The Coronavirus thread

[Confluence]

My sister-in-law’s family has Penguins season tickets, they fly down to Florida for vacation every year, and they lease new cars every four years, including those of their kids. They have no savings, retirement or otherwise, despite being in their 50’s because... they can’t afford it. They live paycheck to paycheck as do many Americans. They love variable rates and when interest rates drop. If they were to stop living this way, it would be prudent however, it would also severely hurt the US “economy”.

It’s fake.

So, your family members are dumb. Unsurprising news.

They consume in a way that upsets your sensibilities. Sure.

What part is fake?

Maybe look up what "fake" means?

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[Stoney]

I'd be curious to see how the death rate of Americans in general over the past 3 months compares to the same 3 month period from last year and the year before. Anyone able to find that info?


Same for Italy,

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Current Deaths
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-death-toll/

 

[madinsomniac]

Who is exaggerating and overstating the risks? Who is inciting panic?

They are exaggerating and overstating risks... its really basic math... its why i was screaming from the get go that it was serious but not the pandemic we were worrying about for so long...


Tgere is a pretty good chance i got it in Ohio early this week... and i am far from freaked out about it...at worse it’s pneumonia, and while pneumonia is no joke, it’s no death sentence


Everyone is using this to tgeir advantage and it’s sickening...

Trump is going to play the hero, the left will try to use it to demonize him, the corporation’s are trying to bury a trillion dollars in inevitable cuts and losses into bailouts, the globalists are using it to erode blockades to their agenda with crisis precedents that will be expanded later

Get the hospitals up, get the respirators in... rush the potential cure through the current trial, then cut it loose... there isn’t containment anymore. Social distancing will have done what it can do for a month. The death rate is exaggerated... the current infection numbers are woefully understated...

Its like any if the other coronaviruses, flus, or colds out there now... warm temperatures basically drastically dip viral spread rates... get this into mid april and the thing is over quickly

 

[oneforthebus]

I'm confused, if you don't think this is something to be taken seriously, why don't you blame the WH & the government for taking all these drastic steps and measures. If you think this whole covid-19 situation should be brushed away and dismissed?

Never said that, another strawman.

It should be taken seriously, but the response could be much more measured than it is. I agree with these temporary measures to slow the spread and "flatten the curve" as they say. So that we don't overwhelm the healthcare system. After that, isolate sick people and those at greatest risk. We cannot shut down life as we know it indefinitely. We are sadly going to have to accept a certain amount of illness and death (as we do with the flu, every single season). Because the consequences of what we're doing will be equally grave if it goes on too long.

And stop propagating fear by acting like this is the deadliest illness ever. This isn't the plague. It's a mild illness in most people. That is not dismissing, that is not being flippant, that is not sticking my head in the sand. It is a fact.

 

[madinsomniac]

https://www.rochesterregional.org/news/2020/01/flu-season-2020

Two things... this far 45,000 people have died of the flu in the us, which is an extremely high number... the hot take is that coronavirus blew containment long before we started looking for it here and is already extremely widespread... some of the flu deaths were unrecognized coronavirus....


In three years when the final numbers are crunched on this the death rate will be under a half percent... maybe even lower than the flu

 

[Stoney]

My sister-in-law’s family has Penguins season tickets, they fly down to Florida for vacation every year, and they lease new cars every four years, including those of their kids. They have no savings, retirement or otherwise, despite being in their 50’s because... they can’t afford it. They live paycheck to paycheck as do many Americans. They love variable rates and when interest rates drop. If they were to stop living this way, it would be prudent however, it would also severely hurt the US “economy”.

It’s fake.

I also have family members who live like this, they always have, not just during this administration.

Even though I earn a little more than they do, I save and invest as much as I can. But I can't help but ask myself which of us is really the foolish party? If we both died tomorrow, they would've lived life to the fullest manner they could've possibly afforded, and died with no money in the bank and mountains of debt for banks to write off. While I, on the other hand, deprived myself of many desired experiences to save for a future that may never come. And I will leave all of my savings to be confiscated by the government to be redistributed to unwed mothers and illegal immigrants.

