Seriously, does it get any more comical from the national media about the Steelers

[Coach]

I apologize. It's 6 out of 7 seasons. 6 out of 7! What epic failure!!!!

They made it in 2011. Missed in 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, 2014 & 2015.

I have hope for you. Better use of the data.

If Tomlin goes 0-4 in his last 4 playoff games and has not won a playoff game in five years in a row, do you apply the same standard to Tomlin? To use your words " Epic Failure "

Al, we could be on the same page brother. I hope your not using a double standard. Just to clarify that you are not, suppose we lose on Saturday. Where would you rate it? Epic Failure?

Respectfully.

Coach

 

[SteelerAl]

I have hope for you. Better use of the data.

If Tomlin goes 0-4 in his last 4 playoff games and has not won a playoff game in five years in a row, do you apply the same standard to Tomlin? To use your words " Epic Failure "

Al, we could be on the same page brother. I hope your not using a double standard. Just to clarify that you are not, suppose we lose on Saturday. Where would you rate it? Epic Failure?

Respectfully.

Coach

Dear Coach,

I was mocking you with the "Epic Failure" comment. It was done in a tongue-and-cheek manner. I think Coughlin is a pretty decent coach and judging him solely on one arbitrary stat is foolhardy. I mean, the guy did win the Super Bowl in 2007 and 2011 so it's pretty unfair to cherry-pick around those events. A lot of the blame needs to be placed on the GM, the Giants roster lacks talent everywhere (Eli and OBJ are the only pieces worth a **** after JPP blew up his hand).

Regarding Tomlin and your 0-4 scenario --- it would be idiotic to let one game change my mind. We have a coach that's won 92 games and a Super Bowl (and been to one more) in 9 years. One game win or lose won't change my belief that we should be on the short-list of Super Bowl favorites next season (our entire offense should return along with Pouncey and Bell) if we keep the current coaching staff and attempt to upgrade our defensive secondary.

Kind regards,
- Al

 

[MTC]

Tim Tebow and the Broncos saved us from losing 49-13 at New England the following week. We had only a shell of a team remaining after that game.

I think the Pats would have killed us. But still, losing to Tebow?

 

[SteelerAl]

I think the Pats would have killed us. But still, losing to Tebow?

I'm not excusing the loss, just being realistic about what was ahead of us if we had won. We lost Starks, Keisel and others in that Denver game...we would have been incredibly undermanned the following week.

 

[AggieSteel]

I think the Pats would have killed us. But still, losing to Tebow?

Maybe so, but we beat the P*ts in the regular season that year. It was the one time Lebeau actually decided to play press coverage on P*ts receivers and *SHOCK* *GASP* *SURPRISE* we pretty much contained them

 

[GRBman]

I think the Pats would have killed us. But still, losing to Tebow?

Let's keep in mind that Demarius Thomas made that play. Tebow made a 9 1/2 yard throw that our safeties blew a coverage on... The rest of the game really wasn't a barn-burner either...

 

[Coach]

Dear Coach,

I was mocking you with the "Epic Failure" comment. It was done in a tongue-and-cheek manner. I think Coughlin is a pretty decent coach and judging him solely on one arbitrary stat is foolhardy. I mean, the guy did win the Super Bowl in 2007 and 2011 so it's pretty unfair to cherry-pick around those events. A lot of the blame needs to be placed on the GM, the Giants roster lacks talent everywhere (Eli and OBJ are the only pieces worth a **** after JPP blew up his hand).

Regarding Tomlin and your 0-4 scenario --- it would be idiotic to let one game change my mind. We have a coach that's won 92 games and a Super Bowl (and been to one more) in 9 years. One game win or lose won't change my belief that we should be on the short-list of Super Bowl favorites next season (our entire offense should return along with Pouncey and Bell) if we keep the current coaching staff and attempt to upgrade our defensive secondary.

Kind regards,
- Al

Al,

Epic failure and better use of data. You're becoming more like me if whether you know it or not.

Coughlin > Tomlin. Tom took over two very bad teams and made one very competitive and the other a two-time super bowl winner. He did not start out with a loaded team as Tomlin did, then underachieve in the playoffs.

Not only does Coughlin have more rings, his playoff record is significantly better. Tom = 12-7. Tomlin = 5-4. While I think Coughlin's last three years have been below his par, the guy's 69 years old.

I see you are fine with 0-4 in the last playoff games. One game does not change your mind. I say several years with no playoff wins, which is hardly one game.

At what point do you change your mind? The goal, after all, is winning a super bowl and to do that the team needs to be able to win in the playoffs. 0-4 with the same guy, and combined with regular season blunders makes me wonder.

