Both Houston and the Giants have shown how to rattle Brady. How we take NOTHING away from that film study just blows my mind. Either exceptionally arrogant and stubborn or just plain stupid.
Make the Steelers defense great again
- Thread starter TazManianDevil
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Both Houston and the Giants have shown how to rattle Brady. How we take NOTHING away from that film study just blows my mind. Either exceptionally arrogant and stubborn or just plain stupid.
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Complete garbage! We are NOT 1 or 2 players away!
Stop dreaming! There WILL BE NO MORE STEEL CURTAIN! The past is gone forever!
Defense is irrelevant - scoring 40+ a game is the only way!!!!!!!!!!!
Forget drafting - ALL top draft picks should go to offense!!!!!!!!
Quit wasting valuable draft picks on more stiffs on defense. Buy one or two pass rush specialty FA's, just enough to slow em down.
ALL OFFENSE is the future - Just like I perdicted!
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I'm not trying to apologize for Tomlin's (and the teams) performance. It wasn't good enough. Not even close.
But it's a more difficult call than you guys are making it out to be to change what has actually worked really well over our last 9 games entering Sunday.
Over the last 9 games (before New England) we only allowed 150 points scored on 89 drives/possessions against us. That is VERY good. We only allowed 22 plays 20+ yards. We had interceptions in EVERY game and 11 total. We averaged only 221 yards against in the air and didn't allow one 300 yard game against.
You make it seem like an easy decision to say, "Ditch all that and let's change all we are doing because it's Tom Brady".....
Look, in hindsight, yes he should have done it. Brady torched us. Everything good in the last 9 games was the exact opposite in game 10. And maybe Tomlin should have been more prepared for a Plan B (I agree with this).
But we have two rookies in the secondary and I would venture they aren't the smartest cookies in the jar. Do you want to overwhelm them on a tough week with new assignments AND expect them to study one of the best coached and complicated passing attacks in the league?
For all we know, we DID try stuff new and different and that's exactly why our guys were out of position and lost on occasion.
It is what it is. We were 6 point underdogs for a reason. We aren't that good yet. And certainly not good enough to play a New England team that looked to bring their A-game to the table. We needed a LOT to fall our way to win, including maybe Brady and others to makes some unforced errors. That didn't happen (not even close).
But it's a more difficult call than you guys are making it out to be to change what has actually worked really well over our last 9 games entering Sunday.
Over the last 9 games (before New England) we only allowed 150 points scored on 89 drives/possessions against us. That is VERY good. We only allowed 22 plays 20+ yards. We had interceptions in EVERY game and 11 total. We averaged only 221 yards against in the air and didn't allow one 300 yard game against.
You make it seem like an easy decision to say, "Ditch all that and let's change all we are doing because it's Tom Brady".....
Look, in hindsight, yes he should have done it. Brady torched us. Everything good in the last 9 games was the exact opposite in game 10. And maybe Tomlin should have been more prepared for a Plan B (I agree with this).
But we have two rookies in the secondary and I would venture they aren't the smartest cookies in the jar. Do you want to overwhelm them on a tough week with new assignments AND expect them to study one of the best coached and complicated passing attacks in the league?
For all we know, we DID try stuff new and different and that's exactly why our guys were out of position and lost on occasion.
It is what it is. We were 6 point underdogs for a reason. We aren't that good yet. And certainly not good enough to play a New England team that looked to bring their A-game to the table. We needed a LOT to fall our way to win, including maybe Brady and others to makes some unforced errors. That didn't happen (not even close).
We TOTALLY changed what we had been doing for 9 games. We quit blitzing and went into a soft zone coverage. I would have loved to have seen how the game unfolded had we played the same defense we did for the past 8 weeks.
landpirate123
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Yesterday we had 2 DL's and a joke trying a 3 man rush. We don't have the manpower for the 4 in a 4-3 defense. Truth is they rarely play a true 3-4 anymore. It's all about the sub packages.We need to be about the blitz! Bring back Blitzburg!
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Well, you could argue the best we ever played against Brady/Belichick was when injuries forced us to abandon the "must play 4 LB's" mentality this team has had for 25 years.
Back in 2011, we started a banged up Woodley, Timmons played OLB and both Farrior and Harrison were out. We AVERAGE 3.22 LB's per play that day and ended up playing DIME coverage 41/50 snaps (the only time THAT WHOLE SEASON!). We played tons of man-under coverage on the slot receivers, dared them to run against our front and STILL had double safeties on the field.
Brady still have a 100.0+ rating but we held them to 17 points and Brady had only 200 yards on 35 attempts. We tackled well that game, still got 3 sacks (a few coverage sacks if I remember).
