Moats

[keslerclan]

From a previous thread:

I for one am getting more excited in what we might have in Moats. I never really delved into what he had done prior to arriving here as a FA last season and what i found was interesting:

He was only on the field for us for 337 snaps (exactly the same as O'Brien Schoefield) but outperformed him in tackles, sacks, FF, FR etc.

This was his FIRST year at playing outside as a 'rush' LB. He played SLB and ILB in Buffalo with a bit of time at DE in their 4-3. He never played as an OLB in their 3-4 (which surprised me).

Comparing his snap counts to other guys we like in FA:
He had 337
Graham had 499
McPhee had 516 (although only about half at outside rush LB)
Morgan had more snaps than Worilds @ 1,004
Worilds had 978

The fact that Moats managed 4 sacks, 23 stops and 2 FF bodes well for his future on the outside considering he is new to the position, he topped his career in sacks and played roughly 1/3 of the snaps that Worilds did from a position that Worilds saw the least of his own production.



The only thing I don't like is Moats is already better than Jones and has most of his snaps coming from Jones' side.

 

[bermudasteel]

Moats wasn't really signed to be a starter. OLB will be addressed in FA or the draft which is deep at the OLB position where a player like Dupree should be available.

Well, history can say that "Ben wasn't really signed to be a starter" either - but, you know how circumstance changes things...

I, for one, want to see what both Uncle Jarvis and Mr. Moats can do on the field. Because, right now, they are the starters.

 

[bermudasteel]

It's deep this year. Depends on the needs of the 3/4 teams ahead of us. A guy like Dupree or Ray should be available.

The ONLY WAY Shane Ray is there at 1.22 is if he BOMBS his Pro Day. Is it possible??? Well, anything is; but, it HIGHLY UNLIKELY...

 

[steelpastor]

.

Moats is a good player signed at a GREAT price. I would really like to see what he could do as a starter for a season in this defense. The challenge will be that his best spot is at ROLB--for our best interest, I hope JJ lights it up this year. If not, Moats is the guy. I do not see Moats a real solution on the left side. There needs to be one more move still yet to be made.

.

 

[Steelers1356]

Ben was drafted to be a starter. Moats is solid in relief but too inconsistent to be a starter. We saw that last year.

 

[Vader]

Ben was drafted to be a starter. Moats is solid in relief but too inconsistent to be a starter. We saw that last year.

It was his first year playing OLB in a 3-4. He had almost as many sacks as Worilds did in 1/3 the snaps. If he is too inconsistent to start then WTF is Worilds? It's taken him years just to match Moats in 3 times as many plays. And he wasn't going against LTs either. Most of the time he was getting stoned by RBs and TEs.

 

[freak]

It's deep this year. Depends on the needs of the 3/4 teams ahead of us. A guy like Dupree or Ray should be available.

most of the mocks around has dupree available at 22

 

[Shane Falco]

Good value signing

 

[bermudasteel]

Ben was drafted to be a starter. Moats is solid in relief but too inconsistent to be a starter. We saw that last year.

I suggest you read Keslersclan's post again.

 

[Supersteeler]

Smart move. They need insurance at the position and Moats proved he's steady enough to fill in or start if they need him to. They know Worilds is gone, so you focus on the guy you know you can keep.

 

[TAS]

Solid signing. Get on the phone with James now!

 

[Stryker]

He's going to cost $1.483M against the cap according to Steeler Depot. Looks like the Steelers paid him with Keisel's cap money savings.

 

[FordFairLane]

From a previous thread:

I for one am getting more excited in what we might have in Moats. I never really delved into what he had done prior to arriving here as a FA last season and what i found was interesting:

He was only on the field for us for 337 snaps (exactly the same as O'Brien Schoefield) but outperformed him in tackles, sacks, FF, FR etc.

This was his FIRST year at playing outside as a 'rush' LB. He played SLB and ILB in Buffalo with a bit of time at DE in their 4-3. He never played as an OLB in their 3-4 (which surprised me).

Comparing his snap counts to other guys we like in FA:
He had 337
Graham had 499
McPhee had 516 (although only about half at outside rush LB)
Morgan had more snaps than Worilds @ 1,004
Worilds had 978

The fact that Moats managed 4 sacks, 23 stops and 2 FF bodes well for his future on the outside considering he is new to the position, he topped his career in sacks and played roughly 1/3 of the snaps that Worilds did from a position that Worilds saw the least of his own production.



The only thing I don't like is Moats is already better than Jones and has most of his snaps coming from Jones' side.

If you do the math Moats would have had 11.5+ sacks 66+ stops and 6+ forced fumbled if he played the snaps Worilds did. That would be very nice about now...

 

[Steelers1356]

I suggest you read Keslersclan's post again.

That's a small sample to go by. Remember all those interceptions Cortez Allen had his rookie year? He was being called Darrel Revis # II. "Or was that Crezdon Butler?" Moats has a lot more consistency to show before proving he's starter material. If a guy like Dupree falls he'll have an uphill battle.

 

[keslerclan]

If you do the math Moats would have had 11.5+ sacks 66+ stops and 6+ forced fumbled if he played the snaps Worilds did. That would be very nice about now...

