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So...was it game planning or execution?

The TD to Brown was also an audible according to Dejan Kovacevic

For starters, this isn’t even supposed to be a pass play. Ben checks out of the run when he doesn’t like what he sees at the line. So start there.

Next, he stares down AB right from the line.

Next, he sees, as we all did, that Phillip Gaines, the corner on that side, hangs with AB stride for stride. In fact, he’s in a far better position to make that catch than the guy he’s covering.


https://www.dkpittsburghsports.com/2017/10/16/pivotal-play-ben-ab-weird-thing/
 
Executuion wasn't without it's problems like AB's muffed punt and stopping in his route that led to an interception. He made up for and bailed Ben out on what should have been an INT. Sometimes it better to be lucky than good.

As for game planning, although we had some success with it yesterday, I'm not a fan of running the ball on 3rd and long or delayed handoffs on 1st and goal from the 3.
 
As you said you’ve been asking for weeks. So coaching caused the execution to improve? Or regardless of the game plan if the execution by the players are sound, then they will make plays? Which is it?

Coaches don’t perform the plays the players do. As for Jax, the game plan was to be a dual attack with more intermediate throws to spread out the D, but after the pick sixes that game plan was discarded as they played catch-up the rest of the way....with Ben obviously not performing well....and the D on the field way too long. So were the coaches the blame for Ben’s 5 spot, or the players not being gap sound?

As for your slam on Davis, you wouldn’t know but he’s 3rd in tackles on the team, top among all DBs, and tied for 3rd in PD’s among the DBs (#25 and #21 ahead). I didn’t list how many TOL since I can’t find at least two sources that match, but he is at least 1st among DBs. So how is he least playmaker among them?

Your analogy of Davis is more akin to your observations. Once in a long while you throw something that sticks on the wall. The Mitchell opinion seems solid. He needs a talking to, with his antics. He’s lucky he didn’t get tossed for taking out Smiths legs on that broken play.


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What caused the coaching to improve? I'm not there but I can make an educated guess. After trying to get the ball deep to Bryant, and AB a bit too often ( AB is really not a good go route player ), the Steelers who had OL issues early with Hubbard in there ( Deep passes take more time ), probably noticed when Nix and McDonald are in there, they can run the ball well. And a + to this with Ju-Ju on the edge.

The Steelers abandoned the run vs. Jacksonville ( who was very weak defending the run ) in the second half way too early. Had they stuck with it, I think they win that game.

Mistake #1 The game was 7 to 6 at halftime....Why abandon the run so soon? It was a mistake by the coaches. Blake Bortles can't pass for crap. He had less than 100 passing yards that day.

Mistake #2, not dressing Harrison. It's clear he's still very powerful and is a good run defender or spot pass rusher. He's also a leader who inspires and takes no crap. Yet he sat. Tomlin's call. And it was a wrong one.

Mistake #3. Red flagging a pass that hit the grass. Yes, you read that correctly. A blown timeout decision by Tomlin.

Many of the pick sixes happened thanks to WR's playing volleyball or running the wrong way or falling down / getting tripped. Some were good plays by the Jaguars DB's. A TD pass was called back for an OL flag. Not Ben's fault. He did not play well, but at least three of the interceptions were not his fault.

On Mitchell, we agree.

When a safety gets a lot of tackles, you have to see where he makes them. Davis is often tackling his man after he catches it. He has not been a factor on the blitz, Hilton who has more plays on the ball is actually a better tackler and blitzer. Hilton tackles way above his weight class and offers solid intermediate coverage. I like him a lot.

If you want to talk tackles Vince Williams is 2nd best on the team, but he's the weakest starter on defense...

On Davis, he has just 2 passes defended, 0 sacks, and 0 interceptions in 6 games. This is below average for a starter on pace for less than 8 PD's for the year. In his rookie year, Davis had but 5 PD's and two of them have blown interceptions if you want the truth, one was so easy vs the Jet's, most on the forum would have caught it.

