jabrill peppers tests positive for dilute sample

[awboatguy]

I think there's a good reason that there's such a thing as a "dilute sample".

When I was in high school my friend used to insist on stopping at a convenience store to buy Reese's cups before going home so he could mask the smell of alchohol on his breath from his mom. I was always like "Dude, don't you think she's suspicious as to why you always come home stinking like peanut butter?

There is a possibility that something nefarious is going on, and there is a possibility that he was just over hydrated. Sometimes you just really want a Reese's cup or two. I just don't think I'm ready to through him out with the bath water. Water! Get it?!


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[deljzc]

I like Peppers very much as a prospect. I have him very high on my board since I watched his film and I'm not backing off that. If we get him in the draft I would be very happy.

 

[AggieSteel]

I like Peppers very much as a prospect. I have him very high on my board since I watched his film and I'm not backing off that. If we get him in the draft I would be very happy.

As critical as I've been of him, I *could* be happy if we draft Peppers under the following conditions:
1) It's NOT in the first round
2) The first round pick was a starting level CB or OLB
3) If Peppers is 2nd round, then 3rd round is a starter at the other position from point 2

 

[Drink IRON City]

As critical as I've been of him, I *could* be happy if we draft Peppers under the following conditions:
1) It's NOT in the first round
2) The first round pick was a starting level CB or OLB
3) If Peppers is 2nd round, then 3rd round is a starter at the other position from point 2

I like this scenario but also not sure we will get the two starters in the positions you've stated. I'll accept we get two starters regardless as that would be an above average draft for Tombert and company. Maybe we could bring the "Bruce" in for later round consultation............




Salute the nation

 

[MTC]

I like Peppers very much as a prospect. I have him very high on my board since I watched his film and I'm not backing off that. If we get him in the draft I would be very happy.

Great size and potential. Not hating on the guy.
I think the Steelers training staff could keep an eye on his hydration I suppose

 

[Litos]

Thanks for the Like steelerfan81, tough crowd today

 

[slashsteel]

I like Peppers very much as a prospect. I have him very high on my board since I watched his film and I'm not backing off that. If we get him in the draft I would be very happy.

I get some people think he has a high ceiling ,for me it makes no sense to double down at SS. And that is where I see him. And what would be the cost? losing out on the pass rusher we need or the cover corner on the outside. I do not see him as a ILBer so there isn't even that.

Not so much as a not like for me but a doesn't fit.

 

[TMC]

As critical as I've been of him, I *could* be happy if we draft Peppers under the following conditions:
1) It's NOT in the first round
2) The first round pick was a starting level CB or OLB
3) If Peppers is 2nd round, then 3rd round is a starter at the other position from point 2

The one thing that I have been going back and forth on with Peppers is simply, how can I use him? There is a lot to like about him. He is a plus run defender. Michigan used him outside the tackle to force runners to turn it up because if teams tried to run outside on Peppers, he put guys on the ground and he usually did it behind the line of scrimmage. You don't screen to his side because WRs cannot block him. Again, he puts guys on the ground. He can bump and run with some guys, gets a little grabby and touchy on the top of routes when guys are breaking on him and that might draw some flags, but he might be able to clean it up. Excellent in zone coverage because he clicks and closes on things so well. When he is close to the line, down in that box, he reads things so quickly. Really good blitzer. Really good, flashes through creases and arrives with a thud. But, again, where he is weak, if he is in man and receivers get him turned with his back to the QB, he doesn't read WRs well and get his head around, so he gets beaten a lot when doing it. If you play him deep in Cover-2, he doesn't seem as instinctual, takes false steps forward and gives up plays over his head. So, we just drafted Davis who really settled into the SS spot. We played him a lot as a deep end safety, even though he was a strong. If you draft Peppers, not so sure you can do that. If you used him to replace Williams on passing downs and teams ran, when he is between the tackles, he doesn't see blockers like he does on the outside and some interior guys tend to catch him (guards/TEs) and he doesn't fare so well. I've seen too many plays where they ear hole him and get him off his feet inside. So, doesn't help as a moneybacker in those situations, maybe that develops, maybe not. So, I've been thinking about how you use him and I think you need to see him go to a team like Miami who has Reshad Jones. Jones is the deep safety, often handles single high coverage. In fact, Miami plays a lot of Cover-1, Cover-3, and Cover-6, so the only deep end responsibilities Peppers would have for them would be 1/3rd the field when they went Cover-6, otherwise, he would have zone under around the flat, which really fits his skill set. You have him outside the tackle, mostly zone so he is reading, plus run defender in those situations and potentially jumping routes. That is putting him in the best position to be an elite player, maximizing his skill set.

