Kovacevic: Brown holdout hypocritical and hollow

[FSF]

What's market value? Calvin is 16 mil. Dez, and Thomas are going to make 12 on their franchise tag. Brown is 6.5 this year and 8.5 the next two. What's market value? 10mil?

Part of the problem with the franchise tag is this: The Cowboys and Broncos are not going to sign either WR to a $12 a year contract; they'll suffer for one year because first off, they are not going to come to terms on a deal that either thinks they are worth. The teams are renting them for a hopeful Super Bowl run this year; both teams are a few years away from cap hell so they are looking short term.

Bryant and Thomas will be in uniforms of other teams in a few years and not making $12 per year.

I'd be more interested in seeing what signed WRs are making -- certainly Calvin Johnson is skewing the median, maybe AJ Green too.

 

[FSF]

You sure about that? You sure Woodley is actually receiving that $$, and that its not just cap hits?

I think SF81 is right. Woodley is still getting paid because of the guaranteed part of his deal.

 

[Litos]

I think SF81 is right. Woodley is still getting paid because of the guaranteed part of his deal.

he was paid inmediately after he reworked his contract, cap-wise is where it affects this year but Woodley collected that paycheck a long time ago

 

[Hobbster]

So is Woodley coming to camp this week? Cause he signed a contract too. So he should be here too. Wait no he isn't cause the Steelers cut him already. If it doesn't go both ways then leverage should be taken advantage of when someone has it. Whether team as in Woodley's case or by the player as in Brown's case now.

Last I checked Woodley still has money on the books, why is that? Oh yeah, signing bonus, I am all for AB holding out as long as he pays back every cent of the signing bonus, in fact think that should have gone into bargaining agreement, as a player you can hold out, but if you do you forfeit the guaranteed part of your contract and must give it back. If you can negotiate back in your new contract, then fine, if not, too bad.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Part of the problem with the franchise tag is this: The Cowboys and Broncos are not going to sign either WR to a $12 a year contract; they'll suffer for one year because first off, they are not going to come to terms on a deal that either thinks they are worth. The teams are renting them for a hopeful Super Bowl run this year; both teams are a few years away from cap hell so they are looking short term.

Bryant and Thomas will be in uniforms of other teams in a few years and not making $12 per year.

I'd be more interested in seeing what signed WRs are making -- certainly Calvin Johnson is skewing the median, maybe AJ Green too.

Ask and you shall receive.

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver

I'll let you look at the numbers and come to your own conclusions w/out skewing it with my banter.

 

[Litos]

Ask and you shall receive.

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver

I'll let you look at the numbers and come to your own conclusions w/out skewing it with my banter.

well yes, maybe Kesler is right and the thing is making guaranteed a bigger part of the contract to keep him happy

 

[TDX27]

Or worse- I could be an NFL team and just tear up the contract all together and not pay you sh*t.

Are you really going to side with the owners on this one? They 'breach' contracts almost every year.

Not siding with anyone in particular other than the Steelers. I want them to win. If AB wants to start this **** now, he will be whining every year until something is done. We don't need that on the team. This is the offseason, Ben and the young WR's need that veteran WR. He obviously doesn't want to do that either. He wants the money. Sure, the Steelers can break the bank on him if they want but you can count on Bell being gone in a year or two - whenever his contract is up. I don't see them paying the 3 of them top 5 money in a few years. If AB wants his money now, they may opt to trade him now and plan to sign Bell in a year. That may be what is best for the team. AB is starting to show he is more about himself than the team. 2 years in to a VERY GOOD contract for him that he signed in a heart beat. I would love for the Steelers to be able to sign our big three on O but I don't see it happening. AB isn't walking what he has been talking since signing his contract.

Heck, to make you happy, all contracts should be totally incentive laden. I would be for that and have mentioned it before. If you keep producing, you get more. If you don't, you won't and you may get cut - just like anyone in the real world. Most of us don't have contracts but you will typically get paid if you perform. If you don't, you won't. AB got paid before his performance was at the level they were paying him. So, why shouldn't he stick out the contract now that he is playing up to the contract and even better? If he becomes a true issue, trade him.

