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So after watching Von Miller today....

SteelerAl said:
What the heck are you talking about with regards to drafting nose tackles? It's basically an extinct position for the Steelers. We have a nose tackle on the field about 30% of the time. I don't know why people can't understand this reality. Our base defense is the nickel. Playing the traditional 3-4 defense is a specialty package.
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Well if we play nickel (the new base defense ) with 3 LBs (timmons, Dupree, shazier) then we could have a NT upfront with heyward and tuitt who we know are very disruptive against the pass
 
Litos said:
Well if we play nickel (the new base defense ) with 3 LBs (timmons, Dupree, shazier) then we could have a NT upfront with heyward and tuitt who we know are very disruptive against the pass
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I like Heyward and Tuitt rushing up the middle. Add the NT and one of them is rushing from the outside which is not a fit.
 
Totally, we should get both Von Miller and Josh Norman. I also just perfected my time machine so we can get a young Mel Blunt and Revis too.
 
I'd love to sign him but I'd have to put a drug clause in his contract making him give back any signing bonus he might get if he gets suspended again which will likely happen. I wouldn't doubt he'd juicing now to be 100% honest. And I assume he'd never sign anything with a drug clause in it because, well he knows he'd fail and have to give back the cash.
 
Looking at the Game book for the regular season game vs. the Steelers, Miller shows 0 tackles, 0 sacks and 1 QB hit. he played 75% of the Defensive Snaps going against an OL missing two starters and the LT is, basically, a rookie.

Ware played a third or less of the defensive snaps.

Playoff game book: Miller had 2 tackles. none for a loss, no sacks, no QB hits while playing 73% of the defensive snaps. Ware played 75% of defensive snaps and 3 tackles, 1 sack, 2 TFL and 1 QB hit.

Denver got 3 sacks in each game.

I realize his performance probably helped result in some of the sacks by other players, and not saying he isn't a good player, but seems like he should have been able to have better results against an injured OL for a break-the-bank kind of player who has already been suspended.

That great D who can really get to the ball had 4 more sacks during the regular season, 3 less interceptions and allowed about 24 more points than the Steelers D who plays with their heads up their *****.
 
The 3-4 is no longer our base defense
 
There are 32 teams and fans that would love to have Von Miller. Hopefully Dupree turns into a player similar to him and can get consistent pressure and win one on one battles.
I don't think we need to take a NT in round 1, but we need a another guy on the DLine to help Tuitt and Heyward, they were gassed in the Denver game, we used the 2DL defense way to much this season because we had no one else worth a damn on the DL. We were in that defense during games when the opponent was in obvious running downs and we got blown off the ball with two DL, see Baltimore, and late in the Denver game.
We need a CB, I'd almost rather go for broke and get Norman from Carolina. I don't think Jones is going to be anything more than an average OLB, we need someone better than him opposite Dupree.
 
coryea said:
There are 32 teams and fans that would love to have Von Miller. Hopefully Dupree turns into a player similar to him and can get consistent pressure and win one on one battles.
I don't think we need to take a NT in round 1, but we need a another guy on the DLine to help Tuitt and Heyward, they were gassed in the Denver game, we used the 2DL defense way to much this season because we had no one else worth a damn on the DL. We were in that defense during games when the opponent was in obvious running downs and we got blown off the ball with two DL, see Baltimore, and late in the Denver game.
We need a CB, I'd almost rather go for broke and get Norman from Carolina. I don't think Jones is going to be anything more than an average OLB, we need someone better than him opposite Dupree.
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Disagree completely. We use the nickel when teams put 3 WRs on the field. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with only having two decent DLs. We absolutely need to upgrade Cam Thomas and hope that L.T. Walton (or the other young project on the practice squad, Lyons) is able to step up so that Tuitt and Heyward can play fewer snaps (a bit more rotation is great but you also need your studs on the field).

Also, Norman is a complete pipe dream. He's getting the franchise tag. It's the same **** as everything thinking we could get Justin Houston last year.
 
I'm not sure we even have a D line. We supposedly are a 3-4 team but probably have 3 linemen in the game less than 50% of the time. They went with 2 in most instances for as long as I can remember this season. We need 3 guys, along with 1 LB that can consistently get pressure on the QB and stop the run. Anything less is just trying to band aid a problem the way I see it.
 
TDX27 said:
We supposedly are a 3-4 team but probably have 3 linemen in the game less than 50% of the time.
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I think we are in our "base" 3-4 defense about 30-33% of the time. The nickel is a 4-2-5 with our two OLBs playing up on the LOS like DEs in a 4-3 defense.
 
