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The Coronavirus thread

Let me take this slow, and this time try to stay on point....

You have advocated for masks and lock downs throughout. Because you believe they work. Am I right? Of course I am, you have taken this position.

Now look at this chart again closely. Masks were mandated July 6 in PA. Can you find that date on the little graph below? I'm sure you can. After the mask mandate, what happened to the # of cases?

Let's take this really really slowly. See how they "increase"....those little lines increase? That means after July 6, cases went up. Immediately after. Then they subsided a little...and now they are drastically increasing to 5X the level we saw that month.

Do you think masks worked?

123245877_10221455830677697_5102629558739835473_n.jpg


Let's look at that little graph thingy again shall we? Do you know what happened on April 1? No?? I'll remind you. That's the date PA issued the state-wide stay at home order.

The statewide stay-at-home order takes effect at 8 p.m. today, Wednesday, April 1, 2020, and will continue until April 30. All Pennsylvania schools will remain closed until further notice and non-life-sustaining business closures remain in effect.

Can you plot with your little finger April 1 on that little graph thingy? I'm sure you can. Can you tell me what happened to cases AFTER April 1?

Holy cow...just like after the mask mandate...cases increased...and are now increasing again.

123245877_10221455830677697_5102629558739835473_n.jpg


Care to share how you look at those graphs while simultaneously saying in PA masks and lock downs worked?

Or are you ready to admit...it's a virus and it will take its course, no matter what?

You do realize there is a 1-2 week incubation period for Covid-19, right? There is a rather large duration of time between infection and symptoms.

Most of the symptomatic people in the case counts in April were most likely infected in the second half of March.

You have to look at about the middle of April onward to judge the effectiveness of the lockdown, and there was a clear downward trajectory in new cases.
 
Put up the same graphs for ND, SD and Wyoming and ask yourself how no restrictions worked. What don’t you understand about 6.5 times as many deaths per pop.?

I already did. Flogged don't read good: https://steelernationforums.com/sho...navirus-thread&p=760009&viewfull=1#post760009

When you compare those states to PA, what do you see regarding cases? Are masks and lockdowns working?

But now you are talking about deaths. Are you now switching your argument from mask wearing and lockdowns don't prevent cases, but not having them makes the death rates higher?????

Deaths per 1M population:

PA = 692
ND = 672
SD = 469
Wyoming = 150

6.5 times as many deaths per population?? Hint: Those numbers above are factored on population. I.e., Wyoming has had 87 COVID deaths...................................................................South Dakota has had 415....................................
 
My 94 year young step dad has the Rona. He has been in a rehab/nursing home since about mid-September. He is doing ok so far, slight cough but otherwise asymptomatic and joking with the staff. Hopefully he whips this and gets the hell out of there as nobody has been able to visit him, the staff all wear PPE and he still gets the Rona. How can that be? I thought the masks would have protected him.
 
You do realize there is a 1-2 week incubation period for Covid-19, right? There is a rather large duration of time between infection and symptoms.

Most of the symptomatic people in the case counts in April were most likely infected in the second half of March.

You have to look at about the middle of April onward to judge the effectiveness of the lockdown, and there was a clear downward trajectory in new cases.

The lockdown has been in effect since April 1. The face mask mandate since July 6.

See the rise in cases to the right? You want to say wearing masks and the lockdown have been effective, given the data presented in front of you? Can you show the decrease in cases after those dates? I believe 2 weeks has substantially passed since April 1?

123284869_10221459304204533_3201982079452421452_n.jpg


There were 2,492 cases in PA on October 26

There were 2,270 cases in PA on April 30...4 weeks after the April 1 lock down.
 
The true facts for deaths per million people over the last seven months:

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavi...othing=7&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

The chart is interactive and can be set up as you want. As of yesterday, the death rate in the United States was 2.37 per million of population, BELOW that for Belgium, Spain, Mexico, Hungary, United Kingdom, Netherlands, and Italy ... and lookee- here, well above that of Sweden, which has a mortality rate of just 0.25 persons for every million people.

So the United States of Lockdowns is doing better than the United Lockdown Kingdom, Lockdown Spain, Lockdown Italy and much, much worse than "**** the lockdown" Sweden.

Conclusion 1: Lockdowns don't do a ******* thing to stop a virus.
Conclusion 2: Orange Man Bad

"Follow the science ... unless it helps Trump, then **** the science."
- ******* (D)ims
 
The lockdown has been in effect since April 1. The face mask mandate since July 6.

See the rise in cases to the right? You want to say wearing masks and the lockdown have been effective, given the data presented in front of you? Can you show the decrease in cases after those dates? I believe 2 weeks has substantially passed since April 1?