By contrast, Watt and Shazier, and have more PD's and they are linebackers. Haden and Burns have more PD's in comparison to Davis and the ball seems to come their way less. A player like Gay who plays fewer snaps is tied with Davis PD's for the year.
 
yesterday I saw it.. he had to hurry finney up and get the ball snapped
Doesn't mean he audibled to it, could've been the play called in from the sideline and he was hurrying Finney up. If it was anything it was more than likely a run/pass option where the defensive look dictates what play is called, not Ben. It's not like he goes up to the line with the full playbook at his dispose and decides what play they are going to do.


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By contrast, Watt and Shazier, and have more PD's and they are linebackers. Haden and Burns have more PD's in comparison to Davis and the ball seems to come their way less. A player like Gay who plays fewer snaps is tied with Davis PD's for the year.

Watt, Shazier, Haden, Burns, or Gay didn't have a PD that stole a TD last game. Davis did.
 
Watt, Shazier, Haden, Burns, or Gay didn't have a PD that stole a TD last game. Davis did.

Not to mention, again, that Coach doesn't fully understand the stats he uses. The number of PD's can be VERY misleading. If you cover your guy perfectly every play and cause the QB to go elsewhere, you will get 0 PD's.

Having a lot of PD's may mean that QB's are targeting you more often because you are not as good as the other guy. Alternatively, you might actually be good. The number of PD's tells you nothing about the quality of the DB.

You have two CB's. One has 50PD's and the other has 3. That, simply, is not enough information to determine which guy you want.
 
Doesn't mean he audibled to it, could've been the play called in from the sideline and he was hurrying Finney up. If it was anything it was more than likely a run/pass option where the defensive look dictates what play is called, not Ben. It's not like he goes up to the line with the full playbook at his dispose and decides what play they are going to do.


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Jeez, Tom. Ben sucks...let it go...

No way should the team not allow him to audible out of a play. That would be stupid as ****. But, just like coaches calling bad plays, a QB will do it too.
 
Jeez, Tom. Ben sucks...let it go...

No way should the team not allow him to audible out of a play. That would be stupid as ****. But, just like coaches calling bad plays, a QB will do it too.
Never know if you're being serious or not, but Tomlin himself has said that Ben does not have free reign to change any play he wants. It's usually a run pass option, that means two plays are called a run and a pass, he calls the play at the LOS based on the defense. So the plays are predetermined. I find it funny the exact same call was called last week, a pass where AB is pretty the only option. ***** about the play calling, Ben threw the ball away, like so many here complain that he does not do, he did it and people still *****.🙄

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What caused the coaching to improve? I'm not there but I can make an educated guess. After trying to get the ball deep to Bryant, and AB a bit too often ( AB is really not a good go route player ), the Steelers who had OL issues early with Hubbard in there ( Deep passes take more time ), probably noticed when Nix and McDonald are in there, they can run the ball well. And a + to this with Ju-Ju on the edge.

The Steelers abandoned the run vs. Jacksonville ( who was very weak defending the run ) in the second half way too early. Had they stuck with it, I think they win that game.

Mistake #1 The game was 7 to 6 at halftime....Why abandon the run so soon? It was a mistake by the coaches. Blake Bortles can't pass for crap. He had less than 100 passing yards that day.

Mistake #2, not dressing Harrison. It's clear he's still very powerful and is a good run defender or spot pass rusher. He's also a leader who inspires and takes no crap. Yet he sat. Tomlin's call. And it was a wrong one.

Mistake #3. Red flagging a pass that hit the grass. Yes, you read that correctly. A blown timeout decision by Tomlin.

Many of the pick sixes happened thanks to WR's playing volleyball or running the wrong way or falling down / getting tripped. Some were good plays by the Jaguars DB's. A TD pass was called back for an OL flag. Not Ben's fault. He did not play well, but at least three of the interceptions were not his fault.

On Mitchell, we agree.

When a safety gets a lot of tackles, you have to see where he makes them. Davis is often tackling his man after he catches it. He has not been a factor on the blitz, Hilton who has more plays on the ball is actually a better tackler and blitzer. Hilton tackles way above his weight class and offers solid intermediate coverage. I like him a lot.

