So Spike, given your continuing rampage, I really have to ask this.

[wig]

You have continuously, endlessly in fact referred to Roethlisberger as "Swollen Head" or "Big Dummy". Now I admit I'm interpreting here, but I don't know how to NOT come to this conclusion based on your non-stop attack on Roethlisberger's play and decision making so please, what I'm honestly asking for here is your (calm) clarification.

Are you saying you don't ever want Roethlisberger running the no huddle or doing anything but what Haley calls and throwing to whomever the progressions in the play suggest. I mean, "Ben, call the play and go through your 1, 2 and 3 reads and if it isn't there throw it away every single time.".

Cause you seem to feel as though he's utterly incompetent. In fact you've pretty much hammered that point non stop. So I'd like you clearly on record for this.

 

[Coryea]

That big dummy, I wouldn't have to plan around this damn team in January if it weren't for that idiot.

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[slashsteel]

Hopefully Spike recovers from whatever is ailing him.

....

 

[wig]

Tom, let him answer. I really want to know. There are a couple of camps here. Obviously quite a few of us believe things go better in the No Huddle. Some it seems believe Ben is truly nothing more than a game manager and shouldn't be allowed to change plays or improvise.

I just want Spike to clarify his "Swollen Head, Big Dummy" opinion of Roethlisberger. I really do.

 

[stillwright]

You have continuously, endlessly in fact referred to Roethlisberger as "Swollen Head" or "Big Dummy". Now I admit I'm interpreting here, but I don't know how to NOT come to this conclusion based on your non-stop attack on Roethlisberger's play and decision making so please, what I'm honestly asking for here is your (calm) clarification.

Are you saying you don't ever want Roethlisberger running the no huddle or doing anything but what Haley calls and throwing to whomever the progressions in the play suggest. I mean, "Ben, call the play and go through your 1, 2 and 3 reads and if it isn't there throw it away every single time.".

Cause you seem to feel as though he's utterly incompetent. In fact you've pretty much hammered that point non stop. So I'd like you clearly on record for this.

I just ignore it. Simple enough. So we lost a game we should have won. Nothing compared to the last time we played them. I say we are the better team and the Pats know this. And yes...I want Ben running the show as much as possible. This offense goes thru him.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Wig can i answer?

 

[wig]

You can answer of course Antdrew, but you're more rational in your criticism. Still completely one-sided, but at least rational.

 

[Coryea]

Tom, let him answer. I really want to know. There are a couple of camps here. Obviously quite a few of us believe things go better in the No Huddle. Some it seems believe Ben is truly nothing more than a game manager and shouldn't be allowed to change plays or improvise.

I just want Spike to clarify his "Swollen Head, Big Dummy" opinion of Roethlisberger. I really do.

That's fine, but it's the "some body has to be blamed" the penalty caused the entire thing, and the fact the ball tipped up right to there guy is dumb luck.

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[antdrewjosh]

Im letting it go Wig just listened to Ben's radio show. Im ok with it. My anger really wasnt with the final play but more with his statement after the game. He is a gunslinger gotta take the good and the bad. Just didnt like the fact that he said he wanted to clock it and then had no consideration to putting the ball in the stands once he saw the throw was risky. Rubbed me wrong. He explained alot of things moving on to Houston

 

[wig]

The interesting thing is that Roethlisberger would be the first person to sit down with a guy like Antdrew and say "Yep. In hindsight, I should have thrown that away. Or I should have just clocked it. I wanted to and I should have just followed my instinct."

Roethlisberger doesn't try to dodge his mistakes. He wasn't being a dick when he said he wanted to clock it and go for the kick. He believed his offense could beat the P*ts and perhaps he even had confidence that his defense could hold the P*ts just once. However the sidelines called in and asked him to do something else. Now, should he have naturally wanted to go for the fade route with the personnel he had on the field? He had JuJu, Rogers, DHB, Bell and I don't think James was on the field at the time, maybe he was. But James is not athletic or quick enough to beat somebody to the corner for a fade, so he's not a great option. Rogers is too short, DHB not physical enough. Ju Ju is probably a good option, but in no huddle with 5 to 10 seconds tops you have to convey the play AND the snap count to your guys and get lined up. Those are ****** odds.

Ben wasn't ready for that because most likely the Steelers never practice that sort of thing. 14 year veteran or not, if you NEVER do that, it's a tall order to try to get 11 guys on the same page in 8 to 10 seconds. I'm just sayin'... The FAR safer play would have been to clock it and kick the FG.