So I ask again, which of us is really the foolish party?

 

[Confluence]

If you spread disinformation, that is fear mongering.
If you share only "scary" information, that is fear mongering.

...

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

https://www.rochesterregional.org/news/2020/01/flu-season-2020

Two things... this far 45,000 people have died of the flu in the us, which is an extremely high number... the hot take is that coronavirus blew containment long before we started looking for it here and is already extremely widespread... some of the flu deaths were unrecognized coronavirus....


In three years when the final numbers are crunched on this the death rate will be under a half percent... maybe even lower than the flu

It would have to be under .1 percent to be lower than the flu, .5 percent I have predicted all along but that is still bad considering how easily it spreads. Now if we get treatments going soon that will change the dynamic.

No one should "panic" we should take it seriously and we are.

 

[madinsomniac]

It would have to be under .1 percent to be lower than the flu, .5 percent I have predicted all along but that is still bad considering how easily it spreads. Now if we get treatments going soon that will change the dynamic.

No one should "panic" we should take it seriously and we are.

The medical statitcians who have actually crunched numbers have all come out with a number between .65 at a worse case and .05 at a best case... the expectation is it will be almost exactly like the flu

And yes take it seriously but not panic, I think almost everyone agrees with that

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Fear mongering is the media dedicating their entire broadcast to what is going wrong with the pandemic, without a glimmer of anything positive.

They did a segment about ordinary citizens making masks out of surgical scrubs, that will increase the life of a N95 masks when placed over them. Instead of praising the American spirit, they called the act desperation.

The MSM has set up the market to fall another 2,000 points tomorrow. They are overstating, exaggerating and inciting panic. The hell with them all.

 

[Hypocycloids]

 

[Hypocycloids]

I'd be curious to see how the death rate of Americans in general over the past 3 months compares to the same 3 month period from last year and the year before. Anyone able to find that info?


Same for Italy,

The past couple days in the news:

First Covid-19 death reported in Massachusetts!

First COVID death reported in Washington DC!

Was this news when the first deaths occurred from the flu in these places?
Its ridiculous out there.

 

[SteelChip]

Beaches are packed in St. Augustine, Florida. That's about 15 miles from me. And I do mean packed. This is just south of Jacksonville Beach. Which is closed. It should be interesting to see the outcome. I'd wager not much out of it considering the outdoors location.

I don't think my county ( Putnam ) which is just west of you has a single case yet ( knock on wood ).

 

[madinsomniac]

Like at this point some of the liberals I know have gone into outright illogical propaganda mode about things

Screaming about how the red tape bureaucracy that kept testing from going smoothly should have been circumvented earlier then saying that we shouldn’t circumvent red tape bureaucracy from the FDA to use an already approved drug as a potential cure... all because of what trump’s administration failed to catch in one case, and supports on the other side

Screaming about actions I personally debated with them during the Obama catastrophic pandemic plans, which they wholeheartedly supported then and flip flopped now

Ignoring the math to try to extrapolate millions dead in order to make this feel worse... hell they are actively celebrating the stock market dip despite it ruining a metric ton of lives cause it gives them an outside chance at winning in november

Look this is something that warrented travel bans and quarantines... the two week lockdown can have a logical argument made for it... an outright nationwide quarantine is pushing it... talk of months of lockdown for a relatively average virus in the grand scheme of things is just stupidity winning over reality...

And You conservatives would be going apeshit if obama had done this stuff in an election year... the conspiracy theories and screams about freedom would have ******* deafened the country... and some of those bailouts? Woof...

 

[Badcat]

Like at this point some of the liberals I know have gone into outright illogical propaganda mode about things

Screaming about how the red tape bureaucracy that kept testing from going smoothly should have been circumvented earlier then saying that we shouldn’t circumvent red tape bureaucracy from the FDA to use an already approved drug as a potential cure... all because of what trump’s administration failed to catch in one case, and supports on the other side

Screaming about actions I personally debated with them during the Obama catastrophic pandemic plans, which they wholeheartedly supported then and flip flopped now

Ignoring the math to try to extrapolate millions dead in order to make this feel worse... hell they are actively celebrating the stock market dip despite it ruining a metric ton of lives cause it gives them an outside chance at winning in november

Look this is something that warrented travel bans and quarantines... the two week lockdown can have a logical argument made for it... an outright nationwide quarantine is pushing it... talk of months of lockdown for a relatively average virus in the grand scheme of things is just stupidity winning over reality...

