Marcus Mariotta

[Vader]

So let me ask you a question, let's say week 1 next season 2016 season Ben gets hurt(god forbid) and is done for the season. Your good with going with Bruce and Jones instead of having a quality guy like Mariotta with a year under his belt learning from Ben to control our season? If your fine with that then cool I understand you being against the MM pick at 22. I am not and with QB being the main position and us being a more offensive team I want a guy I feel could lead this team. JMO
Yeah we have much more bigger holes to fill but we are not talking just an avg guy we are talking the potential #1 pick in this years draft. Which like I just said in my last post is stupid cause we all are going back and forth for no reason cause MM will not even be close to #22 for us to pick.

How do you know Mariotta is a quality guy next year? Wonder if it takes him more than a year to learn an NFL system since he's never ran an NFL offense nor called a play since high school? What if when Ben gets hurt in week 1 MM sucks *** and you realize that either you made a huge mistake or at least it's going to take another year or two for this guy to be ready?

Fact is if Ben gets hurt the season is overwith with or without MM. He isn't going to be ready any time soon. Now you have a gimmick QB trying to learn a real NFL system and a worse off team because you didn't use your #1 pick wisely.

And my point still stands. IF you wouldn't take MM if Ben 25 then you aren't really looking at BPA.

 

[Vader]

You know, not that long ago people were saying Ben didn't have much time left because of the hits he has taken. Now it's he's only 33. The question was asked if he fell, do you take him and put him in a situation LIKE Favre and Rodgers. You don't know if another prospect falls to you, we were lucky as hell that Ben made it to us to begin with, and it took us 20 years of ****** QB play to finally get Ben. I love Ben, I know as long as he's under center we have a shot. I also know that he isn't going to last forever, and Bruce Gradkowski and Landry Jones aren't exactly people you can hope do more than hold the spot for a few plays while Ben is out.

We all know that Mariotta isn't getting past Philly in ANY scenario. But when a prospect is there, you have to consider it. I hope to hell Ben lasts another 6-7 years like some have said (prob the same people that said 2-3 years left before Haley got here). But I'm also not going to look past a serious QB prospect if he were to fall to us because of a NEED. Drafting for need always gets you into trouble. The other thing NOT being discussed here is what OTHER prospects are on the board when we draft? The combine is still going on, players are going to rise and fall for the next few weeks with the combine and pro days. IF Mariotta were to fall, who's to say there was someone on the board that we would take anyway?

I definitely consider taking him if he were to drop.

I have no problem with BPA. But taking a QB at 22 when you have a HOF QB makes no sense to me. Outside of Rodgers and Favre I can't remember the last time a team drafted a QB high in the draft with a 33 year old HOF QB on the roster. IF it's that important to the team then shouldn't they move up to get him? My guess is it isn't that important to them or anyone else so it won't happen even if he fell close to them.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I have no problem with BPA. But taking a QB at 22 when you have a HOF QB makes no sense to me. Outside of Rodgers and Favre I can't remember the last time a team drafted a QB high in the draft with a 33 year old HOF QB on the roster. IF it's that important to the team then shouldn't they move up to get him? My guess is it isn't that important to them or anyone else so it won't happen even if he fell close to them.

Another thing, if they wanted a quarterback in the draft, why would they be prepared to pay him upwards of over $20 million per year?

 

[Supersteeler]

So let me ask you a question, let's say week 1 next season 2016 season Ben gets hurt(god forbid) and is done for the season. Your good with going with Bruce and Jones instead of having a quality guy like Mariotta with a year under his belt learning from Ben to control our season?

I'm good with not throwing a 1st Round draft pick down the toilet and taking my chances of 99.9% that this won't happen. However, if it doesn't happen, the chances ARE 99.9% he sits the bench until Ben is ready to retire. I like my odds way better.

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

How do you know Mariotta is a quality guy next year? Wonder if it takes him more than a year to learn an NFL system since he's never ran an NFL offense nor called a play since high school? What if when Ben gets hurt in week 1 MM sucks *** and you realize that either you made a huge mistake or at least it's going to take another year or two for this guy to be ready?

Fact is if Ben gets hurt the season is overwith with or without MM. He isn't going to be ready any time soon. Now you have a gimmick QB trying to learn a real NFL system and a worse off team because you didn't use your #1 pick wisely.

And my point still stands. IF you wouldn't take MM if Ben 25 then you aren't really looking at BPA.

