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The Coronavirus thread

I say as someone in healthcare a big factor it’s the fear that has sucked up all our PPE. Not sure how you are fairing but my sites are hurting. The fear set by the media has caused the shelves of store to be empty, PPE to be gone, and other front line needs. It shouldn’t be the case.

We’re ok. We all have our own N95s but they’re good for one shift. This could quickly deplete by midweek. Our hospital is always busy. It was eerily quiet the past 2 days. Starting the weekend we are eliminating all visitors to the hospital. Allegheny Network has already made that move.

I hear you about the hoarders. Hopefully your administration listened to what Trump was saying about going directly through the state. It is quicker. It’s how it’s supposed to work.
 
I am convinced that this is a biological weapons attack by the Chinese. It is a response to Trump's sanctions. China is desperate.
 
I say as someone in healthcare a big factor it’s the fear that has sucked up all our PPE. Not sure how you are fairing but my sites are hurting. The fear set by the media has caused the shelves of store to be empty, PPE to be gone, and other front line needs. It shouldn’t be the case.

I agree that we shouldn’t panic.
That creates more chaos at a bad time.

But for all you guys in the medical field. It’s always good to stay on the side of caution. Just for the fact it’s a novel virus and we don’t know the actual recovery/death rate.

Hopefully by summers end or next year we can all look back and chalk this up to a super virus.
Reminds me of the 2006 mrsa super bug but just on a bigger scale
 
Eerie:

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">GHOST TOWN: Incredible drone video from above shows some <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/Pittsburgh?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#Pittsburgh</a> bridges during rush hour. Normally thousands commute, but now just a handful due to the <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/coronavirus?src=hash&ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#coronavirus</a>. <a href="https://t.co/Fz42HyFgGs">https://t.co/Fz42HyFgGs</a> <a href="https://t.co/2LKpGMGXh1">pic.twitter.com/2LKpGMGXh1</a></p>— KDKA (@KDKA) <a href="https://twitter.com/KDKA/status/1240675069698998272?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 19, 2020</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Wow what a complete contrast from my area. I drove from Fleming Island to out near Jacksonville Airport. It's about a 36 mile trip. Normal work traffic to and from. Maybe a hair lighter than normal since schools are all.closed. But you would never guess anything out of the ordinary is going on.

So either a whole bunch of people are going to get sick or the things we are doing now have been enough. Which is.pretty much shutting down anything that has a high volume of people congregated together.
 
Wow what a complete contrast from my area. I drove from Fleming Island to out near Jacksonville Airport. It's about a 36 mile trip. Normal work traffic to and from. Maybe a hair lighter than normal since schools are all.closed. But you would never guess anything out of the ordinary is going on.

So either a whole bunch of people are going to get sick or the things we are doing now have been enough. Which is.pretty much shutting down anything that has a high volume of people congregated together.

We’ll find out this week.

As a manager in my department I’ve kept us to short hours and limited staff.
Our upper management is assuring us 8 hour paychecks for the inconvenience that his had on my department.
 
Trump is not going to make the claim until things are under control here. But why do you think he keeps bringing it back to the Chinese virus?

It's no coincidence or accident. They are not our friends. After it's all over they'll going to feel the impact economically. For as smart and sneaky as they are. They sure didn't think this through enough.
 
And something else...how long do governments think they can just keep businesses closed. Lots of small businesses will not survive this, and depending on how long it goes, some large businesses won’t either. This has the potential to do lasting damage to the economy the longer this goes. There has to be a better plan than “stay home” indefinitely.

Can you imagine Sarge,I hear you. I live in one of the highest real estate/rent/ lease markets in North America. Our debt per household ratio is probably one of the highest as well. We certainly pay for the beauty of living in Vancouver.

I live in a prime area filled with restaurants,bars,unique stores etc,a few blocks from the beach. Like anywhere else I suppose the turnover of restaurants,coffee shops,boutique type stores closing has always boggled my mind. I talk to a few of the store owners of various places and am always shocked at what they have to pay for their lease. I am in the construction industry,sometimes I do work for a very successful local upscale Hamburg type chain,with over 100 restaurants in my Province. The one Franchise owner equated all his talk into hamburgers. He would say.....you know how many hamburgers you have to sell when your lease is 35,000$ a month?

