Is our defense good enough to win a super bowl?

[fogdoctor]

Our D has a chance to he historically bad. Seriously, not even kidding. At some point in the 80s Baltimore has a team that gave up 500pts in a season. I'm not sure that will happen because we can shorten the game with Bell and play keep-away with our excellent offense - but, it is going to be BAD. Real bad.

Unless we nab some kind of lightning in a bottle level draft pick - get your blood pressure prescriptions updated.

 

[oicu8ad]

Really guys? I really don't see us being that bad.

Kevin Butler will not change things that much. He will hopefully inject some new wrinkles into the defense, use more blitzing, and I PRAY, get rid of the 10 yard cushion. That said, the D Coordinator change should not be an issue.

We should be healthier at key positions, with a bit more experience from Shazier, Tuitt, Jones. The arrow is pointing UP I think, obviously.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

New England just won the ship last year allowing 344 yards to our 353. 9 damn yards, my heavens!! The defense is far from an abomination- its just very average right now.

Did that Hanratty just say that losing Lebeau meant losing the best DC in history? Well you are kinda right- history. But this aint 2000, and teams are no longer 'surprised' by a zone blitz. His departure is a marginal headwind, at worst.

 

[Turf Hero]

Being Colbert and Tomlin are neither under a long term contract (2016? w/out looking it up) is telling. I love and respect the hell out of Lebeau, but I think a change was over due. I like to think Lebeau was forced out because Tomlin felt he couldn't demand changes be made on D. Those changes may have been in game adjustments, or draft picks not playing until 3 or 4 years in. The latter can be related to too much faith and love for aging vets. This year will prove if those issues were on Lebeau or not. I think they were and I hope to see some changes, and I think Art does too.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Also-

Despite what you may want to believe the game HAS changed:

Top 10 PPG:
8 playoff teams
2 non-playoff teams


Top 10 fewest PPG allowed:
5 playoff teams
5 non-playoff teams

You go back to 2008 and this list is nearly completely reversed. Point is, offense is becoming much more important, and we fortunately have a very young and very solid group of players on that side of the ball.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Being Colbert and Tomlin are neither under a long term contract (2016? w/out looking it up) is telling. I love and respect the hell out of Lebeau, but I think a change was over due. I like to think Lebeau was forced out because Tomlin felt he couldn't demand changes be made on D. Those changes may have been in game adjustments, or draft picks not playing until 3 or 4 years in. The latter can be related to too much faith and love for aging vets. This year will prove if those issues were on Lebeau or not. I think they were and I hope to see some changes, and I think Art does too.

I call it 50/50 because Tombert hasn't drafted much for talent on defense. Who on the defense was drafted by Tomlin/Colbert (Tombert) and is good? Timmons, Heyward, and....that's about all.
You're new here. Welcome to SN.

 

[Sluzilla]

THE WORST SUPER BOWL-WINNING DEFENSE



2006 Colts
12-4
360 points allowed


Our defense allowed 368 points against in 2014

In 2013 we allowed 370 points against.

Translation, we do not have the defense to win a superbowl. History shows you need some.

Heavy pressure is on the Steelers to draft good defensive players.

It's been over four years since Steelers won a playoff game. In the past three playoff games the Steelers are 0-3. A new Head Coach and GM is needed if nothing changes in 2015.

2006 wasn't as point heavy as the current NFL rules have made it...what were the rankings compared to other teams each year...what was the percentage of points allowed compared to points scored...the NFL continues to make rule changes each year that benefits the offense and scoring...

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

2006 wasn't as point heavy as the current NFL rules have made it...what were the rankings compared to other teams each year...what was the percentage of points allowed compared to points scored...the NFL continues to make rule changes each year that benefits the offense and scoring...

See my last post.

Top 10 point scoring teams are making the playoffs more than they have in the past. That's where the game is heading.

 

[TDX27]

We'll be a top 15 defense this year. Not up to our standards but still good enough to win it all if our O plays to their potential and if the team stays healthy.