 

[topseed]

Regarding Tomlin and your 0-4 scenario --- it would be idiotic to let one game change my mind. We have a coach that's won 92 games and a Super Bowl (and been to one more) in 9 years. One game win or lose won't change my belief that we should be on the short-list of Super Bowl favorites next season (our entire offense should return along with Pouncey and Bell) if we keep the current coaching staff and attempt to upgrade our defensive secondary.

But it wouldn't just be one game. It would be another chapter in five ongoing years of failure.

Just being "on the short-list of Super Bowl favorites" every year isn't good enough, especially when you subsequently can't even manage to win one postseason game. If anything, appearing in that group and then not living up to the expectations is a clear indication of Tomlin's arrow pointing down.

The Steelers are on that short list of favorites AS WE SPEAK. Right behind the Patriots, Cardinals, Panthers, Broncos, and Seahawks. Just ahead of KC. I'm not worried about what the odds might look like next year. It's there for the taking...right now.

 

[Coach]

But it wouldn't just be one game. It would be another chapter in five ongoing years of failure.

Just being "on the short-list of Super Bowl favorites" every year isn't good enough, especially when you subsequently can't even manage to win one postseason game. If anything, appearing in that group and then not living up to the expectations is a clear indication of Tomlin's arrow pointing down.

The Steelers are on that short list of favorites AS WE SPEAK. Right behind the Patriots, Cardinals, Panthers, Broncos, and Seahawks. Just ahead of KC. I'm not worried about what the odds might look like next year. It's there for the taking...right now

This could be the weakest AFC playoff team lot in years. I agree, its there for the taking.

 

[SteelerAl]

But it wouldn't just be one game. It would be another chapter in five ongoing years of failure.

Just being "on the short-list of Super Bowl favorites" every year isn't good enough, especially when you subsequently can't even manage to win one postseason game. If anything, appearing in that group and then not living up to the expectations is a clear indication of Tomlin's arrow pointing down.

The Steelers are on that short list of favorites AS WE SPEAK. Right behind the Patriots, Cardinals, Panthers, Broncos, and Seahawks. Just ahead of KC. I'm not worried about what the odds might look like next year. It's there for the taking...right now.

Fair enough, you are entitled to your view. I'm simply saying that - regardless of what happens tomorrow night - my point of view is that I want this entire coaching staff back next year because I think we will be in prime position to win it all and a change in staffs would make a Lombardi less likely not more.

Similarly, I don't think your view on this regime would change even if we had managed to defeat Tebow only to be blown away the following week by the Patriots (which would have surely happened).

I've already expressed my feelings on where this team was at the point of the 2011 lockout and that I think Tomlin has done an admirable job in putting us back into position to chase the Lombardi.

 

[GTDome]

Let's keep in mind that Demarius Thomas made that play. Tebow made a 9 1/2 yard throw that our safeties blew a coverage on... The rest of the game really wasn't a barn-burner either...

It was though. Tebow shattered potseason records for yards per completion and 40+ yard completions in a game. (Tebow had 8 passes of 40+ in his entire career, and 4 came in that game.) He also ran on us at will (50 yards).

That was a passing performance that not Montana, Favre, Peyton, Brady, etc. ever really achieved. It was fluky, sure, but a crappy QB picking us apart is no fluke. Happens like 3-5 times a year. We all knew Tebow would have one of the best passing games of his career there.

And not to nitpick but the winning pass to Thomas went 18 yards downfield. Many stat-keepers categorize passes that travel 15+ yards as deep passes.

 

[topseed]

Fair enough, you are entitled to your view. I'm simply saying that - regardless of what happens tomorrow night - my point of view is that I want this entire coaching staff back next year because I think we will be in prime position to win it all and a change in staffs would make a Lombardi less likely not more.

Similarly, I don't think your view on this regime would change even if we had managed to defeat Tebow only to be blown away the following week by the Patriots (which would have surely happened).

I've already expressed my feelings on where this team was at the point of the 2011 lockout and that I think Tomlin has done an admirable job in putting us back into position to chase the Lombardi.

No matter what happens, there isn't going to be a significant change in staff with the 2016 Steelers. Everybody knows that. Although in 2002, Jon Gruden and his new staff were able to take a good Bucs core group and lead them to a Super Bowl championship, so it's been done before.

Similarly, your view of Tomlin remains the same no matter how often he fails in the postseason, so it isn't surprising that another loss today wouldn't matter to you.

 

[FSF]

But it wouldn't just be one game. It would be another chapter in five ongoing years of failure.

Just being "on the short-list of Super Bowl favorites" every year isn't good enough, especially when you subsequently can't even manage to win one postseason game. If anything, appearing in that group and then not living up to the expectations is a clear indication of Tomlin's arrow pointing down.

The Steelers are on that short list of favorites AS WE SPEAK. Right behind the Patriots, Cardinals, Panthers, Broncos, and Seahawks. Just ahead of KC. I'm not worried about what the odds might look like next year. It's there for the taking...right now.

