Per Mark Madden, AB related

[stillwright]

There's a HUGE difference between AB and Wallace. HUGE.

Doesn't change the fact that it was said we would suffer without Wallace. I am sure they will lock up AB long term and glad. I wish he would buy into the team first concept(a long with a bunch of other players also) but Ben has had a bunch of WR's leave and not do as well as when they were here. I am sure someone else would step up and put up some good numbers if AB was moved...maybe not AB numbers but some very good numbers.

 

[stillwright]

Steelers need to be signing key guys pronto then

While the Steelers have a few dollars to spend so do all the other teams......

 

[Stryker]

I want to consider AB the best receiver in the league, but he just isn't. He's top 5, and his production is elite, however, he does have is flaws.

He can't get open consistently running vertical routes when bracketed.
He lacks the size to break away from strong press coverage.
He disappears when QBs not named Ben are throwing to him.

Now a lot of this is scheme. If Brown was a Patriot, he's a 2000yd receiver. Why? They don't just line up their receivers and tell him to beat the guy in front of them. They run pre snap motion, 1yd picks (legal) and a ton of drags/slants. A guy as quick as Brown, if he is being shut down, you put that ****** in motion, and drag him all the way across the field. No one is sticking with him then. AB is way more talented than Eddleman, Logan, and Welker. He'd be an undefendable legend there!

It seems the only thing our team is willing to do for him is throw quick screens. Which is easier to defend, when they know we run them EVERY FREAKING GAME.

 

[insaniti]

I want to consider AB the best receiver in the league, but he just isn't. He's top 5, and his production is elite, however, he does have is flaws.

He can't get open consistently running vertical routes when bracketed.
He lacks the size to break away from strong press coverage.
He disappears when QBs not named Ben are throwing to him.

Now a lot of this is scheme. If Brown was a Patriot, he's a 2000yd receiver. Why? They don't just line up their receivers and tell him to beat the guy in front of them. They run pre snap motion, 1yd picks (legal) and a ton of drags/slants. A guy as quick as Brown, if he is being shut down, you put that ****** in motion, and drag him all the way across the field. No one is sticking with him then. AB is way more talented than Eddleman, Logan, and Welker. He'd be an undefendable legend there!

It seems the only thing our team is willing to do for him is throw quick screens. Which is easier to defend, when they know we run them EVERY FREAKING GAME.

It's like some of you don't even watch the games. We run AB in motion A TON, we drag him across the field, we give him rub routes, we send him deep, we give him outs to the sidelines... We do everything we can to get the ball into his hands when that's the gameplan.

ANY WR is going to have a difficult time getting open on vertical routes when they are bracketed, the issue isn't Brown here, the issue is having a legitmate number 2 WR to help keep that bracketing to a minimum.

And for the love of God, I'm sick and tired of hearing that Brown disappears when Ben isn't the QB. This is such utter horse ****, and just completely false. First of all, you don't have a large enough sample size to compare the difference between Ben and another QB throwing to Brown. It's not like Ben has retired and we have another QB for an entire year throwing to Brown. Second, the only time Brown hasn't produced without Ben under center was when it was ******* Mike Vick starting at QB.

Against NE with Landry Jones at QB, Brown had 7 catches for 115 yards. The year before, against KC with Landry Jones, 6 catches 124 yards. It's not that he needs Ben, he just needs at least an average QB, and Mike Vick was not that for us, he wasn't even close to that with us.

 

[Stryker]

We didn't run AB in motion much in the AFCC game. You see NE do it each and every play. That is my problem with the play calling.

The best receivers, with height, can break bracketed coverage. It's not AB's fault, and sometimes he can make a spectacular play, but Julio Jones, and Dez is going to split the double team, high point the ball, and make a catch at times, where AB can't get that type of height.

It's not horseshit, it's a trend. And he has what, one 100yd game with Landry? Great job vs NE, considering we were down big and he had soft coverage.

Don't get me wrong, I do think AB is an exceptional receiver, I just don't think he is the best receiver in the league today, as he's working out a new contract.