 

[Turf Hero]

I call it 50/50 because Tombert hasn't drafted much for talent on defense. Who on the defense was drafted by Tomlin/Colbert (Tombert) and is good? Timmons, Heyward, and....that's about all.
You're new here. Welcome to SN.

Thanks for the welcoming.
Couldn't we also put the lack of talent in the secondary on DL? He always valued the rush over coverage and that did work very well when we were able to find DBs in the mid rounds. But that's also the reason we haven't taken a DB in the first round in 18 years. So if Tombert weren't allowed to select a DB in the 1st, or strongly discouraged by DL, couldn't he then be responsible for the talent, or lack there of, of the DBs that were selected later? We may find out how much influence he had on D selections tonight if a DB is selected.
I also believe Heyward is a DL pick. Dick had an obvious love for OSU.
I believe not much has changed since Tomlin was hired in regards to drafting decisions. He was brought in to the league as the youngest HC with a HOF DC. I think as far as defensive drafting, it was Dick's opinion first, then Colbert and then Tomlin. Now we are going to see if DL was the problem or not.
Dont get me wrong. I'll never have as much respect for Tombert as I do Lebeau. And my patience is running thin with Colbert in particularly, but I am excited to see Tomlin and what he can do when having more decision making power on D. His background was always strong D.

 

[deljzc]

I don't really see HOW our defense can play that well.

When you close your eyes and think of a good quarterback that drops back to throw against our defense, what happens in your mind? Who is getting pressure? Who is making plays in the secondary? Where is the disruption and chaos coming from?

This team will not generate a lot of pressure with 4-man rushes. No matter how our 3-4 will try and disguise who that 4th guy is in what is traditionally a non-blitz play, I don't see us getting much pressure in the first 2.5 to 3.0 seconds. We have too many front-7 players that can be handled one-on-one.

So if the pressure isn't getting there, does our secondary have the ability to hold up for 2.5 to 3.0 seconds? I don't think the answer there is that promising either.


Now I do think the run defense can improve. I don't see issues with our OLB's being able to hold the point. Both ILB's should be better as they play together to cover all the gaps. The d-line should hold up well.

But again, even in 3rd and 6 or 7 scenarios I don't see our ability to get off the field consistently. Third down/fourth down conversions against our defense are going to be a nightmare.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

I don't really see HOW our defense can play that well.

When you close your eyes and think of a good quarterback that drops back to throw against our defense, what happens in your mind? Who is getting pressure? Who is making plays in the secondary? Where is the disruption and chaos coming from?

This team will not generate a lot of pressure with 4-man rushes. No matter how our 3-4 will try and disguise who that 4th guy is in what is traditionally a non-blitz play, I don't see us getting much pressure in the first 2.5 to 3.0 seconds. We have too many front-7 players that can be handled one-on-one.

So if the pressure isn't getting there, does our secondary have the ability to hold up for 2.5 to 3.0 seconds? I don't think the answer there is that promising either.


Now I do think the run defense can improve. I don't see issues with our OLB's being able to hold the point. Both ILB's should be better as they play together to cover all the gaps. The d-line should hold up well.

But again, even in 3rd and 6 or 7 scenarios I don't see our ability to get off the field consistently. Third down/fourth down conversions against our defense are going to be a nightmare.

I agree with you, I definitely don't see us jumping in the top 10 next year. But I do see us getting slightly better.

Tuitt will get better. Jones will get healthier. Shazier will get better.

Other then maybe Worilds, no one that we lost was instrumental to the defense. In fact, you can argue that some may be addition from subtraction.

If we can either nab a solid CB or OLB- there is no reason why this defense should be a lot better in 2015.

 

[stuntmanmike]

If the offense puts up the numbers many think they will then the defense should be playing down hill a lot. " just rush the quarterback" !!!!!!! Should help That alot of young guys on this defense are due to come through we'll see

 

[Punxsutawney]

Also-

Despite what you may want to believe the game HAS changed:

Top 10 PPG:
8 playoff teams
2 non-playoff teams


Top 10 fewest PPG allowed:
5 playoff teams
5 non-playoff teams

You go back to 2008 and this list is nearly completely reversed. Point is, offense is becoming much more important, and we fortunately have a very young and very solid group of players on that side of the ball.

