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Pope Francis visit to US

SCSteeler4life

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My issue with the Pope is people like you (I don't mean that in a bad way) think he speaks for all Christians in the free world. He does not. He is just a man like me. I have had a personal relationship with Christ for over 30 years now and Haven't needed him or any other member of the Catholic church to do so. All of the sudden all non believers are singing the praises of this new Pope with his left leaning ways. That's just ironic.


Sorry Mr. Pope, but you're wrong. I don't need you or the Catholic church for me to have a personal relationship with Jesus. I gained that when I asked Him to come into my heart and I can talk to Him whenever & wherever I want to.

Pope Francis described as "dangerous" the temptation to believe that one can have "a personal, direct, immediate relationship with Jesus Christ without communion with and the mediation of the church."
 

Tibs

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5 amazing ways Pope Francis made Republicans squirm yesterday
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/25/5_a...publicans_squirm_yesterday/?source=newsletter

In his speech to Congress, the pope made one thing very clear: Republicans aren't acting very Christian

Despite all the talk that Pope Francis’ address to Congress wouldn’t be political or partisan, it turns out it was both. And, as I predicted here in Salon, it definitely leaned to one side of the aisle. In fact, if you were a conservative Republican, Thursday morning in the Congress was not your finest moment, as Pope Francis laid bare all the ways that the Republican agenda counters Catholic social teaching, from its harsh treatment of immigrants to its fossil fuel-burning disdain for the natural world.

And Francis’ call for politicians to work for the common good was an implicit rebuke to the do-nothing, obstructionist GOP agenda that’s in service to their corporatist, Chamber of Commerce overlords. “Your own responsibility as members of Congress is to enable this country, by your legislative activity, to grow as a nation. …You are called to defend and preserve the dignity of your fellow citizens in the tireless and demanding pursuit of the common good, for this is the chief aim of all politics,” he said.

Here are the five key moments in Francis’ speech that made conservatives squirm more than any others:

The shout-out to Dorothy Day. Francis commended four Americans in particular, whom he held up as examples of pursuing the common good: Abraham Lincoln, for his pursuit of liberty; Martin Luther King Jr., for his commitment to nonviolence and pluralism; Trappist monk Thomas Merton, for his commitment to dialogue and peace; and Dorothy Day, for her “social activism, her passion for justice and for the cause of the oppressed.”

None of them are exactly conservative, but Day in particular is noted as a radical social activist. She founded the Catholic Worker Movement, which took root during the Great Depression, and urged Catholics to form small, autonomous communities to lead simple lives devoted to the gospel and serving the poor. In addition to being a socialist, Day was outspoken in her support of pacifism and labor rights. “I think it was extraordinary that he cited her as one of the most important people in recent American history. This would be one of the very, very few times that somebody as radical as Dorothy Day was mentioned,” Sen. Bernie Sander told the Washington Post.

The abortion switcheroo. In defiance of the specific guidance not to try to score political points by clapping at partisan applause lines in Francis’ speech, congressional conservatives leapt to their feet the moment Francis delivered the Vatican’s standard coded language about abortion, mentioning “our responsibility to protect and defend human life at every stage of its development.” Imagine their shock when he immediately followed that with, “This conviction had led me, from the beginning of my ministry, to advocate at different levels for the global abolition of the death penalty.” Psych.

Catholic social teaching has long put opposition to the death penalty on the same plane as opposition to abortion, most famously with Chicago Archbishop Joseph Bernardin’s “seamless garment” doctrine, which held sway in the mid-1980s as progressive bishops reminded Catholics that opposition to the death penalty and nuclear war was just as important as abortion

Calling arms deals “money drenched in blood.” Speaking of death, what about all those arms deals the Republicans are so fond of? Francis wanted to know who is selling the bad guys all these weapons and why: “Why are deadly weapons being sold to those who plan to inflict untold suffering on individuals and society?” The answer, according to the pontiff, is “money: money that is drenched in blood, often innocent blood. In the face of this shameful and culpable silence, it is our duty to confront the problem and to stop the arms trade.” I’m sure the GOP and all the defense contractors who give them money will get right on that.

Reminding the GOP we’re all foreigners. As in his speech at the White House on Tuesday, Francis felt the need to once again remind those who are making intolerance toward immigrants their political stock-in-trade that they, like him, are likely the descendants of immigrant families. “[M]illions of people came to this land to pursue their dream of building a future in freedom,” he said, adding, “We, the people of this continent, are not fearful of foreigners, because most of us were once foreigners. I say this to you as the son of immigrants, knowing that so many of you are also descended from immigrants.”

Catholic social teaching reminds Catholics of their duty to “welcome the stranger.”

In one of the most moving passages of his speech, Francis said, “Let us seek for others the same possibilities which we seek for ourselves. Let us help others to grow, as we would like to be helped ourselves. In a word, if we want security, let us give security; if we want life, let us give life; if we want opportunities, let us provide opportunities.”

Confronting the climate naysayers. Francis made it clear that combating climate change, development and technology can coexist. He explicitly rebuked many conservative critics of his climate change encyclical “Laudato si,” who claim that he is anti-commerce and wants to stifle development or reduce the world to subsistence-level farming to stop climate change. “The right use of natural resources, the proper application of technology and the harnessing of the spirit of enterprise are essential elements of an economy which seeks to be modern, inclusive and sustainable,” he said, adding, “In this regard, I am confident that America’s outstanding academic and research institutions can make a vital contribution in the years ahead.”

On the plus for conservatives side, Francis did talk about the need for “the voice of faith to continue to be heard,” but in the case of this particular voice, conservatives probably wish he would just be quiet.
 

Spike

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Pope Francis’ Marxist Adviser, Naomi Klein

A very high profile anti-Capitalist from Canada named Naomi Klein has been invited by Pope Francis to join forces with Climate Change activist and senior aide to the Pope, Cardinal Peter Turkson. Together they will lead a prominent conference on the environment with churchmen, scientists, and activists. The conference will exclude climate change doubters and moderates.

