Are you kidding me cause he won a super bowl and went to another and gets no credit for either. When he gets credit for either Cowher name wont be brought up when he is critcized
Kovacevic - Polamalu leaves on unhappy terms
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Are you kidding me cause he won a super bowl and went to another and gets no credit for either. When he gets credit for either Cowher name wont be brought up when he is critcized
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He gets the same credit Switzer got in Dallas. Now what can he do with the players he drafted? He still has a franchise QB. Also it's interesting that you want him to have credit but give him no responsibility at all. He didn't fire BA remember? He didn't hire Haley. Rooney did it all remember? Rooney won't let him coach remember? He forced DL on him. Remember? Now you want him to get credit while giving him no blame at all.
You have never heard me say any of that. because I don,t care who hired or fired whom. Switzer gets no credit.
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How much say do you think he had on who his coordinators were? When he was hired he was given DL on the defense(understood). BA was also given to him for his relation to Ben. Both I can understand. I personally thought DL would only be here for a two or three years. I will not get into the whole drafting concept of not drafting 3 - 4 players. In the end I wish Tomlin would just get fired or let go. In my opinion he is just a puppet like Al Davis would hire. Toe the line. That is what he does. The problem with the way our organization is run goes the whole way up to the top. Until ArtII changes his hands on approach things will not change.
A couple of points. First, I have issues with the "they haven't replaced talent." If replacing talent was so easy, the Steelers would have about 30 SB trophies (lets suppose there were a few years of injuries in there). All those guys from the 70s would have been replaced with close to or equal talent and down the line.
As for Polomalu, we better get used to the type of players he may have issue with. Many of them are just spoiled, overindulged babies. I would bet that it will be a special situation if you ever see a team win back to back again or put a run together a multiple SB titles in a few year span. I don't think the attention span and willingness to put aside selfish needs for the good of the team is there among these guys for more than about a year.
Wasn't TP part of 2 SB teams that didn't even make the playoffs the following year?
As for Polomalu, we better get used to the type of players he may have issue with. Many of them are just spoiled, overindulged babies. I would bet that it will be a special situation if you ever see a team win back to back again or put a run together a multiple SB titles in a few year span. I don't think the attention span and willingness to put aside selfish needs for the good of the team is there among these guys for more than about a year.
Wasn't TP part of 2 SB teams that didn't even make the playoffs the following year?
I think when you have a talented roster they get old together I don't think it is unreasonable to think the transition from old to new won't come without some difficulty reflecting on seasons outcomes.
Thing is I see the talent level starting to restock.
With a top QB/WR corps/RB
it will be up to the D to get to the point where it at least doesn't lose games.
How the young talent on D shapes up seems to be the key component on how far the club will go within the next few years barring injury.
If Butler can get them making plays and being where they need to be on D I can see the Steelers going far.
Thing is I see the talent level starting to restock.
With a top QB/WR corps/RB
it will be up to the D to get to the point where it at least doesn't lose games.
How the young talent on D shapes up seems to be the key component on how far the club will go within the next few years barring injury.
If Butler can get them making plays and being where they need to be on D I can see the Steelers going far.
I do know regarding Ernie Holmes that Art SR. or Dan actually got him mental health treatments and testified regarding his episodes in court. The reason he was called mad dog was not just for his activity on the field. As to Lloyd and his domestic issues I never heard anything about it until he was retired from the game after the staph infection. Not making excuses for anyone but in one case it was real mental health issues and in the other not something that may have been going on till later unless you have other info.
Lloyd stuck a gun in his child's mouth after he retired. Not sure about the wife beating accusations.
Lloyd Jr. stated in a tv interview that his dad was abusive when he was playing for the Steelers. That the cops had been called to their house and the only thing that happened was that Greg had to leave the house overnight. iirc. In any event, there are other incidents. Hell there's the Ta'amu incident from a couple of years ago.
I'm not bashing the Steelers. What I'm saying is that people put this idea of "The Steeler Way" out there as if the Steelers are infallible when it comes to dealing with character risks, or as if they don't draft/keep players who have those risks. I'm a fan of the team, but I'm not one who believes in that particular fairy tale.
I think its just the way it is. The NFL is about making money. The way you make the most money is if you win. So you try to keep things in house as much as possible but nowadays its pretty much impossible. Five seconds after something happens its all over twitter and every one knows. You cant release your best players over minor instances. You just have to deal with it on a player by player basis. That's why Cedric Wilson was expendable but James Harrison stayed.
EXACTLY!! Talent trumps trouble until trouble trumps talent.
I was not implying that you were bashing anyone. In your post above you say his son stated in a "tv interview", I am guessing this was sometime later in life. I am not saying what did or did not happen, only that it might not have been known at that time. Secondly there is the accusation with out the response from the accuser, again not saying it did not happen just how much abuse, what triggered the event, and was it something at the time that would have been widely known or even commonly addressed from a team perspective. I don't recall ever hearing about it till he was no longer on the team and that might have been something that was not addressed then but from what we know now should have been.