I do not know and either do you, when was the last time a possible #1 guy of MM's grade had a chance to fall to us? I will agree to disagree with you on this subject and move on cause with no chance of him to fall to use we are wasting our time. We could be in other threads talking about what is real important like our needs on defense and which prospects we like.

 

[insaniti]

I have no problem with BPA. But taking a QB at 22 when you have a HOF QB makes no sense to me. Outside of Rodgers and Favre I can't remember the last time a team drafted a QB high in the draft with a 33 year old HOF QB on the roster. IF it's that important to the team then shouldn't they move up to get him? My guess is it isn't that important to them or anyone else so it won't happen even if he fell close to them.

Because QB's are hard to find. Miami is STILL looking for Marino's replacement. Buffalo is still looking for Kelly's. It's not too often you're in a position to BE ABLE to draft a QB to replace a HOF QB. That's why you HAVE to consider it. It has nothing to do with how long you expect Ben to play, or insurance, it's all about how much risk you're willing to take that there will be a QB available for you when that HOF QB is gone. Also, it wasn't that long ago where MOST QB's drafted sat the first two years of their careers, now everyone expects them to come right in and go.

This hole "gimmick" offense thing has also been beat to death. Show me how many NFL teams run this so called "pro offense" you speak of, and how many college teams actually play this same style. I'll give you that he played in a fast paced offense, he was rarely under center, but that's not being a gimmick offense. That's just going with the trend. Just look at Denver, NE, and Philly. Even we have gone towards that style of offense in some games.

Another thing, if they wanted a quarterback in the draft, why would they be prepared to pay him upwards of over $20 million per year?

This thread isn't about them WANTING a QB. If that were the case, you'd see rumors of them looking to trade UP! This is about "what if he were to fall and be there when we do pick". Completely different scenario. None of the people advocating that we at least look at Mariotta are calling for Ben's head. We're just looking beyond the next few years (read 3-5), when there's a chance that Ben might be retired.

 

[Wingman]

The only trouble is that by the time this theoretical rookie actually gets on the field HE will be 30. Ben is about to get a multi year extension according to all sources.

In six years Ben will be 39 not likely for him to still be good at that age. It might be possible for a younger guy to surpass him in the next 3 years if he is a good player. Imagine being able to spend two to three seasons getting the next guy ready with offensive study 2 preseasons to go through and some spot duty in real games. I believe it worked out ok for Rodgers behind farve.

 

[Wingman]

You can't compare RBs to QBs. Name one team in the NFL that can win without their #1 QB. Name the best backup QB in the league. The fact is that Ben has played all 16 games in back to back seasons now and with Haley's guidance has learned to get rid of the ball sooner. He isn't taking nearly the hits he use too. RBs are a dime a dozen and if you have a good QB you can win even without a great RB.

Ben is going to play at least 4 more years. MM would be on his 2nd contract before he ever thought of seeing the field. Even then he still doesn't have a strong arm. I know people think dink and dunk but this offense is NOT a dink and dunk offense. Ben averaged 8.1 YPP this past year. That was 3rd in the league behind Romo and Rodgers.

I will disagree with your post and say look to our history all six wins came with a running back that was not a dime a dozen type. With Bell and an easy schedule the Steelers got to the playoffs and lost with out Bell. We had a dime a dozen running back and could not get past the ravens, even though we had the number one wide out or very close and that hall of fame qb. We won 4 superbowls w franco and none with out him with that hof QB. We won a superbowl with the bus and Willie Parker, Came close with Mendenhall.

 

[Wingman]

Now the guy you are talking about may not be the guy we want for other reasons and if so pass. The point is franchise qbs are hard to find and if you have a qb in the latter part of his professional life span and one falls to you in the draft take him. If he is the real deal you will not have to play him on another team, and you will have him as a good back up while you develop him. The draft should not just be for this season one should plan for the future and draft to fill what is likely to be needs in the next five seasons when possible. It has worked well in the past, for this team with linebackers for example, until lately when one left we already had a good player on the roster.

 

[Vader]

I will disagree with your post and say look to our history all six wins came with a running back that was not a dime a dozen type. With Bell and an easy schedule the Steelers got to the playoffs and lost with out Bell. We had a dime a dozen running back and could not get past the ravens, even though we had the number one wide out or very close and that hall of fame qb. We won 4 superbowls w franco and none with out him with that hof QB. We won a superbowl with the bus and Willie Parker, Came close with Mendenhall.