The Pope had walked back some of his comments on the economy which were anti-Capitalist but Klein says he got it right the first time – we need to overturn Capitalism.

Klein spoke at Occupy Wall Street, is, according to the guardian, is a “ferocious critic of Capitalism”, and a secular radical.

In one of her books, This Changes Everything, she insisted that incremental shifts away from fossil fuels is insufficient. She believes militarism and war are due to climate change.

She once admitted to being a communist but now says she is a socialist. Her father was a radical Marxist and she has said her grandparents were “hardcore communists.”

While she is appalled by capitalism, she manages to live a very comfortable life with her filmmaker and Al Jazeera TV host husband and son, according to The Washington Times.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/28/pope-climate-change-naomi-klein



"Despite Francis’ charisma and the way he has galvanized portions of the Catholic community as well as groups that are otherwise harshly critical of Catholicism and of religion in general, his Papacy has generated concerns because of its constant anti-capitalist and anti-development themes. Does he seriously believe, critics have wondered, that the evil and bankrupt creed of socialism, which has murdered more than a hundred million people and condemned hundreds of millions to unimaginable and unnecessary poverty, actually offers a solution for the poor of the world? Does the Pope, in other words, actually believe that the Communists were right? The central presence of someone like Naomi Klein in the Vatican climate-change conference indicates the Pope's antipathy for free markets is not merely rhetorical, but a deeply held bias that proceeds from a neo-Communist view of the world that can only bring grief and suffering to the very poor he professes to champion."
 

Spike

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He's religious, anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage, but liberals love him. LMAO.

Limousine liberals, especially


I bet this Pope show is just an elaborate promo tour for his new album!


Pope Francis to Release Pop-Rock Album

As Pope Francis embarks on his historic visit to the United States, His Holiness will spread his message of hope, faith and unity in the form of a prog-rock-infused album titled Wake Up! this November. The Vatican-approved LP, a collaboration with Believe Digital, features the Pontiff delivering sacred hymns and excerpts of his most moving speeches in multiple languages paired with uplifting musical accompaniment ranging from pop-rock to Gregorian chant. Wake Up! arrives November 27th, with the iTunes pre-order now available with an instant download of "Wake Up! Go! Go! Forward!," which Rolling Stone is proud to premiere.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/pope-francis-to-release-pop-rock-album-wake-up-20150925
 

Tibs

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Inspired by Pope Francis' stateside visit, here's a fun-filled activity for all the far right tea-partiers here. Feel free to check them off, one by one...

10 Ways Conservatives Don’t Act Anything Like Christians
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/10-ways-conservatives-dont-act-anything-like-christians/

There’s not a day that goes by where I don’t see some conservative going on and on about how the Republican party is the party of “good Christian values” and everyone else (specifically liberals) is waging some kind of war on religion. It’s just ludicrous. The fact is most liberals couldn’t care less what religion anyone follows. The problem is when some people, specifically conservatives, try to force that religion on others. But here’s the thing, most of these conservatives aren’t really Christians. Going to church doesn’t make someone a Christian. Heck, following the Bible doesn’t even really make someone a Christian. Christianity is based on a belief in Jesus Christ and one’s attempt to live their life based on the values for which he lived.

And I don’t see much of any of that within conservative ideology. So I decided to make a list of 10 ways I don’t believe conservatives act anything like Christians.

1) Homosexuality: It’s amazing how many conservatives seem to base their devotion to their faith on how strong their opposition is to homosexuality. But here’s a fun fact: Jesus Christ never once spoke out against homosexuality.

2) Helping the poor: I’m not quite sure how you call yourself a “Christian” while supporting a political party that vilifies poor people as lazy moochers seeking a handout.

3) They love greed: Isn’t the entire premise of trickle-down economics and unregulated capitalism based on greed? They seem to have no problem chastising a poor family on welfare but they consider anyone “un-American” who dares to call a wealthy person a greedy *******. And for the record, Jesus Christ did speak out against greed. In fact, he warned against it.

4) They’re full of hate: Have you ever been to a tea party rally? I have. I’ve never seen such vile hatred in my life. Just look at the way these people talk about President Obama. There’s a difference between opposing someone’s policies and just perpetuating blinding hate toward another human being. I’ve often joked that they hate President Obama to such an extent that if he cured cancer they’d say he was waging a war on oncologists.

5) Racism: Am I saying all conservatives are racist? Of course not. But I don’t think there’s a coincidence that practically every state that’s currently “strongly Republican” also fought with the Confederacy, opposed desegregation and stood against the Civil Rights Act. And I can’t imagine Jesus Christ endorsing racism.

6) Pro-life hypocrisy: These people will defend the “rights” of a fetus until they’re blue in the face. Yet how many millions of children (you know, what fetuses turn into), and poor people in general, now have less to eat thanks to the Republican insistence on cutting funding for welfare programs - just before the holidays no less. And I’m not sure how you’re “pro-life” while bragging about how many people your state executes every year.

7) Their obsession with guns: You know how “off” mentally you need to be to really believe Jesus Christ would support semi-automatic rifles? But many of these people honestly believe that Jesus Christ would be standing right there next to them with a loaded AR-15 strapped to his back. It’s asinine.

8) They’re intolerant: Conservatives like to perpetuate this idea that it’s actually liberals who are intolerant of other people. You know when liberals get intolerant? When we’re dealing with intolerant people. Look, I don’t care if you oppose homosexuality, abortion or other religions – that’s your choice. But don’t try to restrict the rights of others, or force your views on others, then whine because people eventually get tired of putting up with your crap. Real Christianity preaches acceptance and tolerance of others. That we’re all humans. That we should treat each other with respect and kindness. You know the whole “love thy neighbor” thing.