But, that isn't what we do. It isn't what Tomlin/Butler use. If LeBeau were still here, maybe, because they did things like that more when Polamalu was here...of course, Troy covered a lot of warts too. And, we still got our ***** kicked by New England, so there is that. Dunno, if we want to continue doing what we do and handle most of the teams well, I can see it. If we want a chance at handling teams like New England/Green Bay/Atlanta better, have to evolve our pass coverage into more man schemes.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Here is Joe Thomas take

Diamond Images / Getty
Joe Thomas questions NFL's drug testing after Peppers' diluted sample
Mitch Sanderson Apr 24, 2017 9:18 PM
Jabrill Peppers' reportedly diluted drug sample from the combine will put him in the NFL's drug program to start his career, and Joe Thomas isn't buying it.

The Michigan product apparently drank too much water in an attempt to avoid dehydration and cramps before participating in the combine, but his sample was too diluted for the league's liking.

Thomas says that NFL players are not subjected to the same set of rules and questions why prospects are treated differently.

Tester should be able to see it's dilute right when he receives sample and can then request more samples until it's not dilute #flawedsystem https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/856571961010511877 …
Follow
Joe Thomas ✔ @joethomas73
No player should ever have a "failed test" for a dilute sample. Especially at the combine where players frequently chug water to gain weight
2:45 PM - 24 Apr 2017
348 348 Retweets

Or you're chugging water to hydrate for a day of grueling physical testing. Lack of hydration leads to a significant decrease in performance https://twitter.com/elfnotdawg/status/856580707560419328 …
2:54 PM - 24 Apr 2017
73 73 Retweets 346 346 likes


Why should the combine b different? Wouldn't NFL want a test where they could c the results of what you're taking instead of "inconclusive"?

Why should the combine b different? Wouldn't NFL want a test where they could c the results of what you're taking instead of "inconclusive"?
8:03 PM - 24 Apr 2017

Several hours after initially stating his first Twitter rant, the Cleveland Browns tackle posed a question to his NFL brethren to make sure he wasn't the only one receiving this treatment when testing for drugs.


Retired 14-year veteran kicker Jay Feely confirmed that was the process he was a part of as well.

I did. Waited around for a couple hrs until I could go again https://twitter.com/joethomas73/status/856659264110292992 …
8:04 PM - 24 Apr 2017

 

[TMC]

So, what Thomas is stating is, in the NFL, if your test is diluted, they make you stay there until they get a good sample. He is asking if that is the case at the combine or if their "tight" schedule means you get one shot. I don't know, guessing that answer would have to come from the NFL or players who had a diluted sample. But, you would think that people could watch him workout and they have them come back in after the workout and give another sample. That should not be diluted.

And, let me add this, Emmanuel Sanders said he drank a gallon and a half of water the morning before the combine weigh in because he was worried he would be too light (weight). That is adding about 10 pounds. The afternoon after the weigh in, he takes his drug screen. Sanders passed his test. So, if what Sanders said is true, how much water/liquid would a bigger player like Peppers have to drink to get a diluted sample? It is just an odd situation with him and Rueben Foster.