123284869_10221459304204533_3201982079452421452_n.jpg


There were 2,492 cases in PA on October 26

There were 2,270 cases in PA on April 30...4 weeks after the April 1 lock down.

But look how the Chinese flu is ravaging Sweden, which rejected the lockdown for businesses and imposed it only for large gatherings. I mean, good God, Sweden had three people die of Chinese flu yesterday and its mortality rate has exploded from the 0.24 for every million of population as of August 2, 2020 to 0.25 for every million yesterday!! Ahhh, the carnage!!

https://ourworldindata.org/coronavi...othing=7&pickerMetric=location&pickerSort=asc

SHUT IT DOWN!! Flog hates traffic. He has not missed a paycheck, probably earns more than ever, and continues to leech off those paying, but SHUT IT DOWN!! Flog does not like traffic.
 
The lockdown has been in effect since April 1. The face mask mandate since July 6.

See the rise in cases to the right? You want to say wearing masks and the lockdown have been effective, given the data presented in front of you? Can you show the decrease in cases after those dates? I believe 2 weeks has substantially passed since April 1?

123284869_10221459304204533_3201982079452421452_n.jpg


There were 2,492 cases in PA on October 26

There were 2,270 cases in PA on April 30...4 weeks after the April 1 lock down.

Pennsylvania has not been in full lockdown for months now. Not sure why you're acting like it is.

There were clearly less new cases within a month after the lockdown was put into effect.

A lockdown does not prevent people already infected from getting sick, but it clearly slowed the spread.

The new surge in cases is a product of the virus continuing to circulate through the population amid colder weather.
 
Pennsylvania has not been in full lockdown for months now. Not sure why you're acting like it is.

There were clearly less new cases within a month after the lockdown was put into effect.

A lockdown does not prevent people already infected from getting sick, but it clearly slowed the spread.

The new surge in cases is a product of the virus continuing to circulate through the population amid colder weather.

Follow me here. It’s a ******* virus. If one, ONE ******* person has it. ONE!!!!! There will be more. Have ******* hard is this to comprehend. The ONLY way is the WORLD. The ******* WORLD ***** down for a month. No “essential” people. Everyone goes in a bubble. Is that ******* a possibility!!!! NO!!!!!

This isn’t a life extension event!!!!! **** sack. Well maybe if we didn’t go out as much or wore a condom, blah blah blah. The ******* twatness is extensive. ONE!!!!
 
ALSO!!!! **** I’m pissed. Go back to the mask graph statement. Do you have any ******* idea the substantial increase in testing that is currently being done today vs a mont ago, two, three!!! Personal ******* experience on my job it’s a 1000% higher!!!!! But yeah that has no impact.
 
My 94 year young step dad has the Rona. He has been in a rehab/nursing home since about mid-September. He is doing ok so far, slight cough but otherwise asymptomatic and joking with the staff. Hopefully he whips this and gets the hell out of there as nobody has been able to visit him, the staff all wear PPE and he still gets the Rona. How can that be? I thought the masks would have protected him.


Staff do not get it from them. Staff bring it in. Fact. Them wearing PPe is what is protecting residents
 
Pennsylvania has not been in full lockdown for months now. Not sure why you're acting like it is.

There were clearly less new cases within a month after the lockdown was put into effect.

A lockdown does not prevent people already infected from getting sick, but it clearly slowed the spread.

The new surge in cases is a product of the virus continuing to circulate through the population amid colder weather.

This folks is the "science" the Left adheres to....

Mask and lockdowns work!!!

Cases rise. "But see, it works!"

You can't make this **** up.

I literally cannot fathom how you can write with a straight face...when PA is getting hit as hard now as it did in April...when lockdowns and mask mandates were implemented and are still in place...and say masks and lockdowns work. The state has been under a mask + lockdown combined approach since July 6.....and...

April 30 - 2,270 cases
October 26 - 2,492 cases


Tell me again how lockdowns and masks are working when the state has as many daily cases now as it did in April?

It's very clear there's been no impact.
 
Floggy, Punx and the rest aren't gonna like this, nope, no sir.

REALLY encourage everyone to open the actual link and click on the link to studies done around the world (dozens) showing the ineffectiveness of masks. We are being duped and it is political theater.

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Twelve Graphs That Show Mask Mandates Are Ineffective in Stopping Coronavirus

No matter how strictly mask laws are enforced nor the level of mask compliance the population follows, cases all fall and rise around the same time.

