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Steelers 3'rd All Time Best QB Per NFL.COM

wig said:
So, there you have it. I put Neil, who still makes me a little sick, over Stewart in the greater scheme of things. However I'll always remember Stewart as "Slash" and admittedly that subjectifies my opinion quite a bit. He should never have become a full time QB. He would have been a much more loved Steeler had he remained a WR / utility player.
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The problem is that 100% of the people, including the owner, wanted him at QB. I'm sure you did as well at the time. He was a 2nd round pick and O'Donnell had left. Not moving him to QB would have caused huge issues. They had no one else at the time and he was drafted to play QB. "Slash" is not an NFL position. He refused to play WR at times. Can you imagine the uproar if Cowher never let him play QB? It had to happen. Kordell was never going to be slash. He would have left to play QB somewhere else if he didn't play QB for the Steelers.

Also, if Cowher didn't let him play QB I imagine the debate would be "Damn you Cowher, Kordell would have been a great QB. He just didn't have the chance."
 
They draft Pennington, it is a very good chance they never draft Ben. Pennington never won anything. I certainly would take the way it all panned out.
 
By the way, while I am not old enough to remember him, I know some of the stories. Bobby Layne should probably be #3.
 
wig said:
1) Ben Roethlisberger (Terry got 4 rings it's true, but he had that defense... Dear GOD that defense...)
2) Terry Bradshaw
3) Neil O'Donnel
4) Kordell Stewart
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Thing is, Bradshaw has more rings but things didn't really click for him until about five years in while Ben went 14-1 in his rookie year.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Thing is, Bradshaw has more rings but things didn't really click for him until about five years in while Ben went 14-1 in his rookie year.
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You mean the 1-13 talentless team Bradshaw took over. Would have loved to see todays QB try to make it in the 70s when the offenses were not allowed to play the pass easy NFL like today.
 
Steelbar said:
You mean the 1-13 talentless team Bradshaw took over. Would have loved to see todays QB try to make it in the 70s when the offenses were not allowed to play the pass easy NFL like today.
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This. Even in today's easier NFL Ben sucked in 2 SBs and was just average in the other. Bradshaw played in a era hostile to QBs and won 4 SBs with very good QB play. Ben plays during a time where QBs are babied and won 2 SBs while being one of the worst QBs in super bowl history and the other where he play ok. The 08 team had a great defense and Ben did very little against one of the worst defenses to every make a SB. The offense scored 20 points. Then they were out gunned by GB. Again Ben plays average. 2 Tds and 2 picks. He has more Ints in the SBs than he does TDs. I love Ben but he isn't at the same level as Bradshaw.
 
Vader said:
This. Even in today's easier NFL Ben sucked in 2 SBs and was just average in the other. Bradshaw played in a era hostile to QBs and won 4 SBs with very good QB play. Ben plays during a time where QBs are babied and won 2 SBs while being one of the worst QBs in super bowl history and the other where he play ok. The 08 team had a great defense and Ben did very little against one of the worst defenses to every make a SB. The offense scored 20 points. Then they were out gunned by GB. Again Ben plays average. 2 Tds and 2 picks. He has more Ints in the SBs than he does TDs. I love Ben but he isn't at the same level as Bradshaw.
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Sorry Vader, but I call a small level of nostalgia clouding reality. I remember the Rams game and Bradshaw had 2-3 turnovers in the first ******* half. If they weren't playing a rookie QB, there's no way they come back to win that game in 1980...
 
Furthermore:

Wouldn't the 3rd best QB be Ben or Bradshaw since we had Unitas?
 
Vader said:
This. Even in today's easier NFL Ben sucked in 2 SBs and was just average in the other. Bradshaw played in a era hostile to QBs and won 4 SBs with very good QB play. Ben plays during a time where QBs are babied and won 2 SBs while being one of the worst QBs in super bowl history and the other where he play ok. The 08 team had a great defense and Ben did very little against one of the worst defenses to every make a SB. The offense scored 20 points. Then they were out gunned by GB. Again Ben plays average. 2 Tds and 2 picks. He has more Ints in the SBs than he does TDs. I love Ben but he isn't at the same level as Bradshaw.
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Bradshaw and Roethlisberger both benefited from a great defense although he didn't immediately step into that situation like Ben did. Again though, the fact is that it took Bradshaw five years to nail down the starting QB job.
 
meh... kordell wasn't a good passer, and his career tanked when he tried to quit running and just throw from the pocket. his legs forced teams to spy him and that took away the guys they could use on bettis. when they moved the second safety up that opened up easier throws downfield... kordell just needed to be mentally strong enough to tell the detractors to **** off and not try to conform to what he couldn't do. He wasn't and that cost him success. The biggest thing people should key on was he was incredibly accurate in practice, but fired balls into the ground in gameplay... he tried so hard to keep from getting intercepted that he would throw balls that were too hard to catch, dislocating a couple wideouts fingers along the way... kordell was the posterboy for unclutch play from mental weakness
 
diver said:
By the way, while I am not old enough to remember him, I know some of the stories. Bobby Layne should probably be #3.
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BL was a washed up vet by his days here. Regardless, I wouldn't take him in his prime over the other two
 
madinsomniac said:
BL was a washed up vet by his days here. Regardless, I wouldn't take him in his prime over the other two
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I'd take him over Kordell though. :beer:
 
Cope said:
Sorry Vader, but I call a small level of nostalgia clouding reality. I remember the Rams game and Bradshaw had 2-3 turnovers in the first ******* half. If they weren't playing a rookie QB, there's no way they come back to win that game in 1980...
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I'll take the Rams game any day over the Seachicken game Ben threw up. 22 QB rating with a horrible 10 of 22 for 166 yards is horrible QB play. If not for the defense holding the best offense in the NFL to 10 points Ben doesn't sniff a SB win. Bradshaw never had that bad of a SB. Interesting that the Steel Curtain gave up 19 points (to a rookie QB) and Bradshaw scored 31 while Ben didn't do **** against the ******* Seachickens in any half. He threw ducks all game. How is that better than Bradshaw?
 