 

[steelerscotty]

Or worse- I could be an NFL team and just tear up the contract all together and not pay you sh*t.

Are you really going to side with the owners on this one? They 'breach' contracts almost every year.

You see there is this thing called the collective bargaining agreement. The players agreed to let owners have this advantage when they signed the last CBA. In no way, shape or form can you label what the owners do as a "breach of contract". If the players dont like this then they should not sign another CBA until the issue of guarnteed contracts is addressed to their satisfaction. Steelers management gave Brown a great contract because they believed in his potential, a potential he had not fulfilled yet at the time. This gamble paid off for BOTH parties and now Brown feels its not enough? Tough titties! If management were to let him hold them hostage then any player who even marginally "out performs" their contract would be tempted to do the same thing. I agree with what others have stated in this thread and the other one: if brown had waited until next year, and approached the subject quietly without his agent blabbing to the press, then there is a good change he might have gotten a new contract with 2 years remaining on his old one. Millionaires bitching about the millions they make will never get any sympathy from me.

 

[Stryker]

Ask and you shall receive.

http://overthecap.com/position/wide-receiver

I'll let you look at the numbers and come to your own conclusions w/out skewing it with my banter.

Wow, now AJ Green is a cat who is SEVERELY UNDERPAID. AB is solidly in the median range for top receivers and those numbers improve next year.

Woodley is not receiving a dime from the steelers this year. The only thing counting against the steelers cap is Woodley's prorated signing bonus that was given to him 3 years ago. Too bad we didn't ask for it back...

 

[steelerscotty]

Wow, now AJ Green is a cat who is SEVERELY UNDERPAID. AB is solidly in the median range for top receivers and those numbers improve next year.

Woodley is not receiving a dime from the steelers this year. The only thing counting against the steelers cap is Woodley's prorated signing bonus that was given to him 3 years ago. Too bad we didn't ask for it back...

That only works if a player retires or if he does something to get banned. Because we cut him by choice, there was no way to go after the money.

 

[freak]

the steelers will never change his salary now !

 

[warriors42]

Or worse- I could be an NFL team and just tear up the contract all together and not pay you sh*t.

Are you really going to side with the owners on this one? They 'breach' contracts almost every year.

in the real world people get fired everyday. if this **** is true about brown **** HIM. let his *** sit out and make nothing. what kind of precedence do you set by giving him a new contract. maybe the ****** should take a look back at how ben handled his ****.

 

[Superman]

he was a 6th round pick who hadn't done very much prior to the FO going to him over the then-proven Wallace with the $42 million contract. He happily signed it, just as any of us broke ******* would. He knew when he signed it that 42 / 6 = 8 and that he would essentially be averaging $8mil per year.

Two years later and he is, for all intents and purposes, looking a gift horse in the mouth.

 

[Tibs]

After having a day to digest and read all the feedback, I'm beginning to think the best way forward is to sell high on AB. They can maximize his value, get as many high draft picks as they can and move on. It pains me to write this, up until now I've had nothing but admiration for the guy. But really, this goes back to the fundamental question of why he and his agent are doing this now? And the answer can only be one thing, they want AB out of town, to be able to sign a new deal with someone else, a la Emmanuel Sanders & Mike Wallace. The young money crew turns out, is all about the money.

 

[Superman]

I dont think it's feasible to trade him and take the ensuing cap hit(s).

 

[Tibs]

I dont think it's feasible to trade him and take the ensuing cap hit(s).

There is always a way, isn't there? Maybe take back a player or two plus draft picks?

 

[TDX27]

If there were a trade, is there any way to reduce his cap hit? I am not a cap guru so I will look to others. Wouldn't his signing bonus still be spread over the next 3 years with no salary hitting the cap? Or, does the entire signing bonus come due when he is traded? They need to make a quick decision here. 9 days until the draft. He will either be traded then or they will draft a WR at #22 and be traded later. My guess is they may be able to get more on draft day from a loser team like the Raiders or others. I'd hate to see him go to the Clowns but they would pay out the ying yang for him.