Masks have become a political tool and a talisman. When COVID-19 hit, governments panicked and created enormous fear. The Centers for Disease Control currently estimates a COVID-19 survival rate of 99.99 percent for people younger than 50, but the damage created by the panic was too great to undo.

It is likely that some politicians eventually realized their mistake and needed a way to back-pedal without admitting their lockdowns were a policy disaster. Their solution was for people to put any old piece of cloth across their face and magically believe that it’s okay to go out shopping again.

Masks are not merely a small inconvenience. They have inadvertently become a key impediment to returning to a more normal life, a desirable goal for those seeking to twist the pandemic for political and electoral purposes.

Masks dehumanize us, and ironically serve as a constant reminder that we should be afraid. People can now be spotted wearing masks while camping by themselves in the woods or on a solo sailing trip. They have become a cruel device on young children everywhere, kindergarten students covered by masks and isolated by Plexiglas, struggling to understand the social expressions of their peers. Face coverings are causing real harm to the American psyche, provide little to no medical benefit, and distract us from more important health policy issues.

The mask dogma had many cracks in it from the start. For one, the U.S. surgeon general and the Centers for Disease Control both previously said that “masks are NOT effective in preventing [the] general public from catching coronavirus,” so they were already starting with a credibility deficit. Furthermore, many officials have been frequently caught without masks when they think the cameras are off them. Dr. Anthony Fauci, for example, has been caught doing this multiple times.

faucimask.jpg


Chicago’s mayor and local media were all caught taking off their masks and violating social distancing as soon as a press conference ended. This was caught in a now deleted YouTube video that was shared by a now deleted Twitter account after being retweeted more than 26,000 times. As of the date of this publication, it is still available to view in a crude video of a video that has yet to be deleted on YouTube.

Clearly, some people do not want you to see what politicians do behind the scenes. Pennsylvania Gov. Tom Wolf, a strong advocate for mandatory masking, was caught off camera laughing about how wearing masks is an act of “political theater.”

Faking ‘Science’ to Achieve Political Goals

These same politicians and health officials are so desperate to make people believe in masks that they doctor charts to make their case, even when their own data actually undermines them. So what is the actual science behind masks? Let’s begin by reviewing the leading scientific studies.

The Centre for Evidence-Based Medicine at Oxford University summarized six international studies which “showed that masks alone have no significant effect in interrupting the spread of ILI or influenza in the general population, nor in healthcare workers.” Oxford went on to say that “that despite two decades of pandemic preparedness, there is considerable uncertainty as to the value of wearing masks.” They prophetically warned that this has “left the field wide open for the play of opinions, radical views and political influence.”

A study of health-care workers in more than 1,600 hospitals showed that cloth masks only filtered out 3 percent of particles. An article in the New England Journal of Medicine stated, “[W]earing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection” and that “[T]he desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.”

There are many other credible studies showing lack of mask efficacy, such as studies published in the National Center for Biotechnology Information, Cambridge University Press, Oxford Clinical Infectious Diseases, and Influenza Journal, just to name a few.

Studies do show masks can help in the case of direct respiratory droplets, which would matter if somebody is coughing, breathing, or sneezing directly on your face. That happens normally in a tight and highly confined space.

But the plentiful evidence we have indicates masks would not meaningfully help with aerosol transmission, where two people are just in the same area, or even the same room. This is because the two people end up breathing the same air, with or without a mask, as visually demonstrated in this video.

Now for Graphs about International Mask Mandates

Historical scientific studies do not make a compelling case that universal masking would meaningfully help, so let’s explore real-world situations to see where data leads us.

Austria was one of the first governments to require masks, and it did so about 10 days after its cases began to go down. The level of downtrend did not change or improve after masks were required. After the nation’s people wearing masks for an extended period, cases are currently four times where they were when Austria mandated masks, and cases continue to climb.

Austria-768x432.jpeg


Germany mandated masks about halfway down its original recovery. Their cases are now similarly climbing quickly.

Germany-768x432.jpeg


The French now have around 1,000 percent more daily cases they had when they mandated masks, despite having one of the highest mask compliance levels in the world.

France-768x432.jpeg


Spain was not far behind its French neighbor with a mandate. Spain required masks when cases were near zero and has the highest compliance with mask-wearing in all Europe. Now Spain is at around 1,500 percent the level of cases compared to when it mandated masks.

Spain-768x432.jpeg


After three months of requiring masks, the United Kingdom is at around 1,500 percent more cases despite having one of the highest mask compliance records in Europe.

UK-768x432.jpeg
 
Cont'd to the post above...........

---------------------

Belgium required masks shortly after the British did, and now possibly has the highest rate of cases in the world.

