Pending Contract Alteration, Roethlisberger To Return in 2021
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Sure it is. He could get more elsewhere. Don't fool yourself into thinking a team won't overpay an aging franchise QB with something still left in the tank. Sure he won't be suffering for money he just will be getting less than the Steelers would normally give him due to cap restrictions. He wants to play and stay so he will eat that. As he still will get millions and still has banked a **** load of Steeler money and he knows it. Fans want to minimize everything Ben does good. The man has a love for the Steelers and wants one more season. Like I said to the spitting dragons for quite some time is if anything I have faith in is our teams ability to screw with the cap. Their biggest challenge this time but I think they are up to the task.
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I posted this in another thread, but perhaps of interest in this thread:
Remember, the "amortized cost" line represents previous bonuses paid. These can not be recouped. They can be amortized again, but they come due when Ben is done with the team (i.e., retire, trade, cut). I believe the could be spread across two years if he is cut as a post June 1 cut.
The Roster bonus line is the 15M he is due if on the roster at the start of the new league year (early March).
The salary of 4M I had just left alone as the original exercise was to see what current money looked like if it were amortized out. Again, any new money he takes in bonus or salary in a new deal has to be added to the above.
Remember, the "amortized cost" line represents previous bonuses paid. These can not be recouped. They can be amortized again, but they come due when Ben is done with the team (i.e., retire, trade, cut). I believe the could be spread across two years if he is cut as a post June 1 cut.
The Roster bonus line is the 15M he is due if on the roster at the start of the new league year (early March).
The salary of 4M I had just left alone as the original exercise was to see what current money looked like if it were amortized out. Again, any new money he takes in bonus or salary in a new deal has to be added to the above.
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This isn't madden football. We both know it takes a lot of physicality / endurance / grind / gumption / hard work / etc. to put in the year of football. ONLY Ben can decide that value of all the work needed. What ever he decides will be what he thinks is best and if it's to much $$coin$$, like Art Deuce said........ it won't happen. They will come to an amicable deal and I thiunk BEN's drive for a championship will play out in respects to the money side as well.
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This is easily my favorite part of the conversation. Without adding new money:
1: Some of it has to be new, cause he already spent or saved the old and he sure as **** ain't playing for free.
2. You are adding 11 million in 2022. That is a good player's salary right there.
That is right. In my original post, I pointed out that there is no reason to believe he will play for free. He will get something so the monies go up from what I posted. Moreover, the more years you amortize costs, the more that comes due when he does retire/trade/cut. It is true we have like 170M under cap in 22, but we also only have like 17 or 20 players under contract for 22 with some big names coming due in Watt and Minkah.
To me they have to get away from the WE WILL be this and this in 2022. You end up paying against the cap for performance you already received which is just a terrible financial model. Pay what you can afford now, clean out some of the talent that cannot help you in 3-4 years and keep the ones that can. If you are fiscally responsible, you will be able to sign FAs to fill holes when the time comes. Then all you need is a long term QB and a HC.
I hear you on the pay for performance. Alas, this is what the NFL Owners and NFLPA came up with for a system with the FA and why there are so many players wanting guaranteed money. Remember all the back end loaded contracts that players signed but knew they would never see the end of in the early days of FA? All those players inked those deals just cuz it looked great to be "the highest paid guy". Then they started saying, "Why sign that deal when I won't see it. We want that guaranteed cash." The owners appeased that with big fat amortized bonuses. Players got paid and happy. Teams got top talent. Everybody got fat at the table. Alas, the bill eventually comes due. Both NFL and NFLPA created this beast.
The contract that hurts right now is the Franchise QB. And, to some extent, that is understandable since Franchise QB is kinda tough to find. It isn't like we are the only team putting a lot of bones into franchise QB's. Look at Wentz and see how that is killing Philly. Darnold will cost something like 30m in dead money for NYJ to cut/trade. KC put a lot into Mahomes - sooner or later that will start to hurt unless the new TV contract is ridiculous. That said, I was concerned when they did the two year extension on Ben because of the 40M hit that would come due in 21. Moving on from a Franchise QB contract is painful. Sadly, for PIT, it is exasperated by the pandemic issues. The real question now is how to navigate the books now. If they don't redo Ben in some way they are in significant trouble in 21 given the number of FA's we have. Just getting to a full roster will be a challenge.
I get the guaranteed money part. Pretty sure Shazier wishes he would have gotten to a guaranteed contract before his injury or Bud for that matter. The problem for me is when you lengthen the contract adding guaranteed money to jimmy the cap. It inevitably catches up. And its coming home to roost for the Steelers yet they want to compound it by adding a year to Ben's deal when the window really couldn't be much more shut.
Like if I believed the Steelers were going to contend for a championship next season I wouldn't care if they pushed 30 million down the road. But if your eyes didn't open this season to reality here, I just don't know what to say.