4 of those SBs came when RBs were dominant in the NFL. They were very important in the 70s. Lately the Steelers won the SB with Bettis on his last legs even though Parker (An UDFA) had the longest run in SB history in the first SB and I remember Bettis almost giving the game away again the Colts. In the 08' SB year Parker (An UDFA) was doing well until he got hurt. Hell Ben was the 3rd leading rusher that year. So I'm not sure what you are referring too. Parker was a dime a dozen RB. Nobody wanted him. The Steelers had Bus for YEARS without a SB until they got a QB.

 

[papillon]

This is the guy (Sean Mannion) as a late round pick to develop, big kid (6'5" @ 227), classic drop back guy, strong arm, good touch and smart, has to work on mechanics and dealing with pressure. I think he's a great project in the 5th or 6th. Jettison Landry Jones after they draft this guy.

STRENGTHS: sports an NFL-caliber frame, has the arm to make every throw and is a classic drop-back passer with limited mobility. When he feels secure in the pocket and has the time to step into his throws correctly, Mannion's touch on intermediate and vertical passes is as impressive as any quarterback in the country. He lofts the ball with perfect trajectory over the shoulder of his receivers and allows them to go get it, demonstrating pinpoint accuracy to lead his target away from defenders.

Mannion has an easy, natural throwing motion and he's well-versed in coach Mike Riley's pro-style offense, which asks him to take snaps from under center as well as from the gun. While he can drive the ball when needed, it cruises, rather than explodes out of his hand. The result is that Mannion's passes look effort-less but there is some question as to whether he has the top-notch velocity to significantly boost his stock this season.

WEAKNESSES: Lacks mobility. Where Mannion can improve is poise under pressure. Mannion is intelligent and typically is able to read defenses prior to the snap. When he's fooled and his primary read is taken away, he has a tendency to drop back further into the pocket, rather than stepping up. Mannion is willing to absorb a hit to complete the pass, but too often does so while falling back (rather than stepping into his passes), erasing some of the zip and accuracy from his throws.

Papillon

 

[RollRedRoll]

Picking a player now that might be good and able to help us 3 or 4 years down the road all the while knowing how bereft of talent the defense is just doesn't make sense to me... It's like painting the kitchen while the living room is on fire.

 

[Wingman]

4 of those SBs came when RBs were dominant in the NFL. They were very important in the 70s. Lately the Steelers won the SB with Bettis on his last legs even though Parker (An UDFA) had the longest run in SB history in the first SB and I remember Bettis almost giving the game away again the Colts. In the 08' SB year Parker (An UDFA) was doing well until he got hurt. Hell Ben was the 3rd leading rusher that year. So I'm not sure what you are referring too. Parker was a dime a dozen RB. Nobody wanted him. The Steelers had Bus for YEARS without a SB until they got a QB.

Parker an UDFA was an unknown but not a dime a dozen back. He was very good until Tomlin ran the wheels off him, and was if I remember correctly top five at his position until the injury. Point is it takes both to do so. The team with out Bell did not look like they were in the game even though we still had one of the top wide outs and that franchise QB. Not trying to diminish the impact of Ben just saying that the running backs we had were a dime a dozen and we did not go anyplace or even look like we could.

 

[Wingman]

Picking a player now that might be good and able to help us 3 or 4 years down the road all the while knowing how bereft of talent the defense is just doesn't make sense to me... It's like painting the kitchen while the living room is on fire.

I would say the only time it makes sense is if you think you have found the guy that can be your qb for ten years after he hits the line up, the next franchise player. One new chair in a living room that is on fire won't put out the fire.

 

[Vader]

Parker an UDFA was an unknown but not a dime a dozen back. He was very good until Tomlin ran the wheels off him, and was if I remember correctly top five at his position until the injury. Point is it takes both to do so. The team with out Bell did not look like they were in the game even though we still had one of the top wide outs and that franchise QB. Not trying to diminish the impact of Ben just saying that the running backs we had were a dime a dozen and we did not go anyplace or even look like we could.

Parker was a dime a dozen when they got him. It doesn't mean that he sucked. It just means that you don't have to draft a RB high to get a good one. Nobody wanted Parker. He wasn't even drafted. If that isn't a dime a dozen RB than I don't know what is. I'm talking about the draft and finding players. Just look at all the good RBs that haven't won anything. Peterson, Murray, Bell, McCoy, Lacy, Gore, Forte, Charles, Stewart ETC... Of the top 10 RBs this year only ONE has a SB ring and that is Lynch. You can't say that about QBs. 6 of the top 10 QBs have rings. And some with multiple rings. I don't value the RB position that highly in today's NFL.

