Jarvis has nothing to do with the sky is falling. As can be seen from the entire time he has been here he has been replaceable and does not seem to bring much to the defense. I would not be shocked to see him gone this year.
Jarvis hurt still
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What he said. JJ is zero impact, and he is a distraction for fans and probably coaches alike. If he isn't dominate, he needs his pink slip this year.
I think he gets a pass this year. as 1's tend to get a longer look. Especially with his play right before the injury. But if he is benched or doesn't win the starting not out of training camp, he will be gone within a year IMO.
Please explain:
1) Anything that Jarvis Jones has done that could be a distraction to fans and coaches.
2) How not being a distraction for fans is a job requirement of an NFL OLB out side of the obvious domestic violence, etc.
I don't see him as a distraction either. He either performs or the coaches sit him.
As far as the fans go most should see it for what it is. A player leaning on bust on the bubble, that the coaches will give every opportunity for him to make it before cutting the cord.
Jarvis has been injured. Are you people blind? Give him this year and if he is still not pulling his weight, then you can label him a bust but not until he has a season to play uninjured. I know we have great fans but this gets ridiculous sometimes. Everyone is a bust if they are not an all pro in their first year or two. That thinking is just plain wrong since the Steelers D has been almost impossible for anyone to crack in their first year or two even if healthy.
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Not every one is a bust if they aren't all pros. The issue is that the Steelers brain trust had Jones in their top 6 players of the entire draft. Some think they had him #1 overall. Dobre talked about it right after the draft and even had a breakdown of their board. They creamed their pants when he ran slow because it gave them a chance to draft him. People are harder on 1st round picks for good reason. Jones needs to prove he can be a starting OLB. Anything less means he was a bad pick.
This. I've said it before and I'll say it until he is either let go or performs. I'd like to see the Steelers hit on ALL their first round picks. It's nothing to celebrate when one of them busts. However, if Jarvis doesn't show significant improvement this year, you have to be prepared to move on. I think they've sent him that message by bringing in guys like Dupree, Chickillo and Lemon along with resigning Moats and Harrison.
Injury is an excuse for a little while. But the bottom line in the NFL, for the Steelers and the workplace in general is "Are you getting the job done." I had to let a guy go last week who I knew could do his job at a high level (because he'd done it before), but he started taking too many sick days, had too many funerals, etc. He was no longer "getting the job done".
I would not call the thoughts on Jarvis celebrating because he failed. Thing is he has not got the job done at a high level. It is understood that he does not need to be an all pro his first year. He has not looked as good as Worilds did when he was here who also was not looking like an all pro either.
Jarvis Jones may have been an attempt at trying a smaller player at one of the outside linebacker positions instead of the transition types they have used in the past. He played a similar role in college so I will give them the it was worth a shot on the try part of it. The difficulties for Jarvis were much better talent at the pro level he had to face, his age as unlike underclassmen he did not have lots of potential for physical growth, he did not have impressive speed to beat his opponents, and he did seem to have some medical issues. At the pro level he has been hurt and might still be a bit. His injury could be the result of his body not being up to the demands put on it at the pro level. Spence and Pouncey were injured early as well but one would consider both of those injuries freak injuries from the way they happened, not injuries that happened in the normal course of events.
I think Jarvis might be on the bubble for a couple of reasons that may not really be something he has much control over. His speed is one, there is only so much one can do to improve speed and his may not be at a high enough level for the position needs. His strength is another, he may have maxed out what his body can deliver no matter how much harder he trains. Guys like Porter and Harrison are rare players who have or had tremendous power as players not all guys are that gifted physically. A good comparison would be Haggans who was ok to good but not near the level of Harrison or Porter. One other issue Jarvis might have problems with is size. No matter how much work he puts in his frame may not be big enough to carry much more weight. These things may not be something that Jarvis can combat or improve on no matter how hard he tries. Sometimes effort can not overcome physical limits and Jarvis may have been put in a situation that he can not win no matter how hard he tries.
One thing that makes me think this may have been a try at something different was the shift in this years draft to picking college defensive ends for outside linebackers again. Both of our choices played at defensive end in college and could either be just from luck of the draft or a real change back in philosophy regarding the position.
