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Losing Munch will be our biggest mistake to date

Cras108er said:
Through his first twelve seasons he does.
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I don't even know if that's true or not, because your first statement was bullshit, and even if it is...so what?

Nobody cares who wins the President's Trophy in the NHL for the best regular season record, and nobody but you Tomlin nuthuggers gives a **** about his wonderful regular season record through 12 years.
 
topseed said:
I don't even know if that's true or not, because your first statement was bullshit, and even if it is...so what?

Nobody cares who wins the President's Trophy in the NHL for the best regular season record, and nobody but you Tomlin nuthuggers gives a **** about his wonderful regular season record through 12 years.
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I don't know what he's talking about. He can't be talking about total wins because Tomlin is tied for 29th in that category. Can't be winning percentage either because he is 15th in that. I guess you could dream up a category like during his 12 years he is the 2nd winning-est coach with 12 years experience??? Maybe?
 
Ike Kelly said:
Just that, still losing records for both. Plus Chin had three more years to win 3 and lose 2 more games.


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He also did it with Kordell "wormburner" Stewart and not a HOF QB. BTW do you think Tomlin is going to win 3 more playoff games and lose 2 more in the next 3 years?
 
Ike Kelly said:
Just that, still losing records for both. Plus Chin had three more years to win 3 and lose 2 more games.
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So, you're proud of Mike Tomlin's 5-7 playoff record in non-SB seasons because....Cowher happened to be 8-9 in his?

Let's see, since we're arbitrarily picking out playoff records, how about we look at their most recent work?

Cowher was 6-3 in his last 9 playoff games. Tomlin is 3-6 in his last 9.

Hmmmm.
 
Vader said:
He also did it with Kordell "wormburner" Stewart and not a HOF QB. BTW do you think Tomlin is going to win 3 more playoff games and lose 2 more in the next 3 years?
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Yeah Kordell really dangled the carrot. Wondered had Chan Gailey stayed, would he had improved rather than imploding. No doubt Sherman and Gilbride screwed his development.

As for PO wins....who knows at this point. We are all gnashing our teeth for better defense, but Goodell continues to handicap genuine defensive play in favor of offense highlights.


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topseed said:
So, you're proud of Mike Tomlin's 5-7 playoff record in non-SB seasons because....Cowher happened to be 8-9 in his?

Let's see, since we're arbitrarily picking out playoff records, how about we look at their most recent work?

Cowher was 6-3 in his last 9 playoff games. Tomlin is 3-6 in his last 9.

Hmmmm.
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I’m not proud of any record except wins and Championships. And I pull for one every year, regardless of the coach. I sat through purgatory with Chuck’s 80’s and 90’s team. Loved Cowher even though those AFCC games were coronary producing and non-playoff seasons disappointing. I have no doubt they were cheated out of at least 2 more championships before he retired. Same goes for Tomlin. Does he have warts as did Chin? Oh, definitely. Both are stubborn to change. But the game itself has changed and still is changing. Don’t be surprised Kickoffs will be gone in less than 5 years.

One thing is definitely clear...Rozelle’s dream has come true. Parity in playoffs. Except with the cheats, there is continual turnover.


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Not sure why anybody would want to remove Cowher's SB winning season from his playoff record. I suppose it would be to try to show that 1 year was a fluke and he sucked otherwise.

The exact opposite is true. Cowher was a great playoff coach


Bill Cowher - 15 seasons 1992 - 2006
Playoffs in 10 of 15 years
Playoff record 12-9 (57%)
Super Bowl Wins 1
Super Bowl Loss 1
AFC Champ appearances (other than SB years) 4
One and Done playoff seasons 2

Cowher went 1 and done in his first 2 seasons as coach. He NEVER went 1 and done again in his other 8 playoff seasons

Cowher's Playoff Record by QB
O'Donnell 3-4 , including 1 AFCC and 1 SB appearance, made playofs all 4 seasons as starter
Tomczak 1-1 in same season
Kordell 2-2 in 2 playoff seasons (1-1 each) reached AFCC twice
Maddox 1-1 in same season
Big Ben 5-1 in 2 playoff seasons 1 AFCC loss. 1 SB win

It is clear that Cowher got the steelers to overachieve most seasons. He made it to the AFC Champ twice with Kordell. He nearly beat the dynasty Cowboys with O'Donnell


Mike Tomlin Playoff record - All with Big Ben
12 seasons 2007 - 2018
Playoffs in 8 of 12 seasons
Playoff Record 8-7 (53%)
Super Bowl Wins 1
Super Bowl Loss 1
AFC Champ appearance (other than SB years) 1
One and Done playoff seasons 4



Cowher's playoff record is far more impressive. A few points

O'Donnell started 4 years, went 1 and done in playoffs the first 2, then he went to an AFCC and a SB the next 2. He then became a free agent and signed a huge deal with the Jets. The Steelers had to find a new QB and it set them back.

O'Donnel wasn't great but he was pretty good and a good fit with the steelers. If he hadn't left, steelers possibly win a SB with him


Another key point is that the old AFC Central was a much tougher division that the current AFC North.

