Look, it's time to admit something

[Steeltime]

The Steelers would be in a much better position right now and in terms of talent level for the next several seasons at least if the Baltimore kicker had made the field goal. That happens, the Steelers are drafting at 14 and 45 instead of 21 and 53. Players likely available at 14 include Spencer Fano, Francis Mauigoa (whose best comp is Tyler Smith), Dillon Thieneman and the incredibly gifted and productive health risk, Jordyn Tyson. I wager none of those guys, all with elite level talent, is available at 21. The talent drop-off after pick 15 or 16 is considerable.

At 45 instead of 53, players like Emmanuel McNeil-Warren, Emmanuel Pregnon (I guess Emmanuel is the go-to second round name), Genesis Smith may well be available. Admittedly due to the talent level of this player pool, the drop-off in talent between 45 and 53 is nowhere close to the difference between 14 and 21 since a lot of guys seem to be 20 to 50 pick talent level but still, the drop-off is present.

Coryea's "WTF Are We Doing?" thread makes the point that the Steelers have basically no elite, game-changing talent. The No Losing Season, Draft At Pick 20-25 inevitably leads to that. Look, nobody here roots for defeat but at a certain point it's time to admit that clawing your way into the #4 or #7 seed and facing almost certain first-round shellacking is not a viable approach.

Or I guess we can believe that Tommy Maddox leading the Steelers to a dramatic 14-13 win over the Ravens on December 28, 2003 was spectacular and that getting the #15 pick in the 2004 draft instead of #11 would have resulted in drafting Shawn Andrews, who of course would lead the team to three SB appearances and two SB wins.

 

[slashsteel]

What are we needing to admit?

 

[ZonaBurgh]

While the future can't be predicted, I can see them picking 20-23 again next year and subsequent years.
I don't know what the solution is to get this team out of the rut that management, ownership and coaching have put them in, but the standard is in dire need of change.

 

[Steeltime]

What are we needing to admit?

I guess I should have identified exactly what we needed to admit early on, maybe even the first sentence, by writing something along the lines of, "The Steelers would be in a much better position right now and in terms of talent level for the next several seasons at least if the Baltimore kicker had made the field goal."

Wait ...

 

[Steelr4evr]

Being stuck in mediocrity for over the decade ****** us long term.

It always gave the illusion that we're close to taking that next step up,but in reality we stayed exactly in the same place.

Getting rag dolled in the playoffs isn't success.

So here we are. The team still needs a big influx of talent and I damn sure hope with the new much larger coaching staff,the rookie/ young player development is back to being above the line.

 

[diver]

If sucking guaranteed success, the Bengals would have about 10 Super Bowls championships.

 

[xjx]

I have hope. We have a whole new coaching staff. A new approach. Forget about Tomlin and his ways. A new day is dawning in the gloomy grey Pittsburgh sky.

 

[Coryea]

I have hope. We have a whole new coaching staff. A new approach. Forget about Tomlin and his ways. A new day is dawning in the gloomy grey Pittsburgh sky.

The problem is the guy we hired has pretty much the same resume as Tomlin, he won a Super Bowl almost 2 decades ago, with a decent amount of 1's and done with an elite QB, I guess we're all praying for a Dick Vermeil like comeback by McCarthy.

 

[Coryea]

If sucking guaranteed success, the Bengals would have about 10 Super Bowls championships.

yeah, it's tough for anything to help that organization, but they've been to a Super Bowl and won an AFCCG this decade.

The only thing sucking guarantees is that more talent is available when you pick, it's up to you/organization to make the right pick.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

The problem is the guy we hired has pretty much the same resume as Tomlin, he won a Super Bowl almost 2 decades ago, with a decent amount of 1's and done with an elite QB, I guess we're all praying for a Dick Vermeil like comeback by McCarthy.

I am banking on a couple things with MM, first and foremost is passion for the job he has always wanted in his hometown, second he is a departure from the status quo of hiring defensive coaches and he lastly he is far more an X’s and O’s coach than we have had in a long time. He is also recently willing to hire coaches to delegate jobs to that he hasn’t done well in the past, another departures from Mike T.

MM would be an instant legend if has success here.

PS He wasn’t my first choice but I will support him now that he is here.