Like if I believed the Steelers were going to contend for a championship next season I wouldn't care if they pushed 30 million down the road. But if your eyes didn't open this season to reality here, I just don't know what to say.
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Yup. I get it. doing a new deal just kicks the can down the road a bit. Not sure what the plan was without Covid. It was going to be a problem when they did the last can kicking. They went all in on Ben for a SB run this year. It failed. Now they have to pay the piper and they got a little bit of Pennywise the Pandemic Clown to go with it unexpectedly. As such, they can only do two things - lose ben via retirement/cut or do a new deal. Sounds like Deuce is leaning the later assuming Ben plays nice in the sandbox. Time will tell.
FWIW - Dale (I think) said in his QA yesterday that there is some meeting between NFL and NFLPA in Feb to discuss the cap issues.
You won't get the franchise to rush to get rid of Ben. If they can work the numbers he will be back. Than can has been kicked for a long time and until Ben is gone it will be kicked again. The fans wishing him gone is going to lose it after the Steelers of regular season start to resemble postseason Steelers. Yeah a lot of ugly not just late season collapses.
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My question is, what the fk is Ben going to do next year, that he couldn't have done this year. He's all of a sudden going to be mobile again, his arms going to be stronger, he's going to see the field better. He needs to get one more 8-8 year under his belt.? Coming back doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.
Where shall I begin.. Let's see, the play calling is going to change with Fichtner gone, there is hope the OL is going to improve some with play and coaching which will then improve the run game so it can be better than dead last in the league, the WRs are going to get better with another year under their belts, Ben was coming off a major elbow surgery after missing a full year of playing.. is is possible he can play better than last season(33 TDs, 10INTs) I think so. Ben and the WRs/Ebron have another year of getting on the same page.
There is more to a successful offense than Ben's arm strength and mobility. Clearly, some people don't understand that. Ben shouldn't have to carry the entire offense, similar to other QBs in the NFL.
The team was 12-4 last year, why would you assume 8-8.
We are losing some major players and have an idiot for a head coach and we play a very difficult schedule after playing the easiest schedule in the league this year. Ben is old, slow and can't escape pressure and the OLine will be poor again this year, maybe one of the worst in the league without huge upgrades which is unlikely given out cap situation.
I wouldn't assume 8 and 8 but it is possible. Well new O-line has to mesh, Ben is a year older he can improve,stay steady or decline. One WR gone could see a drop off in corps play. Defense could be weakened with Haden a year older and Bud possibly gone. Defensively the same play callers, the hardest strength of schedule anddd a head coach that sees his team nose dive in the second part of a season.... Go down more than a 20 dollar hooker.
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i dont want to, but i kinda agree with lemmy. Lets see ben doing 7 step drops. I dont think i seen him do this once this year . I can be proven wrong.. I hope i am. But bens a statue back there. IMO. This is the part of his game that he has lost or needs to find again.
The rest of this team can stay the same. If Ben improves his legs/ moves we can move forward.
The rest of this team can stay the same. If Ben improves his legs/ moves we can move forward.
Yeah, after he finished off the season with a 1-4 record, let's pay a 39-year-old quarterback on his last leg $60 million dollars for one more go!
Let's also put down the crack pipe, while we're at it.
From the article:
"The Steelers could get an additional $12.5 million of cap relief with a Roethlisberger retirement. The NFL's collective bargaining agreement allows a team to recoup the remaining signing bonus proration in a contract from a player when he retires. The $12.5 million is the remaining proration from the $37.5 million signing bonus Roethlisberger received in the 2019 extension. It's hard to imagine the Steelers asserting those rights with Roethlisberger if his 17-year tenure in Pittsburgh comes to an end this way."
If Ben truly doesn't care about his pay in 2021, and he truly wants to help the team however he can this year (and going forward), he would retire and allow them to take back the prorated signing bonus money of $12.5 million, thus reducing the Steelers' cap hit this year to less than $10 million with nothing more to come.
But, of course, we all know that will never happen.
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Here's where I begin:
1) Maybe the playcalling improves under Canada...or maybe it doesn't. Most of us were hopeful when Sphincter took over -- how'd that work out?
2) How are you going to wave a wand and magically make the offensive line better "with play and coaching"? If Ben comes back, so probably will Pouncey, and he sucks. I don't know what happened to DeCastro and Villanueva, but they are shells of what they were a few years ago; AV is probably gone anyway. Feiler stinks at guard, but they insist on playing him there; he's probably gone too. Okorafor is average at best, and that's being kind. Dotson had an above average rookie season; not sure why everyone thinks this guy is the best thing since sliced bread. For depth they have Hassenhauer, who sucks, and maybe a decent player in Banner, but he's coming off ACL surgery if he does return. So they need to use 2 of their first 3 picks on the O-line, start both immediately, and assuming they're any good in their first NFL season, you've still got an average line.