The AFC Central had 5 teams for 4 seasons (8 div games) and 6 teams for 3 seasons (10 freaking division games)

AFC Central - Pitt, Cleve, Cinn, Balt, Tenn, Jax

The Jags were damn good for stretches and the games with the Titans were always battles, that was on top of the other division games.

Cowher went 13-3 and made an AFC Champ game, losing to the Elway, Terrell Davis team that cheated the salary cap to be so strong.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
Not sure why anybody would want to remove Cowher's SB winning season from his playoff record. I suppose it would be to try to show that 1 year was a fluke and he sucked otherwise.

The exact opposite is true. Cowher was a great playoff coach.
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Nope, just wanted to show how records can be extrapolated to showcase any viewpoint. Positive or negative......Well, except for Hue Jackson and Rich Kotite.




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Art Rooney II is the biggest problem with this team. His lack of leadership as an owner and his inability to admit his wrongs will be this teams undoing.


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tapeANaspirin2it said:
Not sure why anybody would want to remove Cowher's SB winning season from his playoff record. I suppose it would be to try to show that 1 year was a fluke and he sucked otherwise.

The exact opposite is true. Cowher was a great playoff coach


Bill Cowher - 15 seasons 1992 - 2006
Playoffs in 10 of 15 years
Playoff record 12-9 (57%)
Super Bowl Wins 1
Super Bowl Loss 1
AFC Champ appearances (other than SB years) 4
One and Done playoff seasons 2

Cowher went 1 and done in his first 2 seasons as coach. He NEVER went 1 and done again in his other 8 playoff seasons

Cowher's Playoff Record by QB
O'Donnell 3-4 , including 1 AFCC and 1 SB appearance, made playofs all 4 seasons as starter
Tomczak 1-1 in same season
Kordell 2-2 in 2 playoff seasons (1-1 each) reached AFCC twice
Maddox 1-1 in same season
Big Ben 5-1 in 2 playoff seasons 1 AFCC loss. 1 SB win

It is clear that Cowher got the steelers to overachieve most seasons. He made it to the AFC Champ twice with Kordell. He nearly beat the dynasty Cowboys with O'Donnell


Mike Tomlin Playoff record - All with Big Ben
12 seasons 2007 - 2018
Playoffs in 8 of 12 seasons
Playoff Record 8-7 (53%)
Super Bowl Wins 1
Super Bowl Loss 1
AFC Champ appearance (other than SB years) 1
One and Done playoff seasons 4



Cowher's playoff record is far more impressive. A few points

O'Donnell started 4 years, went 1 and done in playoffs the first 2, then he went to an AFCC and a SB the next 2. He then became a free agent and signed a huge deal with the Jets. The Steelers had to find a new QB and it set them back.

O'Donnel wasn't great but he was pretty good and a good fit with the steelers. If he hadn't left, steelers possibly win a SB with him


Another key point is that the old AFC Central was a much tougher division that the current AFC North.

The AFC Central had 5 teams for 4 seasons (8 div games) and 6 teams for 3 seasons (10 freaking division games)

AFC Central - Pitt, Cleve, Cinn, Balt, Tenn, Jax

The Jags were damn good for stretches and the games with the Titans were always battles, that was on top of the other division games.

Cowher went 13-3 and made an AFC Champ game, losing to the Elway, Terrell Davis team that cheated the salary cap to be so strong.
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Like I said I can't think of another coach that coached two different QBs to multiple conference title games, and he did it with 3 different QBs. Totally over hauled the defense and Oline twice.
I don't think Cowher got the recognition he deserved. He seemed to get the absolute most out of his players/teams.

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Ike Kelly said:
I’m not proud of any record except wins and Championships. And I pull for one every year, regardless of the coach. I sat through purgatory with Chuck’s 80’s and 90’s team. Loved Cowher even though those AFCC games were coronary producing and non-playoff seasons disappointing. I have no doubt they were cheated out of at least 2 more championships before he retired. Same goes for Tomlin. Does he have warts as did Chin? Oh, definitely. Both are stubborn to change. But the game itself has changed and still is changing. Don’t be surprised Kickoffs will be gone in less than 5 years.

One thing is definitely clear...Rozelle’s dream has come true. Parity in playoffs. Except with the cheats, there is continual turnover.


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Click to expand...

Not sure how the pats**** cheated Tomlin out of 2 since he has only played them once in the playoffs. Tomlin has been put out of the playoffs by many other teams but not the pats***.
 
Ike Kelly said:
I’m not proud of any record except wins and Championships. And I pull for one every year, regardless of the coach. I sat through purgatory with Chuck’s 80’s and 90’s team. Loved Cowher even though those AFCC games were coronary producing and non-playoff seasons disappointing. I have no doubt they were cheated out of at least 2 more championships before he retired. Same goes for Tomlin. Does he have warts as did Chin? Oh, definitely. Both are stubborn to change. But the game itself has changed and still is changing. Don’t be surprised Kickoffs will be gone in less than 5 years.

One thing is definitely clear...Rozelle’s dream has come true. Parity in playoffs. Except with the cheats, there is continual turnover.