 

[Djfan]

I am banking on a couple things with MM, first and foremost is passion for the job he has always wanted in his hometown, second he is a departure from the status quo of hiring defensive coaches and he lastly he is far more an X’s and O’s coach than we have had in a long time. He is also recently willing to hire coaches to delegate jobs to that he hasn’t done well in the past, another departures from Mike T.

MM would be an instant legend if has success here.

PS He wasn’t my first choice but I will support him now that he is here.

Truth. While he has a similar rap sheet to MT, he is very different in many ways. I'm hoping the basics of those differences can step us up some. It looks to me that even basic coaching changes would be an improvement, so anything past that is a bonus.

 

[diver]

yeah, it's tough for anything to help that organization, but they've been to a Super Bowl and won an AFCCG this decade.

The only thing sucking guarantees is that more talent is available when you pick, it's up to you/organization to make the right pick.

I'm not sure last year was the year to do it for this draft. Of the names listed in the original post as players that could be available at 14, are they heads and shoulders above what might be at 21? I wil defer to you all on that, but from what I have heard from guys like Williamson, not really.

 

[Sarge]

The problem is the guy we hired has pretty much the same resume as Tomlin, he won a Super Bowl almost 2 decades ago, with a decent amount of 1's and done with an elite QB, I guess we're all praying for a Dick Vermeil like comeback by McCarthy.

The problem is the owner that thinks the Steelers are just a player or two away from contention. Personally speaking, I think the Steelers would have a faster path to a championship by rebuilding rather than recycling the same tired philosophy of bringing in has been dinosaurs that were excellent players a decade ago and hoping to catch lightning in a bottle.

 

[KStilley]

This has been the Steelers way, the 90’s, this millennium, knock on the door long enough and you’ll finally get in. The 90’s and the early 2000’s were extremely frustrating, always getting close until they broke through in 2005 and three years later. The Duece was being groomed as the next president of the organization and this era indoctrinated him into this approach. The team had more talent then but until we got that hall of fame qb, we couldn’t grab the ring.

We lucked into Rothlesberger and until we get lucky again, I don’t see things changing much. I’m all in on game day but like Steeltime alluded to, a loss in the Baltimore game would have angered me but it would have passed quickly knowing we improved our position in the draft. I doubt many here has had the illusion of a run in the playoffs after that game or really anytime since Ben hurt his shoulder.

I could easily sit through a dismal season in the hopes of getting “that guy.” Unfortunately as others noted, this isn’t in the FO, or coaching staff’s DNA, I don’t blame them, it’s their job.

 

[Coryea]

This has been the Steelers way, the 90’s, this millennium, knock on the door long enough and you’ll finally get in. The 90’s and the early 2000’s were extremely frustrating, always getting close until they broke through in 2005 and three years later. The Duece was being groomed as the next president of the organization and this era indoctrinated him into this approach. The team had more talent then but until we got that hall of fame qb, we couldn’t grab the ring.

We lucked into Rothlesberger and until we get lucky again, I don’t see things changing much. I’m all in on game day but like Steeltime alluded to, a loss in the Baltimore game would have angered me but it would have passed quickly knowing we improved our position in the draft. I doubt many here has had the illusion of a run in the playoffs after that game or really anytime since Ben hurt his shoulder.

I could easily sit through a dismal season in the hopes of getting “that guy.” Unfortunately as others noted, this isn’t in the FO, or coaching staff’s DNA, I don’t blame them, it’s their job.

The 90's early 2000's, they were at least winning playoff games and literally knocking on the door, playing in 4 AFCCG in 8 seasons, would've been 5 in 9 if Joe Nedney wasn't an amazing actor.
If we were in 4 AFCCG the since 2018, there isn't nearly the complaining, but when you get steam rolled in the first playoff game the way we have, well there's obviously issues. Tomlin playing super conservative ball kept us in every game sure, kept us from having a losing season, sure, but the team doesn't improve throughout the season it stays status quo, while other teams are getting better because they're taking chances, seeing what works for them. Then we play one of those teams in the playoffs and we see we aren't in the same class as those teams.

 

[Coryea]

I am banking on a couple things with MM, first and foremost is passion for the job he has always wanted in his hometown, second he is a departure from the status quo of hiring defensive coaches and he lastly he is far more an X’s and O’s coach than we have had in a long time. He is also recently willing to hire coaches to delegate jobs to that he hasn’t done well in the past, another departures from Mike T.