Belgium-768x432.jpeg


Italy had extremely high levels of mask-wearing despite no national mandate. Recently skyrocketing cases finally compelled them to create one of the strictest mask laws in the world, but the results have predictably failed to slow the rise in coronavirus cases. In fact, cases skyrocketed immediately after the mask mandate went into effect.

Italy-768x432.jpeg


Similar results have been found in Ireland, Portugal, Israel, and many other countries. No matter how strictly mask laws are enforced nor the level of mask compliance the population follows, cases all fall and rise around the same time.

European-comparison-768x432.jpeg


How about the United States? Americans have proven to be highly compliant with mask wearing, even higher than the Germans.

Mask-compliance-rates.png


It is therefore no surprise that the same trends found in Europe are also found in U.S. states. For example, California required masks in June but cases still went up by more than 300 percent and the state remains heavily locked down four months later with still higher cases.

California-768x432.jpeg


Hawaii suffered one of the most economically devastating lockdowns of all the U.S. states. It was also an early mover on mandating masks both indoors and outdoors, but cases still went up by almost 1,000 percent.

Hawaii-768x432.jpeg


With and without mask mandates, Texas and Georgia followed nearly identical case development.

Texas-vs-Georgia-768x432.jpeg


For those more interested in comparing deaths than cases, we again don’t see a pattern of masks meaningfully helping.

Deaths-NY-TX-GA-Sweden-768x432.jpeg


Why Don’t Masks Work?

Why don’t masks work on the general public? For one, if you read the fine print on most consumer masks you will see something along the line of “not intended for medical purposes and has not been tested to reduce the transmission of disease.” Masks can work well when they’re fully sealed, properly fitted, changed often, and have a filter designed for virus-sized particles. This represents none of the common masks available on the consumer market, making universal masking much more of a confidence trick than a medical solution.

If we actually wanted effective masks, then manufacturers should be conducting scientific tests evaluating masks specifically for their ability to reduce the spread of coronavirus. The Food and Drug Administration and CDC should be making recommendations on which masks to use and approving masks based on their scientific efficacy rather than promoting the wrapping of any piece of miscellaneous cloth around your face.

Effective masks, if they exist, should then be distributed to highly vulnerable groups for use only in rare and extenuating circumstances. There would be little point for the population at large to wear masks all the time because while focused protection may be possible, it is not possible to eradicate the virus at this point or stop its spread.

Our universal use of unscientific face coverings is therefore closer to medieval superstition than it is to science, but many powerful institutions have too much political capital invested in the mask narrative at this point, so the dogma is perpetuated. The narrative says that if cases go down it’s because masks succeeded. It says that if cases go up it’s because masks succeeded in preventing more cases. The narrative simply assumes rather than proves that masks work, despite overwhelming scientific evidence to the contrary.

The narrative further ignores places like Sweden and Georgia, which never required masks in the first place, and it suppresses new scientific evidence if it doesn’t support desired political results, such as data from the world’s only randomized trial investigating if masks actually protect from COVID-19. Even a Nobel laureate has been canceled because his COVID charts and data were found to be undesirable.

History does not bode well for times that politics meddles with science. Martin Kulldorff, a professor at Harvard Medical School and a leader in disease surveillance methods and infectious disease outbreaks, describes the current COVID scientific environment this way: “After 300 years, the Age of Enlightenment has ended.”

In the end, it will be the loss of credibility in our scientific institutions, and the unnecessary division they have sowed among us, for which masks will be remembered.
 
I swear I seen the same post and graphs months ago .....but masks. So many be testing?
 
I swear I seen the same post and graphs months ago .....but masks. So many be testing?

Different graphs from different states. Different reports. I posted those as well.

More and more are waking up and calling this out. The data is starting to expose the lies.
 
My point was more we keep going round robin with this. “Here is proof, hahhh but,...here is more proof,...nahh
 
My point was more we keep going round robin with this. “Here is proof, hahhh but,...here is more proof,...nahh

We need to burn **** down and riot I guess.
 
The problem with masks / mandates / lockdowns is people and enforcement. People dont follow the guidelines and no on enforces them so all the graphs about mandates and what not are useless. People have a sense of entitlement to do whatever they want and screw everyone else. PA at least in my area had been doing very well and I think people got lax and next thing you know we are worse off than we had been You goto walmart or wherever and maybe 60% of people are wearing masks or have them on right. Giant Eagle around here is pretty strict getting in the store, but once you get in the store people do what they want. Its not going to kill people wearing a mask shopping for an hour, it doesnt infringe on your freedom, and you should respect your fellow people. I do not think we should goto another lockdown, we are already beyond that point. People just need to be more respectful and mindful of others regardless of your beliefs.
 