SteelerAl said:
What the heck are you talking about with regards to drafting nose tackles? It's basically an extinct position for the Steelers. We have a nose tackle on the field about 30% of the time. I don't know why people can't understand this reality. Our base defense is the nickel. Playing the traditional 3-4 defense is a specialty package.
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Let me clarify...

While Big Mac is serviceable - he does not require two men to stop his penetration. Guys like Suh and Poe - they do...Space eaters mean better pressure.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
 
we definitly need depth up front but the FA priority should be a starting CB or Safety, those two are positions that require more experience than OLB, DE/DT, maybe that's why the FO never invest a 1st round pick on a CB
 
bermudasteel said:
It works if the big NT - or, shall I say, space eater, is in the 3-4...
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Year after year, under both Lebeau and now Butler (and with Hampton and now McLendon), our utilization of a nose tackle continues to decrease. I really don't see a scenario where we become a team that keeps 3 DL on the field in passing situations. We have exactly what we want with Tuitt and Heyward --- two inside pass rushers who can also play the run. Why push one of those guys to the outside where he would struggle trying to rush against an OT?

I think it's an absolute waste to prioritize acquiring a nose tackle. We need to re-sign McLendon, upgrade Cam Thomas and focusing on adding talent to the secondary.
 
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SteelerAl said:
Year after year, under both Lebeau and now Butler (and with Hampton and now McLendon), our utilization of a nose tackle continues to decrease. I really don't see a scenario where we become a team that keeps 3 DL on the field in passing situations. We have exactly what we want with Tuitt and Heyward --- two inside pass rushers who can also play the run. Why push one of those guys to the outside where he would struggle trying to rush against an OT?

I think it's an absolute waste to prioritize acquiring a nose tackle. We need to re-sign McLendon, upgrade Cam Thomas and focusing on adding talent to the secondary.
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No argument from - I'm just an arm chair fan w/ opinions...:popcorn:
 
SteelerAl said:
Disagree completely. We use the nickel when teams put 3 WRs on the field. It's as simple as that. It has nothing to do with only having two decent DLs. We absolutely need to upgrade Cam Thomas and hope that L.T. Walton (or the other young project on the practice squad, Lyons) is able to step up so that Tuitt and Heyward can play fewer snaps (a bit more rotation is great but you also need your studs on the field).

Also, Norman is a complete pipe dream. He's getting the franchise tag. It's the same **** as everything thinking we could get Justin Houston last year.
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Then why were we in that nickel formation late vs Baltimore while trailing? Baltimore wasn't going to throw the ball, they were going to run to kill clock and make us use timeouts, they ran the ball right down our throat for like 35 yards and killed 3 mins on that last drive before we ever stopped them. Denver ran the ball right down our throats their final drive while we were in that formation as well, and yes it has something to do with not having decent guys behind Heyward and Tuitt, Heyward played 67 snaps, Tuitt 66 snaps, McClendon 17, Thomas 16, McCullers 1. They were gassed and we still went out there with only 2 DL, and 4 LB's that weigh 240 or less and allowed Balt's and Denvers OLine to shove us right down the field.
I realize that's usually used on passing downs, but without a viable 3rd DLinemen we used that Nickel more than usual, even on running downs.

As for Norman, this thread was about if you'd want Miller and his price (a pipe dream) just stating I'd rather have Norman and his price.
 
SteelerAl said:
Year after year, under both Lebeau and now Butler (and with Hampton and now McLendon), our utilization of a nose tackle continues to decrease. I really don't see a scenario where we become a team that keeps 3 DL on the field in passing situations. We have exactly what we want with Tuitt and Heyward --- two inside pass rushers who can also play the run. Why push one of those guys to the outside where he would struggle trying to rush against an OT?

I think it's an absolute waste to prioritize acquiring a nose tackle. We need to re-sign McLendon, upgrade Cam Thomas and focusing on adding talent to the secondary.
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It isn't what we're doing, it's what our opponents are doing.

We HAVE to play nickel because teams have figured out that they can negate alot of our base 3-4 by spreading us out. I agree completely that NT is not the priority in this new scheme. Pass rushers and DBs are.
 
SteelerAl said:
Either because the Ravens had 3 WRs on the field or something else (like an injury) was the cause.
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I don't think the Ravens had 3 healthy WR's, and besides even if they had 3WR's, why would they be throwing while leading late in the game with Mallet? I'm pretty sure everyone and anyone knew they were going to run the ball.
Denver's base offense is pretty much 3WR's, but you could still match that with 3DL-3LB-5DB's if you had a decent 3rd guy, or just someone to give Heyward and Tuitt a breather.
 