I am also not saying that I think domestic abuse is ok only that over the years a lot of things that were considered "none of our business" years ago are now hot button issues and receive much more attention than they ever did before.
The best I can tell you is from the many interviews and pieces I have read on the rooneys, the closest thing to "the Steeler way was that they stuck by the guys they drafted or developed when they got into most trouble and gave them more chances, but shied from drafting, trading, or signing players who were known problems without a lot of background checks. A lot of steelers did a lot of terrible things through the years and the Rooneys stuck by them... you just hear more of it these days because of social media
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The Steeler Way was always a presumption that the Steelers operated their franchise to a higher standard then the rest. That is how I took it and think most did also. Obviously they don't. The media anymore turns over every rock to get what dirt they can on any franchise in sports. Turn on ESPN once. It's not about the games any more. It's about the dirt on any aspect of any sport they can dig up. That is one of the reasons I never turn on ESPN anymore. Hell. I would watch it as soon as I woke up, got home from work and in the evening if I had the time to watch TV. I did turn on ESPN for the draft this year though. So Goodell and ESPN got me on that.
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You have to respect Troy. His body of work here is outstanding, and he's a high integrity person. I'd venture a guess that he loved Cowher. As the sun sets on the last of Cowher's old guard two things become clear.
1 ) Colbert has not come close to finding replacements in most cases.
2 ) The lack of team leadership and chemistry has become an issue, which is why the Steelers play down to the level of bad opponents too often.
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In light of point #2, none of the things pointed out in this Depot article (I know, I know) should be happening. On a team w/out leadership and chemistry, you wouldn't have a James Harrison taking the young LBs to Arizona and showing them how he prepares during the off season. You wouldn't have Ben Roethlisberger taking the WRs to Georgia to work on the passing game. You wouldn't have Antwon Blake and Robert Golden helping out at Beachum's camp for kids. That's chemistry and that's Ben and Harrison teaching these youngsters how to be leaders.
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2015/05/steelers-become-better-closer-during-offseason/
As far as point #1. Heyward replaces Diesel. Tuitt replaces Smith. Still waiting on a Casey replacement, but McCullers may be the real deal according to Mitchell. As for Troy and Ike ... Since this will be the first year without them, it's kinda hard to tell whether or not they've been effectively replaced. Still questions at OLB, but they seem to have a lot of talent at ILB. The thing is that the defense is young (finally) and none of the guys that they are attempting to replace were right out of the gate who they eventually became.
BTW, in the picture of Williams and Jones, it looks like Jarvis has actually bulked up. He looks bigger than Williams. Hope it doesn't mess up his speed.
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In light of point #2, none of the things pointed out in this Depot article (I know, I know) should be happening. On a team w/out leadership and chemistry, you wouldn't have a James Harrison taking the young LBs to Arizona and showing them how he prepares during the off season. You wouldn't have Ben Roethlisberger taking the WRs to Georgia to work on the passing game. You wouldn't have Antwon Blake and Robert Golden helping out at Beachum's camp for kids. That's chemistry and that's Ben and Harrison teaching these youngsters how to be leaders.
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2015/05/steelers-become-better-closer-during-offseason/
As far as point #1. Heyward replaces Diesel. Tuitt replaces Smith. Still waiting on a Casey replacement, but McCullers may be the real deal according to Mitchell. As for Troy and Ike ... Since this will be the first year without them, it's kinda hard to tell whether or not they've been effectively replaced. Still questions at OLB, but they seem to have a lot of talent at ILB. The thing is that the defense is young (finally) and none of the guys that they are attempting to replace were right out of the gate who they eventually became.
BTW, in the picture of Williams and Jones, it looks like Jarvis has actually bulked up. He looks bigger than Williams. Hope it doesn't mess up his speed.
In the spirit of your comment on speed Jarvis would likely not be able to move fast if he fell out of an airplane.
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In light of point #2, none of the things pointed out in this Depot article (I know, I know) should be happening. On a team w/out leadership and chemistry, you wouldn't have a James Harrison taking the young LBs to Arizona and showing them how he prepares during the off season. You wouldn't have Ben Roethlisberger taking the WRs to Georgia to work on the passing game. You wouldn't have Antwon Blake and Robert Golden helping out at Beachum's camp for kids. That's chemistry and that's Ben and Harrison teaching these youngsters how to be leaders.
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2015/05/steelers-become-better-closer-during-offseason/
As far as point #1. Heyward replaces Diesel. Tuitt replaces Smith. Still waiting on a Casey replacement, but McCullers may be the real deal according to Mitchell. As for Troy and Ike ... Since this will be the first year without them, it's kinda hard to tell whether or not they've been effectively replaced. Still questions at OLB, but they seem to have a lot of talent at ILB. The thing is that the defense is young (finally) and none of the guys that they are attempting to replace were right out of the gate who they eventually became.