That's the only time I saw anything close to different from us against Brady and it worked and I've never seen us run DIME against him since.
Kind of hard to understand that.
Back in 2011, we started a banged up Woodley, Timmons played OLB and both Farrior and Harrison were out. We AVERAGE 3.22 LB's per play that day and ended up playing DIME coverage 41/50 snaps (the only time THAT WHOLE SEASON!). We played tons of man-under coverage on the slot receivers, dared them to run against our front and STILL had double safeties on the field.
Brady still have a 100.0+ rating but we held them to 17 points and Brady had only 200 yards on 35 attempts. We tackled well that game, still got 3 sacks (a few coverage sacks if I remember).
That's the only time I saw anything close to different from us against Brady and it worked and I've never seen us run DIME against him since.
Kind of hard to understand that.
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They need to at least, I hate to say, cause he's been a great steeler, fire Carnell lake and bring a bonafied pass defense expert. Mangenious, Eric Mangini I dare say is available and he knows how to defend Brady. That would be a start.
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You simply can't not defeat Brady without pressure up the middle. Numbers don't lie. If he has to move his feet he's a different kind of qb. Crenel the old ne dC now working For the Texans put his best pass rusher right over center and it worked. We put Dupree in zone coverage. It didn't.
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There wasn't one big hit from the Steelers yesterday.
Not One.
They completely failed to assert themselves at any level. They were dictated to from the start.
I mean ****. I just feel defeated. Why was Dupree not doing to Brady what he did to Moore? Just ONE hit like that and the ******* game is completely different. One Massive Harrison sack and the game is different.
But no. ******* Tomlin has HARRISON in pass coverage. God I hope you read this Mike. I really hope you do. And I hope you feel the weight of your failure. How do you NOT put Dupree and Harrison on blitz duty while asking Mitchell and Shazier to cover routes over the middle AFTER smacking the **** out of Edelman and Hogan at the line?
How ******* hard is that? Every ******* play you hit them at the line. Hard as you can hit them. Then release the wide receivers to a CB and pick up the TE. Or let Timmons roam for the TE if he's out of your reach. Sure you're going to give up some plays to Bennet that way. Ok. But ****. Those Tiny ******* receivers are going to get really ******* weary of getting their ***** kicked on EVERY ******* SNAP.
Oh my GOD. I'm so irritated. You had James ******* Harrison in coverage. You ******* tool. I know. It was Butler. But how do YOU as a head coach not watch that ******* debacle unfold and not say, "Hey uh, Keith... You smokin' white boy crack or something?"
Not One.
They completely failed to assert themselves at any level. They were dictated to from the start.
I mean ****. I just feel defeated. Why was Dupree not doing to Brady what he did to Moore? Just ONE hit like that and the ******* game is completely different. One Massive Harrison sack and the game is different.
But no. ******* Tomlin has HARRISON in pass coverage. God I hope you read this Mike. I really hope you do. And I hope you feel the weight of your failure. How do you NOT put Dupree and Harrison on blitz duty while asking Mitchell and Shazier to cover routes over the middle AFTER smacking the **** out of Edelman and Hogan at the line?
How ******* hard is that? Every ******* play you hit them at the line. Hard as you can hit them. Then release the wide receivers to a CB and pick up the TE. Or let Timmons roam for the TE if he's out of your reach. Sure you're going to give up some plays to Bennet that way. Ok. But ****. Those Tiny ******* receivers are going to get really ******* weary of getting their ***** kicked on EVERY ******* SNAP.
Oh my GOD. I'm so irritated. You had James ******* Harrison in coverage. You ******* tool. I know. It was Butler. But how do YOU as a head coach not watch that ******* debacle unfold and not say, "Hey uh, Keith... You smokin' white boy crack or something?"
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The reason for this is we were playing a QUALITY Team this week, unlike the last number of weeks during the season. The team played almost the same against the Fins and Chiefs as the Pats, the competition just kept getting better each week. It would be great to play the Browns, Bengals, Bills and Jets every Play Off Game, but there is a reason they don't make it.
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Don't give up on the possibility of it being BOTH.
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I have no idea why they won't commit to this for these matchups. It's mind boggling.
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There were some difference from the 2011 game to now. First, we had a lot of trust in our safeties. By then you had Lebeau know he could count on Polamalu and Clark to cover up some mistakes in the pick routes New England is so good as using against man-under coverage. And that trust with the veterans on that team kind of went to everyone to do their jobs.
I'm not sure Tomlin/Butler have that type of trust with this young group yet (although it's their job to MAKE them trustworthy).
I don't know. I would have tried a lot more bump/physical coverage. Anything to get their timing off a little.
