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Pouncey-DuPree-JJ-Ramon Foster...Steelers Weakness Per PFF

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Marchetti67

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Interesting read in the Post-Gazette per Profootball Focus the Steelers have the 7th best roster for 2018. Here are some highlights listing the Good and the Weak.

Players are broken down into five categories: elite, high quality, average, below average and poor. The Steelers had two players earn elite grades — receiver Antonio Brown and guard David DeCastro.

Seven Steelers earned high quality grades. They were quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, running back Le’Veon Bell, tackle Marcus Gilbert, defensive ends Stephon Tuitt and Cameron Heyward and cornerbacks Mike Hilton and Artie Burns.

Four players received poor grades: outside linebacker Bud Dupree, tight end Jesse James and offensive linemen Maurkice Pouncey and Ramon Foster.

The surprises: Pouncey and Burns.

Full article: http://www.steelernationforums.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=2
 
While I disagree with Pouncey being a poor grade, I don't think he is elite either. I would say somewhere between average and high quality.

Burns as high quality? LOL.
 
While I appreciate the attempt to grade every player, every play, etc. for the purposes of conversation and high level gauging of players' contributions, there's just too much room for bs in this method. Pouncey as "poor" and Burns as "high quality" are both jokes
 
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I thought the grades on pouncey and Burns was BS too. I think most will agree with DuPree being an weakness. This season is do or die for him!
 
Pouncey is talked about by the talking heads as the best center in the NFL. I know Ben agrees with that. No clue how he could be considered a weakness in any sense.
 
PFF....trash site. They evaluate based what their evaluators believe is the correct assignment is on each play. Not the actual assignment as designed by the coaches. Those evaluations are nothing but guesses. But, they have NBC, a big network, invested in them to drive their conclusions.


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PFF has always scored Pouncey low and Foster is also a very consistent lineman. Based on this, they have both of those guys rated lower than Villanueva, our weakest lineman last year. No clue how Burns earned a high score either.
 
Here are the sack numbers from 2017:

Sack Breakdown (2017)

Alejandro Villanueva: 6
Ben Roethlisberger: 3.5
Todd Haley: 3
Chris Hubbard: 2
Le’Veon Bell: 1.5
David DeCastro: 1.5
Ramon Foster: 1.5
Matt Feiler: 1
B.J. Finney: 1
Maurkice Pouncey: 1
Marcus Gilbert: .5
Receivers: .5
Coverage: .5

And let’s look at it from a more relative perspecitve, snaps per sack allowed. Higher the number, the better.

Pouncey: 591
Gilbert: 436
DeCastro: 394.7
Foster: 352.7
Hubbard: 217.5
Roethlisberger: 168.6
Finney: 111
Villanueva: 101.2
Feiler: 34
 
Strong as your weakest link. Every one of those guys is a strong starter on most rosters. Pouncey- that is pure ****. Top five centre in the league. Has been the best some years.
 
Marchetti67 said:
Interesting read in the Post-Gazette per Profootball Focus the Steelers have the 7th best roster for 2018. Here are some highlights listing the Good and the Weak.

Players are broken down into five categories: elite, high quality, average, below average and poor. The Steelers had two players earn elite grades — receiver Antonio Brown and guard David DeCastro.

Seven Steelers earned high quality grades. They were quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, running back Le’Veon Bell, tackle Marcus Gilbert, defensive ends Stephon Tuitt and Cameron Heyward and cornerbacks Mike Hilton and Artie Burns.

Four players received poor grades: outside linebacker Bud Dupree, tight end Jesse James and offensive linemen Maurkice Pouncey and Ramon Foster.

The surprises: Pouncey and Burns.

Full article: http://www.steelernationforums.com/newthread.php?do=newthread&f=2
Click to expand...

Can we read the link? I do not see it.

James is average, limited after the catch, and heck yes that was a touchdown!

Dupree is poor vs the run, and only slightly above average as a pass rusher.

Pouncey is rather over rated. Yes, he still pulls well, but he's hardly the type to root out DT's in the running game. What was his rating # relative to the other centers?