And You conservatives would be going apeshit if obama had done this stuff in an election year... the conspiracy theories and screams about freedom would have ******* deafened the country... and some of those bailouts? Woof...

I'll go on record as stating that I didn't agree with government bailouts during the Obama Administration, and I don't agree with them under the Trump Administration. Why do we have to put the country into even more debt over a bullshit scare tactic. Whatever the government sends me is going straight to my local foodbank since I can't outright refuse it.

 

[SojournerSteel]

What is God doing in all of this? Can it be without significance that Easter and Passover seasons are coming up with the specter of people the world over quarantined in their homes as the Israelites were on the night the Lord passed through and smote the gods of Egypt prior to the salvation of the Exodus?

Plagues were central to the drama.

Just look at the massive number of CEO's who have stepped down this year. Sports and Hollywood shut down. A disproportionate number of athletes and entertainers said to have Coronavirus. The media fully discredited by most thinking people. The gods of Egypt aren't doing too well right now just in time for the Holy Days and reflection upon Deliverance and Salvation that comes only from the Lord who made Heaven and Earth.

 

[SteelChip]

Fear mongering is the media dedicating their entire broadcast to what is going wrong with the pandemic, without a glimmer of anything positive.

They did a segment about ordinary citizens making masks out of surgical scrubs, that will increase the life of a N95 masks when placed over them. Instead of praising the American spirit, they called the act desperation.

The MSM has set up the market to fall another 2,000 points tomorrow. They are overstating, exaggerating and inciting panic. The hell with them all.

I think there is an increasing number of people in this Country that are opening their eyes and thinking.....

It just feels like we are being played.

Whether Trump wins re-election in 2020 matters less and less to the left. The pieces are in place; the "pandemic play" has done the trick that Nazism, communism, and socialism could not do from the outside.

So if it is a plot — who are the plotters? Deep State intelligence holdovers in cahoots with the CCP? Is George Soros in the mix? Or is this just another conspiracy theory in the age of conspiracy theories?

We'd prefer to believe that it is a conspiracy theory with no merit.

But we would also have preferred to believe that America's DOJ and FBI were not capable of the manifestly criminal behavior that they engaged in the run-up to and aftermath of Trump's election—all with the purpose of overthrowing the duly elected American president.

We would have preferred to believe that no American Congressman would have been capable of the tyrannical abuse of the rule of law that Adam Schiff transparently engaged in to promote an impeachment and removal of the duly elected American president.

And we would prefer to believe that we would never see America in the condition it is in right now—paralyzed by fear and ordered into passive submission by actions of the American government.

And so we, along with millions of other Americans, are not sure what to believe about what is happening to this country in March 2020. It feels like we are being played.
https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2020/03/are_america_and_trump_being_played.html#ixzz6HPr8aSdK

 

[SojournerSteel]

This article is SUPER. I encourage everyone to read. Does a good job of explaining how the stats are so incredibly misleading.

https://medium.com/six-four-six-nine/evidence-over-hysteria-covid-19-1b767def5894

Evidence over hysteria — COVID-19

After watching the outbreak of COVID-19 for the past two months, I’ve followed the pace of the infection, its severity, and how our world is tackling the virus. While we should be concerned and diligent, the situation has dramatically elevated to a mob-like fear spreading faster than COVID-19 itself. When 13% of Americans believe they are currently infected with COVID-19 (mathematically impossible), full-on panic is blocking our ability to think clearly and determine how to deploy our resources to stop this virus. Over three-fourths of Americans are scared of what we are doing to our society through law and hysteria, not of infection or spreading COVID-19 to those most vulnerable.

