Speaking of inheriting good players...

[POP]

I know a lot has been said about Tomlin inheriting good players from Cowher, and that is who he won a ring with....OK. But Cowher himself didn't exactly start off with chopped liver from what Noll had put together.

Cowher started coaching in 1992.

Here are some of the guys he had to work with right out of the gate.

Rod Woodson
Carnell Lake
Greg Lloyd
Neil O'Donnell
Yancey Thigpen
Barry Foster
Hardy Nickerson
Merril Hoge
Eric Green
Ernie Mills
Carlton Haselrig
Tunch Ilkin
John Jackson
Darren Perry
Duval Love
Gary Anderson
Dermontti Dawson

Guess what folks? That is a collection of talent with 13 pro bowlers on it, PLUS other solid players who were very good.

I think people often assume Cowher build those winning teams from the ground up, but the core of those teams was inherited by BC.

Now the Cowher regime did add many quality players in its own right (and we can debate how much the head coach in Pgh has influence in drafts, ranging from the GM calling the shots, and even the Rooney's themselves being a part of the draft decisions (evidence suggests Rooney made the call to draft Big Ben when Cowher foolishly wanted to draft an OG instead). Among the quality players added on BC's watch....

Polamalu
Chad Brown
Deon Figures
Buckner
Gildon
Kordell Stewart (good pick but used wrong when put at QB)
Lee Flowers
Earl Holmes
Faneca
Deshea Townsend
Joey Porter
Aaron Smith
Plexico Burress
Marvel Smith
Casey Hampton
Kendrell Bell
Chris Hope
Brent Keisel
Ike Taylor
Big Ben (said to be Rooney's choice over BC)
Heath Miller
Kirkland
Steed


Cowher had a lot of good players drafted in his era, but I think the players he inherited were actually even better, over all, with the colossal exception of Ben. 13 Pro Bowlers compared to 6.

 

[CoolieMan]

I doubt anyone here old enough to remember Cowher taking over has ever said Cowher built his team from scratch

 

[slashsteel]

I doubt anyone here old enough to remember Cowher taking over has ever said Cowher built his team from scratch

sounds made up

 

[AggieSteel]

Of course he didn't start from scratch. But the 05 and 08 SB teams didn't have any Noll players. I was 7 when Cowher took over so my formative football watching years were when Cowher was coach. What I distinctly remember was not him building "from scratch" but rather the organization as a whole was brilliant at restocking/reloading. They seemed to have a knack for knowing the right time to let go of an aging player, and seemed to nail the first round pick far more often than not

 

[FordFairLane]

I know a lot has been said about Tomlin inheriting good players from Cowher, and that is who he won a ring with....OK. But Cowher himself didn't exactly start off with chopped liver from what Noll had put together.

Cowher started coaching in 1992.

Here are some of the guys he had to work with right out of the gate.

Rod Woodson
Carnell Lake
Greg Lloyd
Neil O'Donnell
Yancey Thigpen
Barry Foster
Hardy Nickerson
Merril Hoge
Eric Green
Ernie Mills
Carlton Haselrig
Tunch Ilkin
John Jackson
Darren Perry
Duval Love
Gary Anderson
Dermontti Dawson

Guess what folks? That is a collection of talent with 13 pro bowlers on it, PLUS other solid players who were very good.

I think people often assume Cowher build those winning teams from the ground up, but the core of those teams was inherited by BC.

Now the Cowher regime did add many quality players in its own right (and we can debate how much the head coach in Pgh has influence in drafts, ranging from the GM calling the shots, and even the Rooney's themselves being a part of the draft decisions (evidence suggests Rooney made the call to draft Big Ben when Cowher foolishly wanted to draft an OG instead). Among the quality players added on BC's watch....

Polamalu
Chad Brown
Deon Figures
Buckner
Gildon
Kordell Stewart (good pick but used wrong when put at QB)
Lee Flowers
Earl Holmes
Faneca
Deshea Townsend
Joey Porter
Aaron Smith
Plexico Burress
Marvel Smith
Casey Hampton
Kendrell Bell
Chris Hope
Brent Keisel
Ike Taylor
Big Ben (said to be Rooney's choice over BC)
Heath Miller
Kirkland
Steed


Cowher had a lot of good players drafted in his era, but I think the players he inherited were actually even better, over all, with the colossal exception of Ben. 13 Pro Bowlers compared to 6.

