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The Coronavirus thread

Where do the 50,000+ homeless stay?

https://www.breitbart.com/health/2020/03/19/california-governor-issues-stay-at-home-order-for-residents/

California Governor Issues ‘Stay at Home’ Order for Residents

California Gov. Gavin Newsom issued a statewide order for all of the state’s residents to “stay at home” during the coronavirus pandemic.

“We need to bend the curve in the state of California,” Newsom said in an announcement. “There’s a social contract here. People I think recognize the need to do more. They will adjust and adapt as they have.”
 
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Seriously, 'order' is the wrong word.

He can ask, but he can't order. The Constitution ensures it, and the 2nd Amendment provides the means to enforce the Constitution. Imagine if we let these ***** take our guns?

And this isn't about taking the virus seriously. He can ask, and hopefully enough will abide to effectively eradicate the virus, but can't 'order' that kind of ****.... ALCU should be by in a minute to clarify the word 'order'.
 
This is from a cousin of mine who is pretty down to earth. Her mother is a retired hospital Admin and nurse with lots of contacts. IF big IF this is true it would explain the response.


Shared from a surgeon friend of mine:

I am a surgeon and critical care physician. I rarely post—and almost never post about medical related issues. This is different. I would STRONGLY recommend everyone take 5 minutes and read this. Don’t panic, but please be smart and follow the guidelines.

“We can now read the report on COVID-19 that so terrified every public health manager and head of state from Boris Johnson to Donald Trump to the dictator of El Salvador that they ordered people to stay in their houses. I read it yesterday afternoon and haven't been the same since. I urge everyone to read it, but maybe have a drink first, or have your family around you. It is absolutely terrifying. The New York TImes confirms that the CDC and global leaders are treating it as factual.

Here's a brief rundown of what I'm seeing in here. Please correct me in comments if I'm wrong.

The COVID-19 response team at Imperial College in London obtained what appears to be the first accurate dataset of infection and death rates from China, Korea, and Italy. They plugged those numbers into widely available epidemic modeling software and ran a simulation: what would happen if the United States did absolutely nothing -- if we treated COVID-19 like the flu, went about business as usual, and let the virus take its course?

Here's what would happen: 80% of Americans would get the disease. 0.9% of them would die. Between 4 and 8 percent of all Americans over the age of 70 would die. 2.2 million Americans would die from the virus itself.

It gets worse. Most people who are in danger of dying from COVID-19 need to be put on ventilators. 50% of those put on ventilators still die, but the other 50% live. But in an unmitigated epidemic, the need for ventilators would be 30 times the number of ventilators in the United States. Virtually no one who needed a ventilator would get one. 100% of patients who need ventilators would die if they didn't get one. So the actual death toll from the virus would be closer to 4 million Americans -- in a span of 3 months. 8-15% of all Americans over 70 would die.

How many people is 4 million Americans? It's more Americans than have died all at once from anything, ever. It's the population of Los Angeles. It's four times the number of Americans who died in the Civil War...on both sides combined. It's two-thirds as many people as died in the Holocaust.

Americans make up 4.4% of the world's population. So if we simply extrapolate these numbers to the rest of the world -- now we're getting into really fuzzy estimates, so the margin of error is pretty great here -- this gives us 90 million deaths globally from COVID-19. That's 15 Holocausts. That's 1.5 times as many people as died in World War II, over 12 years. This would take 3-6 months.

Now, it's unrealistic to assume that countries wouldn't do ANYTHING to fight the virus once people started dying. So the Imperial College team ran the numbers again, this time assuming a "mitigation" strategy. A mitigation strategy is pretty much what common sense would tell us to do: America places all symptomatic cases of the disease in isolation. It quarantines their families for 14 days. It orders all Americans over 70 to practice social distancing. This is what you've seen a lot of people talking about when they say we should "flatten the curve": try to slow the spread of the disease to the people most likely to die from it, to avoid overwhelming hospitals.