The following article is a systematic overview of COVID-19 driven by data from medical professionals and academic articles that will help you understand what is going on (sources include CDC, WHO, NIH, NHS, University of Oxford, John Hopkins, Stanford, Harvard, NEJM, JAMA, and several others). I’m quite experienced at understanding virality, how things grow, and data. In my vocation, I’m most known for popularizing the “growth hacking movement” in Silicon Valley that specializes in driving rapid and viral adoption of technology products. Data is data. Our focus here isn’t treatments but numbers. You don’t need a special degree to understand what the data says and doesn’t say. Numbers are universal.

I hope you walk away with a more informed perspective on how you can help and fight back against the hysteria that is driving our country into a dark place. You can help us focus our scarce resources on those who are most vulnerable, who need our help.

Note: The following graphs and numbers are as of mid-March 2020. Things are moving quickly, so I update this article twice a day. Most graphs are as of March 20th, 2020. Follow me on Twitter if you would like to see the updated graphics and articles.

Best,

Aaron Ginn

Here are the chapters involved:

Table of Contents

1. Total cases are the wrong metric
2. Time lapsing new cases gives us perspective
3. On a per-capita basis, we shouldn’t be panicking
4. COVID-19 is spreading
5. Watch the Bell Curve
6. A low probability of catching COVID-19
7. Common transmission modes
8. COVID-19 is likely to burn off in the summer
9. Children and Teens aren’t at risk
10. Strong, but unknown viral effect
11. What about asymptomatic spread?
12. 93% of people who think they are positive aren’t
13. 1% of cases will be severe
14. Declining fatality rate
15. So what should we do?
16. Start with basic hygiene
17. More data
18. Open schools
19. Open up public spaces
20. Support business and productivity
21. People fear what the government will do, not infection
22. Expand medical capacity
23. Don’t let them forget it and vote

Preview:

Medium took it down, but it's still here:

https://www.zerohedge.com/health/covid-19-evidence-over-hysteria

 

[Aussie_Steeler]

I don't think it's a question of being scared or not scared of the virus itself. Though the fact it seems to be an extremely severe case of pneumonia which rapidly fills the lungs with fluid is not something anyone wants to deal with. I think it's more of a moral obligation we do whatever we can to reduce the spread, and keep our friends and loved ones safe.

It came swooping in hard and fast, country by country, and the numbers are now spiking in Europe & stateside. We need to make sure it doesn't get out of hand as it has in Italy, where, quite frankly, there is no end in sight. Over 800 people died today, it's been at a tick around 700+ per day over the past week. At this rate there may be over 1,000 dead per day from a highly contagious virus with no cure or vaccine, as of yet. And this is Italy, a country already on full lockdown and with stringent curfew and shelter in place measures. That should make us all sit up, take notice, and take a deep breath. No need for panic, but there's also no need for people to be flippant and dismissive. That is being irresponsible in my book, particularly seeing the number of cases rising significantly in the States over the past week. The situation sucks, in every which way. The economic fallout will be enormous, already is. The loss of human life and the effect it will have on people around the globe is substantial.

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Tibs, I'm not sure Europe (and especially Italy and Spain) should be used as a basis for extrapolating what will happen elsewhere. There are differences in culture and response. I would expect a major contributing factor to infection rates in Italy and Spain is the fact that kissing and hugging is a lot more common even between minor acquaintances and business associates than in most of the rest of the world and I believe intergenerational family relationships are a lot closer than the rest of Europe and the West which could lead to apparently healthy carriers being more likely to infect older relatives and acquaintances. Spain may also have a have a higher than normal death rate due to demography, as its beachside cities are the UK's retirement villages.

Also, if you look at the current infection rates as a percentage of population, its nearly all EU countries in the top 20.and most Asian countries, United States, Australia and New Zealand are well down the list - you know what the EU didn't do that most of Asia, United States, Australia and New Zealand did? The EU didn't close to borders to entrants from China or who had visited/transited China within 14 days prior to arrival back at the end of January, early February. Italy may have stopped flights from China (and some EU airlines stopped flying to China, but not all and Chinese airlines were still flying),but Chinese were still able to fly in via other countries, and the land borders throughout the Schengen region remained open meaning people who had been in the affected region of China could enter via another country and cross the border. Death rates would also be affected by Yes, Italy may be in full lockdown now, but by the time Italy (and the rest of the EU) had taken action to cut off entries from affected countries in Asia Covid-19 was already well entrenched.


