neil Ferguson, who had a history of wildly overestimating death rates through his prediction models. Professor Ferguson was not known for his reliability, and his 2001 disease model was criticized as “not fit for purpose” after it predicted that up to 150,000 people could die in the U.K. from mad cow disease (177 deaths to date). Ferguson’s U.K. coronavirus deaths prediction is now down to 20,000 people, 4% of the original prediction.

Professor Yitzhak Ben Israel has mathematically shown us that coronavirus closures were a mistake. It's a tough reality. Americans lost their jobs and businesses went under because the United States, along with most first world nations, acted on the chilling predictions of a severely flawed model, a reading of Professor Ferguson’s tarot cards. Hindsight is 20/20, so we have to be realistic with our criticism. President Trump did not want 2.2 million Americans to die and did what he thought was necessary to save our lives, relying on a model his advisors told him was trustworthy. It's done. It happened. But it doesn't mean that he should continue the course.

You can interpret this in 2 ways one which fits your agenda that shutting things down does not help. The other would still have the virus follow the same pattern but with X times the number of people. For example the virus can follow the same curve, but say the peak of one curve is 1,000,000, but the peak of the other curve is 10,000. The curve could look identical, but one would be 10x the magnitude of the other. No one really has any idea how well social distancing is working. It is near impossible to study without knowing many factors we do not have. We dont even know how long it has been in the country. We dont know how many people dont show symptoms, dont know how many have mild symptoms, and we dont even know for sure how many people have had it. You can go by confirmed cases, but that is not very accurate. People can pretty much make the numbers support whatever they want at this point.
 
You can interpret this in 2 ways one which fits your agenda that shutting things down does not help. The other would still have the virus follow the same pattern but with X times the number of people. For example the virus can follow the same curve, but say the peak of one curve is 1,000,000, but the peak of the other curve is 10,000. The curve could look identical, but one would be 10x the magnitude of the other. No one really has any idea how well social distancing is working. It is near impossible to study without knowing many factors we do not have. We dont even know how long it has been in the country. We dont know how many people dont show symptoms, dont know how many have mild symptoms, and we dont even know for sure how many people have had it. You can go by confirmed cases, but that is not very accurate. People can pretty much make the numbers support whatever they want at this point.

That fits with what I said from the start of these measures, we very well may never know if they helped but we would damn sure know if they didn't.
 
You can interpret this in 2 ways one which fits your agenda that shutting things down does not help. The other would still have the virus follow the same pattern but with X times the number of people. For example the virus can follow the same curve, but say the peak of one curve is 1,000,000, but the peak of the other curve is 10,000. The curve could look identical, but one would be 10x the magnitude of the other. No one really has any idea how well social distancing is working. It is near impossible to study without knowing many factors we do not have. We dont even know how long it has been in the country. We dont know how many people dont show symptoms, dont know how many have mild symptoms, and we dont even know for sure how many people have had it. You can go by confirmed cases, but that is not very accurate. People can pretty much make the numbers support whatever they want at this point.

There is literally no evidence anywhere that suggests the peak of any one curve on any continent, in any one nation would have been one million.

What is unique about this virus is how the world reacted to it. The planet has been affected by viruses many times before. And countless humans were lost to them. Typhoid fever. The Spanish flu. Polio. AIDS/HIV. The measles. Small pox.

Dare I say though, never in history have we seen the world community decide it was smart to shutter the world. Almost, quite literally. For a virus.

Every other virus....mankind survived.

But this time, we determined it necessary to ignore herd immunity, make as us all weaker to said virus, and destroy world-wide economies and markets to combat it. Because hospital systems would be overwhelmed - which weren't. Because we would run out of ventilators - which we didn't, and which now are in question as to whether they even are the right solution.

The question is why, when we as a global community have faced worse viruses....did we do THIS?

It was unnecessary and millions will die globally as a result of what we have done.

The approach was stupid. Measured responses would have been more responsible.

Prove me wrong. And I'm willing to wait on the data and will stand by the position.
 
I'll repeat these facts again, because some among us believe we will just bounce back. The cure is going to be devastating.

