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Its gonna be Vander Esch

First- I think LVE is going to be more of a project than most realize. Do people really expect this guy with one year of production against the likes of Fresno State and Nevada, to step in contribute immediately?!?

Second- The first round selection has historically been someone that was sort of a surprise to most fans/analysts. Even going back to Shazier. Which is why I dont think we will draft either Evans or LVE.
 
Bigappleyinzer said:
First- I think LVE is going to be more of a project than most realize. Do people really expect this guy with one year of production against the likes of Fresno State and Nevada, to step in contribute immediately?!?

Second- The first round selection has historically been someone that was sort of a surprise to most fans/analysts. Even going back to Shazier. Which is why I dont think we will draft either Evans or LVE.
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Very valid points. Though I would say that if you back up the tape it might not be the guys the pundits or fans picked but it was certainly someone they showed interest in during the process. I dont think he is a plug and play starter. That is what Bostic provides in the short term. If they dont believe LVE would be an instant insert into sub packages as a coverage blitzer than no. I think you go the safer route. I just think he may he the upgrade in coverage/blitz now and a starter in year two when he adds strength.
 
There are a few positions in small schools, that can still start immediately on the pro level. G, RB, ILB, DL. Those positions get a ton of reps, and if you're in a small school, you are getting all of those reps if you are NFL caliber. Those positions need the least amount of NFL seasoning. There are more nuanced positions outside of the ones I mentioned, where the players would need to learn more to contribute immediately.

Conversely, we don't have a single ILB than can do what LVE does on our roster. He would start.
 
Cope said:
There are a few positions in small schools, that can still start immediately on the pro level. G, RB, ILB, DL. Those positions get a ton of reps, and if you're in a small school, you are getting all of those reps if you are NFL caliber. Those positions need the least amount of NFL seasoning. There are more nuanced positions outside of the ones I mentioned, where the players would need to learn more to contribute immediately.

Conversely, we don't have a single ILB than can do what LVE does on our roster. He would start.
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I would disagree about ILB being able to contribute right away. In fact, there has really only been one ILB rookie in the past 5 years to contribute immediately and that was Deion Jones- Who was a two-year starter at an SEC school (LSU).

Just think about it- The best team LVE played against (Oregon) will not have anyone drafted before the 3rd/4th round. He simply does not have the experience playing against upper echelon talent, and a good ILB requires a blend of speed/smarts/experience. You think he can just 'turn it on' in less than 6 months?
 
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http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...nder-esch-measured-2018-nfl-scouting-combine/

I am adding this link that I posted in another thread here too. LVE is the real deal I believe, but also agree that he'll be gone before 28. Depot also mentioned in another article or maybe their podcast about how Sparq + TomBert pro day attendances + dinners = your pool of potential R1 picks. Those indicators are apparently more meaningful than pre draft visits. Interesting to see what that pool of players will look like on draft day.
 
Cope said:
There are a few positions in small schools, that can still start immediately on the pro level. G, RB, ILB, DL. Those positions get a ton of reps, and if you're in a small school, you are getting all of those reps if you are NFL caliber. Those positions need the least amount of NFL seasoning. There are more nuanced positions outside of the ones I mentioned, where the players would need to learn more to contribute immediately.

Conversely, we don't have a single ILB than can do what LVE does on our roster. He would start.
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I would disagree on ILB, at least the Mack position,. When you have some incredible athleticism, it might be true, if your athleticism can help you compensate for a bad decision.
 
ark steel said:
I would disagree on ILB, at least the Mack position,. When you have some incredible athleticism, it might be true, if your athleticism can help you compensate for a bad decision.
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I mean, Shazier was a much better athlete than any these ILB's, and it still took him a year or two to settle into the position.
 
He wouldnt start. Barring an injury whoever they draft is not starting. The starting position for every spot is locked. So its really who could help now with a big upside.
 
Serious question, not trying to be obtuse.

Why do we insist on running such a difficult defensive system to acquire parts for? It's not like we are just freaking amazing on defense either. Other teams just keep churning in backup pieces you can get pretty cheap, such as a Chris Long for 3M dollars. We have to draft and develop these rush linebackers that have to be drafted in the first round now. The capital required in getting the defense to even an acceptable level just seems so extreme.

TL:DR why can't we just run a 4/3 cover 2 that we can acquire parts easily for instead of being so precious and exotic.
 
I believe that was the case under LeBeau. Now, we’re looking for more interchangeable pieces who could play all 4 LB positions. On the DL, Tuitt or Heyward can also sneak in at NG. I do like the way it can, at least in theory, provide some confusion for the offense, but I’d be happy with a big fire hydrant in the center of the line that would free up the ILBs. Maybe Gravedigger can be that this season. If so, a lot of our problems vs the run are solved. If not, we’re in for another season of runs up the gut for long gains.
 