 

[TDX27]

It's tough for any WR to get open facing constant double and triple team coverage. Jones is great, no doubt but he will face single and some double coverage. Teams didn't care about our other WR's because no one was getting open. AB has put up phenomenal numbers facing double and triple coverage. It's rare he faces single coverage and if he does, Ben should and probably does throw to him almost every time.

 

[jitter77]

I still don't understand the love for wheaton on here. He is not a legit #2...he is no different than what we have right now. If AB leaves the WR core will definitely suffer, but I think Rogers will step up a bit and hopefully Bryant sorts out his probs. It won't be the end of the world. If brown is chasing money he will end up on a crappy team and his numbers will plummet.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I still don't understand the love for wheaton on here. He is not a legit #2...he is no different than what we have right now. If AB leaves the WR core will definitely suffer, but I think Rogers will step up a bit and hopefully Bryant sorts out his probs. It won't be the end of the world. If brown is chasing money he will end up on a crappy team and his numbers will plummet.

Wheaton is at best a #3 on any team. I don't dislike the guy but he is who he is.

 

[deljzc]

I've said this before but the team to trade him to is Dallas. It just makes so much sense for them to consider it because they can afford him when their QB and RB are under rookie contracts. And the Jones' know they can't REALLY depend on Bryant.

The question I guess is whether the #28 overall pick is enough and what the real value the Steelers would need to pull that trigger.

I don't think it happens regardless but that's the only team that kind of makes sense to me. I mean sure, I guess Houston could try make a lateral switch from Hopkins to Brown. And I could see Carolina being interested, but are they going to part with the #8 pick AND shell out $15 million/year?

I know Pittsburgh is supposedly getting calls about his availability but I'm not sure how many realistic spots are out there that are capable of paying what the Steelers really need to make the deal happen.

 

[Drink IRON City]

What's lost in this is brown is playing with a hof qb... he's allowed to do what he wants to get open and Ben hits him. Put him in the jets or 49ers offense watch his numbers plummet. Our problem is the receiver pipeline is dry. If we had to go into next season without brown I don't see anyone on the roster that comes close to picking up the slack like he did when Wallace and sanders left. More problems from poor drafting.

Isn't this the truth. One thing though as you mention Mike Wallace. He was a one trick pony and never went after any combat receptions. AB is heads and shoulders above Wallace and Sanders so NOT even a comparison. True, AB has baggage and I hope maturity may settle some of that but make no mistake he is by far the BEST WR the STEELRS have had in a long time. He will get signed and signed for agreeable vs production money. I hope his work / production / law abiding / chemestry / team player / all stay in tact and a minimum of three year deal. THAT is our window.




Salute the nation

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Isn't this the truth. One thing though as you mention Mike Wallace. He was a one trick pony and never went after any combat receptions. AB is heads and shoulders above Wallace and Sanders so NOT even a comparison. True, AB has baggage and I hope maturity may settle some of that but make no mistake he is by far the BEST WR the STEELRS have had in a long time. He will get signed and signed for agreeable vs production money. I hope his work / production / law abiding / chemestry / team player / all stay in tact and a minimum of three year deal. THAT is our window.

As mentioned in the past, remember that Wallace hasn't done nearly as well with other teams where he didn't have as good a QB. Also remember the Ravens when they gave one guy all the money.
I like AB but I don't want to have to cut or not be able to resign two or three other good players to fit him under the cap either, although I think right now we're in pretty good shape versus the salary cap.

 

[Drink IRON City]

As mentioned in the past, remember that Wallace hasn't done nearly as well with other teams where he didn't have as good a QB. Also remember the Ravens when they gave one guy all the money.
I like AB but I don't want to have to cut or not be able to resign two or three other good players to fit him under the cap either, although I think right now we're in pretty good shape versus the salary cap.

I hear you RON and I meant that an Ideal situation would be a 3year deal. At that time reevaluate. I don't want all the money for one player either as that affects the rest of the team. To bad AB didn't have a glorified massage parlor that distributed supplements, we could funnel some $$$coin$$$ through that some how,...............