Speaking of Japan, they have somehow avoided the hockey stick curve with infection numbers despite the fact they were one of the first countries to hit 100 infections, and have not shutdown to same degree as most of the the western world. I think there are several reasons:

1. Cleanliness is very important and they engage in less physical contact than most cultures;
2. As soon as a country showed increasing numbers of infections, Japan was generally early to require isolation (you might recall they had a bit of diplomatic spat with South Korea as a result);
3. They were also checking all entrants to the country for Covid symptoms.

Now,all this doesn't mean the countries faring better on a proportion of population basis, won't eventually get to the same levels as the European nations, but there are significant differences between the European response and the rest of the world response which have appear to have delayed the onset, and hopefully we won't get the same degree of spike in numbers. It's also better to be safe than sorry, and we are going to lockdown from tomorrow or Tuesday - initially it was going to be suburb by suburb based on outbreaks, now its the entire states of New South Wales (where I live) and Victoria. As I am the next suburb from the suburb which I think has the highest number of cases in Australia, I was expecting to be caught in the suburb by suburb lockdown anyway. Thankfully due to the wonders of modern technology I can still work - at least as long as clients are willing and able to keep paying the company I work for.

Whilst we are locking down we are doing some stupid **** here (such as not testing all passengers disembarking from cruise ships where some passengers are known to carry Covid-19, and not testing all the church goers from a service where seven tested positive) which doesn't help to prevent its spread.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

The Japanese also wear masks when in public during times like these. But masks don't work in the US for some reason, right?

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2020/01/31/national/coronavirus-japan-surgical-masks/#.XndU725FxEY

 

[Badcat]

What is God doing in all of this? Can it be without significance that Easter and Passover seasons are coming up with the specter of people the world over quarantined in their homes as the Israelites were on the night the Lord passed through and smote the gods of Egypt prior to the salvation of the Exodus?

Plagues were central to the drama.

Just look at the massive number of CEO's who have stepped down this year. Sports and Hollywood shut down. A disproportionate number of athletes and entertainers said to have Coronavirus. The media fully discredited by most thinking people. The gods of Egypt aren't doing too well right now just in time for the Holy Days and reflection upon Deliverance and Salvation that comes only from the Lord who made Heaven and Earth.

If God wanted a plague he wouldn't have given us a weak *** viral condition. I would like to think that he would smite humanity with a flesh melting/rotting condition that would render leprosy to that of acne.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

You want to know what really pisses me off? The obligatory facebook hypocondriac who every time a new flu variant comes around posts on FB about her kids being the first ones in the area with it. So of course, her 10 year old daughter now has a 100 degree temperature and she is ranting and demanding the local hospital test her and asking the whole community for prayers. Updating that her complaints to the hospital management now will have her daughter tested probably ahead of older folks who really need a test. F'n people....

 

[Troglodyte]

The only one that scoffed at the notion of a housing bubble was Barney Frank. Most saw the folly of lending money to those who had no chance of repaying.

Strange that the housing bubble happened then, isn’t it?

It was great for the economy, until it wasn’t.

 

[Steelr4evr]

You want to know what really pisses me off? The obligatory facebook hypocondriac who every time a new flu variant comes around posts on FB about her kids being the first ones in the area with it. So of course, her 10 year old daughter now has a 100 degree temperature and she is ranting and demanding the local hospital test her and asking the whole community for prayers. Updating that her complaints to the hospital management now will have her daughter tested probably ahead of older folks who really need a test. F'n people....

By the time you show symptoms you may have already carried it for up to 2 weeks possibly spreading it. If you can catch it early, the population is better off. Since now you can get yourself away from everyone before sneezing and coughing increases your power to infect others.


I'm generally a carrier when it comes to flu. I don't get it,but everyone else around me does.