And it does flatten the curve -- but not nearly enough. The death rate from the disease is cut in half, but it still kills 1.1 million Americans all by itself. The peak need for ventilators falls by two-thirds, but it still exceeds the number of ventilators in the US by eight times, meaning most people who need ventilators still don't get them. That leaves the actual death toll in the US at right around 2 million deaths. The population of Houston. Two civil wars. One-third of the Holocaust. Globally, 45 million people die: 7.5 Holocausts, 3/4 of World War II. That's what happens if we use common sense: the worst death toll from a single cause since the Middle Ages.

Finally, the Imperial College team ran the numbers a third time, this time assuming a "suppression" strategy. In addition to isolating symptomatic cases and quarantining their family members, they also simulated social distancing for the entire population. All public gatherings and most workplaces shut down. Schools and universities close. (Note that these simulations assumed a realistic rate of adherence to these requirements, around 70-75% adherence, not that everyone follows them perfectly.) This is basically what we are seeing happen in the United States today.

This time it works! The death rate in the US peaks three weeks from now at a few thousand deaths, then goes down. We hit, but don't exceed (at least not by very much), the number of available ventilators. The nightmarish death tolls from the rest of the study disappear; COVID-19 goes down in the books as a bad flu instead of the Black Death.

But here's the catch: if we EVER relax these requirements before a vaccine is administered to the entire population, COVID-19 comes right back and kills millions of Americans in a few months, the same as before. The simulation does indicate that, after the first suppression period (lasting from now until July), we could probably lift restrictions for a month, followed by two more months of suppression, in a repeating pattern without triggering an outbreak or overwhelming the ventilator supply. If we staggered these suppression breaks based on local conditions, we might be able to do a bit better. But we simply cannot ever allow the virus to spread throughout the entire population in the way other viruses do, because it is just too deadly. If lots of people we know end up getting COVID-19, it means millions of Americans are dying. It simply can't be allowed to happen.

How quickly will a vaccine be here? Already, medical ethics have been pushed to the limit to deliver one. COVID-19 was first discovered a few months ago. Last week, three separate research teams announced they had developed vaccines. Yesterday, one of them (with FDA approval) injected its vaccine into a live person, without waiting for animal testing. Now, though, they have to monitor the test subject for fourteen months to make sure the vaccine is safe. This is the part of the testing that can't be rushed: the plan is to inoculate the entire human population, so if the vaccine itself turned out to be lethal for some reason, it could potentially kill all humans, which is a lot worse than 90 million deaths. Assuming the vaccine is safe and effective, it will still take several months to produce enough to inoculate the global population. For this reason, the Imperial College team estimated it will be about 18 months until the vaccine is available.

During those 18 months, things are going to be very difficult and very scary. Our economy and our society will be disrupted in profound ways. Worst of all, if the suppression policies actually work, it will feel like we are doing all this for nothing, because the infection and death rates will be very low. It's easy to get people to come together in common sacrifice in the middle of a war. It's very hard to get them to do so in a pandemic that looks invisible precisely because suppression methods are working. But that's exactly what we're going to have to do.”


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app




If this is true and judging by how the country is acting. California just told everyone to stay home just to.top today. I'm thinking some serious crime and looting is about to go down. We are absolutely ******. It's a no win situation unless we get a cure/vaccine soon.

I hope the hell they're all wrong.
 
Positives that will come from this:
3. People will get a sample of socialism... the 1000 check per person and completely unnecessary bailouts are going to cost us a trillion or two... unsustainable and illogical... plus all the supply shortages weren’t pleasant

We're already getting a sample of socialism in Australia:

Supermarkets are restricting number of items you can purchase in all product categories except fresh food and you have to ask for toilet paper at the checkout i.e. we have rationing (even if it is corporate rather than government rationing);

Government encouraging family and friends to dob in people who break isolation - whilst it sounds community minded, its also how communist nations controlled people;

Government threatening hoarders who are profiteering from supermarket "shortages" with the Australian Federal Police - again sounds good in theory, but last time I looked we don't have any laws preventing people from buying goods from supermarkets and reselling at a profit (other than certain items, such as medication, which require a licence) - in fact buying goods and services from others to resell at a profit is the foundation of business.
 