You're right, Vader. I did want Stewart at QB because I saw what he could do in 97. We all did. He was among the most dangerous offensive players in the league that year. His combined rushing/passing TD totals were very impressive, if unorthodox for a traditional QB. It was in 98 that he started to decline statistically for reasons that I've outlined. Now, I'm sure there are a great deal MORE and BETTER reasons. I doubt I can summarize very specifically everything that went wrong with Stewart's QB career, but the fact remains that he was never quite as bad as everyone wants to remember him and it is equally clear that he was obviously never as good as he was in that initial year. It's true, as far as QB is concerned he was a 1 year wonder. After that he was merely mediocre.

I would agree that he wasn't mentally tough enough to deal with the pressures and expectations of the positions and the fans. I think he wanted too much to be loved and QB for the Pittsburgh Steelers isn't the place for that. If history has taught anything it's that the Steeler's QB position is a lonely place reserved for tough S.O.B.s who understand that the world can turn on you pretty damn quick. Tommy Maddox went from being the golden boy everyone loved to having trash dumped on his lawn. That's pretty cold, particularly considering the transition happened largely in part due to a neck injury that messed up his head more than anything.

Nope, I did love Stewart, but he wasn't tough enough to deal with that. Not by a long shot.
 
Stewart was good his first season because they him be himself and do what he did and no one knew what that might be at any given moment. Then they tried to make him into a drop-back passer, which wasn't his game, and defenses figured him out pretty quick, not that he could read defenses anyway. Having a different OC almost every year didn't help either. After a year here we could all understand why Buddy Ryan tried to punch Kevin Gilbride on the sideline in Chicago.
 
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You don't get QB rating points for rushing for first downs and rushing TDs. Ben never had a multiple turnover game in any Superbowl. I never heard my dad swear so much in my live then Bradshaw's first 3 QTRs vs the Rams. They were down at the half, and fortunately he had a good 4th QTR, but he also had way better talent around him on offense than Ben did in SB XL. If Ben wins on the last drive vs GB, then there's a much different view of him. He'd have Montana status with 2 GW SB drives. Though he did pull off the game winning drive for 2008. Pretty clutch if you ask me, and he should have been the SB MVP.

Ben also had no losses in the regular season his rookie year and won a SB in his second year. Terry was still trying to fight to be the starter his first 5 years in the league.

I'm just asking for fairness in this assessment. Sure Bradshaw was the better over all Big Game QB, but he also had his warts (like his 1 to 1 TD to INT ratio).
 
Terry's legacy resides in the fact that he was the best big game QB of all time. He was clutch when the pressure was on.

And for what its worth SB9 wasn't exactly an offensive explosion.
 
Wingman said:
I thought he was a better player than O dummel and was sorry we made the change, neil looked like flacco on retard pills
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That makes one of you. Brister sucked.
 
O'Donnell got the 1995 team to the Super Bowl -- but above him even if his star burned out fast after Ben came along -- TOMMY MADDOX would have gotten the 2001 & 1994 teams to the Super Bowl -- and good enough for the 95 & 96 teams too. He was betrayed by that horrid secondary in 2002 when his passing was our first legit passing game since 1982.

And quite frankly BOBBY LAYNE brought more success than most realize in late 50s & early 60s. He retired one year too early else Steelers had a real chance at 63 Championship
 
The Broncos were still a running team that (1) circumvented the salary cap &(2) Brister winning a Super Bowl before Cowher means nothing. He also won more Super Bowls than Jim Kelly and Dan Marino combined. What's your point?

That you think higher of Trent Dilfer than Tony Dungy????
 
Cope said:
Ben never had a multiple turnover game in any Superbowl.
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What? Those two picks against Seattle nor those two picks against GB count? Hell he's had multiple TO games in 2 out of the 3 SBs.

Also all the "ifs" don't matter to me. IF Seattle doesn't have a ton of penalties then Ben is 1-2 in SBs. IF Harrison doesn't return that 100 yard Int. Ben is 0-3 in SBs. Fact is that Ben is not as good as Bradshaw. Ben plays in an arcade era and still only has 2 more Tds than ints in the playoffs.
 
FSF said:
The Broncos were still a running team that (1) circumvented the salary cap &(2) Brister winning a Super Bowl before Cowher means nothing. He also won more Super Bowls than Jim Kelly and Dan Marino combined. What's your point?
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That they should have kept Brister. O'Donnell may have got them to a Super Bowl but the fact that the Jets signed him away for huge money and he sucked while also wrecking their salary cap brought me great joy.
 
I still have Bradshaw higher on my all-time list than Roethlisberger.

Bradshaw was a YPA machine in the playoffs.
 
And personally I still take Ben over Bradshaw to start on this 53 man roster. He's the bigger, more durable QB (though Bradshaw was pretty tough as well). His int to TD percentage is head and shoulders above Bradshaw. Ben's numbers are already better for regular season stats, and if Ben had the 70's D, we'd still be a dynasty with him. Maybe even win that 76 Championship. But definitely would have won that 80' SB vs the rookie QB and Youngblood on a Broken leg...

Good thing is if Ben gets hurt in the playoffs, we can give the game to Bradshaw to clean up. Good problem to have.
 
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