Playing a 3-4 defense

[Coach]

If you ask me, you need three key ingredients to run a 3-4 defense, and a wild card or two!

1 ) Very good pass rushing OLB's

2 ) A very good 2 gap NT, capable of stuffing the run and keeping the LB's and Safeties away from Offensive Lineman

3 ) At least one shut down corner.

Wild Cards

** A ILB who can blitz. A Defensive Lineman who can play some coverage. A safety that can blitz.

The Steelers have none of the above. Well Harrison at age 37 can still play, but for how long?

Unless the draft finds these needs quickly, 2016 could be the year we switch to a 4-3. I see a square peg and round hole.

 

[slashsteel]

so one out of six then

 

[Coach]

so one out of six then

That would not even be good in baseball.

 

[Litos]

You need One very good OLB to rush, the other one just have to be decent all around as a rusher and run stopper.

 

[Wingman]

So where do you put in that top 6 coach we have that depending on who you ask had some or no role in getting us here.

 

[Litos]

So where do you put in that top 6 coach we have that depending on who you ask had some or no role in getting us here.

I think there's a 9 pages thread regarding the topic

 

[Coach]

So where do you put in that top 6 coach we have that depending on who you ask had some or no role in getting us here.

To run a 3-4 I would rank the needs as thus:

OLB 1. Harrison meets the requirements if he's healthy

Cb 1. Shut down corner. We don't have this player

NT. Run stuffer. We don't have this player

OLB 2. Should be able to beat right tackles or Te's and backs and get 8-10 sacks. We don't have this player

Cb2. A solid player type who can cover. Gay fits the bill.

IMO only Gay if he is resigned is a long term solution. I'd like to see a pass rusher, corner and nose tackle selected in the first four rounds

 

[TWEEK1106]

Nothing will work, 3-4 or 4-3 until this team can improve it's talent evaluation. When you build your team almost exclusively through the draft you have to be better than mediocre at drafting talent. We're not a great team drafting, and we hang onto some players waaaaay too long, while letting others walk who should be getting long term contracts (Keenan Lewis). That is and has been the major issue with the current regime.

 

[slashsteel]

To run a 3-4 I would rank the needs as thus:

OLB 1. Harrison meets the requirements if he's healthy

Cb 1. Shut down corner. We don't have this player

NT. Run stuffer. We don't have this player

OLB 2. Should be able to beat right tackles or Te's and backs and get 8-10 sacks. We don't have this player

Cb2. A solid player type who can cover. Gay fits the bill.

IMO only Gay if he is resigned is a long term solution. I'd like to see a pass rusher, corner and nose tackle selected in the first four rounds

don't sleep on SS too

 

[bermudasteel]

3 out of 4 beers MUST be ice cold in my six pack..

 

[stillwright]

If you ask me, you need three key ingredients to run a 3-4 defense, and a wild card or two!

1 ) Very good pass rushing OLB's

2 ) A very good 2 gap NT, capable of stuffing the run and keeping the LB's and Safeties away from Offensive Lineman

3 ) At least one shut down corner.

Wild Cards

** A ILB who can blitz. A Defensive Lineman who can play some coverage. A safety that can blitz.

The Steelers have none of the above. Well Harrison at age 37 can still play, but for how long?

Unless the draft finds these needs quickly, 2016 could be the year we switch to a 4-3. I see a square peg and round hole.

While he was our best pass rusher last season doesn't mean he is good. By that I mean he has one move.....And they have a loud LT's to put a choke hold on him which basically neutralizes him 75% of the time. Sad thing is he probably will be our best pass rusher again this season. Our entire front office is at fault for this. This is where FA can help. When you have missed on selections as we have you can plug up a hole with a decent FA signing. I think we dropped the ball again by sitting on our hands. A 2nd tier OLBer or CB would of helped out this year.

 

[Litos]

3 out of 4 beers MUST be ice cold in my six pack..

Why does your six pack only has 4 beers? I think you are getting robbed and haven't realized.

 

[Steelr4evr]

Nothing will work, 3-4 or 4-3 until this team can improve it's talent evaluation. When you build your team almost exclusively through the draft you have to be better than mediocre at drafting talent. We're not a great team drafting, and we hang onto some players waaaaay too long, while letting others walk who should be getting long term contracts (Keenan Lewis). That is and has been the major issue with the current regime.

Bingo! Many years of poor drafting on defense has killed this team. That is the sum of it.Doesn't matter what you run when you don't have the horses in the stable to get the work done.

 

[BLITZ]

having a casey Hampton like nose tackle is the most important thing a 3-4 needs in my opinion. 2nd would be a good to great olb. secondary not as important.

 

[stillwright]

having a casey Hampton like nose tackle is the most important thing a 3-4 needs in my opinion. 2nd would be a good to great olb. secondary not as important.

I would take guy that plays for the Texans....I forget his name. Starts with a W I think.

 

[freak]

Nothing will work, 3-4 or 4-3 until this team can improve it's talent evaluation. When you build your team almost exclusively through the draft you have to be better than mediocre at drafting talent. We're not a great team drafting, and we hang onto some players waaaaay too long, while letting others walk who should be getting long term contracts (Keenan Lewis). That is and has been the major issue with the current regime.

this is the biggest problem we had in recent years

 

[F83]

its time Mcullers gets most of the reps in the 3-4 he showed he can collspse the pocket and be like a coke machine unmovable, at 6"7 360, with a year of conditioning, coach Mitchell and DC Butler will give MT the green light to increase his heps say he comes into camp at 340-350, he should me then getting most of the reps and then coach mitchell said when he is a bit lighter he plans to have him play some De as well, he in some new formations could play DE as the anchor and allow Heyward to play DT and Mclendon as the under DT or Tuitt in 4 DL looks.
Shelton could be a star NT, but a lot are questioning whether as the NT in a 3-4 or the NG in a 4-3, he seems a bit risky hit or miss, Goldman likes like a natural NT that would be a instant upgrade over Mclendon, who I think if there is say a 70-30 ratio of 3-4-4-3 would be better of at the NG, under T or even LE spot in a 4 man DL.