 

[Wingman]

Parker was a dime a dozen when they got him. It doesn't mean that he sucked. It just means that you don't have to draft a RB high to get a good one. Nobody wanted Parker. He wasn't even drafted. If that isn't a dime a dozen RB than I don't know what is. I'm talking about the draft and finding players. Just look at all the good RBs that haven't won anything. Peterson, Murray, Bell, McCoy, Lacy, Gore, Forte, Charles, Stewart ETC... Of the top 10 RBs this year only ONE has a SB ring and that is Lynch. You can't say that about QBs. 6 of the top 10 QBs have rings. And some with multiple rings. I don't value the RB position that highly in today's NFL.

Parker was a small school prospect that did not play much and was available late. I do not consider his draft status what makes him a dime a dozen player. That would be based on his production. A guy named Decan Jones was drafted in the 13th round I think, would you consider him a dime a dozen player? Ryan Leaf on the other hand must have been exceptional based on his draft position. My point is simply this the running backs we had for every super bowl we won were good in addition to our quarter back being a franchise back. We need both we have never won it all with out both being good. You and I are differing in what we call our dime a dozen players. I never said we needed a first round pick on a RB, only that we needed a good one and that it was very important to our offense, so important that we have never won a SB with out one weather we have had a great QB and wide out or not.

 

[Vader]

Parker was a small school prospect that did not play much and was available late. I do not consider his draft status what makes him a dime a dozen player. That would be based on his production. A guy named Decan Jones was drafted in the 13th round I think, would you consider him a dime a dozen player? Ryan Leaf on the other hand must have been exceptional based on his draft position. My point is simply this the running backs we had for every super bowl we won were good in addition to our quarter back being a franchise back. We need both we have never won it all with out both being good. You and I are differing in what we call our dime a dozen players. I never said we needed a first round pick on a RB, only that we needed a good one and that it was very important to our offense, so important that we have never won a SB with out one weather we have had a great QB and wide out or not.

My entire point had to do with drafting. Yes, Parker was a good RB but he wasn't a great RB. You can get a good RB late in the draft or in FA.

Also the Steelers have never won a SB without a great WR, OLB, and QB. They won the Seattle SB with Ward (who is a much better WR than Parker is a RB). Holmes was a better WR than Parker was a RB. They sure could have beaten the rats without Bell this year. But the defense sucked and they would have been destroyed by Den and/or NE even if they had Bell.

Parker has a grand total of 5378 yards rushing for his career. He had 3 good years.

 

[Wingman]

My entire point had to do with drafting. Yes, Parker was a good RB but he wasn't a great RB. You can get a good RB late in the draft or in FA.

Also the Steelers have never won a SB without a great WR, OLB, and QB. They won the Seattle SB with Ward (who is a much better WR than Parker is a RB). Holmes was a better WR than Parker was a RB. They sure could have beaten the rats without Bell this year. But the defense sucked and they would have been destroyed by Den and/or NE even if they had Bell.

Parker has a grand total of 5378 yards rushing for his career. He had 3 good years.

This year we had Brown who at this point is a better wide out than Holmes or Ward although I do like ward and he is one of my favorite players. But our running back went down and we went no where. I do agree we do not need to draft one high to get a good one they can be found and I also do not think position drafted is a good always a good indication of the value of a player, Leaf, Jarvis, Harrison for example to name a few. Good players can be had at different spots, key is to find the good ones, bad ones can be drafted high as well. The running game is very important to the team still, look at the production on offense from Bell it is a big difference.

 

[Vader]

This year we had Brown who at this point is a better wide out than Holmes or Ward although I do like ward and he is one of my favorite players. But our running back went down and we went no where. I do agree we do not need to draft one high to get a good one they can be found and I also do not think position drafted is a good always a good indication of the value of a player, Leaf, Jarvis, Harrison for example to name a few. Good players can be had at different spots, key is to find the good ones, bad ones can be drafted high as well. The running game is very important to the team still, look at the production on offense from Bell it is a big difference.

They gave up 30 points against the rats. The Steelers had Bettis for years and didn't win anything until Ben got here. I agree Bell is a major part of the team but even against the rats during the season he didn't have great games.

In this thread I'm simply talking about drafting and how players like Parker, who aren't great players, can be good enough to win with. RB in today's NFL is downgraded because of all the passing. I'm fine with picking up a cheap FA or even drafting a late round RB to backup Bell.