If you want to talk tackles Vince Williams is 2nd best on the team, but he's the weakest starter on defense...

On Davis, he has just 2 passes defended, 0 sacks, and 0 interceptions in 6 games. This is below average for a starter on pace for less than 8 PD's for the year. In his rookie year, Davis had but 5 PD's and two of them have blown interceptions if you want the truth, one was so easy vs the Jet's, most on the forum would have caught it.

By contrast, Watt and Shazier, and have more PD's and they are linebackers. Haden and Burns have more PD's in comparison to Davis and the ball seems to come their way less. A player like Gay who plays fewer snaps is tied with Davis PD's for the year.

As usual, you won’t provide a viable answer to a question. But instead reply WITH a question. Which means either, you don’t know or don’t want to admit you are wrong.....Again. And you are right you are not there in the game planning, nor at practices, so you can’t even make an educated guess what those football minds are doing. As I’ve said before, those coaches have forgotten more than you will ever know of the game. So your opinion is the only guess you make.

Had the execution on offense been as good as it was in KC, the original game plan would have been fine. IF, the was execution by the line, the WR and especially Ben, then we would have scored, built a lead kept Fournette off the field. But, Ben throws 2 Pick 6’s in consecutive pass plays. You are now down two scores. That dictated the game plan change. As for JAX “weak” run D, they have a solid front 4....and obviously the line wasn’t executing the plays running or pass.

Not dressing Harrison, is a numbers game. I think he should be in there, more or less for Dupree who isn’t dominating right now. But the fresher he is the better. And if he feels slighted, all the more reason he’s going to be a terror during the run to the playoffs and beyond hopefully. So maybe MT is smarter than you realize. He has often “saved” James from “himself” in the past during practices.

I don’t recall the failed challenge in Jax, but I know the goal line spot in KC was a good challenge and IMO blown by the official during replay. Tell me coach, you gripe and moan about TO usage by Tomlin for sometime now.....find one game where a lack of timeouts in a half negatively impacted a game final drive. You won’t do the research so I don’t why I ask the question.

Now to your ridiculous comments about Davis’s play. Yeah, Williams is second in tackles, Shazier is first. They are supposed to be leading in tackles that’s the 3/4 scheme run directive. Funnel the ball carrier to the LBs. safeties are the last line of the LBs fail. Hence why Davis and Mitchell have rushing tackles. I know Davis is probably the leading DB with TFL. So that’s where you are seeing the majority of the tackles. Butlers scheme on the backend is “tackle the catch” a LeBeau staple and applies even more now we have press corners in play with Haden. Pass Defense stats. Of course Watt and Shazier has more, because they are dropping into coverage easily since they are so athletic. But those PDs are against RB wheel routes, TEs or underneath crossing routes. Depending on the formation, safeties will cover the release receiver or be over the top for a CB. In Butler’s scheme the safeties are interchangeable, and now that Hilton is making the slot corner his own, he is getting more blitz opportunities because the matchup favors it. Especially with his speed. Which in turn, allows better coverage downfield. You think you know how safeties play the game. But you don’t. As much as you think you do, you are just another arm chair observer like the majority of us who has an opinion. You were wrong about Polamalu and you are so far wrong about Davis. Except you never think you are wrong. Well wake up chuckles you are more often than not. Those other posters with more knowledge (TMC, Del, etc) about the game have shown it time and time again. One thing for sure you are the site’s comedy relief. That is, as so much, very appreciated.




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Not to mention, again, that Coach doesn't fully understand the stats he uses. The number of PD's can be VERY misleading. If you cover your guy perfectly every play and cause the QB to go elsewhere, you will get 0 PD's.

Having a lot of PD's may mean that QB's are targeting you more often because you are not as good as the other guy. Alternatively, you might actually be good. The number of PD's tells you nothing about the quality of the DB.