9) They’re paranoid and afraid: As Christians, aren’t these people supposed to have faith? Didn’t Jesus preach positivity and hope? Then what the hell are so many of them afraid of? These people live in a perpetual state of fear and paranoia. They fear brown people, other religions, the government, liberals, homosexuals – pretty much anything that’s not a heterosexual, white conservative Christian. I’m not quite sure how someone can say they have “faith in God,” while being paranoid and afraid of damn near everything.

10) They base their faith on church attendance: I love these “Christians” who seem to think church attendance makes them a better Christian. I used to work as a server across the highway from two of the biggest mega churches in my city. Can you guess which was the least desired, and worst, shift of the week to work? Sunday morning. The “church crowd.” That was the shift where people were the least patient, rudest, cheapest and complained the most. In my 8+ years in the service industry I lost count of how many times I had notes left on the table that said things like: I gave your tip to Jesus. I tip Jesus 10%, why do you deserve more? Full pamphlets telling me why I’m going to hell. That I should have been at church instead of working.

This is the thing about church – it’s worthless if you walk out of it acting like a prick. You can go to church 7 days a week, but your actions outside of church are what matter most. And that’s where most of these “church attendance” conservative Christians fail miserably. They essentially go to church because they’re told they’re supposed to, and to try to justify to themselves that they’re “good people.” I’ve met plenty of terrible human beings who went to church multiple times every single week. If you walk out of church full of hate and judgement, whatever they’re preaching inside that building sure as hell isn’t Christianity.
 

oneforthebus

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It's interesting that you post this:

It's not shocking to me at all, that those that consider themselves conservatives - here on the board and elsewhere - are mostly upset and antagonistic about the Pope's message. It shows how far people have fallen from the ideals they think they believe in. I hope everyone can find some peace within themselves, and not allow the constant hate, anger and vitriol to dominate their lives.

...followed by a long article about how the Pope's comments "made Republicans squirm". Don't you find it rather hypocritical that you revel in any of the Pope's opinions that "make Republicans squirm" while preaching against hate, anger and vitriol?

The Pope is not a politician nor a national leader. His beliefs do not conform to Republican or Democrat beliefs. Both sides cherry pick what they want to hear, ascribe meaning to a lot of his comments that isn't there, and ignore the rest.

There's no "abortion switcheroo", anyone with even basic familiarity with Catholic teaching knows the Church has long opposed the death penalty. Republicans aren't opposed to immigrants, they're opposed to illegal immigrants...lawbreakers, some of whom come into this country to harm people. Ask Kate Steinle's parents about welcoming illegal immigrants. Etc. etc. etc. If you don't want to be hateful, stop combing through Francis's words for simplistic kernels you think he intended as digs at Republicans. The Pope speaks in broad terms and of broad goals...his remarks are not directed at any one country or any one political party.

I have no hatred or vitriol for the Pope and I agree with a lot of things he says...I just disagree with some of his ideas on how to get there. He's not a historian or an economist. He doesn't seem to address the evil that can arise from communist and socialist systems, the way John Paul II did. He doesn't mention enough that individual liberty, not government control, is historically the source of much of the world's economic justice. It's not hateful to point those things out (although I get that some people point it out in vitriolic fashion), it's just a difference of opinion.
 

oneforthebus

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Inspired by Pope Francis' stateside visit, here's a fun-filled activity for all the far right tea-partiers here. Feel free to check them off, one by one...

10 Ways Conservatives Don’t Act Anything Like Christians
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/10-ways-conservatives-dont-act-anything-like-christians/

There’s not a day that goes by where I don’t see some conservative going on and on about how the Republican party is the party of “good Christian values” and everyone else (specifically liberals) is waging some kind of war on religion. It’s just ludicrous. The fact is most liberals couldn’t care less what religion anyone follows. The problem is when some people, specifically conservatives, try to force that religion on others. But here’s the thing, most of these conservatives aren’t really Christians. Going to church doesn’t make someone a Christian. Heck, following the Bible doesn’t even really make someone a Christian. Christianity is based on a belief in Jesus Christ and one’s attempt to live their life based on the values for which he lived.

And I don’t see much of any of that within conservative ideology. So I decided to make a list of 10 ways I don’t believe conservatives act anything like Christians.

1) Homosexuality: It’s amazing how many conservatives seem to base their devotion to their faith on how strong their opposition is to homosexuality. But here’s a fun fact: Jesus Christ never once spoke out against homosexuality.

2) Helping the poor: I’m not quite sure how you call yourself a “Christian” while supporting a political party that vilifies poor people as lazy moochers seeking a handout.

3) They love greed: Isn’t the entire premise of trickle-down economics and unregulated capitalism based on greed? They seem to have no problem chastising a poor family on welfare but they consider anyone “un-American” who dares to call a wealthy person a greedy *******. And for the record, Jesus Christ did speak out against greed. In fact, he warned against it.

4) They’re full of hate: Have you ever been to a tea party rally? I have. I’ve never seen such vile hatred in my life. Just look at the way these people talk about President Obama. There’s a difference between opposing someone’s policies and just perpetuating blinding hate toward another human being. I’ve often joked that they hate President Obama to such an extent that if he cured cancer they’d say he was waging a war on oncologists.

5) Racism: Am I saying all conservatives are racist? Of course not. But I don’t think there’s a coincidence that practically every state that’s currently “strongly Republican” also fought with the Confederacy, opposed desegregation and stood against the Civil Rights Act. And I can’t imagine Jesus Christ endorsing racism.

6) Pro-life hypocrisy: These people will defend the “rights” of a fetus until they’re blue in the face. Yet how many millions of children (you know, what fetuses turn into), and poor people in general, now have less to eat thanks to the Republican insistence on cutting funding for welfare programs - just before the holidays no less. And I’m not sure how you’re “pro-life” while bragging about how many people your state executes every year.

7) Their obsession with guns: You know how “off” mentally you need to be to really believe Jesus Christ would support semi-automatic rifles? But many of these people honestly believe that Jesus Christ would be standing right there next to them with a loaded AR-15 strapped to his back. It’s asinine.