I did...in another previous thread:

For what it's worth, I ran the number of defensive snaps verses production (Tackles, Solos, Sacks, FF and FR) on all of the mentioned players plus a few more and Harrison and Moats (extrapilated to Worilds' snaps) would account for far better stats than ANY of the available talent. The only ones who are close are Mcphee and Graham.

For instance: Worilds at 978 snaps is 2.26 times Harrison's and 2.9 times Moats. based on there actual production, Harrison would have had 102 tackles, 66 solos, 12.5 sacks, while Moats would have been at 67 tackles, 49 solos, 11.5 sacks.

No one comes close to Deebo in terms of run stopping ability but Moats looked bigger this year than in previous years and could surprise, IMO. I still want Deebo and a rookie to help long term though.

 

[keslerclan]

Question for Del...I've been looking at Jabaal Sheard and he just doesn't seem to have the 'traits' of a 3-4 OLB. He is terrific against the run but has only 7.5 sacks in 2 years playing outside in the 3-4.
676 snaps this year with 2 sacks.

What do you see in terms of potential as he looked much better suited for (had more production, sacks and tackles) when he played in the 4-3 his first 2 years.

I would rather draft Ray, Odighizuwa or Orchard as they are the top 3 tacklers playing DE in a Div I program and save the money. I think all 3 will get better and they have 'stand-out' tackle numbers for DE's

 

[awboatguy]

Anyone we tender an offer to will have to accept 2 mil or less. The Steelers only have 2.1 of cap space remaining.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Can't argue with the price on Moats. Solid depth player who can be a spot starter. At that price, the Steelers may not be done in FA at OLB. Maybe they do keep Worilds or bring in a guy in the 5 to 6 Million range.

If they can do that, then draft a guy to push Jarvis and also bring back Harrison, they should be in good shape.


Sadly, when thinking of roster moves, you have to count Jarvis as a zero at this point, or at least you have to count him as a guy like Moats. In other words, you are looking to upgrade him if you have the chance.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Hell, I thought we were looking to upgrade Worilds also.

 

[deljzc]

Anyone we tender an offer to will have to accept 2 mil or less. The Steelers only have 2.1 of cap space remaining.

I have us at around $4 million after the RFA tenders. Plus we are likely going to release Polamalu and save $3.75 million.

Would have really liked to have seen us renegotiate with Roethlisberger and/or Heyward BEFORE free agency to give us some flexibility this week, but that hasn't happened....

 

[steelerscotty]

I dont buy the Moats was inconsistent argument. He performed well every time he was given a chance. It is telling, though, that we did bring back Harrison instead of putting Moats into the starting lineup after JJ went down. Im not saying Moats is a long term answer but it does give us some flexibility at the position now.

If Worlids and whomever else we target in FA wont sign or wont accept a reasonable contract then we could roll with JJ and Moats as starters with Lemon and about 4 other guys competing for backup spots. We COULD try to re-sign Harrison, but i think his being re-signed and starting over Moats last year was more of a case that we didnt completely trust Moats yet from being new to the system vs not liking his ability.

Even if we draft an edge guy in the first two rounds, Moats would have the inside track to start this year, as a caretaker of the position until the new guy gets up to speed and proves he knows the play book.

As i have stated in previous threads, my own personal opinion would be to offer Worlids 6 mil a year max, if he wont sign that then target Orakpo or bring back Harrison for one more year. Either way, draft some one this year too.

 

[SteelerFan448]

Would have really liked to have seen us renegotiate with Roethlisberger and/or Heyward BEFORE free agency to give us some flexibility this week, but that hasn't happened....

Same here. There is really no excuse for Roethlisberger and the team to fool around and waste time. Both sides have to realize that if a deal is done before FA, which basically started Saturday, then they have a better chance at putting together a championship team. Same with Polamalu. Either you are getting rid of him or you are keeping him. I love the guy, but if he's gone, man up and end it the right way. They've done this crap with Arians and LeBeau and now it looks like they're doing the same with Polamalu.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Same here. There is really no excuse for Roethlisberger and the team to fool around and waste time. Both sides have to realize that if a deal is done before FA, which basically started Saturday, then they have a better chance at putting together a championship team. Same with Polamalu. Either you are getting rid of him or you are keeping him. I love the guy, but if he's gone, man up and end it the right way. They've done this crap with Arians and LeBeau and now it looks like they're doing the same with Polamalu.

If they are releasing Troy with a "June 1st" designation, they are not allowed to do so until the start of the new league year (Tomorrow). That may be why the announcement hasn't come yet. It is also possible that Troy has not decided whether he is retiring or not. They could be allowing him time to make that decision as it may not change their plans much if they plan on releasing him with the June 1st designation.

 

[bermudasteel]

That's a small sample to go by. Remember all those interceptions Cortez Allen had his rookie year? He was being called Darrel Revis # II. "Or was that Crezdon Butler?" Moats has a lot more consistency to show before proving he's starter material. If a guy like Dupree falls he'll have an uphill battle.

Keep believin' that...

 

[SteelerFan448]

If they are releasing Troy with a "June 1st" designation, they are not allowed to do so until the start of the new league year (Tomorrow). That may be why the announcement hasn't come yet. It is also possible that Troy has not decided whether he is retiring or not. They could be allowing him time to make that decision as it may not change their plans much if they plan on releasing him with the June 1st designation.

Good call on that.