You have two CB's. One has 50PD's and the other has 3. That, simply, is not enough information to determine which guy you want.

Personally Sean Davis passes the eye test and makes plays. Conversely, Mitchell does not...
 
Personally Sean Davis passes the eye test and makes plays. Conversely, Mitchell does not...

You will never hear Coach make that statement. Ever.

I really don’t know how to read Mitchell now. Last couple years he played the position well enough to be the productive and an enforcer like Ryan Clark was. Yeah there are those head scratcher penalties. Not the aggressive hits during play, which has caused some WR to go alligator arms afterwards, but the personal foul after the whistle plays are what’s maddening. Plus all this celebrating after tackles. I’m over it. Yeah it’s an emotional game, and he tries to pump up the players like a vet should, but come on, do that on a 3rd and short stop or 4th down stop. Not when you do something what you are supposed to.

One thing for sure, he’s intelligent and cerebral when interviewed. You can tell he watches a ton of tape and understands routes and tendencies. Just wish he simmer the emotions until they are really needed.


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You will never hear Coach make that statement. Ever.

I really don’t know how to read Mitchell now. Last couple years he played the position well enough to be the productive and an enforcer like Ryan Clark was. Yeah there are those head scratcher penalties. Not the aggressive hits during play, which has caused some WR to go alligator arms afterwards, but the personal foul after the whistle plays are what’s maddening. Plus all this celebrating after tackles. I’m over it. Yeah it’s an emotional game, and he tries to pump up the players like a vet should, but come on, do that on a 3rd and short stop or 4th down stop. Not when you do something what you are supposed to.

One thing for sure, he’s intelligent and cerebral when interviewed. You can tell he watches a ton of tape and understands routes and tendencies. Just wish he simmer the emotions until they are really needed.


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The eye test alone tells me that JJ Wilcox should be starting over Mitchell. Mitchell is slower, out of control most of the time, and pretty bad in coverage.
Wilcox isn't all-pro but he makes plays and seems to be around the ball. He's a better tackler and more under control. JMO.
 
The 57 yard play yesterday was the longest in 13 games given up by the Steelers. Mitchell plays a big part in that. Juyst by getting everyone set up back there.
 
And the crazy part is we arent close to playing our best ball. The int. when Brown stopped running might have been a TD or at least a big gain. The little things are bogging us down

The crazy part is how people are kidding themselves on this board.

To answer Ike's question: we match up really well with the chiefs as far as their O-line and our D line goes, that made our secondary look way better than it is. And of course helped us stop the run.

Leveon Bell: They took the ball out of Ben's hands and that is a GOOD thing. You don't want Ben throwing more than 25 ~30 times a game.

The Chiefs spotted us a safety and only by some miracle did Brown catch a ball that Big Dummy threw into double coverage, take away those two things we lose and everyone here is talking "the season is over"

In other words the O once again did not produce much as far as scoring.

Like I said after the jags game; inconsistency will be the only consistent thing. Be prepared to cope.
 
The crazy part is how people are kidding themselves on this board.

To answer Ike's question: we match up really well with the chiefs as far as their O-line and our D line goes, that made our secondary look way better than it is. And of course helped us stop the run.

Leveon Bell: They took the ball out of Ben's hands and that is a GOOD thing. You don't want Ben throwing more than 25 ~30 times a game.

The Chiefs spotted us a safety and only by some miracle did Brown catch a ball that Big Dummy threw into double coverage, take away those two things we lose and everyone here is talking "the season is over"

In other words the O once again did not produce much as far as scoring.

Like I said after the jags game; inconsistency will be the only consistent thing. Be prepared to cope.

And if Burns keeps his assignments, they have no TDs. Hypotheticals work both ways...
 
Doesn't mean he audibled to it, could've been the play called in from the sideline and he was hurrying Finney up. If it was anything it was more than likely a run/pass option where the defensive look dictates what play is called, not Ben. It's not like he goes up to the line with the full playbook at his dispose and decides what play they are going to do.