 

[deljzc]

I get some people think he has a high ceiling ,for me it makes no sense to double down at SS. And that is where I see him. And what would be the cost? losing out on the pass rusher we need or the cover corner on the outside. I do not see him as a ILBer so there isn't even that.

Not so much as a not like for me but a doesn't fit.

Well, there is a couple issues here. First, I don't want to lock anyone into one position. Defenses are morphing more and more into variety and matchups, not just put guys in a simple 4-3 look with a cover-2 shell behind them.

I don't think Sean Davis is just a strong safety. I actually still like him as a zone corner but he has settled very well into a safety roll. But he played well downfield on many plays last year in cover-2 and is more just a "safety" than defined by "strong" or "free".

I also don't 100% agree with TMC's analysis that Peppers is completely useless deep. The problem with his film is he just rarely (if ever) played there. I had a hard time finding one play where he played cover-2 deep so I don't really know how he would do until you get him into camp.

I also really like the idea of Peppers as a roving LB/SS hybrid. Su'a Cravens, Mark Barron and Shaq Thompson are all players kind of defining the SS/LB hybrid. I think Peppers is a better prospect for that roll than all of them.

I guess I'm more sold on Peppers versatility than most. When I watch the film, he just looks and plays like a football player and I can find spots for that on any defense. His athleticism just jumps off the tape. Sometimes that wins out over trying to fit his skill set into a "box".

 

[Litos]

Del I agree that with time (one or two years) he could become a very good SS because he lacks playing time as a deep S but is that worth a 1st round? When there are players available that also have high ceiling and can help this very season? ?

 

[deljzc]

Del I agree that with time (one or two years) he could become a very good SS because he lacks playing time as a deep S but is that worth a 1st round? When there are players available that also have high ceiling and can help this very season? ?

To me, Peppers is clearly a 1st round talent. I've had him in my top-15 all draft season. Again, I put in his tape and saw 1st round almost right away. He was everywhere. So no, I don't think I worry too much about what ifs vs. someone else. There is risk in every selection. No one we pick at #30 is really an "instant starter" as much as we want to tell ourselves differently. Not McKinley, Not Watt, Not Reddick, Not Awuzie, Not any CB for that matter.

Obviously the failed drug test is concerning. I'm not really talking about that. Just on talent and tape, getting Peppers at #30 to me would be very good value so I'm going to be okay with it because I have to assume the Steelers did some background checks and the interview(s) went well.

We talked about this before I went on vacation last week. The Steelers would really have to do something stupid in order to **** up pick #30. There are a LOT of players I have mentally accepted headed into Thursday. So I'm just hoping it all works out.

 

[TMC]

I also don't 100% agree with TMC's analysis that Peppers is completely useless deep. The problem with his film is he just rarely (if ever) played there. I had a hard time finding one play where he played cover-2 deep so I don't really know how he would do until you get him into camp.

Well, you really have to dig to find snaps where he plays deep, usually forced into it by formation changes where he changes assignments. It happened more in 2015, when they used him as a corner and safety or would put him in situations where he was defending a single player. IIRC, Indiana, Ohio State, and Penn State all got him in deep coverage situations, Minnesota did as well. When it happened, most of them went straight at him.

But, I completely agree the snaps are limited. So, why would I think he couldn't do it? Why would I think he could? I don't instantly think every RB can catch a pass in the slot. Have to see it before I draft him to do it. I would not assume every corner can play man or zone until I see it. I have to see a QB throw the deep out before I just think he can do it and should bring him into camp, especially since it comes with the price tag of a first round. I used to have a draft book written by a former scout and one of the rules in it was, do not draft a player that is going to be making a position change in the first two rounds. In essence, if they have not shown it on film, don't spend that high end pick on a guy you don't know can do the job.

Is Peppers a football player? Damn right he is. In fact, he might be a better offensive weapon than he is a defensive one. Is he a deep safety? Can he play it? In the film I've watched, it has been a big area of weakness. The fact that you cannot find film tells how often Michigan kept him out that role.