Salute the nation

 

[Coryea]

It's like some of you don't even watch the games. We run AB in motion A TON, we drag him across the field, we give him rub routes, we send him deep, we give him outs to the sidelines... We do everything we can to get the ball into his hands when that's the gameplan.

ANY WR is going to have a difficult time getting open on vertical routes when they are bracketed, the issue isn't Brown here, the issue is having a legitmate number 2 WR to help keep that bracketing to a minimum.

And for the love of God, I'm sick and tired of hearing that Brown disappears when Ben isn't the QB. This is such utter horse ****, and just completely false. First of all, you don't have a large enough sample size to compare the difference between Ben and another QB throwing to Brown. It's not like Ben has retired and we have another QB for an entire year throwing to Brown. Second, the only time Brown hasn't produced without Ben under center was when it was ******* Mike Vick starting at QB.

Against NE with Landry Jones at QB, Brown had 7 catches for 115 yards. The year before, against KC with Landry Jones, 6 catches 124 yards. It's not that he needs Ben, he just needs at least an average QB, and Mike Vick was not that for us, he wasn't even close to that with us.

What about the other games without Ben, how'd he do? Burress, Ward, Holmes, Wallace, now AB, all had Ben throwing them the ball and we moved on without them too.
As long as you have a good qb, that makes a huge difference. Ben had 300 plus at Denver, vs the #1 ranked defense that killed Brady and Newton, in the playoffs last year without AB. Atlanta went 6-0 without Julio Jones this season. I'd like to keep him but not if it means paying him that much.

 

[insaniti]

We didn't run AB in motion much in the AFCC game. You see NE do it each and every play. That is my problem with the play calling.

The best receivers, with height, can break bracketed coverage. It's not AB's fault, and sometimes he can make a spectacular play, but Julio Jones, and Dez is going to split the double team, high point the ball, and make a catch at times, where AB can't get that type of height.

It's not horseshit, it's a trend. And he has what, one 100yd game with Landry? Great job vs NE, considering we were down big and he had soft coverage.

Don't get me wrong, I do think AB is an exceptional receiver, I just don't think he is the best receiver in the league today, as he's working out a new contract.

Are you blind? I just posted stat lines from TWO separate games that Brown played with Landry Jones the past two years and BOTH were 100 yard games. Again, the only games Brown didn't produce when Ben wasn't starting was with Vick at QB, and NO ONE produced.

You want to say the NE game was soft coverage because we were down big? The final score was 27-16, it was 14-10 at half time. Brown had 93 yards at half time, and had it not been for a BS holding penalty on Hubbard, we would have gone into the locker room tied at 14 at the half. I think people forget how close that game actually was, had Ben played in that game, we win it going away, even if the Defense **** the bed in the second half like they did.

NE came out in the second half and shifted their defensive focus onto Brown instead of Bell.

 

[Punxsutawney]

What about the other games without Ben, how'd he do? Burress, Ward, Holmes, Wallace, now AB, all had Ben throwing them the ball and we moved on without them too.
As long as you have a good qb, that makes a huge difference. Ben had 300 plus at Denver, vs the #1 ranked defense that killed Brady and Newton, in the playoffs last year without AB. Atlanta went 6-0 without Julio Jones this season. I'd like to keep him but not if it means paying him that much.

The difference is that there is currently no Wallace to replace Holmes or no Brown to replace Wallace.

What would they be replacing Brown with, exactly? Bryant is a great talent/potentially great player, but how dependable is he?

Roethlisberger is getting close to the end of his career. Taking one of the game's elite receivers away from him at this point makes little sense.

I tend to think the Steelers have a one to three year window to win another title, as I do believe Roethlisberger is seriously contemplating retirement.

They need to keep Brown, keep Bell, keep Bryant off the wacky smoke, and hope both full seasons from Heyward and Dupree and experience from Burns and Davis on defense will be enough to put them over the top.

