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New PSU information.

POP said:
Well, you might have a point except Jopa admitted to being wrong when he said, "I probably should have done more about it."
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Unfortunately, we live in a society where admitting wrong doing, negligence or regret is more often than not a legal and/or PR mistake.

I'm not going to fault him for that statement.
 
Troglodyte said:
Unfortunately, we live in a society where admitting wrong doing, negligence or regret is more often than not a legal and/or PR mistake.

I'm not going to fault him for that statement.
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Michael Vick.

All the sorry in the world won't make people stop hating him.
 
There is also that condemning factor, to make one feel better about themselves. Some people thrive on looking down on others just to make their crappy lives seem better. My daughter is a CPS agent for special needs kids. She has seen a wide variety of things, good endings and not so good endings. It's sad what people will say just to justify or make themselves feel better. Take that into consideration when looking at this JoPa deal.



Salute the nation
 
Drink IRON City said:
There is also that condemning factor, to make one feel better about themselves. Some people thrive on looking down on others just to make their crappy lives seem better. My daughter is a CPS agent for special needs kids. She has seen a wide variety of things, good endings and not so good endings. It's sad what people will say just to justify or make themselves feel better. Take that into consideration when looking at this JoPa deal.



Salute the nation
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Paterno did everything from a legal perspective. Football aside, Sandusky should be dealt to justice. It's all up to the legal system now. I'm sure Sandusky is getting attention. End of story
 
diver said:
Aw, bullshit. The Paterno family is going to defend Joe, as they should. What, do you expect them to just sit there and take it?

I am not defending Paterno, here, I am just wondering what the hell you expect the family to do?
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Be honest with themselves.
 
diver said:
Sure, Joe probably felt some guilt. But read what Supersteeler said, dammit. It is frustrating, no doubt, but it is the truth. Even if Joe wanted to do more, there were limits.

I know we all think football coaches are next to God on campuses. And maybe they are. They still can't force CPS or the police to act on something.
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Joe Pa was a God at Penn State and yes he could of did more. To say other wise is just foolish honestly.
 
stillwright said:
Joe Pa was a God at Penn State and yes he could of did more. To say other wise is just foolish honestly.
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I'm not saying you are right or wrong, but I am honestly curious because I want to understand this point of view shared by so many. Out of curiosity, what should he have done? I mean he could have fired Sandusky without any evidence I suppose....although the college most likely would have gotten a lawsuit thrown back at them. This "he should have done more argument" seems like magical thinking at times. Within the law, what should of been his next action?
 
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Supersteeler said:
I'm not saying you are right or wrong, but I am honestly curious because I want to understand this point of view shared by so many. Out of curiosity, what should he have done? I mean he could have fired Sandusky without any evidence I suppose....although the college most likely would have gotten a lawsuit thrown back at them. This "he should have done more argument" seems like magical thinking at times. Within the law, what should of been his next action?
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No you're right. All any of them could do was sit on their hands while Jerry hung out with one little boy after another. That's what you'd do, right?

He reported it to the athletic director and the VP of the university. He never reported it to CPS or the actual police. Yes, he could have made that call. He could have gone back to Curley and Schultz and said "Hey, what's going on with the Jerry thing? Did you report him to the police? Cause Jerry hangs out with little boys all the time and that's probably not a good thing, right?"

Now there is evidence that other assistant coaches witnessed things...you think they never mentioned that to Joe? I have no doubt he knew about the earlier police investigation too. Everyone involved in this knew for years what Jerry was or at least had very strong suspicions, and they were more worried about how it would look to the public than what Jerry was doing to those little boys. They let Jerry spend time with little boys in locker rooms, in bathrooms, in hotel rooms...and you are telling me they did everything they could? Every single person who knew about this and did nothing and let the administration do nothing is just as guilty. Joepa is the only one some people will defend with their last breath.
 
stillwright said:
Be honest with themselves.
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That is a big ask. It is his family, after all.

I just got done reading "Unbroken," the book about Louie Zamperini and the abuse he took in Jap POW camps. His main abuser was a guy they nicknamed "The Bird." This guy was well known all over Japan for his abuses, his family knew all about it. Yet when he was presumed dead (he wasn't) his family built a shrine to him in their house, as was Japanese custom.

