Pickens would not have had this success here

[bigben]

You have a two tier problem between not having a # 2 and a mediocre offensive line. Every wide receiver combo in the NFL that goes over 1,000 per season for both guys(and there are plenty) beg to differ with what you are saying. I just had that discussion with someone here not long ago who was trying to discredit the idea of a #2 and I listed the many 1 and 2 combos that excel in the NFL.

Now, the mediocre offensive line is helped by having that # 2 especially if he's a great possession guy...think Hines Ward. They are helped because you can scheme for that # 2 and your tight ends coming open quick so the ball can come out quick....

So, now as a defense you can't sit comfortably in your 2 high shell as James Harrison said on his podcast " They had the one safety leaning over to DKs side not even disguising it." And if you don't know what that is saying, it's your opponent saying "your other pass catchers suck and we know it." You have a good # 2 that can make possession catches get fed frequently in a game and you see an opposing D start sliding into 1 high and bring a safety down to help the linebackers on the crossing routes and outs. Now DK is turned loose. It's not rocket science. And of course that scenario is different if you have a consistent running game as well...we don't.

I'll also address the " You won't even hardly use a # 2 in Arthur Smith's offense." argument many around here misunderstand. There is no such thing as an Arthur Smith offense...just like there isn't an Andy Reid offense or Shanahan offense..or anyone you can think of. All modern NFL offenses are descended from Bill Walsh's West Coast Offense. Sure things have changed where you run out of single back or empty and the QB not under center, but it's basically still the same offense with things that have been added like RPOs, zone running, pistol formations, etc. Do you think Brady won all those Super Bowls with some unique and brilliant new offense? Nope, thank or curse Bill Walsh.

Having said that, all NFL offenses customize their philosophy out of that West Coast schematic core to the personnel they have....are you following? So " Arthur Smith's offense" can change on the fly dependent on personnel...because they ALL can...on any team. Do some OCs have a preference they lean toward? Of course they do, but a smart one adapts. Remember Todd Haley at KC before he came to the Steelers? He had a running back duo(forget the guys names) and he pounded every opponent with those guys. Came to Pittsburgh had Ben, AB, Wallace, and later Martavis Bryant...and it became bombs away.

I have no doubt Smith would change his play calling if he had a legit #2.

And the guys you mention(like Jefferson) I don't intimately know what their team personnel looks like...Do they have a good running game? A good O-line? A mobile QB throwing to them? Things that change the dynamic from team to team.

Jefferson is having by far the worst year of his career. He is still far more productive than DK. With a worse QB and worse run game.
Dk is a #2 getting paid like a top 3 WR

Arthur smith is a Bum but, I agree the offense would be night and day better with a true #1 WR

 

[bigben]

Yeah one did. The Steelers. Have a jovial day.

They are looking pretty stupid for it

 

[slashsteel]

They are looking pretty stupid for it

I don’t share that opinion in fact I would like another WR with equal production to pair with him on the other side.

 

[diver]

You have the right to not like Pickens, don't let it blind you from reality.
Pickens is 2nd in the league in yards 3rd in TD.
Dk is 30th in the league
The problem is and has been our front office and coaches.
Florio and Simms on PFT had a 7 minute diatribe on the Disaster the Steelers created by trading for metcalf and trading away Pickens.
Outlining the fact that it cost them 34 million to downgrade the player.

I really don't dislike Pickens, or like him for that matter. It's not about that.

 

[SteelerFan448]

What are you even saying at this point?

The suggestion was Tomlin was not the reason Pickens wasn't as productive here because AB previously had success. Tomlin is absolutely a reason our offense is held back and it's assinine to suggest otherwise.

 

[SteelerFan448]

That's fine because my point was that Tomlin wasn't stopping WR production. I didn't say he created it.

Tomlin is absolutely a huge part of the lack of success from the passing game. Crazy to say otherwise.

 

[NoKap#7]

The suggestion was Tomlin was not the reason Pickens wasn't as productive here because AB previously had success. Tomlin is absolutely a reason our offense is held back and it's assinine to suggest otherwise.

Hes the reason in what sense??

 

[SteelerFan448]

Hes the reason in what sense??

He's the head coach?

 

[NoKap#7]

He's the head coach?

I guess...at this point if Danny Smith trips and chokes to death on his gum its Tomlins fault so im all for putting the blame on him for anything. It is what it is.

 

[slashsteel]

I guess...at this point if Danny Smith trips and chokes to death on his gum its Tomlins fault so im all for putting the blame on him for anything. It is what it is.

Habitual tendencies have to be directed to the root of the result or the lack thereof , right?

 

[NoKap#7]

Habitual tendencies have to be directed to the root of the result or the lack thereof , right?

I was looking for something more concrete to be honest...something more specific that we can directly attribute to him w/o question. Not just saying its his fault, because its convenient and low hanging fruit. For example I have no confidence in Rodgers or Slay starting this Sunday, but if they play this would obviously be a coaching decision. One of the more negative attributes of Tomlin is that he can be stubborn sometimes, prob too much for any of our liking. The eye test is there for him to see that its not a good idea to start either of those players over the better alternatives. If he does start them and they lose to the Bears i can see it flat out being Tomlin's fault because I can see both of those players being a reason for the loss.