We must count the deaths from shutdowns as well as from coronavirus

Since the coronavirus shutdown began, nearly 17 million Americans have lost their jobs. That’s one-tenth of the nation’s workforce. It’s a public-health disaster. If the shutdown drags on, as many public-health experts recommend it should, it is almost certain to kill more Americans than the virus.

The academics and public-health officials who have concocted models of the virus’s spread are telling us that we have to continue the shutdown to save thousands of lives. It’s too bad none of their models considers the deaths that will be caused by unemployment.

Before the virus hit, America’s unemployment rate was 3.5 percent, the lowest in 50 years. Now Goldman Sachs predicts unemployment could spike to 15 percent by midyear. A St. Louis Federal Reserve economist grimly predicts 32 percent unemployment — worse than during the Great Depression.

Job losses cause extreme suffering. Every 1 percent hike in the unemployment rate will likely produce a 3.3 percent increase in drug-overdose deaths and a 0.99 percent increase in suicides, according to data from the National Bureau of Economic Research and the medical journal Lancet.

These are facts based on past experience, not models. If unemployment hits 32 percent, some 77,000 Americans are likely to die from suicide and drug overdoses as a result of layoffs. Deaths of despair.

Then add the predictable deaths from alcohol abuse caused by *unemployment. Health economist Michael French from the University of Miami found a “significant association between job loss” and binge drinking and alcoholism.

The impact of layoffs goes *beyond suicide, drug overdosing and drinking, however. Overall, the death rate for an unemployed person is 63 percent higher than for someone with a job, according to findings in the journal Social Science & Medicine.

Now do the math: Layoff-related deaths could far outnumber the 60,400 coronavirus deaths predicted by University of Washington researchers. This comparison isn’t meant to understate the horror of the coronavirus for those who get it and their families.


But heavy-handed state edicts to close all “nonessential businesses” need to be reassessed in light of the predictable harm to the lives, livelihoods and health of the uninfected.

The shutdown was originally explained as a way to “flatten the curve,” allowing time to expand health-care capacity, so lives wouldn’t be needlessly lost in overwhelmed hospitals.

When the shutdown is lifted, cases will increase. Some epidemiologists predict the virus could return in a second wave this fall. But as President Trump reported Friday, hospitals are ready now, supplied with ventilators, caregivers and beds. Some cities are now oversupplied. Even New York state, with half the cases in the *nation, reports enough beds. Temporary bed capacity provided by the military is empty (though some local hospitals have complained of red tape preventing patients from being sent there).

The president’s social-distancing guidelines expire April 30, suggesting the possibility of restarting parts of the economy shortly thereafter.

To make reopening possible, schools should resume in most places, so working parents can *return to jobs. Even in the Empire State, only a single child under the age of 10 has died. That’s tragic, but very unusual. Some 84 percent of fatalities in New York are people over 60. We have a duty to preserve human life, but we’re called to allocate our efforts reasonably, show concern for all lives.

On Monday, governors in several states heavily hit by the coronavirus announced they would work together regionally on plans to phase out the shutdown. On Tuesday, Trump announced a council assembled to formulate plans for reopening the nation for business.

It won’t be done by a flick of the switch. Getting back to business will hinge on testing, accommodations employers make for workers’ safety and the willingness of consumers to patronize restaurants, gyms and other businesses again.

The president’s public-health advisers want the virus to“determine the timetable.” But Trump should also take into account the concerns of the silent majority suffering from the shutdown. It’s more than just their jobs on the line. Their lives are, too.
 
Where the hell did Dr. Fraudchi come from? That guy has crushed this country. Every time that ******* shows up on a news show or a press conference, I expect him to pull a jar of leeches out of a black medicine bag and tell America he's found the cure to COVID-19. I wish that schmuck would go back to the Swamp with his little leech friends.
 
Where the hell did Dr. Fraudchi come from? That guy has crushed this country. Every time that ******* shows up on a news show or a press conference, I expect him to pull a jar of leeches out of a black medicine bag and tell America he's found the cure to COVID-19. I wish that schmuck would go back to the Swamp with his little leech friends.

Go back and look at his predictions for AIDS/HIV deaths back in the day...astonishing that his estimates were about as far off as his Covid-19 predictions. He talks in brash generalities, and talks behind people’s backs in every interview he does.
 