Again, I am not defending Paterno here. I just think people asking the family to shut up and not defend the man is something most families could not do. And remember, PAterno didn't abuse anybody. I think that gets lost a little bit.
 
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Drink IRON City said:
There is also that condemning factor, to make one feel better about themselves. Some people thrive on looking down on others just to make their crappy lives seem better. My daughter is a CPS agent for special needs kids. She has seen a wide variety of things, good endings and not so good endings. It's sad what people will say just to justify or make themselves feel better. Take that into consideration when looking at this JoPa deal.



Salute the nation
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I am sure your daughter has seen all sorts of things in her job. Very few on this board would get worked up over it. It happens everyday, after all. However, you add a football coach and a well known program, now people want to get all righteously indignant.

Why does the PSU situation offend everybody but the everyday stuff that goes on people don't give it a second thought? It's kinda like the Mike Vick thing. Animals are getting abused everyday, and oh, well. We make a stand on Mike Vick?
 
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oneforthebus said:
No you're right. All any of them could do was sit on their hands while Jerry hung out with one little boy after another. That's what you'd do, right?

He reported it to the athletic director and the VP of the university. He never reported it to CPS or the actual police. Yes, he could have made that call. He could have gone back to Curley and Schultz and said "Hey, what's going on with the Jerry thing? Did you report him to the police? Cause Jerry hangs out with little boys all the time and that's probably not a good thing, right?"

Now there is evidence that other assistant coaches witnessed things...you think they never mentioned that to Joe? I have no doubt he knew about the earlier police investigation too. Everyone involved in this knew for years what Jerry was or at least had very strong suspicions, and they were more worried about how it would look to the public than what Jerry was doing to those little boys. They let Jerry spend time with little boys in locker rooms, in bathrooms, in hotel rooms...and you are telling me they did everything they could? Every single person who knew about this and did nothing and let the administration do nothing is just as guilty. Joepa is the only one some people will defend with their last breath.
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A couple of us have told you how things work. Unfortunately, that is the way it is. You choose not to understand it. It sucks, for sure at times, but it is not as black and white as you make it seem.

For example, there is a local case that made the Philly news at the end of last week. A child was taken away from his parents at 3 months old. Kid had 23 fractures. The reason it has made the news is the child is now about 1 year old, and at 15 mos. he can be permanently placed. Parents are SOL if that happens. Another reason it made news is the parents are claiming innocence, stating the child has some Vitamin D deficiency causing the fractures. They got a doctor to verify this diagnosis. And this doctor is from a well known hospital, this ain't some Vinny Boombach. A lot of people are sympathetic to the parents, certainly enough to get a news story that supports the parents. It's my opinion, with some of the experience I have had with this stuff, that the kid was abused. But it isn't quite that easy is it? Imagine you are the CPS person trying to make a determination here. There is a doctor claiming this medical diagnosis.
 
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MTC said:
Paterno did everything from a legal perspective. Football aside, Sandusky should be dealt to justice. It's all up to the legal system now. I'm sure Sandusky is getting attention. End of story
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DUDE, I never said anything bad of Paterno, I'm saying people will say things JUST to make themselves feel better about themselves. Sandusky can rot in JAIL for what he did. END of STORY.......


Salute the nation
 
diver said:
A couple of us have told you how things work. Unfortunately, that is the way it is. You choose not to understand it. It sucks, for sure at times, but it is not as black and white as you make it seem.

For example, there is a local case that made the Philly news at the end of last week. A child was taken away from his parents at 3 months old. Kid had 23 fractures. The reason it has made the news is the child is now about 1 year old, and at 15 mos. he can be permanently placed. Parents are SOL if that happens. Another reason it made news is the parents are claiming innocence, stating the child has some Vitamin D deficiency causing the fractures. They got a doctor to verify this diagnosis. And this doctor is from a well known hospital, this ain't some Vinny Boombach. A lot of people are sympathetic to the parents, certainly enough to get a news story that supports the parents. It's my opinion, with some of the experience I have had with this stuff, that the kid was abused. But it isn't quite that easy is it? Imagine you are the CPS person trying to make a determination here. There is a doctor claiming this medical diagnosis.
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I don't care "how things work". I'd quit my job before I'd work side by side with a child rapist.