Now I think about all these people......not just the workers but the owners as well. Shutdown. Still having to pay the incredible lease,power,WiFi,taxes,a lot of the public demanding them to pay wages while being shutdown. Not knowing for how long. The **** has yet to hit the fan in all this.....
 
You can be certain a supply of full biosuits will be stocked handy after this. Which is what healthcare needs for anything that's highly contagious. Those are the last people you want getting it.
 
Steelmann, I assume you live in Vancouver, BC. Are you experiencing an unprecedented shutdown up there?
 
It's no coincidence or accident. They are not our friends. After it's all over they'll going to feel the impact economically. For as smart and sneaky as they are. They sure didn't think this through enough.

Those fn Canadians!!!

 
And something else...how long do governments think they can just keep businesses closed. Lots of small businesses will not survive this, and depending on how long it goes, some large businesses won’t either. This has the potential to do lasting damage to the economy the longer this goes. There has to be a better plan than “stay home” indefinitely.

I have an idea that's overly simplistic and rather Archie Bunker-ish in nature, think of his solution to airline hijackings.

Anyway, why not put all those at high risk of death on house arrest until this all blows over? The government can bring food and supplies to them and no one leave the house.
This way the young and healthy can continue to work, and even if they do contract the virus, in most cases, it would be symptom free. And if it get serious for them, there would still be adequate facilities to treat them.

Only downside as I see it would be an increase in spousal homicides.
 
I have an idea that's overly simplistic and rather Archie Bunker-ish in nature, think of his solution to airline hijackings.

Anyway, why not put all those at high risk of death on house arrest until this all blows over? The government can bring food and supplies to them and no one leave the house.
This way the young and healthy can continue to work, and even if they do contract the virus, in most cases, it would be symptom free. And if it get serious for them, there would still be adequate facilities to treat them.

Only downside as I see it would be an increase in spousal homicides.

Better than what we're doing now IMO. I think we should go back to work, some will get sick, some will die, some will not be affected. That's how the game of life works.
 
S
Steelmann, I assume you live in Vancouver, BC. Are you experiencing an unprecedented shutdown up there?

Yes Steel. The one thing I do notice as of today is the amount of people walking,cycling,just being outside. Not the shopping part ,more the exercise type thing.....getting out of the house so to speak. The weather has been great,and of course it is spring break. So everyone is not traveling and getting out with the kids. The problem is as of tonight they just closed the public playgrounds,so that will definitely freak people out. They are of course suggesting for people to stay home,but are saying it’s ok to go for walks,just to keep your space.
Of course all libraries,community centers are closed. The grocery store was letting x amount of people in the stores at a time,replenishing as people went out. The rain is going to start this weekend,people will start getting restless.

Being a subcontractor in a construction business,I am getting more nervous. The phones have stopped ringing. I usually work on the big dollar new residential construction,renovation market we have here. Obviously a lot of people are nervous,they are not spending,projects are being put on hold. My spring,summer,fall season of course is usually my busiest. It’s a good thing interest rates are so low,could you guys imagine if they were in the 7% or higher range,it would be a catastrophe. I remember back in81 when there was 21% interest rates and you couldn’t buy a job. My gut says this little period ahead of us is going to suck for a while. And I am generally an optimistic person.
 
I have an idea that's overly simplistic and rather Archie Bunker-ish in nature, think of his solution to airline hijackings.

Anyway, why not put all those at high risk of death on house arrest until this all blows over? The government can bring food and supplies to them and no one leave the house.
This way the young and healthy can continue to work, and even if they do contract the virus, in most cases, it would be symptom free. And if it get serious for them, there would still be adequate facilities to treat them.

Only downside as I see it would be an increase in spousal homicides.

I like it.
Except there will be those that won't or can't comply. I fall into the house arrest age group. I am a beast though. Workout every day* . Go out every day. Go to work every day. Have no symptoms.