8) They’re intolerant: Conservatives like to perpetuate this idea that it’s actually liberals who are intolerant of other people. You know when liberals get intolerant? When we’re dealing with intolerant people. Look, I don’t care if you oppose homosexuality, abortion or other religions – that’s your choice. But don’t try to restrict the rights of others, or force your views on others, then whine because people eventually get tired of putting up with your crap. Real Christianity preaches acceptance and tolerance of others. That we’re all humans. That we should treat each other with respect and kindness. You know the whole “love thy neighbor” thing.

9) They’re paranoid and afraid: As Christians, aren’t these people supposed to have faith? Didn’t Jesus preach positivity and hope? Then what the hell are so many of them afraid of? These people live in a perpetual state of fear and paranoia. They fear brown people, other religions, the government, liberals, homosexuals – pretty much anything that’s not a heterosexual, white conservative Christian. I’m not quite sure how someone can say they have “faith in God,” while being paranoid and afraid of damn near everything.

10) They base their faith on church attendance: I love these “Christians” who seem to think church attendance makes them a better Christian. I used to work as a server across the highway from two of the biggest mega churches in my city. Can you guess which was the least desired, and worst, shift of the week to work? Sunday morning. The “church crowd.” That was the shift where people were the least patient, rudest, cheapest and complained the most. In my 8+ years in the service industry I lost count of how many times I had notes left on the table that said things like: I gave your tip to Jesus. I tip Jesus 10%, why do you deserve more? Full pamphlets telling me why I’m going to hell. That I should have been at church instead of working.

This is the thing about church – it’s worthless if you walk out of it acting like a prick. You can go to church 7 days a week, but your actions outside of church are what matter most. And that’s where most of these “church attendance” conservative Christians fail miserably. They essentially go to church because they’re told they’re supposed to, and to try to justify to themselves that they’re “good people.” I’ve met plenty of terrible human beings who went to church multiple times every single week. If you walk out of church full of hate and judgement, whatever they’re preaching inside that building sure as hell isn’t Christianity.

Some more "peace and love" from our resident peacemaker.
 

SteelChip

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Tibs Tibs Tibs....reading that **** will make you go blind. Your author, Allen Clifton is quite the comedian.

Kim Davis Switching to the Republican Party is Absolutely Hilarious

I know, I know…”not another story about this idiot.” Trust me, I really don’t enjoy writing about her either. It’s still baffling to me that she hasn’t been removed from office. Honestly, it’s a disgrace that Kentucky is allowing an elected official to not do her job as the law requires her to do because she doesn’t believe she has to follow the Constitution.

Iranian Extremists and Republicans are Basically the Same Damn People

In this world, extremists (in no matter what walk of life we’re talking about) are basically the people who screw things up for everyone else. Take for instance Iranian extremists and conservative extremists.
Hey Allen ...you forgot to mention the Libtard extremists

Republican Rep. Peter King: Boehner’s Exit Signals ‘The Crazies’ Have Taken Over the GOP
Nuff said

Every other article is about Kim Davis and then a Huckebee attack thrown in for good measure gets me wondering if dear Allen don't like Christians much except the Socialist Pope of course.

pope-francis-11-300x169.jpg


Libtards, ya can't live with um and ya can't live with um either.
 

Tibs

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Some more "peace and love" from our resident peacemaker.
Read basically any thread on here, the posts by those that consider themselves conservative Christians, be it the hate for Obama, immigrants, gays...or the applause and laughter over the death of 700 religious muslims, it goes on and on. You really think you should be calling me out? Because of what? That I dare point out how "un-Christian" these views are?

Don't you find it rather hypocritical that you revel in any of the Pope's opinions that "make Republicans squirm" while preaching against hate, anger and vitriol?
Just the opposite. I don't revel in the fact the Pope makes Republicans squirm, I revel in the fact the Pope calls out intolerance and hatred where he sees it. I revel in the idea that the Pope's message will reach those that are divisive and feed off anger. I revel in the thought that conservatives will find it in themself to be more tolerant, compassionate and accepting of others. It would make the country - and the world - a better place.
 

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If the Pope didn't speak out against gay marriage in the wake of Americas legalization of it, or abortion then he is a fraud.
 

oneforthebus

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I don't really have time right now to go through point by point and type out the blatant hypocrisy, but it would be lost on some people anyway. Suffice it to say it's full of generalizations, exaggerations and criticisms that could just as easily be leveled at many liberals. Gotta love it when people spew hate while supposedly preaching against hate.
 

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Pope Francis’ Marxist Adviser, Naomi Klein

A very high profile anti-Capitalist from Canada named Naomi Klein has been invited by Pope Francis to join forces with Climate Change activist and senior aide to the Pope, Cardinal Peter Turkson. Together they will lead a prominent conference on the environment with churchmen, scientists, and activists. The conference will exclude climate change doubters and moderates.

The Pope had walked back some of his comments on the economy which were anti-Capitalist but Klein says he got it right the first time – we need to overturn Capitalism.

Klein spoke at Occupy Wall Street, is, according to the guardian, is a “ferocious critic of Capitalism”, and a secular radical.

In one of her books, This Changes Everything, she insisted that incremental shifts away from fossil fuels is insufficient. She believes militarism and war are due to climate change.

She once admitted to being a communist but now says she is a socialist. Her father was a radical Marxist and she has said her grandparents were “hardcore communists.”