 

[Tibs]

TDX27 I reckon there are 31 teams that would want to get their grimy hands on AB. I'm not sure what the trade / salary cap ramifications are either, but it's been posted several times it seems next to impossible...but you never know.

 

[TDX27]

I hear ya, Tibs. I really like AB and thought he would be a Steeler for life. I still hope that is possible but the team needs to think about Bell's contract needing looked at in another year or two. They will possibly have a franchise QB cap hit and then try to squeeze a top 5 WR and top 5 RB in there. Something will have to give. I hope they can keep all 3 for the remaining time Ben is on the team. That will be huge but very difficult to do.

 

[mightyguru]

Myself? I'm a little disappointed in AB. Sure he's a great player, but at the time the contract was a bit of a stretch...now, not so much. It evens out and he's being an *******, imho. Go buy another Bentley dood.

 

[Wingman]

SteelBuckeye posted a nice link to this in the other brown Hold out thread. And according to his link the trade scenarior is not ruled out by the cap if draft Picks are involved. I will copy my reply below.

Steel Buckeye great link. If those guys have it figured out correctly in the table they provide
2015 $6,000,000 $3,787,500 $0 $0 $0 $9,787,500 $9,662,500 $125,000
2016 $8,250,000 $3,787,500 $0 $0 $0 $12,037,500 $5,875,000 $6,162,500
2017 $8,710,000 $2,087,500 $0 $0 $0 $10,797,500 $2,087,500 $8,710,000

This is for a trade or a cut showing the salary cap implications. The third column from the right shows what his hit is for this year and the rest of his contract if he honors it. The next column to the right shows his hit if traded and the far right shows cap savings. So in looking at this list it appears the prorated money or dead money. There was a little box that deals with the different trade or cut options by year and before June 1st. So if traded or cut this year or any later year there is in fact a net cap savings.

Draft picks are fairly inexpensive to sign and the steelers would be enough under the cap to sign a second first round pick this year. It does not look like the salary cap will limit them regarding the trade option. The big question regarding the cap would be how his new demands affect it and what kind of a message that sends to the other members of the team. Not saying how good AB is or his worth at this point but do you really want the players demands to be managing your cap as giving in at this point sends the wrong message to the rest of the team. I suspect there are lots of players that feel they are under paid at this point. For example what are we paying Beachum, granted he is not a premier left tackle but he is our left tackle and I would not be surprised if he is not being paid way below starting tackle money for example.

The thing with considering options is just that consider them and decide based on what will be best for the team and not a fan that thinks the world will end if a player is traded. Lots of folks thought the world would end when Wallace left but it kept on spinning just the same.

 

[SteelChip]

The Rooney's don't have to do anything, the whole game is on AB. He's the one that signed that contract, he's the one that agreed to it's parameters and he's the one that could pay dearly for not living up to it.

Even if he does decide to sit out the year, it does not even erase that year from the total and the fines could mount up very fast. I don't see the purpose of a holdout other than a little greed showing through and once the mandatory stuff rolls around...he'll be right there where he belongs if he knows what's best for his future.

 

[Xc944]

how many of these high paid wr's end up getting released only a couple years later and how many of the top paid wr's won the super bowl. after you answer those questions its easy to see you don't pay him top money you trade him or let him sit

 

[south dakota STEEL]

How much is enough? seriously? Just because someone you work for is making billions, doesn't mean you should make that. If you want that, then buy a team or get one HELLUVA signing bonus. He should, and others should, play out what they agrred to. If these morons would invest or save their coin, they may not worry so much about keeping their lifestyle as it is.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

lol c'mon Ron.

Youre basically saying that its own damn fault for being so good.

If AB sucked for these past three years- the Steelers could have cut him, and we all would have been applauding the move. Would you call management hypocritical for cutting Woodley?

No. If a player thinks he will get better, or is getting a low offer, then he should sign for less time so that he can get that big FA money sooner. If he doesn't think he will then he should go for a longer contract with more security. You can't have it both ways.