No. I'm saying when you offer mathematical analyses or point to countries as evidence of what is going on, don't omit South Korea. Include them. Otherwise your arguments are tainted.

Also, include Germany. Anyone looked at their stats? From Supe's link:

...the most interesting data point I have seen is from Germany. Somehow Germany has 11,973 infections and only 28 deaths. That’s a death rate for infected patients of .23%. What are they doing better than everyone else? Because that rate of death is very similar to the flu.....

It's too early to draw any conclusions from the German death rate as the vast majority of their confirmed cases are still in the early stages. They currently have only 115 recovered, so well over 90% of those diagnosed still have Covid-19, although with only 2 serious/critical cases hopefully they are in good shape (but again possibly too early for the virus to be putting people in hospital).

Death rates are distorted by the fact that they are being compared to everyone officially diagnosed, many of whom are still in the very early stages, and who is being tested - for instance in Australia the only people who show symptoms who are being tested are those who have come in contact with a known carrier, so how many have coronavirus who come through it and aren't being tested, and therefore aren't showing up as a survivor.
 
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We're already getting a sample of socialism in Australia:

Supermarkets are restricting number of items you can purchase in all product categories except fresh food and you have to ask for toilet paper at the checkout i.e. we have rationing (even if it is corporate rather than government rationing);

Government encouraging family and friends to dob in people who break isolation - whilst it sounds community minded, its also how communist nations controlled people;

Government threatening hoarders who are profiteering from supermarket "shortages" with the Australian Federal Police - again sounds good in theory, but last time I looked we don't have any laws preventing people from buying goods from supermarkets and reselling at a profit (other than certain items, such as medication, which require a licence) - in fact buying goods and services from others to resell at a profit is the foundation of business.

Isn’t Australia where England sent their dregs of humanity? You a descendant?
 
What does Newsom do about healthcare workers that need to travel to and from work? Do they have to place a special symbol on their vehicles so they aren't stopped by the National Guard? I know, why not a Star of David?

In California we get to see just what the ACLU has become. Are they still the organization that protects civil liberties? Or have they become just a militant wing of the DNC?
 
Is it a coincidence that a bunch of Dim Senators dumped millions $$ in stocks right before this virus outbreak? I don't think so...
 
I think this is the case. Wholesalers try to steer the sale of certain manufacturers by keeping their price low, while raises other generic brands well beyond the point of profitability (at least until they clear their inventory of the brand they want to sell first). Highly unlikely someone swooped in and bought ALL the stock, even the stock that was priced 300x higher than the lowest priced brands. All brands, from all distributors, large and small, gone. Overnight.


This has got CIA written all over it. (j/k, j/k)

I'm sure you're correct, if all the WTF expensive stuff disappeared at the same time, the Feds did it.
 
Is it a coincidence that a bunch of Dim Senators dumped millions $$ in stocks right before this virus outbreak? I don't think so...

Wasn't just dem senators. Richard Burr reportedly dumped over 1 million in stocks prior to the drops.
 
What does Newsom do about healthcare workers that need to travel to and from work? Do they have to place a special symbol on their vehicles so they aren't stopped by the National Guard? I know, why not a Star of David?

In California we get to see just what the ACLU has become. Are they still the organization that protects civil liberties? Or have they become just a militant wing of the DNC?

My daughter is an ICU nurse and was told to have an overnight bag in her car.
 
Trump eyes grounding jets, halting stock trading, and ordering shelter in place

The Trump administration, moving quickly to halt the spread of the coronavirus, is seriously considering grounding all passenger air traffic for up to 30 days, temporarily halting stock trading on Wall Street, and imposing a shelter-in-place rule, according to officials.

Key officials have begun alerting industry leaders, Capitol Hill, and agencies that the “radical” plan could come early next week if the warlike efforts to stop the spread of the virus fail.

On Thursday, the administration began to prepare the nation for 9/11-style moves when the State Department issued a “Level Four” warning against traveling overseas. The warning is the most severe that the department has.

In a notice, the State Department said Americans traveling abroad may find their travel “severely disrupted” and “may be forced to remain outside of the United States for an indefinite time frame.”

Secrets was told that European nations are also considering grounding passenger jets.

