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Special teams, a weakness so far?

C

Coach

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We have zero return game for kickoffs.

Our Punting game remains hot and cold, we could really do better than Berry as his lack of hang time allows for a bigger return, and his short punts cost us field position.
 
Actually coming around to bringing in some competition for Berry,. too inconsistent. Maybe a final cut replacement....
 
slashsteel said:
Actually coming around to bringing in some competition for Berry,. too inconsistent. Maybe a final cut replacement....
Click to expand...

Depending on which punters are cut, Berry could be gone.

Berry is 2nd to last in pre-season stats on Net

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/st...8&type=pre&mode=U&conf=&limit=50&sort=puntnet

Seattle has TWO good punters in Dickson and Ryan.

I took some heat on wanting to draft Dickson in the 5th rounds. Dude is averaging 50 years a punt and 47.3 net with very few returns. Oh well...Ike are you reading? :)

Ryan if cut could be an upgrade. He's a veteran punter.

https://www.footballdb.com/players/jon-ryan-ryanjo03
 
Coach said:
Depending on which punters are cut, Berry could be gone.

Berry is 2nd to last in pre-season stats on Net

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/st...8&type=pre&mode=U&conf=&limit=50&sort=puntnet

Seattle has TWO good punters in Dickson and Ryan.

I took some heat on wanting to draft Dickson in the 5th rounds. Dude is averaging 50 years a punt and 47.3 net with very few returns. Oh well...Ike are you reading? :)

Ryan if cut could be an upgrade. He's a veteran punter.

https://www.footballdb.com/players/jon-ryan-ryanjo03
Click to expand...

Still no need to draft one, someone capable should be there.....
 
Coach said:
Depending on which punters are cut, Berry could be gone.

Berry is 2nd to last in pre-season stats on Net

https://www.footballdb.com/stats/st...8&type=pre&mode=U&conf=&limit=50&sort=puntnet

Seattle has TWO good punters in Dickson and Ryan.

I took some heat on wanting to draft Dickson in the 5th rounds. Dude is averaging 50 years a punt and 47.3 net with very few returns. Oh well...Ike are you reading? :)

Ryan if cut could be an upgrade. He's a veteran punter.

https://www.footballdb.com/players/jon-ryan-ryanjo03
Click to expand...

Sweet!You pimping a punter drafted in the 5th whose only had 3...Count them folks THREE punts!!!! Hey! My guy is avg 50 a kick after 3 of them!!!!

Coach.....get outside and breathe fresh air. Your stale environment is killing you.


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Kick returns, with the new rules, need to be treated as punt returns. We need faster, quicker returners. These plodders we keep putting back there won't hit the 20. It's a new game, adjust and see what Sutton and Quadree can do on KR.

Berry needs to get his head out of his ***. This early in the year last year, he was kicking it out of the stadium. Dude needs to step up.
 
Steelers special teams have been a weakness for about 30 years. Why should this season be any different?
 
Year over year, I don't see where Berry has improved. They should have had competition at camp for him this year. He is not very good.
 
Ike Kelly said:
Sweet!You pimping a punter drafted in the 5th whose only had 3...Count them folks THREE punts!!!! Hey! My guy is avg 50 a kick after 3 of them!!!!

Coach.....get outside and breathe fresh air. Your stale environment is killing you.


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Click to expand...

Dickson averaged 47.4 yards a per punt in this past two season in college. What he's doing in the NFL, despite a small sample size par for his course.

Meanwhile, Berry's play reminds me a bit of my golf game.

Here's a thought to ponder. Let's assume our opponents and us have 10 total returns a game. ( Kickoffs and punts ). What is the net difference going to be in the return game? The Steelers could be as high as 50 yards behind in the return game, enough to move a team into range for a field goal our touchdown, based on special teams play.

Bill Parcells used to call this the hidden yardage battle on special teams.
 
Coach said:
Dickson averaged 47.4 yards a per punt in this past two season in college. What he's doing in the NFL, despite a small sample size par for his course.

Meanwhile, Berry's play reminds me a bit of my golf game.