Again, nothing was reported to CPS or to police. Neither Joe nor Curley or Schultz even bothered to try to find out who this kid was and warn his parents or guardians of what was going on. They didn't even tell Sandusky to stop hanging out with little boys. All they did was ban him from campus. That's it. They cared nothing about the boys, only about covering their own *****.

Make all the excuses you want. No decent human beings would have handled this the way they did. Joe included.
 
diver said:
Sure, Joe probably felt some guilt. But read what Supersteeler said, dammit. It is frustrating, no doubt, but it is the truth. Even if Joe wanted to do more, there were limits.

I know we all think football coaches are next to God on campuses. And maybe they are. They still can't force CPS or the police to act on something.
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Listen, we not only think major coaches of big time school are not next to God; they might as well _be_ God in many instances. Huge profile coaches at major programs ARE more powerful than ADs and even deans. If Jopa was pissed about the pedeophile crimes taken place, he could have snapped his fingers and that little creep would never be allowed to step foot on campus NEVER again, not to mention, say the word and no one would have even seen Jerry ever again.

But that never happened.

Instead? Jerry was allowed to maintain an office, on campus, where he continued to have showers with boys, playing, "Where did my sausage go?"

Jopa KNOWINGLY kept the crimes in the shadows, fearing if unleashed would tarnish his program.Well, it sure as **** has now.

Had Jopa come clean, he would have been viewed a hero. Instead, he is considered dirty and dishonest by most.

Anyone allowing these horrific crimes to continue to occur has no valid excuse. Joe should have been willing to literally quit instead of allow these crimes to continue, if he had any honor in him whatsoever.
 
oneforthebus said:
I don't care "how things work". I'd quit my job before I'd work side by side with a child rapist.

Again, nothing was reported to CPS or to police. Neither Joe nor Curley or Schultz even bothered to try to find out who this kid was and warn his parents or guardians of what was going on. They didn't even tell Sandusky to stop hanging out with little boys. All they did was ban him from campus. That's it. They cared nothing about the boys, only about covering their own *****.

Make all the excuses you want. No decent human beings would have handled this the way they did. Joe included.
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Nobody is making excuses. There is a lot of speculation in all this. You are speculating, hell, people who defend Joe are even speculating to some degree. I am simply trying to explain how the reporting thing goes. You have to remember, it has been tightened up considerably since the Sandusky thing broke. It wasn't always like this.

See, this is the thing. I thought some of this was reported to the police. I get confused anymore with it. Once it is reported to the police, there is little recourse for the reporter. ****, many times the police don't want to deal with it, they tell you to call CPS.

But as I asked before, why all the righteous indignation? Every day kids are abused in this country, yet I see no posts highlighting any of those. We ignore it. What is it about this case that elicits the reaction, when again, you can find cases of abuse far worse than this in every paper in the country, as hard as it may be to believe.
 
POP said:
Listen, we not only think major coaches of big time school are not next to God; they might as well _be_ God in many instances. Huge profile coaches at major programs ARE more powerful than ADs and even deans. If Jopa was pissed about the pedeophile crimes taken place, he could have snapped his fingers and that little creep would never be allowed to step foot on campus NEVER again, not to mention, say the word and no one would have even seen Jerry ever again.

But that never happened.

Instead? Jerry was allowed to maintain an office, on campus, where he continued to have showers with boys, playing, "Where did my sausage go?"

Jopa KNOWINGLY kept the crimes in the shadows, fearing if unleashed would tarnish his program.Well, it sure as **** has now.

Had Jopa come clean, he would have been viewed a hero. Instead, he is considered dirty and dishonest by most.

