• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

NFL question, as the NHL proved it can be done.

Coach said:
No you stop. Arians was named AP Head Coach of the Year in 2012 and 2014. He became the 11th coach to win the award multiple times and the fifth to win it twice in three seasons. His record as the hed coach is 34 wins 14 losses .708 winning percentage. WHO HAD BETTER that coaches for four season or more? NO ONE. Not even hall of fame coaches. Arians can coach and he dit it with a rookie QB and a non-franchise QB that was hit by injuries. To say he can't, it foolish. When he left, the Steelers record in the playoffs was not very good. Ben loved him.

Now if you want to retract anything, now's the time. Or you can choose to keep telling me to stop, and get bombared with true and factual replies that won;t make you look good. I hope you choose the former. You're not a bad guy. No offense meant.

-Coach



Arians took the head coaching leadership role of the worst team in football with a rookie QB and made them very good. That is impressive. To suggest he didn't help build a culture of winning or change things is foolish

Chuck Noll won coach of the year twice. the AP is not the lone authority.


Maxwell Club NFL Coach of the Year (1989) -Chuck Noll

UPI AFC Coach of the Year (1972) - Chuck Noll

I'm guessing you didn't know that or were only looking at the AP award. Noll was never popular with the press in general.

As you know a loaded team with hall of fame members seldom produces coach of the year which is what Noll had. However, he took a 1 win team and made them into winners.
Click to expand...


I did, but it is irrelevant. Is AFC CoTY the same as NFL CoTY? You said Arians won CoTY twice. Want to guess which group gave it to him twice? Wait for it.....the AP.

BTW. The Maxwell award for 2012. Wait for it..... Pagano/Arians. I'm guess you didn't know that....

https://www.maxwellfootballclub.org/greasy-neale-award

I don't see anyone listed after 2013.

However he took a 1 win team and made them into winners
Click to expand...

Insanity already showed you where this is flawed.

Again, I don't need to walk anything back. I'm not starting with a premise and trying to back it up with incomplete information. you haven't demonstrated any actual facts to back up that premise. You THINK you have, but it just isn't true if you consider the totality of the situation.

that terrible team that became winners was built by Pagano (probably with some help from Arians) and the real reason for their success that year was Andrew Luck who was a no-brainer first round pick. it aint like they made some big draft deals and put together a team based solely upon Arians input. When the same team with Pagano goes 11-5 for two more seasons after Arians leaves, you have to wonder how much Arians had to do with it. Well, some of us would. BTW, this has NOTHING to do with what Arians has done in AZ, not have I, as insanity points out, said anything about Arians coaching abilities.
 
Once again, the 2012 season is the absolute definition of "wining with another HC's players" for which you people are consistently saying Tomlin did. Still can't believe you are sticking t this.

smdh
 
Ark,

Do you think Arians is a good head coach or not? Prove to me he didn't change anything when he took over for the Colts. I don't think you can.

The players Arians won with were a 1 win team the year before. It's not like he ever hired a stacked team of talented certain who recently won a super bowl. He took over the worst team.
 
Coach said:
Prove to me he didn't change anything when he took over for the Colts. I don't think you can.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I don't know how I could. I've shown you how logic dictates that he did not, but you won't listen. Maybe, you should prove he did?

I will go through it again. did he change the coaching staff? No. did he change the players? no. Did he change the offensive philosophy? No, he already WAS the philosophy for 2012. Did he give someone else play calling duties rather than himself? Maybe, I don't know. If so, seems to indicate that he isn't a good OC and is a better HC knowing his limitations. the players stayed the same, the coaching staff stayed the same and the offensive philosophy stayed the same from the day before he took over to the day after. What did he change?

Coach said:
The players Arians won with were a 1 win team the year before. It's not like he ever hired a stacked team of talented certain who recently won a super bowl. He took over the worst team.
Click to expand...

They were the worst team the year before. They had a new QB who everyone expected to be a stud. We don't know how good they were going to be in 2012 as he took over after 3 games or so (I think the were 1-2 at the time).

If Tomlin is responsible for the Steelers draft picks, shouldn't Pagano be responsible for his? Two of the colts first 4 picks of the 2012 drafthave made the Pro Bowl (Luck and Hylton). Think that might have helped? Having Luck's security blanket from Stanford? Think that helped?

Coaching staff of 2012 vs. 2011: Different OC, different QB coach, different WR coach, different TE coach, different OL coach, different assistant OL coach, different DC, different DL coach, different DB coach different ST coordinator.