Jarvis Jones may have been an attempt at trying a smaller player at one of the outside linebacker positions instead of the transition types they have used in the past. He played a similar role in college so I will give them the it was worth a shot on the try part of it. The difficulties for Jarvis were much better talent at the pro level he had to face, his age as unlike underclassmen he did not have lots of potential for physical growth, he did not have impressive speed to beat his opponents, and he did seem to have some medical issues. At the pro level he has been hurt and might still be a bit. His injury could be the result of his body not being up to the demands put on it at the pro level. Spence and Pouncey were injured early as well but one would consider both of those injuries freak injuries from the way they happened, not injuries that happened in the normal course of events.
I think Jarvis might be on the bubble for a couple of reasons that may not really be something he has much control over. His speed is one, there is only so much one can do to improve speed and his may not be at a high enough level for the position needs. His strength is another, he may have maxed out what his body can deliver no matter how much harder he trains. Guys like Porter and Harrison are rare players who have or had tremendous power as players not all guys are that gifted physically. A good comparison would be Haggans who was ok to good but not near the level of Harrison or Porter. One other issue Jarvis might have problems with is size. No matter how much work he puts in his frame may not be big enough to carry much more weight. These things may not be something that Jarvis can combat or improve on no matter how hard he tries. Sometimes effort can not overcome physical limits and Jarvis may have been put in a situation that he can not win no matter how hard he tries.
One thing that makes me think this may have been a try at something different was the shift in this years draft to picking college defensive ends for outside linebackers again. Both of our choices played at defensive end in college and could either be just from luck of the draft or a real change back in philosophy regarding the position.
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I hear ya and that's what I have been saying but listening to the whiners on here who have been calling him a bust since day 1 is ridiculous and it gets real old. It is extremely rare that we even start a 1st rounder in their 1st year and still rare for them to do much in their first 2 years especially on D and especially when injured. So, yes, this is the year he needs to do something, even as a 1st rounder. It seems we have too many people on here whining and it sounds like a Browns message board and not a Steelers board. I hold our fans to a higher level than Browns fans. Maybe I am wrong.
I don't think they'll cut him because of the cap hit since he's making first round money plus Tombert doesn't like to admit they made a mistake but I can see them not making an offer and letting him walk next year just like Worilds. (Yeah I know Worilds "retired" but they weren't going to offer him a contract anyway.)
The only way I see him not making it this year is if they decide he is not one of the top six olb prospects on the team. Harrison and Moats will be here. Dupree will be here. Behind them are three spots and Chick may have more to offer than Jones as well as a couple of guys from our practice squad. They may be able to get under the cap with the cut and decide that if Jones is not in the long term plans why keep him, there is also the possibility of a trade to get rid of him with another team that might want to give him a shot particularly when a draft pick is what is traded.
Granted you may be right, and the reasons you listed maybe the ones in play but failing to admit a mistake is actually making two mistakes and hopefully that changes.
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I labeled him a bust before the draft. I was in the "anyone but Jarvis" camp and I'm still there.
What was even more irritating - Eric Reid goes one pick later. Not that Reid is a HOF player or anything, but he is a top 10 player at his position in his second year. That is what I expect from a first round pick.
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I can't speak for anyone else. But I never liked the pick. There are just as many posters who love every single pick and think there are HOFs being drafted every year. There are extremes on both sides.
I disagree that most defensive 1st round picks take 3 years. I can't think of a single good defensive player drafted in the first round by the Steelers that wasn't proving it on the field by year 2. Hood was starting his 1st year and was never a 3-4 DE. Troy was very good his 2nd year. Heyward played all 16 games his 2nd year and was the #1 backup. Most wanted to sit Hood and play Heyward. Timmons started 2 games his 2nd year but he was hurt his rookie season. He was also transitioning from playing OLB to ILB. He played well enough his 2nd season that he was inserted into the starting lineup his 3rd season.
This kind of goes back to the DL never played rookies or young guys argument. It was always a myth IMHO. He played guys when they were ready. He wasn't going to play an inferior guy just for the hell of it. But most draft picks that turned out good (and some like Hood who didn't) played enough early to find out.
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Jarvis did start his second year and was playing pretty well till he got hurt. Still not sure why so many people seem to be rooting against him-I would love to see him have a breakout season.
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I'm not rooting against anyone. I'm pointing out that every good #1 pick on the defense started showing something by year 2. Jones was playing "pretty well" according to you. Is that good enough? Jones played a ton his rookie season. There should be no excuses this year unless he gets hurt again. He played OLB in a 3-4 in college. He will be 26 years old in a few months. Hell Timmons is only 3 years older. He needs to show something this year. I hope he does. The defense really needs him.