Anyone allowing these horrific crimes to continue to occur has no valid excuse. Joe should have been willing to literally quit instead of allow these crimes to continue, if he had any honor in him whatsoever.
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As for the first part, you are just wrong. I wish you were right, I wish it was that way. If all the decent people were able to just snap their fingers, a hell of a lot of suffering would be gone in the world.

There is no chance in hell Joe would have been a hero. What world do you live in? People who dislike PSU and Joe would've relished the opportunity to jump on him full bore. There is no way he comes out as a hero in this. You have to know that. If he can come out the hero, why cover it up? Use your damn head. You argue out of both sides of your mouth.
 
diver said:
Nobody is making excuses. There is a lot of speculation in all this. You are speculating, hell, people who defend Joe are even speculating to some degree. I am simply trying to explain how the reporting thing goes. You have to remember, it has been tightened up considerably since the Sandusky thing broke. It wasn't always like this.

See, this is the thing. I thought some of this was reported to the police. I get confused anymore with it. Once it is reported to the police, there is little recourse for the reporter. ****, many times the police don't want to deal with it, they tell you to call CPS.

But as I asked before, why all the righteous indignation? Every day kids are abused in this country, yet I see no posts highlighting any of those. We ignore it. What is it about this case that elicits the reaction, when again, you can find cases of abuse far worse than this in every paper in the country, as hard as it may be to believe.
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Nope. Never reported to police. No attempt to locate the kid and find out if he was ok. No attempt to let his parents know. Nothing but "Tell Jerry he has to do his raping somewhere else, not here."

Tell me about a case where police have an eyewitness to an 8 year old boy being raped and the police did nothing about it. Go ahead, find one.
 
oneforthebus said:
Nope. Never reported to police. No attempt to locate the kid and find out if he was ok. No attempt to let his parents know. Nothing but "Tell Jerry he has to do his raping somewhere else, not here."

Tell me about a case where police have an eyewitness to an 8 year old boy being raped and the police did nothing about it. Go ahead, find one.
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Maybe. This is an allegation you are taking as absolute fact.

I'll give you two. You can believe me or not, that's up to you. In the '90s, I worked at an alternative school. Many of the kids who got kicked out of the regular schools in the county were sent here, mostly inner city, though. In one case, there was a 16 year old boy who was at the school who abused younger boys. We would get accounts from other kids and even adults and sent it forward to the police as well as child welfare. He was finally caught raping a kid in an alley, but it took it to get to that point for the cops to do anything. In another case in the area (had nothing to do with anyone in the school), there was a young boy so badly abused he died, and the rats had been gnawing on his lips. My mind can only hope he was dead when that occurred. The scandal at the time was there was police as well as child welfare involvement and it still happened.

There are more, unfortunately.
 
diver said:
Maybe. This is an allegation you are taking as absolute fact.

I'll give you two. You can believe me or not, that's up to you. In the '90s, I worked at an alternative school. Many of the kids who got kicked out of the regular schools in the county were sent here, mostly inner city, though. In one case, there was a 16 year old boy who was at the school who abused younger boys. We would get accounts from other kids and even adults and sent it forward to the police as well as child welfare. He was finally caught raping a kid in an alley, but it took it to get to that point for the cops to do anything. In another case in the area (had nothing to do with anyone in the school), there was a young boy so badly abused he died, and the rats had been gnawing on his lips. My mind can only hope he was dead when that occurred. The scandal at the time was there was police as well as child welfare involvement and it still happened.

There are more, unfortunately.
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This is all irrelevant, ok? IF the cops got this report and did nothing then it would be on the cops. THE COPS NEVER GOT THIS REPORT.

Are you telling me a kid at your school was accused of sexual abuse multiple times and you and other employees ignored it? You just let this kid hang out with younger kids alone on a regular basis? You didn't supervise him or keep him away from the younger or weaker kids? Honestly, a kid is accused of bullying at my kids' school and he gets detention, probation, and eventually suspended and expelled if the allegations continue. You're telling me your school received multiple allegations of sexual abuse and DID NOTHING while he continued to abuse other kids?

If so you are all as guilty as he is.
 
Penn State under Paterno was a cult. Period. His defenders are like Bernie Sanders defenders. No amount of facts or common sense will sway them.
 
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