The franchise is likely going to fall on some hard times once Roethlisberger retires, especially with Tomlin as coach. As a fan, I would not really concern myself with the longer term ramifications of salary cap space and the like.

 

[Drink IRON City]

I fully agree on the 3 year window. THAT is why we need players who can contribute NOW, not in three years from now. FA acquisitions must be on the contribute now and High enough level to make an impact. AB can be treated as one of those players for the 3 year window.



Salute the nation

 

[Coryea]

Punxsy, when we let Wallace go, we didn't know fully what we had in AB at the time either. I'm all for keeping him, but not at that price, no way, he's not better than Julio Jones or Dez Bryant IMO. I know it's against Steeler Nation rules to bring up the baggage with him, but there is some. Hopefully he'll mature, but the Ron Cook thing about his routes came from a Steeler source, he's not a team first guy, he's complained on a few occasions about not getting the ball enough after wins to the point Heath Miller of all people had to tell him to shut the hell up, another occasion Ben wouldn't even speak to him until the following day and Ben gave him hell. He was pissy after he didn't score the TD at NE. The Facebook live thing, with rest of the young WR's following his lead even after Ben walked by and said come on coach is here, they paid him no mind, and then didn't even listen to Tomlin. He has a presser to apologize, and he's almost an hour late to that because he's getting his hair cut on snap chat???? Then he totally emasculated Tomlin while on radio row during lowB repuS week, Tomlin was very harsh on Brown at the presser after the KC game, then when AB was asked about what Tomlin said to him, he says coach wasn't really mad and that Tomlin had to come across angry to the media. Then after his flags for celebrating, Tomlin said I spoke to AB about that, a couple days later AB says, no Coach hasn't talked to me about that. The Dallas game he just runs out of bounds, with no time on the clock, didn't even try to cut it back across the field, lateral, nothing. Pretty much every media guy that follows the Steelers (Bouchette, Cook, Dulac, Stan, etc) all say Ben is getting tired of his act as well.
So if we give him that kind of money he needs to grow up and become a team first guy. Ok let me hear everyone ***** about me being an AB hater now.

 

[Steelerfan81]

As mentioned in the past, remember that Wallace hasn't done nearly as well with other teams where he didn't have as good a QB. Also remember the Ravens when they gave one guy all the money.
I like AB but I don't want to have to cut or not be able to resign two or three other good players to fit him under the cap either, although I think right now we're in pretty good shape versus the salary cap.

Mike Wallace was only a deep route WR. AB is everything. I can't wait till he's re-signed.

 

[Litos]

Punxsy, when we let Wallace go, we didn't know fully what we had in AB at the time either. I'm all for keeping him, but not at that price, no way, he's not better than Julio Jones or Dez Bryant IMO. I know it's against Steeler Nation rules to bring up the baggage with him, but there is some. Hopefully he'll mature, but the Ron Cook thing about his routes came from a Steeler source, he's not a team first guy, he's complained on a few occasions about not getting the ball enough after wins to the point Heath Miller of all people had to tell him to shut the hell up, another occasion Ben wouldn't even speak to him until the following day and Ben gave him hell. He was pissy after he didn't score the TD at NE. The Facebook live thing, with rest of the young WR's following his lead even after Ben walked by and said come on coach is here, they paid him no mind, and then didn't even listen to Tomlin. He has a presser to apologize, and he's almost an hour late to that because he's getting his hair cut on snap chat???? Then he totally emasculated Tomlin while on radio row during lowB repuS week, Tomlin was very harsh on Brown at the presser after the KC game, then when AB was asked about what Tomlin said to him, he says coach wasn't really mad and that Tomlin had to come across angry to the media. Then after his flags for celebrating, Tomlin said I spoke to AB about that, a couple days later AB says, no Coach hasn't talked to me about that. The Dallas game he just runs out of bounds, with no time on the clock, didn't even try to cut it back across the field, lateral, nothing. Pretty much every media guy that follows the Steelers (Bouchette, Cook, Dulac, Stan, etc) all say Ben is getting tired of his act as well.
So if we give him that kind of money he needs to grow up and become a team first guy. Ok let me hear everyone ***** about me being an AB hater now.