I'm actually wondering if Tomlin/Butler did add a bunch to the playbook and that is why we looked so lost on some plays and some guys just got completely wide open. I think we had blown coverages about 3-4 times. Kind of hard to "blow" simple zone concepts you've been doing to 9 weeks. Something else was going on and maybe we need to give credit to the Patriots for their route combinations that generated so much confusion in our secondary.
When you play New England, the game really does come down to X's and O's and perfect execution. You know they are going to do those things better than every other team you face and you have to match them upstairs and in the film room. I think the late game on Sunday and the extra day Belichick had to prepare mattered (as much as Tomlin wanted it not to). Maybe we looked a bit beat up too and maybe the win streak and intensity of all those games took it's toll.
Not excuses, just observations.
We have some more work to do.
Hargrave and Tuitt rush the middle, taking up 3 blockers. If they try to single Hargrave and Tuitt both, it's a long day for the Patsies.
Harrison and Dupree are rushing the edge as if their hair is on fire. Send a CB or safety blitz, either side, 5-6x in the game. Patsies have struggled with CB and safety blitzes for a number of years, as their pass defense is dictated by inside-out protection, to give Brady room to step up.
Go nickel or dime. Dare NE to run the ball 12 times in a row. Dare them. Jesus, they won't - they can't. Harrison, Dupree, Tuitt and Hargrave are a load to handle on running plays, and with Shazier in the middle, along with a dime S, the team can stop the running game, even in dime, I posit.
Further, have your best bump corners jam the two outside receivers all game. Every play. Hit them. Redirect them. Delay them. Throw off the timing.
Shazier and Davis in the middle to track Edelman and whoever else is slot receiver, and use the 5 yards to hit them as well. Give the pass rush 3 seconds to beat NE's line, which has in fact struggled against good pass rushes.
But hey, rushing 3 and dropping Harrison or Dupree, and giving Brady all ******* day to find unmolested receivers running wide open across the middle - what could go wrong???
Having Heyward back will be a big step to making this D great. Then find a way to keep Heyward, Hargrave, and Tuitt on the field, all the time.
It's not the coach...it's the CB's they have.
They didn't beat the Patriots last year with just OLB's. They have CB's who can play man coverage all day l ong.
We did pretty well playing aggressive defense in the win streak leading up to this game, no need to piss down your leg and use a totally passive game plan
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Find the nest Rod Woodson, Troy Polamalu, or Carnell Lake.
If that can't happen, I'll settle for Ike Taylor and Thomas Everett.
Heck we could use the next Deshea Townsend!
Burns can be one of these guys. Davis is solid enough now, but his lack of plays on the ball need work.
Tackling a guy 10 yards past the line of scrimmage many times means your beat or the corner is beaten. If you want a great defense, that stuff has to be limited!
ROBERT ZEWE FROM ERIE, PA:
Why didn't the Steelers adjust and come out of the zone defense versus the Patriots. They have the players to play man, why not do it? Why not use*Justin Gilbert*more?

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ANSWER: What you're describing is not an adjustment but an overhaul of the way they had been playing in the secondary during the nine-game winning streak, and that cannot happen on the sideline during a game. You say the Steelers have the players to play man coverage, but I disagree heartily when the opponent is Tom Brady. Forget the receivers, the real opponent for the pass defense is Brady. If you think Brady wouldn't have carved up man-coverage on Sunday, you're delusional. It's not as simple as just assigning a defensive back to a wide receiver or a tight end or a running back and saying, "Cover him." The Patriots put guys in motion, they run crossing routes. With the rules the way they are, how's a defensive back supposed to deal with that? Certain guys need help, and everybody has to know if they're getting help or not, and if they're getting help where it's coming from. And you're gonna try to draw that up on the sideline between series? Brady's accuracy will eat you alive, and for bigger chunks of yards than he was getting Sunday night.
I don't disagree that the Steelers pass defense was awful in that game, but how positive are you that it was scheme and not player error? It's likely that it was some mix of the two, but the scheme can only ask the personnel to do what's realistic for them. On Sunday, the Steelers started three virtual rookies in their secondary -*Artie Burns,*Sean Davis, and*Ross Cockrell*- and against that quarterback in that venue with those stakes, asking them to play man-coverage would have been like juggling nitroglycerin.
Maybe the plan could've been tweaked to prevent the Patriots receivers from always getting a free release off the line of scrimmage, and maybe the plan was made to look worse than it was by mental errors and poor play. Agreed, it was below the line, but where I disagree is that it's too complex with too many moving parts to believe it could've been changed/fixed mid-game.
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Why didn't the Steelers adjust and come out of the zone defense versus the Patriots. They have the players to play man, why not do it? Why not use*Justin Gilbert*more?