 

[Coach]

mariota goes one to the bucs

Yep. Winston is getting a huge pass from the media. He's slow, has bad character off the field, and was incredibly turnover prone. No one is talking about his interceptions or fumbles. Winston has an impressive arm, but with his character and turnovers IMO he's a huge risk.

Mariota is fast, very mistake free, has great character, and near even level arm.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Yep. Winston is getting a huge pass from the media. He's slow, has bad character off the field, and was incredibly turnover prone. No one is talking about his interceptions or fumbles. Winston has an impressive arm, but with his character and turnovers IMO he's a huge risk.

Mariota is fast, very mistake free, has great character, and near even level arm.

He's fast? Lol thats one of your barometers for why he is a better QB?!

I think you better stick to creating threads and leave the draft analysis to the Del's of the world

 

[Coach]

He's fast? Lol thats one of your barometers for why he is a better QB?!

I think you better stick to creating threads and leave the draft analysis to the Del's of the world

Excuse me if this sounds too harsh.

If you have not noticed ( and judging by your above comments, you haven't ) Mariota was a running threat in college. To clarify my positon, Mariota rushed for ( 770 yards, 5.7 yards per carry and 15 TD's ) last season. Mariota ran a 4.52 in the forty yard dash. This is faster than Russel Wilson, or Colin Kaperniock! Mariota will be a good running threat in the NFL. Yes it is a factor.

But he's also a very good passer making him a dual threat. Last season Mariota ( 6'4" tall ) completed 68.3% of his passes, 4,454 yards, 42 touchdown passes, and just 4 interceptions. The season before MM only had 31 TD's and just 4 interceptions. This shows a QB who can pass for yards and take care of the football. Very important in the NFL. His character is also excellent.

By contrast last season Jamis Winston threw 25 touch downs and 18 interceptions, and fumbled the ball 7 times. This is the sign of a very mistake prone QB who averages well over a turn over a game. Winston also ran a slow 4.97 40, and has small hands which could be a reason why he's fumble prone. Yet the media pundits think he the #1 pick even though he has enough off the field baggage to fill a 767?

If Del is reading this, I think he would agree with me that Mariota's legs will be a factor in the NFL.

 

[SteelerAl]

If Del is reading this, I think he would agree with me that Mariota's legs will be a factor in the NFL.

A factor? Seriously? Consistent success in the NFL means a QB who wins games from the pocket. Trying to win with a QB that runs a lot is fools gold.

 

[Coach]

A factor? Seriously? Consistent success in the NFL means a QB who wins games from the pocket. Trying to win with a QB that runs a lot is fools gold.

I'm not saying its the only part of his game. I'm saying its a factor. Some QB's like Wilson, Kapernick, or Newton do a lot of damage running the football.

Key to being a quarterback is the ability to pass for yards without turnovers. We agree there.

 

[deljzc]

I'm kind of torn on Mariotta.

I think your evaluation has to start and end with what you think of the current crop of "mobile" quarterbacks in the NFL. How much do you like Wilson? How much do you like Kapernick/Newton? Where are those guys on your "top-10" NFL quarterback lists? How much would you pay them?

The problem is, even in the NFL, those questions are hard to answer for everyone. And I see both sides to the argument both for and against.

Of all of them, Mariotta is probably closest to Wilson. Because the intangibles are there and I see him being a very, very effective and scary runner for teams to defense against (in all honesty, that's Wilson's best attribute right now). But I suspect Mariotta will struggle passing the football in stretches just like Wilson does (I mean, Wilson had ZERO completions in the Super Bowl through the first 20-25 minutes of the game!). Mariotta is not a naturally, gifted, anticipation thrower. He does not see guys getting open, he only sees guys open or not open. That is a very, very hard thing to scout whether that ability develops or not.

I suspect for his entire rookie contract, you see a Wilson type player. 600-800 very effective yards rushing. Scary rushing yards that gets lots and lots of first downs and critical plays. But in the pass game, I see him being very, very simplistic for a while. Lots of Chip Kelly stuff: WR screens, option passes to one read only, 9-routes and bombs to keep the safeties outside the box. Fades and slants in the red zone.

And just like Wilson, Kapernick and Newton, I think teams will be very torn (but forced) to pay huge amounts of dollars for a franchise QB they have no idea what he will look like at age 30 when his running game starts to waiver or he starts getting beat up.

I guess that's okay really. It's still better to have a guy like Russell Wilson than NOT have anything (like 10-12 teams in the league). But I'm not sure those GM's are quite as comfortable as the teams with more traditional, successful QB's that do 90% of their damage from the pocket.