I think he'll be kept but at a midpoint, 14M avg and that's ok for a top 3 WR

 

[DBS1970]

I don't see him getting that.

 

[Confluence]

AB is a known commodity to the Steelers. I suspect they understand his free market value, and relative value to the team. With that knowledge, his personality quirks/needs, and the understanding of modern pro athletes, they will find a way to make a deal. 5 for 75 seems about right. But if it is 10 more, and gets a ring, fine. That is the unknown.

 

[insaniti]

The hate for AB is absolutely unbelievable. First and foremost, AB HAD shown a glimpse of what he was capable of when we gave him the contract that Wallace turned down, go back and look at the stats, there were signs. We have nothing even resembling that on the roster after AB.

Second, anyone that thinks Dez is anywhere near as good as AB is flat out smoking crack.

 

[Omar10213245]

Punxsy, when we let Wallace go, we didn't know fully what we had in AB at the time either. I'm all for keeping him, but not at that price, no way, he's not better than Julio Jones or Dez Bryant IMO. I know it's against Steeler Nation rules to bring up the baggage with him, but there is some. Hopefully he'll mature, but the Ron Cook thing about his routes came from a Steeler source, he's not a team first guy, he's complained on a few occasions about not getting the ball enough after wins to the point Heath Miller of all people had to tell him to shut the hell up, another occasion Ben wouldn't even speak to him until the following day and Ben gave him hell. He was pissy after he didn't score the TD at NE. The Facebook live thing, with rest of the young WR's following his lead even after Ben walked by and said come on coach is here, they paid him no mind, and then didn't even listen to Tomlin. He has a presser to apologize, and he's almost an hour late to that because he's getting his hair cut on snap chat???? Then he totally emasculated Tomlin while on radio row during lowB repuS week, Tomlin was very harsh on Brown at the presser after the KC game, then when AB was asked about what Tomlin said to him, he says coach wasn't really mad and that Tomlin had to come across angry to the media. Then after his flags for celebrating, Tomlin said I spoke to AB about that, a couple days later AB says, no Coach hasn't talked to me about that. The Dallas game he just runs out of bounds, with no time on the clock, didn't even try to cut it back across the field, lateral, nothing. Pretty much every media guy that follows the Steelers (Bouchette, Cook, Dulac, Stan, etc) all say Ben is getting tired of his act as well.
So if we give him that kind of money he needs to grow up and become a team first guy. Ok let me hear everyone ***** about me being an AB hater now.

Yeah i think you can drop the ron cook story nonsense now, i've seen nothing to indicate any legs to that "source's" story

Just take a deep breath, it'll be fine

 

[Coryea]

Yeah i think you can drop the ron cook story nonsense now, i've seen nothing to indicate any legs to that "source's" story

Just take a deep breath, it'll be fine

If it were a national guy, I'd agree, but a local guy that travels to all the games and is in the locker room wouldnt make something like this up. That would almost be career suicide to go against the Steelers like that.

 

[TDX27]

The hate for AB is absolutely unbelievable. First and foremost, AB HAD shown a glimpse of what he was capable of when we gave him the contract that Wallace turned down, go back and look at the stats, there were signs. We have nothing even resembling that on the roster after AB.

Second, anyone that thinks Dez is anywhere near as good as AB is flat out smoking crack.

The hate is amazing considering most on here were whining that the Steelers should have torn up his contract over the past 2 years. Now, that it is time to pay the man, everyone seems to hate on AB. The Steelers stuck to their guns. He signed a very good contract for his last contract. He was overpaid but quickly outperformed the contract. So, now, they are going to stick to their word and pay him. I don't want them to break the bank but he is going to be paid like a top 3 WR whether the Steelers do it or he leaves in a year. He easily has 4 years left in him. Jerry Rice played at a pretty high level until he was like 40. AB is probably the best conditioned WR out there and he isn't even 30 yet.