BTW, in the picture of Williams and Jones, it looks like Jarvis has actually bulked up. He looks bigger than Williams. Hope it doesn't mess up his speed.
Tuitt was a rookie. He has not become close to replacing Smith.
Who replaced Troy, Ike, Woodley, and Hampton?
Clark > Mitchell.
There is a reason the defense has become soft. The only person who replaced anyone was Heyward.
The one good thing I can see regarding the future vs the past is the rookies will have an easier time getting experience as there is not much in front of them to be beaten for position.
In regards to Tuitt, I think you might have missed the part where I said: "The thing is that the defense is young (finally) and none of the guys that they are attempting to replace were right out of the gate who they eventually became." Which of course is a nod to the fact that Tuitt has not reached the level that Smith did when Smith was a veteran.
In regards to Troy and Ike, I think you might have missed the part where I said: "As for Troy and Ike ... Since this will be the first year without them, it's kinda hard to tell whether or not they've been effectively replaced." Oh, btw, if you are expecting someone to come in and "BE" Troy in order to replace the HOF Safety ... well, if I were you, I wouldn't hold your breath for that one.
Woodley? Which Woodley? The one who gave his all on every play and was a superstar in the making? Or the one who got paid, got lazy, got fat, got injured and got gone? Because the second one replaced the first one and the second one could easily be replaced by Moats or (hopefully) "Durpee".
In regards to Hampton, I think you might have missed the part where I said: "Still waiting on a Casey replacement, but McCullers may be the real deal according to Mitchell." If Mitchell says the kid has a chance, I'll take his evaluation over yours until he's proven wrong.
In case you forgot Clark sucked his first year here too. If Mitchell sucks again this year, then they move on from him. It's not like his contract is something they can't get out from under.
Anyway, if you expected them to replace those HOF and near HOF players with exact clones, I guess you will be continuously disappointed. The defense is young. We won't know for sure what we have for a little while. In the short term, I hope they can at least get to average with the infusion of youth. I'm willing to give the youngsters a chance to mature before writing them off ...
Remember, Troy wasn't going to amount to much after his first year either ... I believe it was because of his over-sized head.
...
Remember, Troy wasn't going to amount to much after his first year either ... I believe it was because of his over-sized head.[/QUOTE]
He was short too the only thing that got him his height was his extra large cranium.
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Remember, Troy wasn't going to amount to much after his first year either ... I believe it was because of his over-sized head.
[/QUOTE]He was short too the only thing that got him his height was his extra large cranium.
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In regards to Tuitt, I think you might have missed the part where I said: "The thing is that the defense is young (finally) and none of the guys that they are attempting to replace were right out of the gate who they eventually became." Which of course is a nod to the fact that Tuitt has not reached the level that Smith did when Smith was a veteran.
In regards to Troy and Ike, I think you might have missed the part where I said: "As for Troy and Ike ... Since this will be the first year without them, it's kinda hard to tell whether or not they've been effectively replaced." Oh, btw, if you are expecting someone to come in and "BE" Troy in order to replace the HOF Safety ... well, if I were you, I wouldn't hold your breath for that one.
Woodley? Which Woodley? The one who gave his all on every play and was a superstar in the making? Or the one who got paid, got lazy, got fat, got injured and got gone? Because the second one replaced the first one and the second one could easily be replaced by Moats or (hopefully) "Durpee".
In regards to Hampton, I think you might have missed the part where I said: "Still waiting on a Casey replacement, but McCullers may be the real deal according to Mitchell." If Mitchell says the kid has a chance, I'll take his evaluation over yours until he's proven wrong.
In case you forgot Clark sucked his first year here too. If Mitchell sucks again this year, then they move on from him. It's not like his contract is something they can't get out from under.
Anyway, if you expected them to replace those HOF and near HOF players with exact clones, I guess you will be continuously disappointed. The defense is young. We won't know for sure what we have for a little while. In the short term, I hope they can at least get to average with the infusion of youth. I'm willing to give the youngsters a chance to mature before writing them off ...
Remember, Troy wasn't going to amount to much after his first year either ... I believe it was because of his over-sized head.
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to SteelBuckeye again.
(Maybe Coach can start a new thread on this tomorrow)
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He's an interfering owner. He made Tomlin (who is hated) fire Arians (who was hated) and hire Haley (who was hated at first, and is still only "accepted" grudgingly). He mandated that the run game become more effective (which was good). And well ... He's not Dan or The Chief.
Oh, and we're not him. That sucks too.
He's not as loveable as his grandpa but are you old enough to compare their records? Dan Rooney was and is the guy who turned this franchise around and the test for Art is can he keep it there.
Why yes, yes I am. Besides which, there was a fair amount of SARCASM in my post.