How many Pro Bowls did any of those guys have before Cowher? Woodson is the only guy I can think of and in fact I believe most of those guys careers took off right after Cowher took over. Also, Yancey Thigpen was a Charger in 1991 so he was 100% a Cowher guy.

 

[POP]

I doubt anyone here old enough to remember Cowher taking over has ever said Cowher built his team from scratch

It's an ongoing debates across many boards. It goes like this, over and over.

1.) Tomlin hasn't done anything without Cowher's players.

2.) The further Tomlin is from Cowher's players, the worst the team becomes. (Two non-winning seasons in a row.)

3.) Tomlin only won a ring with a team he had little to do with building.

The above points is why it leads some to note that the Cowher 90's teams were mostly built from Noll's regimes.

13 Pro Bowlers?

 

[CoolieMan]

It's an ongoing debates across many boards. It goes like this, over and over.

1.) Tomlin hasn't done anything without Cowher's players.

2.) The further Tomlin is from Cowher's players, the worst the team becomes. (Two non-winning seasons in a row.)

3.) Tomlin only won a ring with a team he had little to do with building.

The above points is why it leads some to note that the Cowher 90's teams were mostly built from Noll's regimes.

13 Pro Bowlers?

this board has not suggested Cowher started from scratch...we don't give a **** what you discussed on lesser message boards

 

[antdrewjosh]

Me and Vader argued this to death.. and if he was here would probably argue with you about it.

 

[CoolieMan]

no one else ever read vader's posts

 

[POP]

this board has not suggested Cowher started from scratch...we don't give a **** what you discussed on lesser message boards

Little angry man strikes again! Who is "we?" Do you have a mouse in your front shirt pocket?

antdrewjosh antdrewjosh said Me and Vader argued this to death.. and if he was here would probably argue with you about it.

No, Coolie said no one ever talked about it.

And Coolie knows everything.

 

[POP]

no one else ever read vader's posts

Yes they did. He had some of the most-read threads in here.

 

[CoolieMan]

for the last time i am neither little nor angry....if i was angry you would be gone....stop throwing out the same lame bullshit douchebag

 

[POP]

for the last time i am neither little nor angry....if i was angry you would be gone....stop throwing out the same lame bullshit douchebag

You claim you're not angry but the consistent tone of your posts suggest otherwise.

And talking about "throwing out the same bullshit" what do you think you do at virtually every post I make?

 

[diver]

Me and Vader argued this to death.. and if he was here would probably argue with you about it.

Yea, this was argued a lot. I don't think anyone said Cowher started from scratch, but they certainly failed to mention the talent Cowher had to start when they mentioned the same with Tomlin.

My point always was who cares? The guy who won is who should get the credit. If I catch a trout using my a lure I got from my brother does that make it his catch?

 

[stillwright]

Yea, this was argued a lot. I don't think anyone said Cowher started from scratch, but they certainly failed to mention the talent Cowher had to start when they mentioned the same with Tomlin.

My point always was who cares? The guy who won is who should get the credit. If I catch a trout using my a lure I got from my brother does that make it his catch?

Some believe Cowher made his inherited players better. Plus he never had a franchise QB until Ben.

 

[stillwright]

Yea, this was argued a lot. I don't think anyone said Cowher started from scratch, but they certainly failed to mention the talent Cowher had to start when they mentioned the same with Tomlin.

My point always was who cares? The guy who won is who should get the credit. If I catch a trout using my a lure I got from my brother does that make it his catch?

Umm. Most likely yes.

 

[CoolieMan]

You claim you're not angry but the consistent tone of your posts suggest otherwise.

And talking about "throwing out the same bullshit" what do you think you do at virtually every post I make?

having to tell you in multiple threads that your are wrong is not the same as going to the "angry" card all the time

or did the US REALLY have a Chaplain running the drone program?

 

[Coach]

I know a lot has been said about Tomlin inheriting good players from Cowher, and that is who he won a ring with....OK. But Cowher himself didn't exactly start off with chopped liver from what Noll had put together.

Cowher started coaching in 1992.

Here are some of the guys he had to work with right out of the gate.

Rod Woodson
Carnell Lake
Greg Lloyd
Neil O'Donnell
Yancey Thigpen
Barry Foster
Hardy Nickerson
Merril Hoge
Eric Green
Ernie Mills
Carlton Haselrig
Tunch Ilkin
John Jackson
Darren Perry
Duval Love
Gary Anderson
Dermontti Dawson

Guess what folks? That is a collection of talent with 13 pro bowlers on it, PLUS other solid players who were very good.