 

[slashsteel]

I was looking for something more concrete to be honest...something more specific that we can directly attribute to him w/o question. For example I have no confidence in Rodgers or Slay starting this Sunday, but if they play this would obviously be a coaching decision. One of the more negative attributes of Tomlin is that he can be stubborn sometimes, prob too much for any of our liking. The eye test is there for him to see that its not a good idea to start either of those players. If he does staet them and they lose to the Bears i can see it flat out being Tomlin's fault because I can see both of those players being a reason for the loss.

Nothing more concrete than a playoff track record of futility and even worse losing in an embarrassingly uncompetitive manner.

That is a larger scope compared to a single game oops my bad.

mi scusi!

 

[Gildong Sack]

Jefferson is having by far the worst year of his career. He is still far more productive than DK. With a worse QB and worse run game.
Dk is a #2 getting paid like a top 3 WR

Arthur smith is a Bum but, I agree the offense would be night and day better with a true #1 WR

What has been their opponent defensive strength on a case by case basis? How good is their O-line at pass pro?

Funny how you don't mention Addison...he has 412 yards receiving to Jefferson's 747. That makes life a lot easier for Jefferson...hell if Addison is their #2 then Nailor is 2B or maybe 3...and he has 318 yards receiving so far. I researched that because I don't know their team, but I do know things like this aren't as simple as you think.

DK has 551 yards with NO #2.... What do we have for a #2? Well first of all we don't have a legit 2 , but let's say Austin is it. How many yards does he have? He has 242 yards so far.....LOL. And he is our top receiver not named Metcalf in yards.

How is that helping DK? It's not. That's why teams are able at times to take him(DK) out of games and that leaves Rodgers running for his life looking for one of the scrubs to come open.

 

[Gildong Sack]

If you're paying a WR that much, he shouldn't need someone take the pressure off him. I don't think Adam Theilen is why Justin Jefferson is so good, Jaxson Smith-Njiba is having a great season because teams are worried about their #2? If you're a top WR you should be able to create your owns space.

Addison and Nailor take plenty of pressure off him...about 750 yards worth so far...why would you mention their #4? A 35 year old with 69 yards in 2025.

 

[diver]

I was looking for something more concrete to be honest...something more specific that we can directly attribute to him w/o question. Not just saying its his fault, because its convenient and low hanging fruit. For example I have no confidence in Rodgers or Slay starting this Sunday, but if they play this would obviously be a coaching decision. One of the more negative attributes of Tomlin is that he can be stubborn sometimes, prob too much for any of our liking. The eye test is there for him to see that its not a good idea to start either of those players over the better alternatives. If he does start them and they lose to the Bears i can see it flat out being Tomlin's fault because I can see both of those players being a reason for the loss.

I object to the criticism that Tomlin is Captain Conservative. The facts don't support that because when he had the players to do it, he did. But this is hardly a statement of support for Tomlin. Why doesn't he have the players?

To me that is the concrete that can be tied to him. He is not doing a good enough job evaluating talent and he is not providing the atmosphere to develop players better. The first issue is the most important because it is impacting the second.

 

[topseed]

And the Cowboys presently have a losing record. I guess at least they are entertaining.

This weekend will be interesting when they play the Eagles. I will watch to see how he does against a real good defense.

I love how some of you people actually believe that the Cowboys' below-.500 record is somehow related to the season that George Pickens is having. You do know that defense is a part of their team too...right?

 

[slashsteel]

I love how some of you people actually believe that the Cowboys' below-.500 record is somehow related to the season that George Pickens is having. You do know that defense is a part of their team too...right?

What do you mean by you people.

 

[slashsteel]

All bad jokes aside I am not sure what goes on with the Cowboys on and off their field, inside the locker room, etc. So tough for me to know how much he negatively impacted the team if any.

Equally hard to say what his behavior or the lack there of holds for the future. I am just glad the Steelers don’t have to roll that dice any longer…

 

[WindyCitySteel]

Don't be a goofy. Whether he missed or not on grabbing a QB that has nothing to do with your point. You're making a statement that Tomlin refuses to open up the offense while acknowledging why he hasn't. How insane is that?? Do you just jump on the internet and think how can I contradict myself today?? Do you think we would be having a conversation like this if he had the likes of a Ben, Mahomes, Lamar Jackson, or even Dak at his disposal....so why make such a stupid comment?? If youre going to pile on Tomlin at least be objective in your approach....and not obviously biased, and downright ignorant.

He doesn’t WANT those guys at his disposal. That’s the point. He wants a safe game manager. He blamed TO’s for the missed playoffs in 2018 and overcorrected. The offense looks the same no matter who is the QB now.

 

[WindyCitySteel]

When someone says, "you can't expect him to win in the playoffs because he doesn't have the QB to do it" that's a homer. Alot of coaches have won in the playoffs without a franchise QB, if you're a HOF coach, you can win a game here or there without a franchise QB, he's not even competitive.