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Where the hell did Dr. Fraudchi come from? That guy has crushed this country. Every time that ******* shows up on a news show or a press conference, I expect him to pull a jar of leeches out of a black medicine bag and tell America he's found the cure to COVID-19. I wish that schmuck would go back to the Swamp with his little leech friends.

One of those long time swamp rats you only hear about during times like these.
 
Good article outlining what a joke the "science" around this coronavirus response has been. https://amgreatness.com/2020/04/16/the-tyranny-of-scientism-and-the-subversion-of-science/

Here is the conclusion -
This crisis is achieving their goals quicker than they could have ever dreamed. Many climate propagandists are using the same shaming techniques that they’ve wielded against climate skeptics. “Nonetheless, conservative pundits, who are not trained as climate scientists, have repurposed the coronavirus modeling to attack climate projections in recent days (You bet your ***!),” a columnist for Science magazine sneered this week amid legitimate criticism of the bogus model that drove the extended shutdown. The underlying message? If you’re not a climate scientist or a virologist or epidemiologist, shut your mouth while your small business burns and your freedoms are trampled.

Let’s not pretend any of this is guided by “science.” It’s tyranny disguised as the common good to rationalize authoritarian tactics employed by politicians like Phil Murphy and his like minded colleagues. And too many Americans are falling for it, no questions asked.
 
The shut down also changed packaging requirements, DIRECTLY. "With restaurants closed, distributors are struggling to retool their product from bulk supply for restaurants and industrial-scale operations to smaller, consumer-focused packaging as Americans cook from home."

Now the meat and food suppliers have to re-tool their machinery to re-package family size portions as massive boxes of food are no longer in demand.

I can't speak for everywhere or other plants, but House of Raeford Farms here in NC is selling the chicken they normally sold to restaurants in bulk to the general public. They are 40lb cases and you can choose from breasts, legs, wings, etc. each a different price point, but priced really low. I do believe the boneless breasts case is going for $45. Every couple of days they set up in a different area with their trucks and start (or supposed to) at 9am. You have to go there to purchase, but you stay in your car and they load it up for you. It's cash only. They have had a ridiculous amount of people show up at every location with people showing up as early as 4am to make sure they are first in line.

Me, I have had no issue finding chicken, and my husband is going up to Louisburg today to pick up a half case of quartered up chicken from Moss's who does their own processing. We do this normally as we have a deep freezer and keep plenty of meat on hand anyways.
 
I have a question for all of the "Democratic" Socialist supporters...supposedly the whole benefit to socialism that they keep touting is that "everyone pays so that everyone benefits", essentially meaning that the greater good of the country is more important than individual wealth or success. These same people are the ones screaming that Trumps plan to reopen the country is equivalent to murder and that he should be impeached (imagine that). Well if your Utopian society places the greater good on the society as a whole over the individual, do you not realize that your rantings about how our economy is not more important that a human life is hypocritical at best and sheer and utter lunacy at worst? If you truly believe that the society is more important than the individual than wouldn't you support the loss of a million lives if it meant the survival and betterment of 359 million lives?
 
Tim sometimes it almost seems like you are cheering for an economic disaster. As you posted but failed to focus on States like Ohio are working to get back open. You are underestimating the will and ingenuity of the American people. We will get through this. We will adapt and make this work as long as they truly are working to get us open. Despite your belief otherwise there is still some inherent danger in this and we must do it right and we are at least in some States. You will see a renewed spirit of cooperation between companies and workers. You will see people going out of their way to patronize businesses they once took fro granted, at least for awhile. Yes there will be some economic casualties that we will be dealing with for awhile but have some faith in humanity to rise to the challenge. We are far less damaged than we were in previous downturns at this point. Yes I agree with you if this goes to long you would be right but it is starting to head towards a partial resolution. We will rise up we will lick the wounds inflicted, hopefully work to prevent the shortcomings we ran across and learn some long term lesson about manufacturing.