I think people often assume Cowher build those winning teams from the ground up, but the core of those teams was inherited by BC.

Now the Cowher regime did add many quality players in its own right (and we can debate how much the head coach in Pgh has influence in drafts, ranging from the GM calling the shots, and even the Rooney's themselves being a part of the draft decisions (evidence suggests Rooney made the call to draft Big Ben when Cowher foolishly wanted to draft an OG instead). Among the quality players added on BC's watch....

Polamalu
Chad Brown
Deon Figures
Buckner
Gildon
Kordell Stewart (good pick but used wrong when put at QB)
Lee Flowers
Earl Holmes
Faneca
Deshea Townsend
Joey Porter
Aaron Smith
Plexico Burress
Marvel Smith
Casey Hampton
Kendrell Bell
Chris Hope
Brent Keisel
Ike Taylor
Big Ben (said to be Rooney's choice over BC)
Heath Miller
Kirkland
Steed


Cowher had a lot of good players drafted in his era, but I think the players he inherited were actually even better, over all, with the colossal exception of Ben. 13 Pro Bowlers compared to 6.

Cowher drafted D.perry. Many of his best players early on were gone shortly after he guided the team to the Super Bowl. Others were not even on the Super Bowl team that lost to Dallas

 

[POP]

having to tell you in multiple threads that your are wrong is not the same as going to the "angry" card all the time

The angry card is used all the time BECAUSE YOU POST ANGRY THINGS ALL THE TIME.

It's not very complex.

 

[POP]

Cowher drafted D.perry. Many of his best players early on were gone shortly after he guided the team to the Super Bowl. Others were not even on the Super Bowl team that lost to Dallas

Many were gone. A lot of the best ones remained.

http://www.footballdb.com/teams/nfl/pittsburgh-steelers/roster/1995

One way or another, the team kept drafting pretty well after Cowher took over, how much BC influenced the draft, we just don't know.

 

[CoolieMan]

The angry card is used all the time BECAUSE YOU POST ANGRY THINGS ALL THE TIME.

It's not very complex.

only little ******* would take my posts as "angry"

 

[diver]

Umm. Most likely yes.

Heh. I'll have to tell him that the next time I outfish him. He may not appreciaye it, though.

 

[deljzc]

I know a lot has been said about Tomlin inheriting good players from Cowher, and that is who he won a ring with....OK. But Cowher himself didn't exactly start off with chopped liver from what Noll had put together.

Cowher started coaching in 1992.

Here are some of the guys he had to work with right out of the gate.

Rod Woodson
Carnell Lake
Greg Lloyd
Neil O'Donnell
Yancey Thigpen
Barry Foster
Hardy Nickerson
Merril Hoge
Eric Green
Ernie Mills
Carlton Haselrig
Tunch Ilkin
John Jackson
Darren Perry
Duval Love
Gary Anderson
Dermontti Dawson

Guess what folks? That is a collection of talent with 13 pro bowlers on it, PLUS other solid players who were very good.

I think people often assume Cowher build those winning teams from the ground up, but the core of those teams was inherited by BC.

Now the Cowher regime did add many quality players in its own right (and we can debate how much the head coach in Pgh has influence in drafts, ranging from the GM calling the shots, and even the Rooney's themselves being a part of the draft decisions (evidence suggests Rooney made the call to draft Big Ben when Cowher foolishly wanted to draft an OG instead). Among the quality players added on BC's watch....

Polamalu
Chad Brown
Deon Figures
Buckner
Gildon
Kordell Stewart (good pick but used wrong when put at QB)
Lee Flowers
Earl Holmes
Faneca
Deshea Townsend
Joey Porter
Aaron Smith
Plexico Burress
Marvel Smith
Casey Hampton
Kendrell Bell
Chris Hope
Brent Keisel
Ike Taylor
Big Ben (said to be Rooney's choice over BC)
Heath Miller
Kirkland
Steed


Cowher had a lot of good players drafted in his era, but I think the players he inherited were actually even better, over all, with the colossal exception of Ben. 13 Pro Bowlers compared to 6.

I don't think anyone ever said Cowher didn't inherit some good players. Some GREAT players.

What Cowher did was get results. For all that talent Noll missed the playoffs in 6 of his last 7 seasons. His record of the last 7 seasons was 51-61.

When Cowher came in, things drastically changed. Six straight playoff appearances. 64-32 Record. Three final-4's. One Super Bowl loss. It could be argued that Cowher exceeded expectations in ALL SIX of his first seasons with the Steelers. That is crazy good.