While she is appalled by capitalism, she manages to live a very comfortable life with her filmmaker and Al Jazeera TV host husband and son, according to The Washington Times.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jun/28/pope-climate-change-naomi-klein



"Despite Francis’ charisma and the way he has galvanized portions of the Catholic community as well as groups that are otherwise harshly critical of Catholicism and of religion in general, his Papacy has generated concerns because of its constant anti-capitalist and anti-development themes. Does he seriously believe, critics have wondered, that the evil and bankrupt creed of socialism, which has murdered more than a hundred million people and condemned hundreds of millions to unimaginable and unnecessary poverty, actually offers a solution for the poor of the world? Does the Pope, in other words, actually believe that the Communists were right? The central presence of someone like Naomi Klein in the Vatican climate-change conference indicates the Pope's antipathy for free markets is not merely rhetorical, but a deeply held bias that proceeds from a neo-Communist view of the world that can only bring grief and suffering to the very poor he professes to champion."

I went to school with her older brother. Her parents were Vietnam draft dodgers who have infected Canada's political, educational and media bureaucracy. Thanks.
 

oneforthebus

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If the Pope didn't speak out against gay marriage in the wake of Americas legalization of it, or abortion then he is a fraud.

Because he said we should have forgiveness and compassion for sinners (something I've been taught in Catholic schools since kindergarten), liberals seized on that and have declared him pro-gay and pro-abortion.
 

oneforthebus

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Read basically any thread on here, the posts by those that consider themselves conservative Christians, be it the hate for Obama, immigrants, gays...or the applause and laughter over the death of 700 religious muslims, it goes on and on. You really think you should be calling me out? Because of what? That I dare point out how "un-Christian" these views are?

You don't think the article you posted is full of hate? You are blind.
 

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You don't think the article you posted is full of hate? You are blind.
I would characterize it as rigorous, stern, opinionated, confrontational and brash, but falls short of being "full of hate." ;)
 

oneforthebus

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How's this for hypocrisy? People who will cry and protest if a dog that mauled a child is humanely put down, but have absolutely no problem at all with unborn human beings being ripped into pieces with no anesthesia. Explain how someone can hold those two views and then talk to me about hypocrisy and vitriol and hate.
 
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The brilliant George Will is spot on regarding this Papal fraud.

http://www.nwfdailynews.com/article/20150924/OPINION/150929690

Supporters of Francis have bought newspaper and broadcast advertisements to disseminate some of his woolly sentiments that have the intellectual tone of fortune cookies.

Francis lectures about our responsibilities but neglects the duty to be as intelligent as one can be. This man who says “the Church does not presume to settle scientific questions” proceeds as though everything about which he declaims is settled, from imperiled plankton to air conditioning being among humanity’s “harmful habits".

Francis grew up around the rancid political culture of Peronist populism, the sterile redistributionism that has reduced his Argentina from the world’s 14th highest per-capita GDP in 1900 to 63rd today. Francis’ agenda for the planet — “global regulatory norms” — would globalize Argentina’s downward mobility.
This Pope probably clings to the liberal belief that socialism has always failed only because it has never been administered correctly

Poverty has probably decreased more in the past two centuries than it has in the preceding three millennia because of industrialization powered by fossil fuels. Only economic growth has ever produced broad amelioration of poverty, and since economic growth began in the late 18th century, it has depended on such fuels.

Didn't watch any of it but the Pope was, or is supposed to say the mass in Spanish. He comes AMERICA and supposedly will celebrate the Mass in Spanish? How many Americans speak Spanish, 12%?
 

Confluence

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Inspired by Pope Francis' stateside visit, here's a fun-filled activity for all the far right tea-partiers here. Feel free to check them off, one by one...

10 Ways Conservatives Don’t Act Anything Like Christians
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/10-ways-conservatives-dont-act-anything-like-christians/

There’s not a day that goes by where I don’t see some conservative going on and on about how the Republican party is the party of “good Christian values” and everyone else (specifically liberals) is waging some kind of war on religion. It’s just ludicrous. The fact is most liberals couldn’t care less what religion anyone follows. The problem is when some people, specifically conservatives, try to force that religion on others. But here’s the thing, most of these conservatives aren’t really Christians. Going to church doesn’t make someone a Christian. Heck, following the Bible doesn’t even really make someone a Christian. Christianity is based on a belief in Jesus Christ and one’s attempt to live their life based on the values for which he lived.

And I don’t see much of any of that within conservative ideology. So I decided to make a list of 10 ways I don’t believe conservatives act anything like Christians.

1) Homosexuality: It’s amazing how many conservatives seem to base their devotion to their faith on how strong their opposition is to homosexuality. But here’s a fun fact: Jesus Christ never once spoke out against homosexuality.

2) Helping the poor: I’m not quite sure how you call yourself a “Christian” while supporting a political party that vilifies poor people as lazy moochers seeking a handout.

3) They love greed: Isn’t the entire premise of trickle-down economics and unregulated capitalism based on greed? They seem to have no problem chastising a poor family on welfare but they consider anyone “un-American” who dares to call a wealthy person a greedy *******. And for the record, Jesus Christ did speak out against greed. In fact, he warned against it.

4) They’re full of hate: Have you ever been to a tea party rally? I have. I’ve never seen such vile hatred in my life. Just look at the way these people talk about President Obama. There’s a difference between opposing someone’s policies and just perpetuating blinding hate toward another human being. I’ve often joked that they hate President Obama to such an extent that if he cured cancer they’d say he was waging a war on oncologists.

5) Racism: Am I saying all conservatives are racist? Of course not. But I don’t think there’s a coincidence that practically every state that’s currently “strongly Republican” also fought with the Confederacy, opposed desegregation and stood against the Civil Rights Act. And I can’t imagine Jesus Christ endorsing racism.

6) Pro-life hypocrisy: These people will defend the “rights” of a fetus until they’re blue in the face. Yet how many millions of children (you know, what fetuses turn into), and poor people in general, now have less to eat thanks to the Republican insistence on cutting funding for welfare programs - just before the holidays no less. And I’m not sure how you’re “pro-life” while bragging about how many people your state executes every year.

7) Their obsession with guns: You know how “off” mentally you need to be to really believe Jesus Christ would support semi-automatic rifles? But many of these people honestly believe that Jesus Christ would be standing right there next to them with a loaded AR-15 strapped to his back. It’s asinine.