Burns is hot and cold. I say he's above average as a starter.

Foster is just a guy. Big and slow, but solid in assignments, we would not lose anything if he left and Finney took over.
 
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Coach, if Dupree was slightly above average as a pass rusher, I don't think many people would be complaining about him. I never thought he was very good against the run or rushing the passer. His best asset is pass coverage IMHO, for what that's worth.
 
Checked the ratings.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/teams/pittsburgh-steelers/25/roster

Foster #43rd rated in the NFL. With 64 starting guards, I’d say this is close to correct

Pouncey rated #21 of centers? A bit low, maybe his play has declined? I still say he’s way over paid and a minor distraction.

Burns rated as above average. #43 at Cornerback, essentially saying he’s a good #2 starter

James rated at #50 among TE’s. He’s a back up who starts due to the weakness of the position. Agreed.
 
Sarge said:
Coach, if Dupree was slightly above average as a pass rusher, I don't think many people would be complaining about him. I never thought he was very good against the run or rushing the passer. His best asset is pass coverage IMHO, for what that's worth.
Click to expand...


Well six sacks last year isn't bad. Put to to you this way that's Jarvis Jones entire career. Agreed, he's not good vs the run. I don't quite see this coverage type of player maker you talking about. Maybe he can cover his man and the ball doesn't go that way.

Watt seemed more productive in coverage to me. We'll see, maybe Bud can be a nickel cover backer. He is fast.
 
I didn't say he was a coverage "play maker." I said I thought it was his best asset.

Here, I'll just translate. I think he sucks. He isn't productive against the run or the pass. He looks pretty bad *** though, big as he is.
 
Sounds like Coach wrote the article. When you only go by PFF, you get some head scratching evals.
 
Ike Kelly said:
PFF....trash site. They evaluate based what their evaluators believe is the correct assignment is on each play. Not the actual assignment as designed by the coaches. Those evaluations are nothing but guesses. But, they have NBC, a big network, invested in them to drive their conclusions.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app
Click to expand...

Didn't you say because we don't know what their grading formula was its trash!

Oh, there is more to it than just being correct in assignment, making a difference and carrying out your assignment successfully I would think is part of the grade too.
 
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Steelworth said:
Here are the sack numbers from 2017:

Sack Breakdown (2017)

Alejandro Villanueva: 6
Ben Roethlisberger: 3.5
Todd Haley: 3
Chris Hubbard: 2
Le’Veon Bell: 1.5
David DeCastro: 1.5
Ramon Foster: 1.5
Matt Feiler: 1
B.J. Finney: 1
Maurkice Pouncey: 1
Marcus Gilbert: .5
Receivers: .5
Coverage: .5

And let’s look at it from a more relative perspecitve, snaps per sack allowed. Higher the number, the better.

Pouncey: 591
Gilbert: 436
DeCastro: 394.7
Foster: 352.7
Hubbard: 217.5
Roethlisberger: 168.6
Finney: 111
Villanueva: 101.2
Feiler: 34
Click to expand...

Bumped for Coach.
 
Cope said:
Sounds like Coach wrote the article. When you only go by PFF, you get some head scratching evals.
Click to expand...


I don't always agree with them. They have Ben the 4th best QB in the game. I think people have issues looking at the descriptions of the players more so than where they rank among their peers.


Elite ( A score of 90 or higher, I think )

High Quality

Above Average

Average

Below Average

Poor

Rookie
 
Steelworth said:
Bumped for Coach.
Click to expand...

Well I guess the good news is Haley caused 3 sacks and he's GONE. The pass blocking was good last year.

But that chart does not rank run blocking, nor does it list the amount of penalties. Pouncey would not rate high as a run blocker.

Centers by their very nature begin stuck between two guards do not give up a lot of sacks.

Another way to look at grading is the AV value by Pro football reference. Pouncey's play according to them has dropped off. Back to back 9's.

By contrast the other players on offense had the following AV values

Brown 15
Bell 15
Ben 14
DeCastro 13
Villanueva 10

Pouncey 9

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/P/PounMa20.htm
 
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What are plenaries?
 
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