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...ws-how-3-4-became-a-sub-package-for-steelers/
 
coryea said:
I don't think the Ravens had 3 healthy WR's, and besides even if they had 3WR's, why would they be throwing while leading late in the game with Mallet? I'm pretty sure everyone and anyone knew they were going to run the ball.
Denver's base offense is pretty much 3WR's, but you could still match that with 3DL-3LB-5DB's if you had a decent 3rd guy, or just someone to give Heyward and Tuitt a breather.
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Sigh. We've been having this argument / discussion for years, and nothing ever changes. Our rush defense is ******* awesome with McLendon on the field (opponents average like 2.4 yards / rush when he's on the field). So the idea that we are not using McLendon because the coaching staff doesn't have faith in him is rubbish. Hampton's snaps declined for the same reason...our defensive philosophy is to get the damn NT off the field as soon as the 3rd WR steps across the white lines.

Overall, our run defense was quite good (3.8 yards / rush, I believe). So what is broken? And how are we supposed to rush the passer and cover receivers more effectively by putting an immobile NT on the field, taking off a faster and more versatile player and forcing either Tuitt or Heyward to play further out in space in a less favorable matchup vs. an offensive tackle?

The big runs we allowed were generally the result of bad fills by Shazier (which should go away with more experience) and bad angles / missed tackles by our safeties (hopefully we can upgrade Will Allen).
 
I'm not asking for a big immobile NT, where did I say that, I'm saying another guy on the DL that can actually be counted on to make plays, especially at DE, a spot where McClendon can play, especially on passing downs, but if the coaches had faith in him like you say, don't you think he'd have played more than 17 snaps to take some snaps away from Heyward and Tuitt in the thin air in Denver? I fully understand that we do that on passing downs, but we've been running that nickel on non-passing downs quite a bit late and it's burnt us because Heyward and Tuitt are gassed. Is there a rule that says you can't put 3 good DE's on your DL on some passing downs so you can actually push the pocket? NE used Wilfork a ton on passing downs to push the middle of the pocket, GB used Raji, Denver used Leighton a couple seasons ago. That's the best place to pressure the QB is up the middle, something we don't do very well, and something we didn't do against Manning at all.

Baltimore's drive after we made it 20-17 Baltimore, 6:24 left after the kickoff, Baltimore started at their own 24 and ran the ball to our 44 and ran the clock down to 2:55 while we were in the Nickel when everyone knew they were going to run.
 
If I'm the Steelers I make a run at Haloti Ngata. Big enough to play NT in our base and agile enough to play DE or one of those tackles spots when we go nickle.
 
coryea said:
I'm not asking for a big immobile NT, where did I say that, I'm saying another guy on the DL that can actually be counted on to make plays, especially at DE, a spot where McClendon can play, especially on passing downs, but if the coaches had faith in him like you say, don't you think he'd have played more than 17 snaps to take some snaps away from Heyward and Tuitt in the thin air in Denver? I fully understand that we do that on passing downs, but we've been running that nickel on non-passing downs quite a bit late and it's burnt us because Heyward and Tuitt are gassed. Is there a rule that says you can't put 3 good DE's on your DL on some passing downs so you can actually push the pocket? NE used Wilfork a ton on passing downs to push the middle of the pocket, GB used Raji, Denver used Leighton a couple seasons ago. That's the best place to pressure the QB is up the middle, something we don't do very well, and something we didn't do against Manning at all.

Baltimore's drive after we made it 20-17 Baltimore, 6:24 left after the kickoff, Baltimore started at their own 24 and ran the ball to our 44 and ran the clock down to 2:55 while we were in the Nickel when everyone knew they were going to run.
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They have faith in McLendon at NT. He is not an ideal DE, only used there in an emergency. Depth at DE is clearly a problem...Cam Thomas and the rookie-version of LT Walton were not good enough to play in meaningful situations.

Yes, this coaching staff thinks there is a rule against using 3 DLs when the offense puts 3 WRs on the field. I've said it 5 times already, but you clearly do not want to listen. They just don't do it, and it's not going to change. So keep repeating these posts year after year while nothing changes...
 
antdrewjosh said:
If I'm the Steelers I make a run at Haloti Ngata. Big enough to play NT in our base and agile enough to play DE or one of those tackles spots when we go nickle.
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That's a no thanks for me. Overpriced and washed up. We wouldn't be getting 2009 Ngata.
 
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