The very anger and simmering you feel out there is what gives me the hope we will rise and overcome these challenges. And in the long run be stronger for it.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
I can't speak for everywhere or other plants, but House of Raeford Farms here in NC is selling the chicken they normally sold to restaurants in bulk to the general public. They are 40lb cases and you can choose from breasts, legs, wings, etc. each a different price point, but priced really low. I do believe the boneless breasts case is going for $45. Every couple of days they set up in a different area with their trucks and start (or supposed to) at 9am. You have to go there to purchase, but you stay in your car and they load it up for you. It's cash only. They have had a ridiculous amount of people show up at every location with people showing up as early as 4am to make sure they are first in line.

Me, I have had no issue finding chicken, and my husband is going up to Louisburg today to pick up a half case of quartered up chicken from Moss's who does their own processing. We do this normally as we have a deep freezer and keep plenty of meat on hand anyways.

Those weren't my "beliefs", regarding meat packing places no longer selling in bulk to restaurants and having to repackage foods for individual families. Those quotes and data points come from the WSJ and Beef industry magazines. They weren't claims, they were reported as facts.

I'm pretty sure that House of Raeford Farms isn't selling the same amount of chicken to restaurants. Most restaurants are closed. Unless the bulk of their business, like their biggest contract is with Chick-Fil-A or similar.

As of March 31, there was a $25Billion loss in the restaurant industry.

I grew up in the country and am jealous that you can go to a place like that and get processed meat.

I have four freezers and try to keep them full and it's a challenge without places like that.
 
Those weren't my "beliefs", regarding meat packing places no longer selling in bulk to restaurants and having to repackage foods for individual families. Those quotes and data points come from the WSJ and Beef industry magazines. They weren't claims, they were reported as facts.

I'm pretty sure that House of Raeford Farms isn't selling the same amount of chicken to restaurants. Most restaurants are closed. Unless the bulk of their business, like their biggest contract is with Chick-Fil-A or similar.

As of March 31, there was a $25Billion loss in the restaurant industry.

I grew up in the country and am jealous that you can go to a place like that and get processed meat.

I have four freezers and try to keep them full and it's a challenge without places like that.

I wish I had the cash to buy a side of beef or two every year. Even before this beef prices have been crazy. I have the kind of luck though I would go on vacation and come back to a dead freezer and rotten meat.
 
Those weren't my "beliefs", regarding meat packing places no longer selling in bulk to restaurants and having to repackage foods for individual families. Those quotes and data points come from the WSJ and Beef industry magazines. They weren't claims, they were reported as facts.

I'm pretty sure that House of Raeford Farms isn't selling the same amount of chicken to restaurants. Most restaurants are closed. Unless the bulk of their business, like their biggest contract is with Chick-Fil-A or similar.

As of March 31, there was a $25Billion loss in the restaurant industry.

I grew up in the country and am jealous that you can go to a place like that and get processed meat.

I have four freezers and try to keep them full and it's a challenge without places like that.

House of Raeford is selling out of their bulk chicken at these places fairly quickly. They said that it was more costly to retool these packaging areas to ship to stores for individual consumers than just continuing with their current process and offering the sale to the general public. Pretty good idea on their part actually.

I am in a good area where I am not too far from Raleigh and not too far from the "country" areas. There are local farms within a few miles of me, like Ninja Cow Farms, that have way better choices in beef than you can get from any supermarket. They are a little bit more, but it really isn't that expensive. If I get desperate for beef there is a cattle ranch right behind my neighborhood that raises black angus. They get loose in our neighborhood all the time....heh.

Oh, and just on a side note........**** Smithfield products. They are owned by China and I get my pork from local processors that is way better than their crap.
 
House of Raeford is selling out of their bulk chicken at these places fairly quickly. They said that it was more costly to retool these packaging areas to ship to stores for individual consumers than just continuing with their current process and offering the sale to the general public. Pretty good idea on their part actually.

I am in a good area where I am not too far from Raleigh and not too far from the "country" areas. There are local farms within a few miles of me, like Ninja Cow Farms, that have way better choices in beef than you can get from any supermarket. They are a little bit more, but it really isn't that expensive. If I get desperate for beef there is a cattle ranch right behind my neighborhood that raises black angus. They get loose in our neighborhood all the time....heh.

Oh, and just on a side note........**** Smithfield products. They are owned by China and I get my pork from local processors that is way better than their crap.

I wonder if the US owns any piece of the critical food supply chain in China?
 
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