What’s more, so that stocks don’t tank further, the administration under the plan being discussed would stop trading on Wall Street when it grounds the U.S. passenger fleet. The Bush administration made similar moves after the 9/11 attacks.

Sources also said that the administration is seriously considering a shelter-in-place rule to keep the public from large gatherings. Some have continued to ignore previous warnings against gathering in groups of 10.

The three radical moves could come as soon as next week, depending on how much the coronavirus spreads. There are some internal government models that show that the number of people infected in the coming two months could reach over 5 million.

The potential for blocking air travel is an indicator of fears that the virus could get out of control and, as in Italy, lead to a high death rate, said one source aware of the briefings for industry officials.

Trump has repeatedly said that his goal is to limit deaths, and aides have said he will do anything to make good on that promise.

The moves were described as very seriously being discussed and not imminent.

However, we were also told that decisions are moving fast at the top levels of the administration.

Grounding passenger jets for anymore than a few days would be unprecedented. After 9/11, they were grounded for just a few days.

Wall Street was closed for over a week after 9/11, but it was also covered in debris from the collapsed World Trade Center.

San Francisco has already ordered a shelter-in-place plan that directs people to stay home as much as possible.
 
so where are people in San Francisco to **** if they don't have toilet paper? in the street?


oh.
 
At least on that PA list, steel and chemical manufacturing are deemed essential businesses. As is shipping / trucking. Yay for me.
 
n8ooldnbknn41.jpg
 
It's too early to draw any conclusions from the German death rate as the vast majority of their confirmed cases are still in the early stages. They currently have only 115 recovered, so well over 90% of those diagnosed still have Covid-19, although with only 2 serious/critical cases hopefully they are in good shape (but again possibly too early for the virus to be putting people in hospital).

Death rates are distorted by the fact that they are being compared to everyone officially diagnosed, many of whom are still in the very early stages, and who is being tested - for instance in Australia the only people who show symptoms who are being tested are those who have come in contact with a known carrier, so how many have coronavirus who come through it and aren't being tested, and therefore aren't showing up as a survivor.

I've been trying to tell people about baking soda-water and the Spanish Flu Pandemic: Germans drink tons of mineral water and seltzer. As they say, "cheap insurance."

My theory is that this is the real reason for the outlier numbers.
 
This is from a cousin of mine who is pretty down to earth. Her mother is a retired hospital Admin and nurse with lots of contacts. IF big IF this is true it would explain the response.


Shared from a surgeon friend of mine:

I am a surgeon and critical care physician. I rarely post—and almost never post about medical related issues. This is different. I would STRONGLY recommend everyone take 5 minutes and read this. Don’t panic, but please be smart and follow the guidelines.

“We can now read the report on COVID-19 that so terrified every public health manager and head of state from Boris Johnson to Donald Trump to the dictator of El Salvador that they ordered people to stay in their houses. I read it yesterday afternoon and haven't been the same since. I urge everyone to read it, but maybe have a drink first, or have your family around you. It is absolutely terrifying. The New York TImes confirms that the CDC and global leaders are treating it as factual.

Here's a brief rundown of what I'm seeing in here. Please correct me in comments if I'm wrong.

The COVID-19 response team at Imperial College in London obtained what appears to be the first accurate dataset of infection and death rates from China, Korea, and Italy. They plugged those numbers into widely available epidemic modeling software and ran a simulation: what would happen if the United States did absolutely nothing -- if we treated COVID-19 like the flu, went about business as usual, and let the virus take its course?

Here's what would happen: 80% of Americans would get the disease. 0.9% of them would die. Between 4 and 8 percent of all Americans over the age of 70 would die. 2.2 million Americans would die from the virus itself.

It gets worse. Most people who are in danger of dying from COVID-19 need to be put on ventilators. 50% of those put on ventilators still die, but the other 50% live. But in an unmitigated epidemic, the need for ventilators would be 30 times the number of ventilators in the United States. Virtually no one who needed a ventilator would get one. 100% of patients who need ventilators would die if they didn't get one. So the actual death toll from the virus would be closer to 4 million Americans -- in a span of 3 months. 8-15% of all Americans over 70 would die.