Yet, it was two top 10 scoring defenses playing in the Super Bowl this past February.

Just because the rules are being skewed toward the offense does not mean one should greatly de-prioritize defense, as teams with weak defenses rarely win in the playoffs, which is the ultimate objective.

A team doesn't need a particularly strong defense to win anymore, but you still cannot win a championship with a weak one. Even the Colts' defense Coach cited played great in the 2006 post season when Bob Sanders came back healthy, carrying the Colts against the Chiefs and Ravens when Peyton played like raunchy ***, throwing three picks in each game.

I remember seeing a statistic at the conclusion of last season showing that last season was tha first since the merger 1970 where the Steelers' basically ranked at the bottom of the league in yards per play allowed. I believe only the Falcons were worse in 2014.

It's just frustrating to know that despite the Steelers having their best QB/RB tandem since Bradshaw/Harris, they have virtually no chance of winning the Super Bowl because Tombert has allowed the defense to slip to an embarrassing extent.

 

[steelhurt]

Coach, just a quick question, if you don't mind me asking. Is there a specific reason you leave 4-5 line breaks between your sentences? Is that to help us slower folk with reading comprehension? Or is there some other reason for it? Thanks.

That's funny Tibs.:cpu:








Coach; out of respect for you I skipped multiple lines.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I don't really see HOW our defense can play that well.

When you close your eyes and think of a good quarterback that drops back to throw against our defense, what happens in your mind? Who is getting pressure? Who is making plays in the secondary? Where is the disruption and chaos coming from?

This team will not generate a lot of pressure with 4-man rushes. No matter how our 3-4 will try and disguise who that 4th guy is in what is traditionally a non-blitz play, I don't see us getting much pressure in the first 2.5 to 3.0 seconds. We have too many front-7 players that can be handled one-on-one.

So if the pressure isn't getting there, does our secondary have the ability to hold up for 2.5 to 3.0 seconds? I don't think the answer there is that promising either.


Now I do think the run defense can improve. I don't see issues with our OLB's being able to hold the point. Both ILB's should be better as they play together to cover all the gaps. The d-line should hold up well.

But again, even in 3rd and 6 or 7 scenarios I don't see our ability to get off the field consistently. Third down/fourth down conversions against our defense are going to be a nightmare.

My perspective pretty much mirrors your own.

I have difficulty visualizing any scenario where the defense is meaningfully better next season (meaning at least average).

The secondary will likely once again be in the conversation for the league's worst, and it's hard to see where the hits on the QB are going to come from.

They almost need something crazy to happen, such as both Jarvis Jones and Cortez Allen unexpectedly emerging as top-notch defenders, and/or Tombert pulling a rabbit out of their *** by having a 2001 Hampton/Bell type draft where they land immediate impact contributors at CB and OLB.

 

[steelhurt]

No wouldn't think so with the schedule we have to face. The west coast swing in all probability will not be kind to us. Our defense will be facing better QB's this season and with the CB's and Safety's we have it could be a long season. On top of that we still have issues on offense scoring in the red zone and until that gets fixed Suisham will continue to kick lots of FG's. I see us going in the other direction this season with continued defensive problems.

 

[Stryker]

Heyward gets double teamed, and with a year under his belt, Tuitt may be able to be more disruptive and merit some double teams. I'd personally like McCullers on the field on Running downs, because he does merit 2 men if you want to run internally. It's up to the LBs to fill the gaps, read the play quickly and get the ball carriers on the ground. McClendon is quicker at rushing the passer from the inside, so in passing sets, I like him on the field.

I'm also not as gloom or doom on the secondary. I've always liked Golden and would like to see him on the field if Shamarko can't stay healthy. Allen is a fine option as well and our safety valve at safety if you will. If Brown comes back from his mental state, our CB situation is improved. We have to get pressure to help them out, and that is the only question mark I see is generating consistent pressure.

The defense improved as the year went on, so there's no reason to believe that they can't improve this year, while healthier, and with an extra year of prep for our young players.