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ANSWER: What you're describing is not an adjustment but an overhaul of the way they had been playing in the secondary during the nine-game winning streak, and that cannot happen on the sideline during a game. You say the Steelers have the players to play man coverage, but I disagree heartily when the opponent is Tom Brady. Forget the receivers, the real opponent for the pass defense is Brady. If you think Brady wouldn't have carved up man-coverage on Sunday, you're delusional. It's not as simple as just assigning a defensive back to a wide receiver or a tight end or a running back and saying, "Cover him." The Patriots put guys in motion, they run crossing routes. With the rules the way they are, how's a defensive back supposed to deal with that? Certain guys need help, and everybody has to know if they're getting help or not, and if they're getting help where it's coming from. And you're gonna try to draw that up on the sideline between series? Brady's accuracy will eat you alive, and for bigger chunks of yards than he was getting Sunday night.
I don't disagree that the Steelers pass defense was awful in that game, but how positive are you that it was scheme and not player error? It's likely that it was some mix of the two, but the scheme can only ask the personnel to do what's realistic for them. On Sunday, the Steelers started three virtual rookies in their secondary -*Artie Burns,*Sean Davis, and*Ross Cockrell*- and against that quarterback in that venue with those stakes, asking them to play man-coverage would have been like juggling nitroglycerin.
Maybe the plan could've been tweaked to prevent the Patriots receivers from always getting a free release off the line of scrimmage, and maybe the plan was made to look worse than it was by mental errors and poor play. Agreed, it was below the line, but where I disagree is that it's too complex with too many moving parts to believe it could've been changed/fixed mid-game.
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Dupree and other D players are saying they weren't ready or prepared for the Patriots offense. WTF!!!!!!!! How the **** could they not be prepared? That is 100% on Butler and Tomlin. Someone seriously needs to be fired if the D was not prepared for what was obviously coming. That and the fact they made zero and I mean zero adjustments to what was happening to them.
We have known to win a Super Bowl, we would have to go through the Patriots. Why the **** wouldn't we build a D to do just that? If our D, even with the young guys, can't play man to man and where they check their man at the line, then we should draft and hire players that can do that. It's always been that way. You build your defense to beat the best. Why have we not been doing that?
Sorry to rant but when I am reading today that the D players are saying they were not prepared for what New England did, I am astonished and beyond pissed off. Fire someone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We have known to win a Super Bowl, we would have to go through the Patriots. Why the **** wouldn't we build a D to do just that? If our D, even with the young guys, can't play man to man and where they check their man at the line, then we should draft and hire players that can do that. It's always been that way. You build your defense to beat the best. Why have we not been doing that?
Sorry to rant but when I am reading today that the D players are saying they were not prepared for what New England did, I am astonished and beyond pissed off. Fire someone!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mitchell said the flea flicker caught them off guard, and they haven't seen that before. They ran it 4 weeks ago or whatever it was when they played Baltimore.
Dupree said the up pace tempo caught them off guard.
Anyone that has watched the defense over the past two months knows damn well we weren't playing that soft zone **** that we played vs NE
Dupree said the up pace tempo caught them off guard.
Anyone that has watched the defense over the past two months knows damn well we weren't playing that soft zone **** that we played vs NE
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Of course Mitchell is saying that. He'll never come out and say "oh I bit awfully hard on it, ****** up, and it was my guy that made the touchdown." Think about it, a flea flicker is similar to play action; you hope that everyone bites on the supposed running play, and kill them with a pass. Mitchell showed no discipline, didn't respect the pass, and bit towards the line. Hell, New England was saying as much, that they knew Mitchell was gonna bite. I feel he would've done the same damn thing had brady did a play fake on that play. If you wanna blame that on coaching, so be it. Also, look at that second td to hogan; Robert golden sold out on the fact that brady moved to his left, so golden went with the quarterback instead of sticking with his man, who just so happened to be wide ******* open in the end zone. Worst of that particular play, is that there were 2 other defenders in the area, and exactly 0 patriots players. What the **** was Golden doing? That was not coached that way. The defensive gameplan sucked, but these guys fell the **** apart in the red zone, a place where they were really good during the season. If I'm not mistaken, both those plays were third down plays as well. A couple huge mental mistakes by a couple players cost us 14 points. Stick to what you should be doing, on these two particular plays, and maybe it's only 6 points and a different game.
Blitz the ******* QB instead of giving him 9.5 seconds to throw the ball there and it's not a TD either. Worst defensive game plan you could ever come up with against Brady. Other teams switch between man and zone coverage in game all the time. If our staff can't manage that, then it speaks volumes about our coaching staff.