Manning was hurt the year before. After they 2-14 season, the colts let go of every one of their QB's. Looking at final rosters for the year: Entire QB crew and RB crew was different in 2012 vs. 2011. Looks like the final WR group was different except for Reggie Wayne. TE group completely different. Most of OL was different. Most of DB group was different.

Whole new coaching staff, significantly new players? I'm not convinced that the team that Arians took over is the same team that went 2-14 the year before. How could anyone think so? The players he took over did not go 2-14 the year before.
 
I could add that in 2013 and 2014, when the colts again went 11-5, Luck's stats were better in virtually every QB category...he was sacked 41 times in 2012. 32 in 2013 and 27 in 2014..
 
Coach said:
Ark, Do you think Arians is a good head coach or not?
Click to expand...

To answer this question. He seems to have done well in AZ. Of course, so did Whiz to start.

2013 was 10-6 with no PO appearance. 2014 was 11-5 with one and done in the playoffs. Those are failures around these parts.
 
it's pushing it to say that Arians was a complete coaching change. He was not. His offensive scheme was already in place. He was interim HC for awhile.

when I see Coach's question, I see it as (an example) if the Steelers fired Tomlin and replaced him with Jim Harbaugh, would there be immediate benefits?
 
Superman said:
it's pushing it to say that Arians was a complete coaching change. He was not. His offensive scheme was already in place. He was interim HC for awhile.

when I see Coach's question, I see it as (an example) if the Steelers fired Tomlin and replaced him with Jim Harbaugh, would there be immediate benefits?
Click to expand...

I'd say yes, and Include Arians name. Keep in mind Arians never had Bell or Byrant. Nor did he have the OL we have today.
 
Coach said:
I'd say yes, and Include Arians name. Keep in mind Arians never had Bell or Byrant. Nor did he have the OL we have today.
Click to expand...

So this whole thread is based on the fact that you want Tomlin fired and the Steelers to throw a whole bunch of money and draft picks at AZ to get Arians back? Am I getting that right?
 
insaniti said:
So this whole thread is based on the fact that you want Tomlin fired and the Steelers to throw a whole bunch of money and draft picks at AZ to get Arians back? Am I getting that right?
Click to expand...

No, but some people took it that way, partially when Arians name came into the mix. The Colts mad a head coaching change during the season too, which was relevant to the thread topic.

The ship has sailed on Arians and the Steelers. If we kept Arians during the back to back 8-8 seasons, he might have been an option to replace Tomlin. It is my firm belief that both Tomlin and Colbert owe their jobs to Ben.

It seems that NFL teams that make the head coaching switch during the season do a little better overall, and it works in other sports on the championship game levels ( NHL and NBA ). That is the point of the thread.

The odds of Rooney ever doing it as a pure football move are pretty close to zero, I think.
 
Coach said:
It seems that NFL teams that make the head coaching switch during the season do a little better overall, and it works in other sports on the championship game levels ( NHL and NBA ). That is the point of the thread.

The odds of Rooney ever doing it as a pure football move are pretty close to zero, I think.
Click to expand...

Ok for the last time, the Colts didn't make a headcoaching CHANGE. Pagano was and still is the headcoach. He got sick, Arians filled in, used the same system, the same players, etc. That is not a CHANGE. He filled in, COMPLETELY different.

As for your notion that teams do better after midseason changes, it's all in your head. First, because the article that Ark posted shows, that the sample size for the new coach is usually too small to determine if they were in fact better or not. Also, because teams that make midseason changes in the NFL, are usually bottom feeder teams and not championship caliber teams. There's a reason for that. There are only 16 games in an NFL season, it's very hard to change the culture, philosophies, players, coaching staff... just about anything in that little bit of time. You're still going to have the same offense, same defense, and there's not too many changes you can make with the players. You are limited by who is on your roster and who is a free agent. There are no minor league teams to pull up from (as was the case with the Penguins).

The NFL is completely different animal, and trying to compare it to other leagues that have WAY more games to make new adjustments with is just apples to oranges...

As for your Arians can coach, sure... in the regular season, but he's shown the ability to make poor decisions in the playoffs and his teams rarely are competitive in those games. They lost 27-16 his first year an AZ, and posted a season low 78 yards of offense... wait, let me rephrase that, they posted an NFL PLAYOFF RECORD LOW 78 yards of offense. Last year, BLOWN OUT by the Panthers again 49-15.
 
The only thing I will give Arians credit for is cultivating the talent he had at QB. Manning, Ben, and Luck all young, plus Palmer has had 2 great years. He knows how to get the most out of his QBs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top