Interesting way of defining the word "failure".

The interpretation that I am picking up; which doesn't necessarily mean I'm understanding you 100% but only what it appears you are saying -- and that is that "failure" is either not winning a post season game or not winning the Super Bowl because "being on the short list of favorites every year isn't good enough".

So what is not a failure? Lets examine our 3 recent head coaches and who was a success and a failure?


Chuck Noll -- Success or Failure?
Okay, perhaps it's heresy to imply it due to the 4 Super Bowls in 6 years in the 1970s because SUCCESS isn't a strong enough word.

But when the 1980s rolled around; the Steelers weren't winning many playoff games or much of anything for that matter:
They certainly were not on the "short list of favorites" -- MAYBE if Terry Bradshaw's elbow didn't go in 1983 and even lasted into 1984; there was enough on those teams to make a run -- after all they had the #3 defense in NFL in 1983 and in 1984 beat the defending Super Bowl Champion Raiders and eventual Super Bowl Champion 49ers on the road. But like the 2011 Steelers on into 2012; they got OLD.

So, was Noll "spiraling down" as the team won only 2 AFC Central titles in the 1980s and from 1980-1988 they only made 3 playoff appearances (1 of which was the strike expanded playoff where they were one and done vs. San Diego) and won only one post season game in 9 years?

And while Noll did get the team in the right direction in 1989, it took a domino effect of epic proportions for the Steelers to make the playoffs. And after the surprising 2 game stretch for his young team that year, in 1990 that promising young team took a nose dive of equally epic proportions in the Commander Cody Carlson Bowl vs. our "#1 pass defense" (which made this years unit look good that day).

Consider the last 11 years of Noll's drafts (since the Tomlin haters love to call him out):
Rod Woodson/Louis Lipps, Carnell Lake/ Dermontti Dawson /Greg Lloyd-- excellent
Passing on Dan Marino over his bosses desires out of spite for a sportswriter -- EPIC FAILURE and speaking of which, other 1st round gems

1. Mark Malone
2. Walter Abercrombie
3. Darryl "Sack Man" Simms
4. John Reinstra (9th overall people)
5. Aaron Jones
6. Tim Worley (7th overall people -- highest since 71.)
7. Tom Ricketts
8. Huey Richardson (and you people ***** about Jarvis Jones)

So, considering the mediocrity of the 1980s including the worst season of them all (1986) and the worst record since 1971 (1988: 5-11), was Chuck Noll ultimately a failure? Would seem so by your definition.....


Bill Cowher - Success or Failure
Bill Cowher had the highest winning percentage of any coach in the NFL during his tenure and did win a Super Bowl (in "unimpressive" fashion) and lost a Super Bowl (in "impressive" fashion).

Cowher ultimately took over that young 1990 team that failed in the Commander Cody Bowl and the franchise won 11 games and a home playoff game due to a Division Championship for the first time since 1979; then continued to be "on the short list of Super Bowl Favorites" through 1997, when that core group got old (and raided by Free Agency.

It took Bill Cowher's regime all of two seasons to be heading into the final game of the season needing help to make the postseason -- only difference between 1989 and 2000 is they didn't get it. But the franchise was remade into another team that was "on the short list of Super Bowl Favorites" going into each season until his resignation in 2006 (where his family was obviously more important to him by that point).

Cowher's shortcomings? Like Noll's 1980s drafts

1. 1994 San Diego Chargers AFC Championship -- Most embarrassing loss in team history; acted like they already belonged in Super Bowl
2. 1997 Denver Broncos AFC Championship -- Kordell's 2 INT in end zone meltdown + blowing easy early FG = should have won (+ Denver cheating with cap)
3. 2001 New England Patriots AFC Championship -- No Bettis plus two of the most freak special teams TDs ever
4. 2004 New England Patriots AFC Championship -- Straight up cheating ******* (second confirmed loss to a cheating team)
5. 1995 Dallas Cowboys Super Bowl -- actually outplayed the drug addicts, save for O'Donnell's INTs

Cowher took Noll's team to next level, saw it decline and set stage for a near Dynasty team -- all while winning playoff games with 5 different starting QBs

1. Neil O'Donnell -- what was with that spike to stop the clock and was a down vs. SD and the 2 Larry Brown INTs in XXX
2. Mike Tomczak -- one year journeyman who was very limited
3. Kordell Stewart -- 2 AFC Championship Games; 3 INTs each
4. Tommy Maddox -- Actually damn if Plaxico Burress catches that 20 yarder in his grille, the Steelers go to another AFC Championship
5. Ben Roethlisberger -- Managed a young,extremely talented but undisciplined QB to incredible playoff success

At the end of the day; Cowher left right when his greatest team was emerging and what a legacy he could have had with Dan Marino in 1990s (wait who passed him up) or Ben through the late 2000s. As it was, it was a run better than 90% of all the NFL Franchises have seen since the Super Bowl era.