8) They’re intolerant: Conservatives like to perpetuate this idea that it’s actually liberals who are intolerant of other people. You know when liberals get intolerant? When we’re dealing with intolerant people. Look, I don’t care if you oppose homosexuality, abortion or other religions – that’s your choice. But don’t try to restrict the rights of others, or force your views on others, then whine because people eventually get tired of putting up with your crap. Real Christianity preaches acceptance and tolerance of others. That we’re all humans. That we should treat each other with respect and kindness. You know the whole “love thy neighbor” thing.

9) They’re paranoid and afraid: As Christians, aren’t these people supposed to have faith? Didn’t Jesus preach positivity and hope? Then what the hell are so many of them afraid of? These people live in a perpetual state of fear and paranoia. They fear brown people, other religions, the government, liberals, homosexuals – pretty much anything that’s not a heterosexual, white conservative Christian. I’m not quite sure how someone can say they have “faith in God,” while being paranoid and afraid of damn near everything.

10) They base their faith on church attendance: I love these “Christians” who seem to think church attendance makes them a better Christian. I used to work as a server across the highway from two of the biggest mega churches in my city. Can you guess which was the least desired, and worst, shift of the week to work? Sunday morning. The “church crowd.” That was the shift where people were the least patient, rudest, cheapest and complained the most. In my 8+ years in the service industry I lost count of how many times I had notes left on the table that said things like: I gave your tip to Jesus. I tip Jesus 10%, why do you deserve more? Full pamphlets telling me why I’m going to hell. That I should have been at church instead of working.

This is the thing about church – it’s worthless if you walk out of it acting like a prick. You can go to church 7 days a week, but your actions outside of church are what matter most. And that’s where most of these “church attendance” conservative Christians fail miserably. They essentially go to church because they’re told they’re supposed to, and to try to justify to themselves that they’re “good people.” I’ve met plenty of terrible human beings who went to church multiple times every single week. If you walk out of church full of hate and judgement, whatever they’re preaching inside that building sure as hell isn’t Christianity.

Tibs,

Attaching politics to faith, and then claiming any moral high ground is hypocritical regardless of which part of the political spectrum it comes from.

But that article was clearly crafted in exactly the same way: it attaches some sort of political assumptions to the religious view and is necessarily hypocritical and therefore garbage.
 

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I expect the usual responses - be it bringing up abortion, defaming the source, crying hypocracy, attacking the Pope for speaking out on political issues - but await the day a single one of you will state that, yes, perhaps elements of far-right politics as personified by the Tea Party and the current GOP has strayed a bit from the basic tenets of Christianity and the teaching of Christ. That admission is clearly too painful to own up to. It's no skin off my back, just pointing out the obvious.
 

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Because he said we should have forgiveness and compassion for sinners (something I've been taught in Catholic schools since kindergarten), liberals seized on that and have declared him pro-gay and pro-abortion.


Even compassion for the murderers of thousands of Christians, most of them probably Catholics in Africa and the Middle East? Did he even bring that up?
 

Rod Farva

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pope_francis_congress3-620x412.jpg


5 amazing ways Pope Francis made Republicans squirm yesterday
http://www.salon.com/2015/09/25/5_a...publicans_squirm_yesterday/?source=newsletter

In his speech to Congress, the pope made one thing very clear: Republicans aren't acting very Christian

Despite all the talk that Pope Francis’ address to Congress wouldn’t be political or partisan, it turns out it was both. And, as I predicted here in Salon, it definitely leaned to one side of the aisle. In fact, if you were a conservative Republican, Thursday morning in the Congress was not your finest moment, as Pope Francis laid bare all the ways that the Republican agenda counters Catholic social teaching, from its harsh treatment of immigrants to its fossil fuel-burning disdain for the natural world.

And Francis’ call for politicians to work for the common good was an implicit rebuke to the do-nothing, obstructionist GOP agenda that’s in service to their corporatist, Chamber of Commerce overlords. “Your own responsibility as members of Congress is to enable this country, by your legislative activity, to grow as a nation. …You are called to defend and preserve the dignity of your fellow citizens in the tireless and demanding pursuit of the common good, for this is the chief aim of all politics,” he said. Wonder if he meant the ones that are being chopped up and sold, too?

Here are the five key moments in Francis’ speech that made conservatives squirm more than any others:

The shout-out to Dorothy Day. Francis commended four Americans in particular, whom he held up as examples of pursuing the common good: Abraham Lincoln, for his pursuit of liberty; Martin Luther King Jr., for his commitment to nonviolence and pluralism; Trappist monk Thomas Merton, for his commitment to dialogue and peace; and Dorothy Day, for her “social activism, her passion for justice and for the cause of the oppressed.”

None of them are exactly conservative, but Day in particular is noted as a radical social activist. She founded the Catholic Worker Movement, which took root during the Great Depression, and urged Catholics to form small, autonomous communities to lead simple lives devoted to the gospel and serving the poor. In addition to being a socialist, Day was outspoken in her support of pacifism and labor rights. “I think it was extraordinary that he cited her as one of the most important people in recent American history. This would be one of the very, very few times that somebody as radical as Dorothy Day was mentioned,” Sen. Bernie Sander told the Washington Post.

The abortion switcheroo. In defiance of the specific guidance not to try to score political points by clapping at partisan applause lines in Francis’ speech, congressional conservatives leapt to their feet the moment Francis delivered the Vatican’s standard coded language about abortion, mentioning “our responsibility to protect and defend human life at every stage of its development.” Imagine their shock when he immediately followed that with, “This conviction had led me, from the beginning of my ministry, to advocate at different levels for the global abolition of the death penalty.” Psych. The comparison of the death penalty to abortion is the most easily defeatable, oldest an lamest equivocation ever........