But he listened to Haley and signaled the ONE guy who was watching him at that point and tried to make a play. He thought he saw an opening and he gunned in a ball. It was a mistake. He admitted it. He didn't ***** about the hold. He didn't complain about the officiating. He said "I made a bad throw." Which is more than anybody else on the team did. Part of the reason everyone beats the **** out of Roethlisberger is because he not only takes responsibility for his mistakes but the mistakes of his line and even his receivers. That makes folks who don't understand blocking schemes and route trees think he's always the one screwing up. (I do NOT put you in this category by the way.)

On the other hand Antdrew, yes. He could have thrown that ball away. And I really do, at this point, wish he'd either ignored Haley and clocked it or just thrown it away.

 

[Coryea]

There's plenty of blame to go around, if people feel the need to place blame.
The refs for not calling the PI, Eli was pulled down and wasn't even given a chance to catch it or knock it away.
Ben for not throwing it away.
Tomlin has to have two plays there, has to, we had almost 4 minutes. I know it's an emotional time, but the longer that replay went he should've had an idea what was going to happen.

I'm in no way trying to start a Cowher vs Tomlin thread, but remember the Troy pick in Indy in 2005 that basically ends the game, the defense was just sitting there while they were reviewing it, Cowher came over and got on them and told them get ready to go this may not stand.

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[wig]

We need to all just let this go. On to Houston.

The Steelers need to win the next two. That's critical.

As Tomlin said. The milk is spilled. It doesn't matter who spilled it, how it was spilled or even who has to clean it up. The milk needs to be wiped up and they need to move on.

 

[antdrewjosh]

There's plenty of blame to go around, if people feel the need to place blame.
The refs for not calling the PI, Eli was pulled down and wasn't even given a chance to catch it or knock it away.
Ben for not throwing it away.
Tomlin has to have two plays there, has to, we had almost 4 minutes. I know it's an emotional time, but the longer that replay went he should've had an idea what was going to happen.

I'm in no way trying to start a Cowher vs Tomlin thread, but remember the Troy pick in Indy in 2005 that basically ends the game, the defense was just sitting there while they were reviewing it, Cowher came over and got on them and told them get ready to go this may not stand.

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Tomlin just said there was a more critical scenario that the team was looking at and possibly preparing for. The refs presented them with the possibility that James could be called down at the one and there would be a 10 second run off and a winding clock. That scenario trumped the other two and got more attention during the review process

 

[Coryea]

Tomlin just said there was a more critical scenario that the team was looking at and possibly preparing for. The refs presented them with the possibility that James could be called down at the one and there would be a 10 second run off and a winding clock. That scenario trumped the other two and got more attention during the review process

I heard that, but anyone that watched that review knew it was either a TD or was going to be incomplete, he was never touched by a defender until after he was in the end zone. Everyone picks apart every little thing Ben says, but this is a cop out by Tomlin.

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[wig]

What horseshit.

Why a 10 second runoff? C'mon. Can they even TRY to hide it?

 

[antdrewjosh]

The interesting thing is that Roethlisberger would be the first person to sit down with a guy like Antdrew and say "Yep. In hindsight, I should have thrown that away. Or I should have just clocked it. I wanted to and I should have just followed my instinct."

Roethlisberger doesn't try to dodge his mistakes. He wasn't being a dick when he said he wanted to clock it and go for the kick. He believed his offense could beat the P*ts and perhaps he even had confidence that his defense could hold the P*ts just once. However the sidelines called in and asked him to do something else. Now, should he have naturally wanted to go for the fade route with the personnel he had on the field? He had JuJu, Rogers, DHB, Bell and I don't think James was on the field at the time, maybe he was. But James is not athletic or quick enough to beat somebody to the corner for a fade, so he's not a great option. Rogers is too short, DHB not physical enough. Ju Ju is probably a good option, but in no huddle with 5 to 10 seconds tops you have to convey the play AND the snap count to your guys and get lined up. Those are ****** odds.

Ben wasn't ready for that because most likely the Steelers never practice that sort of thing. 14 year veteran or not, if you NEVER do that, it's a tall order to try to get 11 guys on the same page in 8 to 10 seconds. I'm just sayin'... The FAR safer play would have been to clock it and kick the FG.