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no , it doesn't. I'm saying I saw it happen. And then he had to hurry the snap,, and then threw it out the back of the end zone. That's why I said earlier in this thread "needs new material" because that play is obviously one that is a red zone audible.
 
no , it doesn't. I'm saying I saw it happen. And then he had to hurry the snap,, and then threw it out the back of the end zone. That's why I said earlier in this thread "needs new material" because that play is obviously one that is a red zone audible.
It's not really an audible, it's run/pass option, so the run play and pass plays are called in from the sideline and then based on the defense they decide what play they run. The play sucks I agree but that's coming from the coaches not Ben.

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By contrast, Watt and Shazier, and have more PD's and they are linebackers. Haden and Burns have more PD's in comparison to Davis and the ball seems to come their way less. A player like Gay who plays fewer snaps is tied with Davis PD's for the year.

Watt, Shazier, Haden, Burns, or Gay didn't have a PD that stole a TD last game. Davis did.

Yes, he did make one nice play to break up a pss. But he makes less than his peers, and less than people who are LB's. Even Jarvis Jones got a sack every now and then. If Davis can have 10 PD's, instead of the 5 he had last year or the 6-7 he's on pace for the defense will have an easier time getting off the field.

With this pass rush, the DB's should be having an easier time.
 
It wasn't a perfect game but I thought both the coaching and execution improved (or had "good games"). You can nitpick here and there about things but going into Kansas City and getting a win as an underdog is an accomplishment and I don't care how pretty it looked.

On offense, I thought the whole game was dictated by the offensive line. Getting Gilbert back at RT helped a lot early and even though he left again I thought at that point the o-line kind of had Kansas City figured out with their fronts. As Romo explained well, the Chief's strong safety (Daniel Sorenson), had a very bad game. He was abused not just by bad gap management but too often when given chances to tackle Bell he failed miserably. There were a lot of designed 3-4 yard runs that ended up being 10 yard runs because of poor play and tackling by Kansas City.

Roethlisberger showed some patience and didn't allow the "game manager" role frustrate him like it sometimes does. I think his recent history on the road has to start being taken into account when we game plan away from Heinz field. Maybe that means more of 2004-2005 Roethlisberger and less of the Arians' Roethlisberger. Maybe we just have to start having faith in our defense to hang in there more that the last couple of seasons. Every game doesn't have to be a shoot out.

On defense, we really improved in run defense (which has been bad at times). We played the gaps much better this week and didn't let Kansas City dictate down-and-distance. That said, Alex Smith had a bad game. He missed some throws and there were some bad drops that helped us a lot. For some reason, I thought Smith got happy feet by halftime and he seemed to rush to leave the pocket earlier than he had to most of the second half. Maybe a hit or two got to him and he obviously doesn't have a lot of faith in his O-line (which Romo mentioned) but for a veteran QB I didn't think he handled the pressure all that well.

Give props to our corners, which I think dominated vs. the weak Kansas City receivers. That allowed our safeties to be much more aggressive in the run game and watching out for Travis Kelce (who might not have been 100% coming off of concussion protocol).

I think the game just was a good matchup for us. When Kansas City can't run the ball or get into long rhythm drives they struggle and we made them uncomfortable early in the game with all the 3-and-outs and our offense staying on the field so long.

It was a good game. Glad we bounced back from the Jacksonville game (who lost to the Rams at home this week!). Can't really figure out this football season. Two 13+ point underdogs win this week. No strong teams anywhere. Not one. Arguably one of the most "open" season to win it all that I can ever remember in October like this. Normally there's a team or two that everyone is gushing over.

If we can stay healthy and knowing Tomlin normally does well in November and December, I'd just sort of say to accept the frustrating losses and boneheaded games for a while and just make the playoffs. At that point, who the hell knows....
 
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Watson has picked up all the 3rd and 1's they have asked of him. If you get first and goal inside the 5, bring him in and at least
pound two. Steelers went for 2 a lot last year because they were good at picking up the short yardage, not sure why we are having
difficulty this year. Only explanation can be execution.
 
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