That is NOT what happened with Tomlin. The previous six season prior to Tomlin were successful. 63-33 record. Three final-4's. One Super Bowl victory.

Tomlin DID keep it going. No doubt about that. His first 6 seasons were very similar to the last six: Identical 63-33 record. Two final-4's. One Super Bowl victory.

But that is precisely the reason people say he "inherited" the talent. He rode that talent to identical records. Identical post-season results. With arguably the same main key personnel. No improvement. No great over-achievement. No exceeding expectations.

And now we are finally into the "Tomlin" era (of course, he STILL has Roethlisberger) and things are kind of blah. Last 4 seasons are 37-27. Two missed playoffs. 1-1 playoff record. No final-4's. And this just happens to coincide when most of the Cowher talent started to retire/leave the team and Tomlin's talent has to take over. Of course there are going to be questions.

And again, there are really NO comparisons between Cowher and Tomlin that hold water or are truly comparable. Cowher was the superior coach. He turned around the franchise. Recreated the legacy of the Steelers. Made us relevant again. Drafted the greatest QB in our history who, by himself, probably keeps us relevant and competitive for 15 years.

Maybe Tomlin will someday do some of these things. But not yet.

 

[steelermania]

I don't think anyone ever said Cowher didn't inherit some good players. Some GREAT players.

What Cowher did was get results. For all that talent Noll missed the playoffs in 6 of his last 7 seasons. His record of the last 7 seasons was 51-61.

When Cowher came in, things drastically changed. Six straight playoff appearances. 64-32 Record. Three final-4's. One Super Bowl loss. It could be argued that Cowher exceeded expectations in ALL SIX of his first seasons with the Steelers. That is crazy good.

That is NOT what happened with Tomlin. The previous six season prior to Tomlin were successful. 63-33 record. Three final-4's. One Super Bowl victory.

Tomlin DID keep it going. No doubt about that. His first 6 seasons were very similar to the last six: Identical 63-33 record. Two final-4's. One Super Bowl victory.

But that is precisely the reason people say he "inherited" the talent. He rode that talent to identical records. Identical post-season results. With arguably the same main key personnel. No improvement. No great over-achievement. No exceeding expectations.

And now we are finally into the "Tomlin" era (of course, he STILL has Roethlisberger) and things are kind of blah. Last 4 seasons are 37-27. Two missed playoffs. 1-1 playoff record. No final-4's. And this just happens to coincide when most of the Cowher talent started to retire/leave the team and Tomlin's talent has to take over. Of course there are going to be questions.

And again, there are really NO comparisons between Cowher and Tomlin that hold water or are truly comparable. Cowher was the superior coach. He turned around the franchise. Recreated the legacy of the Steelers. Made us relevant again. Drafted the greatest QB in our history who, by himself, probably keeps us relevant and competitive for 15 years.

Maybe Tomlin will someday do some of these things. But not yet.

Agree with most of that, but I'm not giving Cowher much credit for drafting Ben. The Rooneys pushed for Ben, just like they pushed for Franco Harris. I remember Noll saying that the 90-91 teams had the most talent since the 70s, and the press sneering at that. He was right. The problem was Joe Walton. Cowher fixed the problem by bringing in a good OC. The biggest issue I have with those who boost Cowher is that they always want to give him a pass for having crappy quarterbacks. He's a major reason why we had crappy quarterbacks. He thought we could win with those guys, and never pushed to make any moves to get a quality qb in here. He'd have stuck with Maddox if the Rooneys hadn't put their foot down. You can't bash Tombert for Uncle Jarvis, and Hood, and then be quiet about the qbs under Cowher.

 

[POP]

Agree with most of that, but I'm not giving Cowher much credit for drafting Ben. The Rooneys pushed for Ben, just like they pushed for Franco Harris. I remember Noll saying that the 90-91 teams had the most talent since the 70s, and the press sneering at that. He was right. The problem was Joe Walton. Cowher fixed the problem by bringing in a good OC. The biggest issue I have with those who boost Cowher is that they always want to give him a pass for having crappy quarterbacks. He's a major reason why we had crappy quarterbacks. He thought we could win with those guys, and never pushed to make any moves to get a quality qb in here. He'd have stuck with Maddox if the Rooneys hadn't put their foot down. You can't bash Tombert for Uncle Jarvis, and Hood, and then be quiet about the qbs under Cowher.

Money. All of it.