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Click to expand...
How was Cowher stubborn to change? Almost every playoffs we came out aggressive throwing the ball even though this teams were built on the run?
Everyone always says Marty ball, turtle ball, blah, blah, blah. 1994 AFCCG Neil threw the ball 52 times and we had a 10 point lead at the half and didn't trail until mid way through the 4th.
2001 AFCCG we threw it like 27 times in the first half compared to only 9 runs in a close game.
2005 playoffs we came out throwing in those games as well.

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topseed said:
Or just two less playoff wins and a worse winning percentage (8-7) than Mike McCarthy (10-8), who started the same year, and just got fired earlier this season.

Or the same number of playoff wins and a worse winning percentage over the last EIGHT years (3-5) than Ron Rivera (3-4), who coincidentally also saw his team piss away a playoff berth with a late-season collapse, and is on the hot seat in Carolina.

We can play this game all night, slick.
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So we are both right. You have to take them both. Not just one or the other.
 
Coryea said:
Like I said I can't think of another coach that coached two different QBs to multiple conference title games, and he did it with 3 different QBs. Totally over hauled the defense and Oline twice.
I don't think Cowher got the recognition he deserved. He seemed to get the absolute most out of his players/teams.

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Click to expand...

Not to mention Cowher also had to replace offensive and defensive coaches fairly often as they got head coaching jobs.
 
Vader said:
Not sure how the pats**** cheated Tomlin out of 2 since he has only played them once in the playoffs. Tomlin has been put out of the playoffs by many other teams but not the pats***.
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I meant Chin got cheated out of two by NE Vader.


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FordFairLane said:
Art Rooney II is the biggest problem with this team. His lack of leadership as an owner and his inability to admit his wrongs will be this teams undoing.
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I've basically landed here too. It's almost like the team cares more about history and tradition than they do about winning in the current landscape. The organization as a whole has become arrogant and they seem to be maintaining that through this ordeal. I've moved past trying to assess blame otherwise; it's futile. A lot of the answers to questions that get batted around with respect to this team can be boiled down to "that's how they've always done it". The refusal to do anything of consequence in free agency. The unwillingness to move on from coaches despite all evidence pointing them being downright inept. No (or half-assed) effort to leverage draft picks/position to maximize the haul.

Tomlin's attitude is kind of an extension of this to me. Hell, maybe that's what they like about him. The blindness to the cultural shift that has taken place with social media and the need to reign it in is directly on him, but it certainly seems like he has ARII's support in his handling of it. In order for "treating the players like men" to work, the players have to act like men. A lot of these guys don't. I'm not certain what is so hard to recognize about that. The stubbornness in admitting he needs help with clock management and video reviews also aligns with this.

At a microcosmic level you could even argue that some of the in-game deficiencies (specifically their inability to adapt or even recognize when the initial game plan isn't working out) are a manifestation of this same sort of arrogance...
 
Cope said:
So we are both right. You have to take them both. Not just one or the other.
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I don't know if you're right. You're saying Tomlin is behind only Shula and Dungy for their regular season record in their first 12 years. If you say so and that is indeed the case, fine, but again, nobody gives a ****.

Jim Harbaugh has the fifth-best regular season winning percentage of all-time at 44-19-1 (.695). Does that mean Jim Harbaugh is the fifth-best head coach in NFL history?

Mike Martz has a better regular season winning percentage than Bill Walsh. Do I even need to ask the next question?

So, anyway...how many Super Bowls did Shula or Dungy win after their 12th seasons? Did their wonderful regular season records after 12 years lead to more championships later on? I'll give you a hint -- the combined total is less than one.
 
Next year will clarify things for everyone. Cleveland will be our problem. Baltimore has a gimmick QB. Bungles have a new coach. Steelers will be exactly the same.
 
topseed said:
I don't know if you're right. You're saying Tomlin is behind only Shula and Dungy for their regular season record in their first 12 years. If you say so and that is indeed the case, fine, but again, nobody gives a ****.

Jim Harbaugh has the fifth-best regular season winning percentage of all-time at 44-19-1 (.695). Does that mean Jim Harbaugh is the fifth-best head coach in NFL history?

Mike Martz has a better regular season winning percentage than Bill Walsh. Do I even need to ask the next question?

So, anyway...how many Super Bowls did Shula or Dungy win after their 12th seasons? Did their wonderful regular season records after 12 years lead to more championships later on? I'll give you a hint -- the combined total is less than one.
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My numbers are right for the number of wins. He was only behind Shula 2 years ago. This year he is behind Shula and Dungy. With 3 more wins, he would have been #1 all time and the Steelers would have been in the playoffs...
 
Denver still wants Munchak as their offensive line coach. Rooney needs to bust out the check book and tell Munchak to name his price.
 
SteelerFan448 said:
Denver still wants Munchak as their offensive line coach. Rooney needs to bust out the check book and tell Munchak to name his price.
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Name his price... AND... give him the title of OL Coach and Asst Head Coach. This would mean that as long as we have him under contract... another team could only get him as their HC.

.
 
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