MM would be an instant legend if has success here.

PS He wasn’t my first choice but I will support him now that he is here.

Im excited for the change in philosophy and everything you listed for sure, I guess my thing is Tomlin's big down fall was post season, McCarthy's big down fall has been playoffs.

 

[stillwright]

The problem is the guy we hired has pretty much the same resume as Tomlin, he won a Super Bowl almost 2 decades ago, with a decent amount of 1's and done with an elite QB, I guess we're all praying for a Dick Vermeil like comeback by McCarthy.

I think ownership is the real issue.

 

[diver]

Im excited for the change in philosophy and everything you listed for sure, I guess my thing is Tomlin's big down fall was post season, McCarthy's big down fall has been playoffs.

It seems like one big difference is he has put together a pretty good coaching staff from all accounts.

 

[jitter77]

Drafting earlier does not guarantee success. Look at the teams who consistently draft higher. Even getting a franchise QB is a crap shoot. Mahomes went 10th but the chiefs traded up from 27th to get him. If there is a guy they really want we will move up. We traded up for. We have moved up for Troy, Holmes, bush, and B Jones. 2 were good, Bush was not worth a top 10 and the jury is out on Jones, but not looking good

 

[SteelerSask2]

I think its very fair to say that perpetual living in the middle, doing enough to make the playoffs leads to mediocrity. That was the problem with Tomlin. Not bad enough for 6 or 7 wins. Not good enough to really contend. I also think though Ben earned the right. They hung in too long. That said, all of us get to play the long game. These guys live all week to win every game. And any less of that mentality leads to less then mediocrity.

 

[KStilley]

The 90's early 2000's, they were at least winning playoff games and literally knocking on the door, playing in 4 AFCCG in 8 seasons, would've been 5 in 9 if Joe Nedney wasn't an amazing actor.
If we were in 4 AFCCG the since 2018, there isn't nearly the complaining, but when you get steam rolled in the first playoff game the way we have, well there's obviously issues. Tomlin playing super conservative ball kept us in every game sure, kept us from having a losing season, sure, but the team doesn't improve throughout the season it stays status quo, while other teams are getting better because they're taking chances, seeing what works for them. Then we play one of those teams in the playoffs and we see we aren't in the same class as those teams.

Everything you posted is spot on, they had better teams back then but it doesn’t change the fact that this is the way they approach every season and will continue to do so. I’m on board with change, both players and overall strategy, aggressive offense and defense etc. I think we’ll see that this season to some extent.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Truth. While he has a similar rap sheet to MT, he is very different in many ways. I'm hoping the basics of those differences can step us up some. It looks to me that even basic coaching changes would be an improvement, so anything past that is a bonus.

100 %




Salute the n ation

 

[steelhurt]

Ive said so many times that it starts with the owner.
It’s his vision, philosophy, direction, influence, etc.
Holding on to a HC far too long who produced mediocre squads that produced mediocre results.
I don’t know what always finishing just above 500 ever gets a franchise other than selecting in the 20’s in the draft and missing out on top tier players.
Sure, occasionally you get a Watt but those are few and far between.
McCarthy I think was a comfort hire for this owner. A local guy with success in the league who can emphasize offense with the west coast offense.
I’m not setting expectations high at all. Rodgers when he comes back will help this team to another 9, 10 win season and as Rooney likes to say, anything can happen in the playoffs.
Nothing has changed and it’s business as usual
on Water Street.

 

[slashsteel]

I guess I should have identified exactly what we needed to admit early on, maybe even the first sentence, by writing something along the lines of, "The Steelers would be in a much better position right now and in terms of talent level for the next several seasons at least if the Baltimore kicker had made the field goal."

Wait ...

Yeah I read that . I guess I was just hoping you weren’t serious.

I said it before I will say it again. I’m never, ever, ever am an advocate for losing. I know that isn’t everyone’s take.

I can’t stand it. I despise it.


On any given year they can move up to get a player they covet. Chiefs did it. 49ers, Carolina, Bears…

You can trade picks and players.

I much rather do that than hope for my team to be losers.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Im excited for the change in philosophy and everything you listed for sure, I guess my thing is Tomlin's big down fall was post season, McCarthy's big down fall has been playoffs.

Change of scenery can make a huge difference. Reid was different coach in KC. Mahomes didn't hurt his cause.