How many people is 4 million Americans? It's more Americans than have died all at once from anything, ever. It's the population of Los Angeles. It's four times the number of Americans who died in the Civil War...on both sides combined. It's two-thirds as many people as died in the Holocaust.

Americans make up 4.4% of the world's population. So if we simply extrapolate these numbers to the rest of the world -- now we're getting into really fuzzy estimates, so the margin of error is pretty great here -- this gives us 90 million deaths globally from COVID-19. That's 15 Holocausts. That's 1.5 times as many people as died in World War II, over 12 years. This would take 3-6 months.

Now, it's unrealistic to assume that countries wouldn't do ANYTHING to fight the virus once people started dying. So the Imperial College team ran the numbers again, this time assuming a "mitigation" strategy. A mitigation strategy is pretty much what common sense would tell us to do: America places all symptomatic cases of the disease in isolation. It quarantines their families for 14 days. It orders all Americans over 70 to practice social distancing. This is what you've seen a lot of people talking about when they say we should "flatten the curve": try to slow the spread of the disease to the people most likely to die from it, to avoid overwhelming hospitals.

And it does flatten the curve -- but not nearly enough. The death rate from the disease is cut in half, but it still kills 1.1 million Americans all by itself. The peak need for ventilators falls by two-thirds, but it still exceeds the number of ventilators in the US by eight times, meaning most people who need ventilators still don't get them. That leaves the actual death toll in the US at right around 2 million deaths. The population of Houston. Two civil wars. One-third of the Holocaust. Globally, 45 million people die: 7.5 Holocausts, 3/4 of World War II. That's what happens if we use common sense: the worst death toll from a single cause since the Middle Ages.

Finally, the Imperial College team ran the numbers a third time, this time assuming a "suppression" strategy. In addition to isolating symptomatic cases and quarantining their family members, they also simulated social distancing for the entire population. All public gatherings and most workplaces shut down. Schools and universities close. (Note that these simulations assumed a realistic rate of adherence to these requirements, around 70-75% adherence, not that everyone follows them perfectly.) This is basically what we are seeing happen in the United States today.

This time it works! The death rate in the US peaks three weeks from now at a few thousand deaths, then goes down. We hit, but don't exceed (at least not by very much), the number of available ventilators. The nightmarish death tolls from the rest of the study disappear; COVID-19 goes down in the books as a bad flu instead of the Black Death.

But here's the catch: if we EVER relax these requirements before a vaccine is administered to the entire population, COVID-19 comes right back and kills millions of Americans in a few months, the same as before. The simulation does indicate that, after the first suppression period (lasting from now until July), we could probably lift restrictions for a month, followed by two more months of suppression, in a repeating pattern without triggering an outbreak or overwhelming the ventilator supply. If we staggered these suppression breaks based on local conditions, we might be able to do a bit better. But we simply cannot ever allow the virus to spread throughout the entire population in the way other viruses do, because it is just too deadly. If lots of people we know end up getting COVID-19, it means millions of Americans are dying. It simply can't be allowed to happen.

How quickly will a vaccine be here? Already, medical ethics have been pushed to the limit to deliver one. COVID-19 was first discovered a few months ago. Last week, three separate research teams announced they had developed vaccines. Yesterday, one of them (with FDA approval) injected its vaccine into a live person, without waiting for animal testing. Now, though, they have to monitor the test subject for fourteen months to make sure the vaccine is safe. This is the part of the testing that can't be rushed: the plan is to inoculate the entire human population, so if the vaccine itself turned out to be lethal for some reason, it could potentially kill all humans, which is a lot worse than 90 million deaths. Assuming the vaccine is safe and effective, it will still take several months to produce enough to inoculate the global population. For this reason, the Imperial College team estimated it will be about 18 months until the vaccine is available.

During those 18 months, things are going to be very difficult and very scary. Our economy and our society will be disrupted in profound ways. Worst of all, if the suppression policies actually work, it will feel like we are doing all this for nothing, because the infection and death rates will be very low. It's easy to get people to come together in common sacrifice in the middle of a war. It's very hard to get them to do so in a pandemic that looks invisible precisely because suppression methods are working. But that's exactly what we're going to have to do.”