Bingo. Cowher was 7-8 in the playoffs w/o Ben, winning playoff games with Kordell, Neil, Tomczak, and Maddox. Noll won a playoff game in Houston with Bubby Brister vs. Warren Moon, another in Denver with Mark Malone vs. John Elway.

 

[diver]

I love how some of you people actually believe that the Cowboys' below-.500 record is somehow related to the season that George Pickens is having. You do know that defense is a part of their team too...right?

The argument has been that Pickens wouldn't have acted up as much if Tomlin had a better offense leading to Pickens having more targets and stats. He has that in Dallas, and he is still acting up. And they have a losing record. Is dealing with him worth it? It isn't leading to greater team success, especially in light of the fact that his actions on occasion may have hurt the Cowboy's chances in a few games. That was my point.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I was looking for something more concrete to be honest...something more specific that we can directly attribute to him w/o question. Not just saying its his fault, because its convenient and low hanging fruit. For example I have no confidence in Rodgers or Slay starting this Sunday, but if they play this would obviously be a coaching decision. One of the more negative attributes of Tomlin is that he can be stubborn sometimes, prob too much for any of our liking. The eye test is there for him to see that its not a good idea to start either of those players over the better alternatives. If he does start them and they lose to the Bears i can see it flat out being Tomlin's fault because I can see both of those players being a reason for the loss.

QB play is an issue, but all you need to do is watch the games over the past 5 years. The QBs, OCs, WRs, etc. have all changed, yet the same problems persist on offense and it's because that is how Tomlin wants to play and win games. It isn't low-hanging fruit. He's the head coach and is responsible for the performance of this team. He's also a coach who would've been fired from 31 other teams and half of P4 college teams for the lack of postseason success.

If you want concrete examples, Tomlin hired Matt Canada as OC, who was completely unqualified to run an NFL offense. He followed it up with Arthur Smith. His passing offenses ranked: 21, 23, 16, 31, 22, 27, and 22. This is the guy who apparently doesn't need WRs to run his offense and throws out 3 TEs or a tackle eligible half the offensive snaps.

Diontae Johnson and George Pickens both had meltdowns because they weren't getting the ball and we shipped them out. DK is on the same pace as Pickens despite the team making him one of the highest-paid receivers in the league. They could've found an option for half the cost to put up those numbers. Two years in a row they didn't acquire a WR2. If Tomlin wanted a WR2, Khan would've got him a WR2.

When you're one of the highest-paid head coaches in the league, hire average to below average coordinators, and haven't won a playoff game since 2016, you deserve every bit of criticism regarding the team's performance.

 

[topseed]

What Aaron did in the first few games of the season is nothing compared to what he's been the last 2 games. He's looked every bit of 42 his last couple of games...his vision is not the same, he can't escape pursuit out the pocket, his accuracy down the field leaves something to be desired, and hes holding on to the ball too long so clearly his reaction time is not the same.

It could be that AS could dig himself out of this offense of ineptitude but I have a hard time seeing him do it with certainly a shell of himself AR at the helm...especially if hes going to continue to play as he has been.

Yeah, I know that Rodgers hasn't played well the past few weeks. That's why I said specifically the early part of the season. Had he had Pickens in this offense since day 1, and the offense was more balanced, maybe he doesn't become this gun shy version that seemingly appeared overnight.

I dont know where youre going or where youre coming from with your Tomlin statement. Hes neither said that nor implied what you stated and as far as i can tell the games havent dictated that philosophy because as far as i can tell they dont run enough in these games especially where Warren has had significant yardage per run. To be honest I dont know of any coach though that doesnt want to dictate the play of the game with the run and emphasizes winning the turnover battle. The only teams that dont try and control the game with the run are those that can't. That's a fact.

I misspoke. What Tomlin said at halftime of the first Bengals game was: "It's simple from my perspective. We have to take care of the football and we gotta stop the run."

Still an ignorant and overly simplistic statement. Yes, not turning the ball over is important, but we've all witnessed the conservative nature the Steelers have had for years now on offense. Not throwing to the middle of the field. God forbid an interception is thrown there. Playing not to lose rather than to win. This overarching losing approach has spanned several coordinators on both sides of the ball. That's where I'm coming from.

 

[topseed]

What do you mean by you people.

@diver and @SteelerSask2, to be specific. Those people.

They bring up a 4-5-1 record as some sort of an indictment on Pickens. It's comical.

 

[topseed]

The argument has been that Pickens wouldn't have acted up as much if Tomlin had a better offense leading to Pickens having more targets and stats. He has that in Dallas, and he is still acting up. And they have a losing record. Is dealing with him worth it? It isn't leading to greater team success, especially in light of the fact that his actions on occasion may have hurt the Cowboy's chances in a few games. That was my point.

Nobody in Dallas gives a shlt if Pickens is "acting up." Just like Tomlin and the Steelers didn't give a shlt when AB was "acting up" while he led the NFL in receiving yards in two different seasons.

The Cowboys are not losing because of GP and his 91 yards receiving a game...why is this so hard for you to comprehend? They have much bigger problems than an occasional personal foul penalty on George Pickens.