 

[FordFairLane]

Peppers in the right situation would be an awesome football player. But to me he's an in the box SS or even perhaps a tampa 2 MLB where he plays zone middle and should always have help over the top. The thing is he's a football player and it's hard not to like his motor and drive. I just am not sure where he plays for us but in a different defense on a different team I could see him making some pro bowls. If we want an in the box safety I personally feel Josh Jones would fit better with the defense than Peppers. I personally would love if Xavier Woods was our pick with one of our third round picks. I feel he and Davis can both play high or low safety as they can cover, blitz, and run support. It would be nice to not have a weak link at safety and be able to scheme without worry who might end up having to cover over top.

 

[deljzc]

I kind of feel if we draft Peppers he would be an ILB for us and maybe we would be calling it a 3-3-5 (like we've discussed before).

Heyward - Hargrave - Tuitt
Dupree - Shazier - Peppers - Harrison/Rookie/Moates
Burns - Mitchell - Davis - Cockrell/Rookie/FA

On passing downs you can pull Hargrave off and add Gay/Golson
On heavy run defense, you can pull Peppers off and plug in Vince Williams.

To me, the way Dupree and Harrison hold the point vs. run defense and how big/strong/good our front-3 are allow us to go smaller than usual with our inside linebackers. The game is shifting that way anyhow because no one runs behind a 2-back, I-formation setup anymore. Not sure you need the big thumper linebacker to take out the FB and let the smaller LB and safeties get the tackles like you did in the past.

 

[TMC]

I kind of feel if we draft Peppers he would be an ILB for us and maybe we would be calling it a 3-3-5 (like we've discussed before).

Heyward - Hargrave - Tuitt
Dupree - Shazier - Peppers - Harrison/Rookie/Moates
Burns - Mitchell - Davis - Cockrell/Rookie/FA

On passing downs you can pull Hargrave off and add Gay/Golson
On heavy run defense, you can pull Peppers off and plug in Vince Williams.

To me, the way Dupree and Harrison hold the point vs. run defense and how big/strong/good our front-3 are allow us to go smaller than usual with our inside linebackers. The game is shifting that way anyhow because no one runs behind a 2-back, I-formation setup anymore. Not sure you need the big thumper linebacker to take out the FB and let the smaller LB and safeties get the tackles like you did in the past.

Those were my exact thoughts, posed the same scenario when I was talking about it with Dobre, and then he pointed out how Peppers fares when blockers slip onto him in the instances where he is in the box, how they often put him on the ground and he isn't even enough of a road block to slow them down. He also pointed out how, in our current scheme, when Robert Golden was used in a similar situation and teams recognized what they were doing with Golden as a $backer, they took him down the field with the TEs, put his back to the QB, and exploited the matchup. Since Peppers really struggles with his back to the QB, Dobre posed the simple question, how is that better than what we have now? If our areas of weakness would be coverage over bigger TEs (which is why you employ the moneybacker or coverage ILB), how would Peppers help in that area if he truly struggles with his back to the QB? He might help in zone because I think he is better than Golden in zone, but when you face teams like New England, Atlanta, and Green Bay, they will understand that limitation and exploit just like happened with Golden.

I really could not argue against it. He was right and it changed my perspective on how we should move forward.

 

[Tibs]

TMC, just for the record I believe Peppers is 5x the player Golden is, as far as your comparison.

 

[TMC]

TMC, just for the record I believe Peppers is 5x the player Golden is, as far as your comparison.

I'm not comparing the two as complete players. But, Dobre actually pointed out specific film against the Pats, specific plays, where the Steelers walked Golden down on Gronk (regular season game). The first time it happened, Brady did not recognize the scheme on 3rd down and they got off the field. The second time, he recognized the matchup, made adjustments from the first time he saw it, Gronk went down the seam, over the top for an easy TD. That is the key, if Brady recognizes the weakness, he will exploit it. As soon as you walk your $backer down on Gronk, he better be able to cover and make plays on the ball with his back to the QB. Peppers doesn't in college, doubt he will make a massive jump in the pros.