SteveA said:
No..........Even Tomlin would never run a camp with that mindset.....
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I think there is a very good argument to be made that if Bell holds out into the regular season that there would be value drafting RB. He would step in for the first however many games and then you just let Bell walk next year and you have your guy. But realistically after that who would be unseated by a draft pick? If Payne fell, sure. He is not falling to 1.28. Locked at Corner, locked at Safety, Locked at Dline. Locked at OLB with a capable backup, Starters at ILB (just no situational subpackage pass defender). Offense all Lineman locked with two backups. Recievers, XYZ locked. TE. OK maybe. But they have three guys and two that could start. One that could be good if he wasn't brittle. QB locked. In my opinion its gonna go one of these three ways: ILB with pass defending abilities, Running back because of the Bell situation, or they really are high on Mason Rudolph. If LVE isn't drafted, I believe its him. If he is drafted by someone else. What can you do. Some of you might be happy that night but less happy by November.
 
SteelerSask said:
So your concern is low sample, low competition. I really like the way the dude moves. He seems to have a real nose for the ball. I think it would be real dangerous throwing it in Watts flat or his middle late. Tall long armed guys who can go up and get it. Plus in the tape I watched he seemed to sift through the junk and find the ball carrier.
When he gets there he has the frame to get a fit and take the guy down. He doesnt need to knife his legs out. And with his frame he just needs to add strength. Not bulk that will slow him down.
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The junk he was sifting through was pretty low level competition if big Apple is correct. He gonna be able to duplicate that against nfl level players?
 
I think that any back that falls to 1.28 is not necessarily better than someone we can get in the second round or by trading up in the third round
 
ark steel said:
The junk he was sifting through was pretty low level competition if big Apple is correct. He gonna be able to duplicate that against nfl level players?
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I dont think there is a guy at 28 without questions. Lets not forget this kid played 8 man from a very small town. He wasnt going to Ohio State no matter what.
 
I think the Steelers either go LB'er or DL. Since adding Burnett at Safety that fills a need. Bostic on the inside is a good pickup but he's not a splash type LB'er like Shazier.

I'd be perfectly ok with Vander Esch in the first round....I like his potential and I think he has a high ceiling.
 
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swal75 said:
Serious question, not trying to be obtuse.

Why do we insist on running such a difficult defensive system to acquire parts for? It's not like we are just freaking amazing on defense either. Other teams just keep churning in backup pieces you can get pretty cheap, such as a Chris Long for 3M dollars. We have to draft and develop these rush linebackers that have to be drafted in the first round now. The capital required in getting the defense to even an acceptable level just seems so extreme.

TL:DR why can't we just run a 4/3 cover 2 that we can acquire parts easily for instead of being so precious and exotic.
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I think with Butler, the D has gotten less difficult. Otherwise we wouldn't have 4 rookies placed as starters in the past 2 years.
 
Cope said:
I think with Butler, the D has gotten less difficult. Otherwise we wouldn't have 4 rookies placed as starters in the past 2 years.
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We also do not have good vets in front of them.
 
One could argue Burnett will only play SS, and Davis at FS is a unknown. Steelers would be wise to draft a FS within the first two rounds.And I wouldn't lock a rookie out from winning a start somewhere within the season.
 
Litos said:
I still like Reid in the 1st
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I could live with that. I like Reid, a lot. His quality of play against good QB's (Rosen, Darnold), his premier physical skills, his ball skills, and the fact that he attended Stanford (intelligent guy) signal that he has what the Steelers need in a SS. But for me, if LVE is there, take him. Guys that big and with decent speed just are not available at the later picks.
 
I say this only as a precautionary reminder. Not that I think LVE will end up as this guy did. However, every year folks fall in love with "measurables"; Height, Weight, Speed. Many times we forget about production, experience and level of competition. So, LVE's one year of starting in the Mountain West Conference scares me.
Anyway, the precaution: Mike Mamula
 
Chicoman said:
I think the Steelers either go LB'er or DL. Since adding Burnett at Safety that fills a need. Bostic on the inside is a good pickup but he's not a splash type LB'er like Shazier.

I'd be perfectly ok with Vander Esch in the first round....I like his potential and I think he has a high ceiling.
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Yeah; me too
 
I hope we trade down. This draft is a real wash after about #15. People from then through to #45 or so are pretty similar talent wise IMO.
 
Slaine said:
I hope we trade down. This draft is a real wash after about #15. People from then through to #45 or so are pretty similar talent wise IMO.
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I hear 'ya, Slaine, but here's what happens. Teams see guys and say, "Wow, those other teams don't see what this guy has to offer." Those teams then fall in love with players and believe that they have value above-and-beyond what the charts say.

I think the Steelers felt that way about Troy (rightfully so), and about Jarvis (yeah, not so much). So if the Steelers feel that way about Reid or Vander Esch or whoever, they will be willing to spend resources to get their guy.
 
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