3) JuJu most likely won't be back, they have no depth at tight end, and two of the four main targets have major drop problems to iron out.
4) Maybe Ben plays better a year removed from his surgery...or maybe he doesn't. What I know for sure is that another year of aging is not going to make the guy any more mobile, and that was the main key to his success earlier in his career.
The team was also 1-5 in its last 6 games, including an embarrassing playoff loss to the Cleveland Browns. With a much more difficult schedule, 8-8 might be the ceiling.mdk2 said:
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What’s the point on bringing him back? Did we not see him throwing multiple picks in yet another playoff game? We need to bite the bullet and move on. Were wasting money. It’s time to rebuild and get on with it.
I think some of you are delusional in this thread.
Did Ben play great this season? Nope. Did he look terrible? Nope.
Nobody was bitching when we were 11-0, but I was skeptical the entire season. They didn't pass the eye test for me, even when we were winning. The line sucks, no run game.
I think Ben will be fine, even though he looked "off" on some throws this season, we don't know why. Maybe he's still figuring out the new elbow, maybe the knee, maybe the play calling didn't suit him. Who knows, but I for one am willing to stick with the guy as i believe he gives us the best chance to win. He's always at his best when he's being bad mouthed, let's see what he's got with more time getting to know that elbow.
This rebuild some of you seem to be touching your dicks about may take 10 years
You ain't winning **** without a QB and we do not have one behind Ben.
We could draft in the top 5 for the next 10 years and still not find the right one.
Be careful what you wish for, many of us remember the 80's.
Either way, Canada has got to be an upgrade, I'm actually excited about some new coaching blood.
Did Ben play great this season? Nope. Did he look terrible? Nope.
Nobody was bitching when we were 11-0, but I was skeptical the entire season. They didn't pass the eye test for me, even when we were winning. The line sucks, no run game.
I think Ben will be fine, even though he looked "off" on some throws this season, we don't know why. Maybe he's still figuring out the new elbow, maybe the knee, maybe the play calling didn't suit him. Who knows, but I for one am willing to stick with the guy as i believe he gives us the best chance to win. He's always at his best when he's being bad mouthed, let's see what he's got with more time getting to know that elbow.
This rebuild some of you seem to be touching your dicks about may take 10 years
You ain't winning **** without a QB and we do not have one behind Ben.
We could draft in the top 5 for the next 10 years and still not find the right one.
Be careful what you wish for, many of us remember the 80's.
Either way, Canada has got to be an upgrade, I'm actually excited about some new coaching blood.
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Where the hell are you finding $20.00 hookers these days.............???
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You seem to be "touching your dick" over Ben.
I've got some news for you...the Steelers ain't won **** WITH BEN for ten years now. Except three playoff games in a two-year span back in 2015 and 2016, against teams who started AJ McCarron, Matt Moore, and Alex Smith at quarterback. Ben has gone 8 out of 10 seasons, running through the prime of his career, without winning a single postseason game. You think that's going to magically change next year, when he's nearly 40?
It is time to address the future at the QB position. Hoping and praying Ben somehow pulls a miracle out of his *** next year (after not looking "terrible" this season) would be a bit more "delusional."
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You aren't addressing the QB position from the 24th draft position. You aren't addressing the QB position in a tight, low cap year (with very limited legitimate options as well). Ben playing one more year doesn't prevent us from magically finding the next franchise QB.
Ben is a steelers legend and he'll go out how he wants to go out, not as some finicky posters on a random website wish. You can hope in one hand and **** in it other and see which one fills up first...
Or you could not be a dick all the time...
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I think those are all a reach.
It just could be that Ben is starting to suck.
Some retire on top like Manning and Elway, some retire because of health reasons, and some retire because they just don't have it anymore...i.e. diminishing skills.
When QB's start to suck it is a signal to retire.. I recall Farve was sucking big time.
Feb 11, 2009 — Favre tells Jets he's retiring ... Favre informed Tannenbaum before the Super Bowl that he was leaning toward retirement. ... "I didn't play as well down the stretch.
Brady says he will retire when he starts to suck.
Tom Brady on Retirement: 'When I Suck, I'll Retire'
Marino performance was horrendous in his last game before he retired.
.
In the 2000 NFL Playoffs, the Dolphins limped into a divisional round matchup with the Jaguars. Dan Marino, who had had an up-and-down season (mostly the latter), played like absolute garbage and was benched after one drive in the second half. Jimmy Johnson retired the next day, Marino voided his contract then retired a couple months later, and we all pretended like he retired a year earlier when he was still competent.
Eli Manning was said to have diminishing skills.
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