Here's a thought to ponder. Let's assume our opponents and us have 10 total returns a game. ( Kickoffs and punts ). What is the net difference going to be in the return game? The Steelers could be as high as 50 yards behind in the return game, enough to move a team into range for a field goal our touchdown, based on special teams play.

Bill Parcells used to call this the hidden yardage battle on special teams.
Click to expand...

We all know your love for dick son

:th_balls:

but focus Coach nobody wants to spend a draft pick on a punter

even you admitted there should be options out there to bring in, and named them..........
 
slashsteel said:
We all know your love for dick son

:th_balls:

but focus Coach nobody wants to spend a draft pick on a punter

even you admitted there should be options out there to bring in, and named them..........
Click to expand...

Slash,

While I'm not for drafting long snappers, I do think a very good punter is worth a draft pick.

Put it to you this way, Allen ( 5th round pick ) and Frazier ( 7th round pick ) are not making this team. Would you rather have drafted the leading punter in the pre-season or part ways with one of these cut jobs?

There is also the financial side. A rookie punter would save the team over a million on the salary cap for several years.

Also, do you think post #13 is valid? We are going to lose a lot of yardage on special teams over the course of the game.
 
Coach said:
Slash,

While I'm not for drafting long snappers, I do think a very good punter is worth a draft pick.

Put it to you this way, Allen ( 5th round pick ) and Frazier ( 7th round pick ) are not making this team. Would you rather have drafted the leading punter in the pre-season or part ways with one of these cut jobs?

There is also the financial side. A rookie punter would save the team over a million on the salary cap for several years.

Also, do you think post #13 is valid? We are going to lose a lot of yardage on special teams over the course of the game.
Click to expand...

It isn't like you don't have some points. But we don't know what Frazier or Allen's fate is yet. And we don't know if a punter off the street can't yield similar results.

A argument can also be made that D needed help to get it to where it wasn't a liability when it mattered.

With the chips on the line.

So you have two bodies that were drafted to help with run defense.

Because if you can't get off the field on defense, having a upgraded punting game won't matter.......
 
Coach said:
Dickson averaged 47.4 yards a per punt in this past two season in college. What he's doing in the NFL, despite a small sample size par for his course.

Meanwhile, Berry's play reminds me a bit of my golf game.

Here's a thought to ponder. Let's assume our opponents and us have 10 total returns a game. ( Kickoffs and punts ). What is the net difference going to be in the return game? The Steelers could be as high as 50 yards behind in the return game, enough to move a team into range for a field goal our touchdown, based on special teams play.

Bill Parcells used to call this the hidden yardage battle on special teams.
Click to expand...

What was done in college means absolutely nothing now. Nothing.

Here’s another thought to ponder......the kid has made 6 punts. Of those six, all have been in the preseason. Parcells hidden numbers are in applicable nowadays because of the drastic change of the special teams format in the NFL.
 
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ZonaBurgh said:
First thing I thought of when seeing this post was when was the last time we had an above the line special team?
Click to expand...

For the most part our punters and kickers have been decent enough but punt and kickoff coverage has been awful for decades and other than AB who I don't like to risk returning punts, we haven't had jack squat for returners in a long time either. Since the days of Rod Woodson, as mentioned.
 
Ike Kelly said:
What was done in college means absolutely nothing now. Nothing.

Here’s another thought to ponder......the kid has made 6 punts. Of those six, all have been in the preseason. Parcells hidden numbers are in applicable nowadays because of the drastic change of the special teams format in the NFL.
Click to expand...

A punter is a punter. Its the same ball Ike. So why would his last two seasons in college not count? The long snappers are better in the NFL. So are the kick coverage people.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Steelers special teams have been a weakness for about 30 years. Why should this season be any different?
Click to expand...



Has it been that long since Bobby April was ST coach?????????

I think ST could be an improvement and players NEED to want that as well. Maybe ST aren't a head coach priority and thus the solders follow suit.





Salute the nation
 
Ron Burgundy said:
For the most part our punters and kickers have been decent enough but punt and kickoff coverage has been awful for decades and other than AB who I don't like to risk returning punts, we haven't had jack squat for returners in a long time either. Since the days of Rod Woodson, as mentioned.
Click to expand...