Again, really don't want to belabor the point. Film doesn't lie. Check the Minnesota game (2015), Penn State (2015), Colorado (2016) and tell me how he fared when he had his back to the QB or ended up in deep coverage. He was beaten easily and badly. But, read what you want, believe what you want. No skin off my back.

 

[TMC]

In the video, look at these time stamps:
2:05
2:33
3:12
4:48 - it is a defensive switch due to motion, he has the deep middle.
6:41 is his only collegiate INT

Just too many plays where he fails to get his head around, and that isn't even half of misplayed deep balls I've seen with him.

 

[Steeltime]

Peppers displays the one trait that irritates, and infuriates, and inculcates, and irks me more than any other for a DB - the inability to FIND THE BALL WHEN IT IS IN THE AIR.

God, I cannot tell you how thrilled I was to see Burns turn and find the ball and DEFEND THE FREAKING PASS last year. A DB who cannot turn and find the ball and defend the pass will be limited to grabbing and pulling the receiver.

Yeah, that doesn't work. Pass on DB's who are unable to turn and find the ball. It's basically like drafting an OF'er who simply cannot track and fly ball, and picks up every freaking flyball on the 1st hop.

 

[TMC]

Peppers displays the one trait that irritates, and infuriates, and inculcates, and irks me more than any other for a DB - the inability to FIND THE BALL WHEN IT IS IN THE AIR.

God, I cannot tell you how thrilled I was to see Burns turn and find the ball and DEFEND THE FREAKING PASS last year. A DB who cannot turn and find the ball and defend the pass will be limited to grabbing and pulling the receiver.

Yeah, that doesn't work. Pass on DB's who are unable to turn and find the ball. It's basically like drafting an OF'er who simply cannot track and fly ball, and picks up every freaking flyball on the 1st hop.

Well, I don't want to make it sound like I don't like Peppers, and that is what is happening here. I like the guy. I like his attitude and his approach to the game. He plays fearless. But, I think he needs to be in a system with a great FS, a guy with range that can play the deep end to allow him to roam around, be a force against the run, and provide some underneath coverage, preferably zone, where he can read, react, and cut things down. I think that gives him the best chance to succeed. We did that with Polamalu, but we also asked Polamalu to play some deep coverage at times (in fact, we asked Troy to do it all at some point). We asked Troy to man up on TEs down the field. He was just that good in all phases. Peppers has holes in some of those areas. I hate the line of thought "I haven't seen him do it, so no reason to think he cannot". There is absolutely no reason to think he can either. In fact, more often than not, as you move up in levels, it gets vastly more difficult to translate skills you CAN do, much less add skills you have not done. If you look at the past failures, Jarvis Jones lacked the physical traits, no need to think he cannot add strength. Dri Archer did not return punts, no need to think he cannot. Sammie Coates struggled with concentration drops, no need to think he cannot improve there. Some guys, like Bell, Brown, Shazier, they hear they have a weakness, and they work tirelessly to correct it and they are so talented and driven, they do it. But, the vast majority either don't grind like that or don't have the ability to overcome that fatal flaw. And, it truly is the majority.

So, that has become a big flag for me. I need to see guys do it more now. Don't see it on film with him, won't just expect him to get it. But, I still think you can use what he does well and he could be a helluva player. Hey, I did not want Anthony Barr as an OLB for us because I did not think he could handle the point of attack, but he plays OLB in a 4-3 in Minnesota and is doing well. Fit plays a huge part. I don't think Peppers really fits what Butler is trying to do and I hope they don't draft him and start changing the vision for one guy.

 

[ZACKB]

Was Peppers the team's primary selection had he been there in the first round?

Gerry Dulac

He was the primary target