 

[fogdoctor]

The defense improved as the year went on, so there's no reason to believe that they can't improve this year, while healthier, and with an extra year of prep for our young players.

I did not see the season the way you did......
1) The D gave up the same number of pts / game in the first 5 games vs the last 5 games. Not better.
2) If I am not mistaken, the total D and passing yds / game were also worse in the last 5 vs the first 5. I think the passing numbers were worse by a lot too.

The reason we were winning at the end was we went from scoring 22.8pts / game (first 5) to 29.9pts / game (last 5). Also, our total offense went up more than 20yds (or 2 first downs) / game which was keeping our **** D off the field.

This is the sky is falling approach I am taking this year.

 

[Coach]

I don't really see HOW our defense can play that well.

When you close your eyes and think of a good quarterback that drops back to throw against our defense, what happens in your mind? Who is getting pressure? Who is making plays in the secondary? Where is the disruption and chaos coming from?

This team will not generate a lot of pressure with 4-man rushes. No matter how our 3-4 will try and disguise who that 4th guy is in what is traditionally a non-blitz play, I don't see us getting much pressure in the first 2.5 to 3.0 seconds. We have too many front-7 players that can be handled one-on-one.

So if the pressure isn't getting there, does our secondary have the ability to hold up for 2.5 to 3.0 seconds? I don't think the answer there is that promising either.


Now I do think the run defense can improve. I don't see issues with our OLB's being able to hold the point. Both ILB's should be better as they play together to cover all the gaps. The d-line should hold up well.

But again, even in 3rd and 6 or 7 scenarios I don't see our ability to get off the field consistently. Third down/fourth down conversions against our defense are going to be a nightmare.

Hammer meet nail. This is the problem. With more teams passing, you have to have a strong pass rush and good coverage people. The draft needs to re-load OLB and CB. I'm fine with our first four picks spent here.

 

[21STEELERS21]

The Steelers could easily have a top 10 defense in 2015. They actually fixed half the problem in 2014. They started off pretty bad against the run and ended
up 6th. With the experience Tuitt, McCullers, Shazier, Spence and Williams gained, I could see them back in the 85 yds per game top 3 in the league against
the run in 2015.

Now the pass defense at 27th is the area for much improvement. If Mitchell was playing hurt, we could see big improvement at FS. Gay will play about the same, so you
need big improvement at SS and the other corner. Thomas will be a ? until we see him play. Will Allen is a reliable back-up. Draft a starting CB, a OLB that can play half the snaps and
a DE that makes it into the rotation and we have a much different defense.

Butler is also a wild card. Everyone had the book on Lebeau's tendencies. A new defensive coach will require everyone to start building a new book. There could be some advantage to that
in 2015.

 

[fogdoctor]

The Steelers could easily have a top 10 defense in 2015. They actually fixed half the problem in 2014. They started off pretty bad against the run and ended
up 6th.

Not that I don't WANT us to do well but this is misleading. We were putting up close to 30pts a game the last half of the season - teams were not running against us. On the other hand we gave up something like 50yds/game passing over the last 5 than the first 5. My conclusion is that the offense saved our *** from a 6 win season.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

This is the sky is falling approach I am taking this year.

Dittos. I'll make two predictions right now:
1. They'll get scorched by the Cheating Bastiges From New England in the opener.
2. Shades' eyes will be bugging out at the post-game presser again as he tries to explain WTF happened.

 

[fogdoctor]

Dittos. I'll make two predictions right now:
1. They'll get scorched by the Cheating Bastiges From New England in the opener.
2. Shades' eyes will be bugging out at the post-game presser again as he tries to explain WTF happened.

Honestly, really honestly, I would be tempted to WR in round 1. If Parker or Perriman fall it is tempting so just say screw it and try for 35pts a game. I'm not sure there is a defensive player I like as much as those 2 late in the first.

 

[Litos]

Dittos. I'll make two predictions right now:
1. They'll get scorched by the Cheating Bastiges From New England in the opener.
2. Shades' eyes will be bugging out at the post-game presser again as he tries to explain WTF happened.

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