Catholic social teaching has long put opposition to the death penalty on the same plane as opposition to abortion, most famously with Chicago Archbishop Joseph Bernardin’s “seamless garment” doctrine, which held sway in the mid-1980s as progressive bishops reminded Catholics that opposition to the death penalty and nuclear war was just as important as abortion

Calling arms deals “money drenched in blood.” Speaking of death, what about all those arms deals the Republicans are so fond of? Francis wanted to know who is selling the bad guys all these weapons and why: “Why are deadly weapons being sold to those who plan to inflict untold suffering on individuals and society?” The answer, according to the pontiff, is “money: money that is drenched in blood, often innocent blood. In the face of this shameful and culpable silence, it is our duty to confront the problem and to stop the arms trade.” I’m sure the GOP and all the defense contractors who give them money will get right on that. Lmao....yeah no dem takes defense contractor money and I could have sworn dems had a say in those arms deals.

Reminding the GOP we’re all foreigners. As in his speech at the White House on Tuesday, Francis felt the need to once again remind those who are making intolerance toward immigrants their political stock-in-trade that they, like him, are likely the descendants of immigrant families. “[M]illions of people came to this land to pursue their dream of building a future in freedom,” he said, adding, “We, the people of this continent, are not fearful of foreigners, because most of us were once foreigners. I say this to you as the son of immigrants, knowing that so many of you are also descended from immigrants.”

Catholic social teaching reminds Catholics of their duty to “welcome the stranger.”

In one of the most moving passages of his speech, Francis said, “Let us seek for others the same possibilities which we seek for ourselves. Let us help others to grow, as we would like to be helped ourselves. In a word, if we want security, let us give security; if we want life, let us give life; if we want opportunities, let us provide opportunities.”

You and your ilk have no shame when it comes to repeating lies, because there is truth in the adage that if you repeat a lie often enough it soon becomes belief. I do not condemn immigration, but illegal immigration. Words matter.....you know this yet continue to portray conservatives as anti immigration. It's shameful Tibs.

Confronting the climate naysayers. Francis made it clear that combating climate change, development and technology can coexist. He explicitly rebuked many conservative critics of his climate change encyclical “Laudato si,” who claim that he is anti-commerce and wants to stifle development or reduce the world to subsistence-level farming to stop climate change. “The right use of natural resources, the proper application of technology and the harnessing of the spirit of enterprise are essential elements of an economy which seeks to be modern, inclusive and sustainable,” he said, adding, “In this regard, I am confident that America’s outstanding academic and research institutions can make a vital contribution in the years ahead.”

How is that an explicit rebuke of anyone? It's a benign, general statement that most would agree with.

On the plus for conservatives side, Francis did talk about the need for “the voice of faith to continue to be heard,” but in the case of this particular voice, conservatives probably wish he would just be quiet.

Have you read any of Laudato Si? This pope clearly advocates a faith in government that seems to rival his faith in God. His embrace of secular government to advance his agendas is frightening. I am not a Catholic, but consider myself as a Christian with the usual human flaws.....but reading some Catholic blogs makes it clear that many Catholics disagree with and dislike this pope's world, human and political views. http://www.crisismagazine.com/2015/the-tragedy-of-laudato-si

Inspired by Pope Francis' stateside visit, here's a fun-filled activity for all the far right tea-partiers here. Feel free to check them off, one by one...

10 Ways Conservatives Don’t Act Anything Like Christians
http://www.forwardprogressives.com/10-ways-conservatives-dont-act-anything-like-christians/

There’s not a day that goes by where I don’t see some conservative going on and on about how the Republican party is the party of “good Christian values” and everyone else (specifically liberals) is waging some kind of war on religion. It’s just ludicrous. The fact is most liberals couldn’t care less what religion anyone follows. The problem is when some people, specifically conservatives, try to force that religion on others. But here’s the thing, most of these conservatives aren’t really Christians. Going to church doesn’t make someone a Christian. Heck, following the Bible doesn’t even really make someone a Christian. Christianity is based on a belief in Jesus Christ and one’s attempt to live their life based on the values for which he lived.

And I don’t see much of any of that within conservative ideology. So I decided to make a list of 10 ways I don’t believe conservatives act anything like Christians.

1) Homosexuality: It’s amazing how many conservatives seem to base their devotion to their faith on how strong their opposition is to homosexuality. Speculation.....over ruled. But here’s a fun fact: Jesus Christ never once spoke out against homosexuality.


2) Helping the poor: I’m not quite sure how you call yourself a “Christian” while supporting a political party that vilifies poor people as lazy moochers seeking a handout.

3) They love greed: Isn’t the entire premise of trickle-down economics and unregulated capitalism based on greed? They seem to have no problem chastising a poor family on welfare but they consider anyone “un-American” who dares to call a wealthy person a greedy *******. And for the record, Jesus Christ did speak out against greed. In fact, he warned against it.

Again, a false, over broad generalization.Do you, Tibs set limits on yourself as to how much salary you will accept? Do you want to work harder to improve your station in life? Then by this logic you are a greedy *******. And no conservatives I know would deny help to the truly needy (again, I think you know this but want to continue the lie.......that's some shameful ****.) I donate monthly to Wounded Warriors and Shriners Hospital as well as giving to other charities when solicited or when a particular need is encountered. It's little enough and I'm not bragging by any means. But it has been statistically proven, over and over, that those who identify as "conservative" are more charitable than the oh so compassionate liberal.

4) They’re full of hate: Have you ever been to a tea party rally? I have. I’ve never seen such vile hatred in my life. Just look at the way these people talk about President Obama. There’s a difference between opposing someone’s policies and just perpetuating blinding hate toward another human being. I’ve often joked that they hate President Obama to such an extent that if he cured cancer they’d say he was waging a war on oncologists.

In this case, hate is in the eye of the beholder. I've been an involved member of the Tea Party movement since its inception. The "hatred" doesn't exist, other than the hatred for policies, rule, regulations and stifling actions of a too big and over reaching government. In my experience the TP movement specifically instructs individual participants at rallies to either attempt to use courteous, rational discourse to address the other side, should they be encountered, or to ignore them. Very hateful.