This folks is the "science" the Left adheres to....

Mask and lockdowns work!!!

Cases rise. "But see, it works!"

You can't make this **** up.

I literally cannot fathom how you can write with a straight face...when PA is getting hit as hard now as it did in April...when lockdowns and mask mandates were implemented and are still in place...and say masks and lockdowns work. The state has been under a mask + lockdown combined approach since July 6.....and...

April 30 - 2,270 cases
October 26 - 2,492 cases


Tell me again how lockdowns and masks are working when the state has as many daily cases now as it did in April?

It's very clear there's been no impact.

Again, you're implying that all the restrictions put in place in April have been in place this entire time when that is not even remotely true. Much of them were lifted by June.

Regarding mask mandates, they're proving useless, not because they do not work, but because they're impossible to enforce and too many people either refuse to wear them or wear them consistently.


It's difficult to contain a pandemic in relatively free and open societies.

One reason China seems to have such control of it is that its people have no rights. The government forces them into isolation and compliance at gunpoint.
 
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Coming soon to a country near you
yeah, but you can still be different online.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk
 
yeah, but you can still be different online.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

For a little while. Until big brother/tech starts to target the traitors to the socialist/communist state. **** there won't be many left in the SN politics section..
 
Regarding mask mandates, they're proving useless, not because they do not work, but because they're impossible to enforce and too many people either refuse to wear them or wear them consistently.
It's difficult to contain a pandemic in relatively free and open societies.


And again you continue to obstinate. The only purpose of masks and shut downs is to slow the spread of the virus, and even if we had shutdown completely since March, it would still be lingering. You do realize that it's a virus, don't you?

A better course of thought might be coming up with ways to eradicate the virus, because well, it is a virus.
 
The problem with masks / mandates / lockdowns is people and enforcement.

The problem with masks is they don't work. See below.

Again, you're implying that all the restrictions put in place in April have been in place this entire time when that is not even remotely true. Much of them were lifted by June.

Regarding mask mandates, they're proving useless, not because they do not work, but because they're impossible to enforce and too many people either refuse to wear them or wear them consistently.

It's difficult to contain a pandemic in relatively free and open societies.

One reason China seems to have such control of it is that its people have no rights. The government forces them into isolation and compliance at gunpoint.

China isn't telling us everything. Shocking to see Liberals believe they are. Liberals got themselves some real new love for the Commies.

China has never given us accurate reporting or data. Hidden videos smuggled out of the country showed body bags stacked 3 and 4 feet high on sidewalks outside hospitals. Anyone saying they know anything about what is going on in China is a fool for even speaking about it. We don't know. They tell us they have it under control.

Yeah, ok.

Regarding PA, I'm not saying these were in place the whole time. And they weren't 100% followed enforced. But the mandates for masks got more severe as the year progressed and their lock downs have been more severe than other states - even closing liquor stores at one point.

The fact you want to keep dismissing is the obvious - IF the masks and lockdowns had any impact, we would see a measurable result. PA has as many cases now as they did in April. Spin all you want man...there's no dancing away from that fact. ZERO impact. Even if you contend the drop of wave 1 was due to masks/mandates (which was far more likely the virus taking it's normal bell curve pattern), why is there an uptick now? Hmmm? Masks don't work maybe? Lockdowns aren't working? Hmmm.

Suggest you also look back at this post and the one after. Masks aren't having a measurable impact anywhere. PA looks just like the rest of them. https://www.steelernationforums.com...navirus-thread&p=760151&viewfull=1#post760151

---------------

You both need to follow the science (as Joe Biden says). This is PROVEN but MSM won't report it. Cloth masks and regular surgical masks ONLY stop the spread of 3% of COVID particles and those are the large droplets. 97% passes through. COVID is spread by aerosols.. It passes right through our masks. See the dozens of links in the article posted on the prior page.

A study of health-care workers in more than 1,600 hospitals showed that cloth masks only filtered out 3 percent of particles. An article in the New England Journal of Medicine stated, “[W]earing a mask outside health care facilities offers little, if any, protection from infection” and that “[T]he desire for widespread masking is a reflexive reaction to anxiety over the pandemic.”

THAT is why the mask mandates don't work. Because the masks don't work. You can gyrate and genuflect all you want.

There is literally no locale I've seen where there is measurable data to show when mask mandates were implemented and we saw measurable positive results. Because...masks...don't work.

It's a virus. It will take its bell curve course - mask mandates and lock downs be damned.
 
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