* Before the virus. Now my cities rec center is closed, Planet Fitness closed, Kings gym closed. Its a fix for me, gotta have it. Now I resort to taking my dog for long walks. It's not the same. It doesn't get the heart rate up like cardio.
Cant get my fix. This really blows.
 
I like it.
Except there will be those that won't or can't comply. I fall into the house arrest age group. I am a beast though. Workout every day* . Go out every day. Go to work every day. Have no symptoms.

* Before the virus. Now my cities rec center is closed, Planet Fitness closed, Kings gym closed. Its a fix for me, gotta have it. Now I resort to taking my dog for long walks. It's not the same. It doesn't get the heart rate up like cardio.
Cant get my fix. This really blows.

Pushups,pullups, situps,planks, bodyweight squats,split squats,lunges. Go high volume on all. Make it a challenge. Set a timer say 10:00 minutes for each. Bang out as many pushups as possible in that time. Same for.pullups,squats and situps. You can set all 3 into a superset as well. It will absolutely get your heart rate up and your oxygen intake up.

If you have a few pairs of dumbbells you can do all kinds of squat presses,curls,rows, pushup rows.... Trust me you do not need a gym to keep yourself at a high level. You.can do it with a bare minimum of equipment or nothing and a little old school creativity.
 
Really interesting...we can blame undue regulations for delays in testing

The Regulatory Hurdles to Blame for Delayed Coronavirus Testing

There have been three major regulatory barriers so far.

Addressing the media alongside the coronavirus task force on Thursday, Donald Trump said he would “slash red tape like nobody has even done it before” to get approval for coronavirus treatments.

That would be a welcome development indeed. What’s unfortunate is that there was no similar push at the beginning of the crisis to expedite coronavirus testing. The U.S. response to the pandemic has been hampered at every level due to insufficient testing capacity.

The first coronavirus case in the U.S. and South Korea was detected on January 21. Since then, South Korea has effectively contained the coronavirus without shutting down its economy or quarantining tens of millions of people. Instead, the Korean government has pursued a “trace, test, and treat” strategy that identifies and isolates those infected with the coronavirus while allowing healthy people to go about their normal lives. Hong Kong, Singapore, and Taiwan have also managed to contain the virus via a combination of travel restrictions, social distancing, and heightened hygiene.

Unfortunately, the United States has not made testing widely available and now various regions are being forced to impose severe economic and social lockdowns. As of March 17, the U.S. had tested only about 125 people per million. South Korea had tested more than 5,000 people per million. Between early February and mid-March, the U.S. lost six crucial weeks because regulators stuck to rigid regulations instead of adapting as new information came in. While these rules might have made sense in normal times, they proved disastrous in a pandemic.

Under ordinary circumstances, the cost of using an imperfect diagnostic test often outweighs the benefit. But when public health officials need to contain a novel and highly contagious disease, speed matters more than perfection. The lessons from this debacle are clear: The FDA needs to have plans in place prior to a pandemic for public labs and private companies to produce their own test kits. A distributed strategy would be much more resilient to errors, in contrast to the single point of failure created by the FDA in this crisis. Poor planning and mindless adherence to peacetime regulations led to this abysmal result:

https%3A%2F%2Fbucketeer-e05bbc84-baa3-437e-9518-adb32be77984.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fpublic%2Fimages%2Fa52fb20f-a5c6-4034-8910-8a4018ffbc5f_1200x677.png


How did the U.S. government only manage to produce a fraction as many testing kits as its peer countries? There have been three major regulatory barriers so far to scaling up testing by public labs and private companies: 1) obtaining an Emergency Use Authorization (EUA); 2) being certified to perform high-complexity testing consistent with requirements under Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments (CLIA); and 3) complying with the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act (HIPAA) Privacy Rule and the Common Rule related to the protection of human research subjects. One the demand side, narrow restrictions on who qualified for testing prevented the U.S. from adequately using what capacity it did have.

It’s important to understand the broader context of the FDA regulatory process. It often takes more than a decade for a new diagnostic test or therapeutic drug to earn FDA approval. Fortunately, the FDA already has the ability to let public labs and private companies circumvent the regular approval process under its Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) authority. So, why was this emergency authority ineffective in scaling up coronavirus testing? Here is a timeline of the most important events:

December 31: The WHO received reports of dozens of cases of pneumonia of unknown cause in Wuhan City, Wubei Province, China.