5) Racism: Am I saying all conservatives are racist? Of course not. But I don’t think there’s a coincidence that practically every state that’s currently “strongly Republican” also fought with the Confederacy, opposed desegregation and stood against the Civil Rights Act. And I can’t imagine Jesus Christ endorsing racism.

Holy Heck! Really? The civil ******* war? And if I remember correctly it were dems that fought against the civil rights act.


On this day in 1964, Everett Dirksen (R-IL), the Republican Leader in the U.S. Senate, condemned the Democrats’ 57-day filibuster against the 1964 Civil Rights Act. Leading the Democrats in their opposition to civil rights for African-Americans was Senator Robert Byrd (D-WV). Byrd, who got into politics as a recruiter for the Ku Klux Klan, spoke against the bill for fourteen straight hours. Democrats still call Robert Byrd “the conscience of the Senate.” http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/201...-democrats-filibustered-the-civil-rights-act/



6) Pro-life hypocrisy: These people will defend the “rights” of a fetus until they’re blue in the face. Yet how many millions of children (you know, what fetuses turn into), and poor people in general, now have less to eat thanks to the Republican insistence on cutting funding for welfare programs - just before the holidays no less. And I’m not sure how you’re “pro-life” while bragging about how many people your state executes every year.

Already addressed

7) Their obsession with guns: You know how “off” mentally you need to be to really believe Jesus Christ would support semi-automatic rifles? But many of these people honestly believe that Jesus Christ would be standing right there next to them with a loaded AR-15 strapped to his back. It’s asinine.

Whaaaaaaaat.......?

8) They’re intolerant: Conservatives like to perpetuate this idea that it’s actually liberals who are intolerant of other people. You know when liberals get intolerant? When we’re dealing with intolerant people. Read; people with differeing view points. Look, I don’t care if you oppose homosexuality, abortion or other religions – that’s your choice. But don’t try to restrict the rights of others, or force your views on others, then whine because people eventually get tired of putting up with your crap. Real Christianity preaches acceptance and tolerance of others. That we’re all humans. That we should treat each other with respect and kindness. You know the whole “love thy neighbor” thing.

Don't want to restrict anyone's "rights".....don't want to finance them either.


9) They’re paranoid and afraid: As Christians, aren’t these people supposed to have faith? Didn’t Jesus preach positivity and hope? Then what the hell are so many of them afraid of? These people live in a perpetual state of fear and paranoia. They fear brown people, other religions, the government, liberals, homosexuals – pretty much anything that’s not a heterosexual, white conservative Christian. I’m not quite sure how someone can say they have “faith in God,” while being paranoid and afraid of damn near everything.

Again over broad, mischaracterizing generalization. And again, I think you know it. But rather than putting some thought and effort into posting what you feel or believe I guess it's easier to cut and paste someone else's stuff no matter how bad it is.

10) They base their faith on church attendance: I love these “Christians” who seem to think church attendance makes them a better Christian. I used to work as a server across the highway from two of the biggest mega churches in my city. Can you guess which was the least desired, and worst, shift of the week to work? Sunday morning. The “church crowd.” That was the shift where people were the least patient, rudest, cheapest and complained the most. In my 8+ years in the service industry I lost count of how many times I had notes left on the table that said things like: I gave your tip to Jesus. I tip Jesus 10%, why do you deserve more? Full pamphlets telling me why I’m going to hell. That I should have been at church instead of working.

This is the thing about church – it’s worthless if you walk out of it acting like a prick. You can go to church 7 days a week, but your actions outside of church are what matter most. And that’s where most of these “church attendance” conservative Christians fail miserably. They essentially go to church because they’re told they’re supposed to, and to try to justify to themselves that they’re “good people.” I’ve met plenty of terrible human beings who went to church multiple times every single week. If you walk out of church full of hate and judgement, whatever they’re preaching inside that building sure as hell isn’t Christianity.

Some truth there......there are good and not so good among any sector of people.....but this propensity certainly doesn't encompass ALL Christians or even most, imo. And it may interest you to know that despite the title of your cited article and the attempt to paint them as such, not ALL conservatives claim to be Christians and vice versa.

Read basically any thread on here, the posts by those that consider themselves conservative Christians, be it the hate for Obama, immigrants, gays...or the applause and laughter over the death of 700 religious muslims, it goes on and on. You really think you should be calling me out? Because of what? That I dare point out how "un-Christian" these views are?

Just the opposite. I don't revel in the fact the Pope makes Republicans squirm, Your posting of the article belies that sentence. I revel in the fact the Pope calls out intolerance and hatred where he sees it. I revel in the idea that the Pope's message will reach those that are divisive and feed off anger. I revel in the thought that conservatives will find it in themself to be more tolerant, compassionate and accepting of others. It would make the country - and the world - a better place.

'Nuff said.
 

Tibs

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Hey Rod, I appreciate you taking the time to respond in kind. I'm actually much less of a "libtard" in real life than I am on here. I just feel the need to post an opposing view to offset the discourse that leans so heavily to the right here at SN. If it takes posting a few hot-button articles from time to time that pisses everyone off, so be it. The ratio is still 95-5 on this board. I do whatever I can to insert a tiny sliver of a progressive, non-GOP viewpoint. I consider it my civic duty. ;)
 

steel dino

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Hey Rod, I appreciate you taking the time to respond in kind. I'm actually much less of a "libtard" in real life than I am on here. I just feel the need to post an opposing view to offset the discourse that leans so heavily to the right here at SN. If it takes posting a few hot-button articles from time to time that pisses everyone off, so be it. The ratio is still 95-5 on this board. I do whatever I can to insert a tiny sliver of a progressive, non-GOP viewpoint. I consider it my civic duty. ;)

And you do a mighty fine job of that Tibs!

I agree with the method of your madness!
 
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