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I have standards for Jarvis. He was brought in to get to the QB. Now get to the damn QB.
6-7 sacks: Eh, that is what I would expect from a 1st round 1 year 21-22yo pass rusher with NFL skills. But it is not useless for a 26yo and certainly NFL material.
8-10 sacks: Good season and what I expect from our OLBs.
11-14 sacks: I formally apologize to Jarvis.
6-7 sacks: Eh, that is what I would expect from a 1st round 1 year 21-22yo pass rusher with NFL skills. But it is not useless for a 26yo and certainly NFL material.
8-10 sacks: Good season and what I expect from our OLBs.
11-14 sacks: I formally apologize to Jarvis.
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Agree with you, I want him to be an important participer on run D.
I will add one other thing with regard to rookies not playing on Lebeau's defense, they also had to be better than what was in front of them and I think that is the biggest reason they did not start. If you look way back to the 70s super bowl teams there were lots of rookies that got cut not because they were bad picks but because they could not beat out the guys already on the team. Sometimes talent trumps hype. It is also quite possible that the recent draft picks were not better than what was here even though what was here in many cases was not all that great anyway.
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I agree with that. Rookies rarely start on any team unless the team sucks and they have nobody in front of them. People don't realize that it isn't just a DL thing. The pats** won the SB with one rookie starting on the entire team. And that was a center. Most good teams don't just throw rookies into the mix. When the Seachickens won the SB they had 1 rookie starting. He was their RT. They had zero on defense. It isn't unusual for teams not to throw rookies onto the field unless they absolutely have too. It isn't just a Steeler thing or a DL thing.
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It is obvious to a lot of people he is not a first round talent nor a very good player. You don't have to be a genius to see poor #1 picks who would never be good players, see Mark Malone,Troy Edwards, Aaron Jones, Tom Ricketts etc . Rooting for or against them does not change their ;lack of talent or physical traits to be good NFL players, small, slow and weak players like Jones have never dominated at O:B in the NFL, hoping can't change that or erase his faults.
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This is make it or break it year for Uncle Jarvis. If he flops this year or gets injured early we could be picking another OLB next spring in the first round. I hope to hell he has his breakout year and pops 10-12 sacks. That would be beyond any of our expectations for him and would go a long way in helping solidify this defense. Both he and Shazier need to be major contributors this year.
The team might already think they have his replacement on the team. There are some guys from the practice squad they like and they picked two guys this year to develop. Moates and silverback maybe the stop gaps while these new guys get worked into the lineup.
I have heard things from labs and prisuta regarding improvements in jarvis. I have not yet seen anything that makes me think he will break out and be a solid player yet. The guy from the bird cage liner that shall not be named thought he was a bust last year. The coaches are still talking favorably about jarvis like there is talent or something there.
I will list what I think are three possible reasons for this.
1. There is talent there and he has been having a tough time putting it all together, coupled with the injuries that is the reason for slow development and we will see something this year.
2. They are now at the point of thinking this guy is not going to work out and they are looking to see if they can not find a team that will trade for him maybe a third rounder at this point, which would be a hell of a lot more than letting him walk by being cut.
3. Vanity is involved like so many have said and the powers that be can not admit the blew a first round pick so bad, the only thing close to this is Archer in the third or Landry Jones whenever he was taken.
I am thinking it is likely 1 or 2 more so than 3. If you continue along the lines hoping to hide a flop on the team you are way beyond making a dumbass pick. Failing to admit it makes you a dumbass squared. I am thinking that unless the Jarvis injury keeps him off the field and on the IR ready to return spot he will either be much improved as a player or he will be gone hopefully through a trade.
I will list what I think are three possible reasons for this.
1. There is talent there and he has been having a tough time putting it all together, coupled with the injuries that is the reason for slow development and we will see something this year.
2. They are now at the point of thinking this guy is not going to work out and they are looking to see if they can not find a team that will trade for him maybe a third rounder at this point, which would be a hell of a lot more than letting him walk by being cut.
3. Vanity is involved like so many have said and the powers that be can not admit the blew a first round pick so bad, the only thing close to this is Archer in the third or Landry Jones whenever he was taken.
I am thinking it is likely 1 or 2 more so than 3. If you continue along the lines hoping to hide a flop on the team you are way beyond making a dumbass pick. Failing to admit it makes you a dumbass squared. I am thinking that unless the Jarvis injury keeps him off the field and on the IR ready to return spot he will either be much improved as a player or he will be gone hopefully through a trade.