January 9: China announced it has mapped the genome of the novel coronavirus.

January 21. The CDC confirmed the first case of coronavirus in the United States in the state of Washington and announced it had finalized its coronavirus testing protocol.

January 23: German researchers published the first paper describing a testing protocol for the novel coronavirus. The WHO would later use this protocol as the basis for the millions of tests it produced for less-developed countries.

January 30: The WHO declared a global health emergency.

January 31: HHS Secretary Alex Azar declared a public health emergency, which initiated a new requirement—labs that wanted to conduct their own coronavirus tests must first obtain an emergency use authorization (EUA) from the FDA. According to reporting from Reuters, the emergency declaration made it more difficult to expand testing outside the CDC:



This was the moment when the wheels came off the bus. Keith Jerome, the lab director at the University of Washington Virology Lab in Seattle, told The New Yorker how perverse this heightened standard was from a public health perspective:



EUAs were intended to speed up the normal authorization process. But in this case, labs that were already conducting their own coronavirus tests needed to cease operations until they were granted an EUA. By declaring a public health emergency and not waiving EUA requirements, the FDA was actually slowing down the testing process.

Obtaining an EUA is no quick task. The FDA requires new protocols to be validated by testing at least five known positive samples from a patient or a copy of the virus genome. Most hospital labs have not even seen coronavirus cases yet. An article in GQ magazine detailed how Alex Greninger, an assistant director of the clinical virology laboratories at the University of Washington Medical Center, was forced to navigate a regulatory morass:



But submitting the physical application wasn’t the end of the process. Before granting the EUA, the FDA wanted Greninger to run his testing protocol against the MERS and SARS viruses:



February 3: The FDA hosted a previously scheduled all-day conference at its headquarters with regulators, researchers, and industry leaders to “discuss the general process for putting diagnostic tests cleared under emergencies on the path to permanent approval by the FDA,” according to reporting by Reuters. “Though coronavirus was now the hottest topic in global medicine, a broadcast of the meeting conveyed little sense of urgency about the epidemic sweeping the globe” and the virus was only mentioned “in passing.”

February 4: The FDA issued an emergency use authorization (EUA) for the CDC’s test to be used at any CDC-qualified lab. Prior to issuing the CDC an EUA, all tests had been collected in the field and then shipped to CDC headquarters in Atlanta for analysis. During this time period, the CDC was able to run only about 500 tests (12 of which came back positive). To implement nationwide testing, the CDC would need to distribute its testing kits to partner labs across the country.

In a declared emergency, the FDA has broad discretion about which laboratory-developed tests will be permitted to be used. By only issuing a single EUA to the CDC, the FDA put all its eggs in one basket. Alan Wells, the medical director for the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center’s clinical laboratories, told the Wall Street Journal: “We had considered developing a test but had been in communication with the CDC and FDA and had been told that the federal and state authorities would be able to handle everything.”

February 5: The CDC began shipping test kits to about 100 state, city, and county public-health laboratories across the country, which would have allowed 50,000 patients to be tested. However, most of the partner labs ran into problems during the validation stage (which is necessary to ensure the tests were functioning properly), according to a ProPublica investigation:



The specific cause of these problems is still under investigation, but the initial findings suggest there were problems with one or more of the reagents used in the CDC testing kits. The CDC paused testing at its partner labs and resumed exclusive — and very limited — testing at its Atlanta headquarters.

February 10: The CDC notified the FDA about the reagent problems in the testing kits it had shipped to its partner labs. By not allowing private companies or public labs to use their own tests, the FDA had created a single point of failure and ultimately delayed large-scale testing by weeks. Keith Jerome, the lab director at the University of Washington, explained to The New Yorker why the FDA’s plan was vulnerable from the outset:



February 21: Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases (NCIRD) at the CDC, told journalists that the issues with the reagents were still not resolved.