But he listened to Haley and signaled the ONE guy who was watching him at that point and tried to make a play. He thought he saw an opening and he gunned in a ball. It was a mistake. He admitted it. He didn't ***** about the hold. He didn't complain about the officiating. He said "I made a bad throw." Which is more than anybody else on the team did. Part of the reason everyone beats the **** out of Roethlisberger is because he not only takes responsibility for his mistakes but the mistakes of his line and even his receivers. That makes folks who don't understand blocking schemes and route trees think he's always the one screwing up. (I do NOT put you in this category by the way.)

On the other hand Antdrew, yes. He could have thrown that ball away. And I really do, at this point, wish he'd either ignored Haley and clocked it or just thrown it away.

And he will also be the first to tell me he called all the plays in the no huddle yeah that was all me. When in fact the speaker in helmet doesnt shut off between him and Haley until a certain point on the play call.

 

[antdrewjosh]

What horseshit.

Why a 10 second runoff? C'mon. Can they even TRY to hide it?

I agree run off for what????

 

[wig]

There could be no justification for a 10 second runoff. If the referees were reviewing and decided the ball should be spotted as a catch at the 1, the Steelers should have gotten the ball AT the 1 AT the time the ball was down.

I mean seriously. C'mon Uncle Anthony.

 

[wig]

I'll bet you that was the ******* delay. The referee looked at it and decided it was down at the 1. And the VP of officiating said... But give them a 10 second runoff and the official said... Uh, but we can only do that if they committed a penalty. And um... we didn't throw a flag.

Conversation ensued...

No Catch.

 

[Coryea]

There could be no justification for a 10 second runoff. If the referees were reviewing and decided the ball should be spotted as a catch at the 1, the Steelers should have gotten the ball AT the 1 AT the time the ball was down.

I mean seriously. C'mon Uncle Anthony.

No way, there was absolutely no way in hell that was anything other than a TD or incomplete pass, I'm sorry that's a cop out by Tomlin, I don't care what the ref told him, anyone watching the replay knew it was a TD or nothing

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[antdrewjosh]

No way, there was absolutely no way in hell that was anything other than a TD or incomplete pass, I'm sorry that's a cop out by Tomlin, I don't care what the ref told him, anyone watching the replay knew it was a TD or nothing

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A cop out. Wow thats the most difficult scenario of all three scenarios. Its not like he made it up himself. It was presented to him. So he should ignore it? Cause everyone knows it was TD or nothing. If there was ten second run off you have to have a play ready for that. Are you going to run bell and risk not getting in the clock running out. Are you passing. Are u running the FG team out. Are you spiking and losing a play? Thats alot of discussion for that scenario alone

 

[Coryea]

A cop out. Wow thats the most difficult scenario of all three scenarios. Its not like he made it up himself. It was presented to him. So he should ignore it? Cause everyone knows it was TD or nothing. If there was ten second run off you have to have play ready for that. Are you going to run bell and risk not getting in the clock running out. Are you passing. Are u running the FG team out. Are you spiking and losing a play? Thats alot of discussion for that scenario alone

I agree it was presented to him, but they replayed that 20 times, anyone with eyes knew he wasn't going to be down at the one. Yes ignore it, because everyone knew there was no way in hell that was the case.

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[antdrewjosh]

I agree it was presented to him, but they replayed that 20 times, anyone with eyes knew he wasn't going to be down at the one. Yes ignore it, because everyone knew there was no way in hell that was the case.

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Wow that makes absolutely no sense. Especially when nobody thought it was anything but a catch in the first place. But he should of ignored the most pressing scenario presentedto him

 

[wig]

I think it was the case Tom and honestly it was probably the best call to make with the least controversy. (Minus the 10 second runoff ****.)

He clearly had possession and a knee down at the 1. The subsequent lunge and flop over the goal line is what caused all the confusion. But there can be no question that he DID have possession with a knee down at the 1. THAT would have been an easy call for the ref to make and it would NOT have been controversial. Everyone could have walked away and said. "Ok, I can live with that."

Then Ben has time to spike it and get a call in for 2 more plays before the FG attempt. I would suspect this is what the referee intended to do, but he got a call from New York saying "Hold on there Chief."

 

[Coryea]

Wow that makes absolutely no sense. Especially when nobody thought it was anything but a catch in the first place. But he should of ignored the most pressing scenario presentedto him

It makes perfect sense, and yes at full speed that is a possible scenario, down at the 1.

Easy question for you, what is the only way he could be ruled down at the one?

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