WHY is our current coach putting current "has beens" back there???? Take a risk, Coolies guy last year should have been returning punts. We have a couple this year that could return punts and at least one who could return KOs and NOT ******* crescent wrench back there. JEEPERS, take a ******* chance on a positive and NOT just a slow RB. OUR special teams would be a hell of a lot better if our coach took some URGANCY and not lackadazicalness approach to them.




Salute the nation
 
Coach said:
A punter is a punter. Its the same ball Ike. So why would his last two seasons in college not count? The long snappers are better in the NFL. So are the kick coverage people.
Click to expand...

It’s not the same ball. The difference between the two are NFL balls are slightly heavier and are made out of leather. College use composite and leather. Leather pattern is slightly different on the NFL ball as well and some say the ball is just a tad more difficult to throw because of the pattern and laces design. It’s been several years but Wilson’s construction number for the Duke was 1001, while NCAA Div 1 was 1005.

Since you’ve forgotten, let me refresh.....NFL players are faster, bigger and more polished in not only in coverage but also attacking the kick. While true long snappers are better, a punter in college has less time to get the kick away due to the speed of the rush.

Pull out your stop watch and watch YouTube and educate yourself.


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Ike Kelly said:
It’s not the same ball. The difference between the two are NFL balls are slightly heavier and are made out of leather. College use composite and leather. Leather pattern is slightly different on the NFL ball as well and some say the ball is just a tad more difficult to throw because of the pattern and laces design. It’s been several years but Wilson’s construction number for the Duke was 1001, while NCAA Div 1 was 1005.

Since you’ve forgotten, let me refresh.....NFL players are faster, bigger and more polished in not only in coverage but also attacking the kick. While true long snappers are better, a punter in college has less time to get the kick away due to the speed of the rush.

Pull out your stop watch and watch YouTube and educate yourself.


Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app
Click to expand...

Actually, there is little difference between the regulation footballs for the NFL and NCAA. Both are the same length and width dimensions 27.75 to 28.5 in long circumference and 20.75 to 21.25 in short circumference.
Click to expand...

Are NCAA and NFL footballs different sizes?
Answer Not according to Wilson...the official supplier to the NFL since 1941 and also official football of the NCAA: Why do the NFL and NCAA use different size footballs Balls are the same size...only difference is that NCAA balls have the white stripes
Click to expand...


Seattle cut punter Jon Ryan today. He's an upgrade over Berry, and probably could save us some money on the cap.

https://www.footballdb.com/players/jon-ryan-ryanjo03/stats

As for college, your more likely to get a big return, as the talent is uneven, hence punting net is less.

No charge :)
 
Coach said:
Seattle cut punter Jon Ryan today. He's an upgrade over Berry, and probably could save us some money on the cap.

https://www.footballdb.com/players/jon-ryan-ryanjo03/stats

As for college, your more likely to get a big return, as the talent is uneven, hence punting net is less.

No charge :)
Click to expand...

Balls are the same size, if you would read carefully, I never said they weren’t. The materials are different and that’s what important. The grain pattern is different and ball is slightly heavier.

What was Ryan’s contract worth at Seattle? 1.7? What makes you think he would accept a contract amount that’s less than Berry’s cap hit (which is 1.9 tender). Ryan is vet of over 10 years.

Hey if they sign better punter that’s cheaper and consistent I’m all for it. But get your head out of the sand regarding net avg. as the be all for punter reviews. If you understood the position itself, that’s only a piece of the position evaluation. Hang time, directional and touch backs are just as or even more important in today’s NFL.


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Steeler said:
I just don't understand why we are putting Fitz back there. We know what we get with him. Let's see what somebody else has! It's maddening!
Click to expand...

Hopefully with the game Saturday being a dress rehearsal, the KR's used will have the ability to break loose. Don't care if it's Sutton, Henderson, or Juju.
If Toussaint is Tomlins choice to begin the season, kicks will be deliberately short (5 yard line) and they'll consistently start on the 15-20.

No idea what using him last week showed anyone.
 
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