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

So, basically we're talking universal, forced vaccines for everyone to participate in "society."

The rest is just a battering ram at the end of the day.

"Don't the believe the church and state, and everything they tell you" times are here.


At this point, America parallels ancient Israel in the Book of Nehemiah:

"Now therefore, our God, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God, who keepest covenant and mercy, let not all the trouble seem little before thee, that hath come upon us, on our kings, on our princes, and on our priests, and on our prophets, and on our fathers, and on all thy people, since the time of the kings of Assyria unto this day.

33 Howbeit thou art just in all that is brought upon us; for thou hast done right, but we have done wickedly:

34 Neither have our kings, our princes, our priests, nor our fathers, kept thy law, nor hearkened unto thy commandments and thy testimonies, wherewith thou didst testify against them.

35 For they have not served thee in their kingdom, and in thy great goodness that thou gavest them, and in the large and fat land which thou gavest before them, neither turned they from their wicked works.

36 Behold, we are servants this day, and for the land that thou gavest unto our fathers to eat the fruit thereof and the good thereof, behold, we are servants in it:

37 And it yieldeth much increase unto the kings whom thou hast set over us because of our sins: also they have dominion over our bodies, and over our cattle, at their pleasure, and we are in great distress."
 
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So let me say this... no bailouts for non essential companies... casinos, liquor distillers, tourist traps... uhuh... sorry, wave taxes and offer 0% loans for a few years, fine... but no taxpayer dollars for that nonsense...

Unless said business was forced to close by a government mandate. In THAT case the business would have lost revenue, perhaps laid people off and possibly even lost their business due to a government edict based on a media-fed panic. In THAT case, they should get whatever they want. The government serves us, it doesn't put us out of business on a whim.
 
I don't think there should be any "bailouts" as it were. I just think any type of loan or standard payment should be forgiven. If you owe $1500 on your house loan today, it goes "poof" because there's a good chance you can't work or you can't work to your full capacity because we have shut down our entire economy. You don't get the entire loan forgiven, you just get a payment 'taken off the books'. And I'm not talking deferred here. the payment is treated as though it was made, your balance is subsequently lowered as if you paid it, but you simply are not required to make any payments on any loans or utilities until the "quarantine" is lifted. After that life returns to normal.

Why exactly should the banking and utility industry continue to make their money while the rest of the economy is plunged into bankruptcy? They should eat it just as the rest of us are. And BY waiving all those payments, people maintain what money or income they have to pay for essential needs items like food and apparently black-market toilet paper.
 
So, basically we're talking universal, forced vaccines for everyone to participate in "society."

The rest is just a battering ram at the end of the day.

"Don't the believe the church and state, and everything they tell you" times are here.


At this point, America parallels ancient Israel in the Book of Nehemiah:

"Now therefore, our God, the great, the mighty, and the terrible God, who keepest covenant and mercy, let not all the trouble seem little before thee, that hath come upon us, on our kings, on our princes, and on our priests, and on our prophets, and on our fathers, and on all thy people, since the time of the kings of Assyria unto this day.

33 Howbeit thou art just in all that is brought upon us; for thou hast done right, but we have done wickedly:

34 Neither have our kings, our princes, our priests, nor our fathers, kept thy law, nor hearkened unto thy commandments and thy testimonies, wherewith thou didst testify against them.

35 For they have not served thee in their kingdom, and in thy great goodness that thou gavest them, and in the large and fat land which thou gavest before them, neither turned they from their wicked works.

36 Behold, we are servants this day, and for the land that thou gavest unto our fathers to eat the fruit thereof and the good thereof, behold, we are servants in it:

37 And it yieldeth much increase unto the kings whom thou hast set over us because of our sins: also they have dominion over our bodies, and over our cattle, at their pleasure, and we are in great distress."
I already am for vaccines for all who can have them.
 
It's all about accountability.

You can't force somebody to do something without taking full responsibility for the outcome, however it manifests.
 
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