February 24: An association of more than 100 state and local health laboratories sent a letter to the FDA commissioner asking for “enforcement discretion” to use their own lab-developed tests. The chief executive of the association that sent the letter called it a “Hail Mary” pass and an act of desperation. The FDA directed the labs to submit an EUA application instead.

Between mid-January and February 28, the CDC produced more than 160,000 tests but used fewer than 4,000.

February 29: Facing a backlash to its rollout of testing, the FDA reversed its position and removed the requirement that advanced laboratories obtain prior emergency use authorization before using their own tests. At the time, this exemption applied only to “laboratories that are certified to perform high-complexity testing consistent with requirements under Clinical Laboratory Improvement Amendments.” One researcher estimated 5,000 virology labs in the country met this standard. For context, U.S. testing capacity includes approximately 260,000 laboratory entities.

March 3: Vice President Pence announced the CDC was lifting all federal restrictions on who can be tested for COVID-19: “Any American can be tested, no restrictions, subject to doctor’s orders.” Previously, testing was limited to only those who were exhibiting symptoms and had recently traveled to China or had been exposed to a known case. However, the supply of tests in particular regions would continue to be the most common binding constraint.

March 12: The FDA issued an EUA to Roche. Paul Brown, the head of Roche’s Molecular Solutions division, told The New Yorker, that “the company had been working on a test since February 1st” and that “the new tests, which are mostly automated, can make it possible for large testing companies such as Quest and LabCorp to test for COVID-19.” The CDC and state and local public health labs have been running tests manually. Reaching the scale of millions of tests will require automated tests on high throughput machines at large testing companies.

March 13: President Trump declared a national emergency. The FDA issued an EUA to Thermo Fisher.

March 15: HHS Secretary Azar waived sanctions and penalties against any covered hospital that does not comply with various provisions of the HIPAA Privacy Rule related to patient privacy and consent, including the need “to obtain a patient’s agreement to speak with family members or friends involved in the patient’s care.” Previously, HIPAA privacy provisions and the Common Rule were holding up testing and the dissemination of information. According to an article in the New York Times, these kinds of requirements prevented labs from conducting coronavirus tests on samples collected for research purposes:



They were not to test the thousands of samples that had already been collected.

March 16: The FDA expanded the EUA exemption to all commercial manufacturers and labs using new commercially developed tests, not just those that are certified to perform high-complexity testing under CLIA. The FDA also devolved regulatory oversight of these labs to the states. Wojtek Kopczuk, a professor of economics at Columbia University, quipped that the “FDA sped up the process by removing itself from the process.” The FDA also issued EUAs to Hologic and LabCorp. Co-Diagnostics, a molecular diagnostics company based in Utah, already had a test available in Europe and claimed it could supply 50,000 coronavirus tests per day going forward under the new FDA exemption. On Monday, government officials announced they were going to set up more drive-through testing centers. By the end of the week, they said they expect to have 1.9 million tests available thanks to high throughput automated machines at commercial labs.

Lessons learned.
In her call with reporters on February 21, Nancy Messonnier, who runs the CDC’s research on immunization and respiratory diseases, said: “We are working with the FDA, who have oversight over us, under the EUA, on redoing some of the kits. We obviously would not want to use anything but the most perfect possible kits, since we’re making determinations about whether people have COVID-19 or not.” This mentality is understandable coming from a regulator under ordinary circumstances. In normal times, and with non-highly contagious diseases, many of these regulations related to testing make sense. However, during a global pandemic, the risk calculus shifts. As Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO's health emergencies program, said in a press conference last week, when battling a new virus, “speed trumps perfection.”

The FDA did the right thing when it expanded the EUA exemption to all labs and manufacturers and devolved regulatory oversight to the states. The Department of Health and Human Services did the right thing when it waived certain provisions of the HIPAA Privacy Rule. But all of these actions were six weeks too late. Policymakers should consider implementing an automatic trigger so these decisions are made immediately upon the declaration of a public health emergency. COVID-19 will not be the last public health emergency. Speed, not perfection must be the focus of government agencies who are entrusted to protect the health of hundreds of millions of Americans. A distributed approach would be much more resilient to the inevitable mistakes and accidents inherent to pandemic response. Instead, in this crisis, the FDA bet big on a single testing protocol from the CDC and burned its ships. And when the “perfect” test failed spectacularly, everyone was left wishing for a way to retreat.
Tim, this is an excellent example of how a regulatory scheme harms the very people it was intended to protect.