 

[Stryker]

Wasn't everyone supposed to know McClenden's name by now?

 

[FSF]

If you ask me, you need three key ingredients to run a 3-4 defense, and a wild card or two!

1 ) Very good pass rushing OLB's

2 ) A very good 2 gap NT, capable of stuffing the run and keeping the LB's and Safeties away from Offensive Lineman

3 ) At least one shut down corner.

Wild Cards

** A ILB who can blitz. A Defensive Lineman who can play some coverage. A safety that can blitz.

The Steelers have none of the above. Well Harrison at age 37 can still play, but for how long?

Unless the draft finds these needs quickly, 2016 could be the year we switch to a 4-3. I see a square peg and round hole.

Clark Haggans was an okay pass rusher, complimented by Porter -- just get a guy who can do the job as long as you have one standout.
NT -- no question Steed than Hampton were key, but we did fine in 2004 when Hampton went down for the year Hoke was as serviceable as McClendon for short run
More than corner, it seems to me that the SS (Carnell Lake and Troy Polamalu) were more important, especially since we don't really play press coverage.

Wild Cards
Shazier and Timmons are ILBs that I would take for ability to blitz. Give Tuitt a chance (Keisel wasn't a star overnight for the record) and Heyward is a baller period.

I think we have more than you want to give credit for, though we do not have a CB -- much less a shut down corner nor a safety than can blitz.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I think we have a safety that can blitz FSF. It's just that he's playing the wrong safety spot. I think Mitchell would make a better SS, as some on this board have stated and Tomlin recently admitted was a possibility.
But then again, it's possible that he grows into a more than serviceable FS. Clark's first year in out system was not especially good, bordering on bad. But, he grew and became a pretty good FS for us over the years. Still, I think that if they can get a FS with range and the ability to be a ball hawk, Mitchell would make a more than adequate SS.

 

[deljzc]

There is no one potion formula to create a great defense.

There are 11 starting piece and 2 (sometimes 3) contributing pieces to the "unit".

As with everything in football, the game fundamentally is beating the guy across from you one-on-one. When that happens at ANY position on the field it allows good coaches to create more and more confusion and deception in the game plan.

At our peak in the mid-to-late 2000's we had some very good one-on-one players. Harrison was a monster. Polamalu covered more ground in a more unorthodox way that any safety to ever play the game. Woodley could win his matchup. Aaron Smith could win his matchup. Hampton could win his matchup. Depending on the opponent, Ike could hold his own. Keisel was extremely underrated for a few seasons.

You have to have guys that win mano-y-mano. They are the foundation of everything else a defense does. They allow schemes to work. They allow creativity. They allow deception. They allow good coaches to create game plans.

The degradation of our defense has nothing to do with what position is more important that others. It's about the simple fact we don't have enough spots on the field that our guy is just plain a better football player than the guy across from him. We don't "win" when the whistle is blown.

Heyward is close. The inside linebackers are good, but I question their value and how to create mismatches where they can "win" the battles (the middle of the field is always the most congested). We don't have anyone in the secondary that "win" their battles against even average NFL players right now. The OLB's don't win their battles unless you want to hang your hat on a 36 year old player that is 7 years removed from his DPOY trophy.

When you don't have players that can win and execute the play call, it doesn't work. No amount of smoke and mirrors can hide the simple stink our guys just can't line up over a guy and win when the whistle blows way more often than they don't.

 

[Coach]

Deljzc,

I disagree in the context that you need talent needs to be strong in certain areas depending on the scheme. We play a 3-4 defense, and the talent needed to make it go is lacking at the critical spots. OLB, CB, NT.

There is a reason why you'll see many edge rushers and corners drafted high, but few ILB's and S's.

 

[deljzc]

Deljzc,

I disagree in the context that you need talent needs to be strong in certain areas depending on the scheme. We play a 3-4 defense, and the talent needed to make it go is lacking at the critical spots. OLB, CB, NT.

There is a reason why you'll see many edge rushers and corners drafted high, but few ILB's and S's.

But "few" doesn't necessarily mean it can't work if you get the right guy.

I would argue everything Seattle does as a defense is created because of Earl Thomas at free safety. His ability is so unique that it allows all those other defensive backs and linebackers to be so much more aggressive knowing he's back there.

And their pass rush is not predicated on one individually great pass rusher, but incredible depth along their entire front that is available because they pay Wilson so little and can use that money to get people like Cliff Avril and mid-priced pass rushers.

When San Francisco was at their peak as a defense it was very much a product of a 3-4 DE (Justin Smith) and a couple of very good inside linebackers (Wills/Bowman). Justin Smith was so good he made whatever pass rusher was behind him really good. I mean San Fran has used a Ahmad Brooks as an OLB for years and I wouldn't call him an exceptional talent (he's good).

There is no formula. Great players transcend system and help defensive coaches look much smarter than people think.

Honestly, I don't care where a great player plays on our defense, we just don't have any of them right now. We might have some good guys (Heyward, Timmons, Shazier). But it's very hard to me to see or say any of the others are very much above average (Tuitt, Moates, Jones, McLendon, Harrison, Gay, Allen, Polamalu, Mitchell).

We're hoping they are better than average but nothing on tape has proven any of them are and ALL are positions of potential upgrade - especially for the 2015 season.