Does that make him a success or failure?

Mike Tomlin--Success or Failure
So he "inherited" a team with most of a Super Bowl Championship roster in tact "Bill Cowher's Players" and he won a Super Bowl with it while losing another that without a turnover might have been quite different. So he shouldn't get credit for it in many people's eyes.

• After all Barry Switzer did it for the Dallas Cowboys after Jimmy Johnson won 2 Super Bowls, but somehow he was gone and the team irrelevant two years later
• Oh yeah, Don McCafferty did it when the Baltimore Colts had Don Shula snatched away by the Dolphins, though Shula's Colts lost Super Bowl III, which coach was in the league two years later?
• But George Seifert really had a dominant run with the 49ers after Bill Walsh retired, though it was barely a secret Walsh still heavily consulted and they ran everything the same; and when he took his magic to Carolina that 1-15 season was indeed impressive.....

But hey, Tomlin should have won a Super Bowl anyway right --- it should have been easy, just like it was in these situations:

• 1996/1997 Mike Holmgren Green Bay Packers Super Bowl Champions once; left/replaced by Ray Rhodes in 1998 then fired and Mike Sherman for 6 years -- how'd that work out for those guys "winning with Holmgren's players"
• 1999 Dirk Vermeil St Louis Rams Super Bowl Champions ("The Greatest Show on Turf" in 1999), retired/replaced by Mike Martz who lost to the sham 2001 Patriots and fired few years later -- how'd that work out for him "winning with Vermeil's players"
• 2006 Tony Dungy Indianapolis Colts Super Bowl Champions; retired/replaced by Jim Caldwell who blew a chance at a 16-0 season in 2009 and lost the Super Bowl the same year -- -- how'd that work out for him "winning with Dungy's players"
• that Mike Martz failed at it with the Greatest Show on Turf losing the 2001 Super Bowl, Jim Caldwell failed at it with a team that could have went 16-0 if it chose losing the 2009 Super Bowl just a few years after their predecessors won it; and he maintained a level of success enough to reach another Super Bowl where Martz and Caldwell were fired shortly thereafter

Tomlin oversaw the Steelers to a second Super Bowl amid the catastrophe that was 2010 Ben Roethlisberger and the NFL literally changing the rules to go against the way the physical style they played that won them the Super Bowl in 2008 (secondary knocking the **** out of WRs) in mid-season; a rule change that took what Harrison, Clark and others prided themselves on and allowed Green Bay to wander untouched in secondary.

So just like 1980, the team got OLD showing those signs in 2011. A rebuild on the fly, amidst Salary Cap Hell and non stop bitching about draft picks while never giving praise to the insight of drafting:

• Le'veon Bell (oh wait, you all bitched about not taking Eddie Lacy)
• Antonio Brown
• Maurkice Pouncey
• David DeCastro
• Stephon Tuitt
• Lawrence Timmons
• Marcus Gilbert
• Martavius Bryant
• Marcus Wheaton
• Kelvin Beachum
• Ryan Shazier (jury is out, but shows promise)
• Bud Dupree (not bad for rookie season)

Instead it's always:

• Jarvis Jones
• Jarvis Jones
• Dre Archer
• Jarvis Jones
• Dre Archer
• Dre Archer
• Dre Archer
• Dre Archer
• Jarvis Jones
• Jarvis Archer
• Dre Jones
• Jarvis Archer Dre Jones

Give it a rest people -- a missed first rounder and a missed 3rd rounder. Jesus, I swear to every Antwon Blake hater I hope hell for you is watching the 1986 Harvey Clayton highlight reel.

Jones is a bust, we get it. At least he's had a few sacks and INTs. Go see Huey Richardson.
Dre Archer was a bust, we get it, they did get a guy named Martavius Bryant in the next round -- do you expect every 3rd round pick to turn out as good as Mel Bount, Hines Ward, Steve Davis, Roger Bernhardt, Walter White, Charles Lockett or Neil O'Donnell!!!


Bottom Line: Now the Steelers went through the transition of getting a near dynasty growing old and salary cap hell and "suffered through a pair of 8-8 seasons"
2012 -- losing 2 OT games and another 3 by 3 points
2013 -- 8-4 after an 0-4 start, (less than an inch away of Antonio Brown's foot on a punt return out of bounds and like the Noll 89 team & Cowher 2000 team -- needing that one bit of help to get in the postseason.

Tomlin has the Steelers on an upswing and hopefully it goes deeper tonight. Time will tell, but for now no one can say he's doing it with "Cowher's players", its a new generation finding itself.

Is that a failure or success?


I'll save you the trouble. Not just in football but in life we all fail more than we succeed. But it's those who continue to find a way that make a difference. We've had 3 head coaches since 1969 who have.