The problem with the FDA is the FDA.

It need a re-vamp, stat.

Do you have a link to the post pls?

Sent from my SM-N950W using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
I miss hockey. Badly.

I wonder what paradigm shifts come out of this on the other aside in terms of sports? Pro sports are so trivial and how will economically displaced Americans feel about filthy rich athletes like LBJ who kowtowed to China in attacking Rockets GM Daryl Morey over the Hong Kong protests for example?

I can say for myself that the Kobe month long worship service was the final straw for me even before Corona. I lost complete interest in sports and haven't watched ESPN in almost 2 months. I don't know if I want to go back.

What happens when people learn to live without the distracting, ambient noise of the sports complex, and discover there are more worthwhile, constructive pursuits?

I don't know that people will go back en masse. For a lot of reasons.
 
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I feel sorry for yinz up air in da 'Burgh. My brother was planing a visit here in Florida but had to cancel. Here's his plight.

First, Governor Wolf issued a mandatory shutdown of all nonessential businesses under threat of loss of state licenses and fines
Residential construction is considered nonessential
My kitchen is currently torn up, no water and only half the cabinets installed, no countertops, a mess
Trying to find out if the are coming out to finish, and when

All that aside, it is crazy up here, most the golf courses are closed, along with virtually everything else
My family is aggressively trying to keep me from leaving the house

Down here the courses are open but some are keeping the clubhouses closed with people stationed at tables for your money ( cc only btw--no cash )

The simple truth is the coronavirus has had very little effect, causing around 125 deaths nationwide. What has caused the unprecedented closing down of America is media-hype about the coronavirus. We are suffering the consequences of deranged Democrats and fake news media willing to sacrifice everything to stop a president from implementing his America-first agenda.
https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/03/how_long_will_americans_tolerate_coronamadness.html

I'm over it. The numbers continue to show that it is over hype and pure unadulterated politics. The only direction that I see as a positive note is the personal responsibility reminder. If you know you are vulnerable or will be around someone who is vulnerable, keep away and wash up.

Oh yeah....lest we forget, many thanks and kudos to Shane and others in his field for putting their health on the line to help others.

b89f56b4c950ae2f751472ee55475518.jpg
 
I wonder what paradigm shifts come out of this on the other aside in terms of sports? Pro sports are so trivial and how will economically displaced Americans feel about filthy rich athletes like LBJ who kowtowed to China in attacking Rockets GM Daryl Morey over the Hong Kong protests for example?

I can say for myself that the Kobe month long worship service was the final straw for me even before Corona. I lost complete interest in sports and haven't watched ESPN in almost 2 months. I don't know if I want to go back.

What happens when people learn to live without the distracting, ambient noise of the sports complex, and discover there are more worthwhile, constructive pursuits?

I don't know that people will go back en masse. For a lot of reasons.

I can't wait for a time when my biggest aggravation is how bad Tomlin sucks. Probably around the second quarter of our first game.
 
I feel sorry for yinz up air in da 'Burgh. My brother was planing a visit here in Florida but had to cancel. Here's his plight.



Down here the courses are open but some are keeping the clubhouses closed with people stationed at tables for your money ( cc only btw--no cash )



I'm over it. The numbers continue to show that it is over hype and pure unadulterated politics. The only direction that I see as a positive note is the personal responsibility reminder. If you know you are vulnerable or will be around someone who is vulnerable, keep away and wash up.

Oh yeah....lest we forget, many thanks and kudos to Shane and others in his field for putting their health on the line to help others.

b89f56b4c950ae2f751472ee55475518.jpg

My daughter had an experience close to your meme luckily for her unluckily for him he was septic not coronavirus.

Deaths here have climbed to 276 with NYC having about one an hour now. It is getting worse on a steep curve. If we don't take these precautions and the curve continues it's current climb it will be ugly and yes the numbers are justifying this.
 
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