Is Mike Tomlin an Elite Coach?

[SteelBuckeye]

1. Most NFL head coaches with our talent would look just as good or better.

Tomlin makes way too many mistakes, 2. loses too often to inferior competition, and is 3-6 in his last nine playoff games. All of the above is documented. He is not a specialist capable of calling and designing plays for an offense or defense; 3. he delegates this to the people he hires and doesn't call any plays, except for strategic decisions. 4. His mouth seldom moves when the camera is on him; sometimes the headset is up. Rather telling, I think. Have you see Tomlin do any sideline coaching? Its very rare.

5. He's a middle of the pack type of talent, who if he were on a .500 type of team would not have lasted as long as he did.

6.He won a super bowl with Bill Cowher's players many years ago. He's also got a franchise level QB and a very good GM in Colbert.

1. A supposition without verifiable proof is a fallacy
2. As was mentioned, 14-2 over the last two years against "inferior" competition. Therefore, he has improved over the last couple of years. Making your statement "fake news".
3. So, you're saying he does his job as a HEAD COACH and let's his Coordinators do theirs.
4. Yeah, he should be flapping his gums just to appease the cameras. What kind of moron doesn't allow folks to read his lips while he's coaching. More telling is the statements from his actual players who say he is very vocal with them during games. But, you stick to that observation you get once in awhile from the t.v. cameras during the games you don't watch.
5. I can't think of any coach who would last a long time if he was coaching teams to .500 records.
6. So, you're saying that years ago, he took the talent he had and won a SB with it. That seems like a plus. Now, if he had NOT taken that talent to TWO SBs, then it would be a minus. And Ben is but one piece of the puzzle on this team. A mighty big one, but still one. Btw, if Colbert gets the credit for player acquisition now, then Cowher was lucky to have him when he was here too. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Steelworth]

Beat me to it.
Damning with faint praise, but Shades is clearly one of the top five coaches in the game right now.

This is where I'm at. But too many one and done exits. I know it's more complex than that but until they go deep into the playoffs again, color me a little skeptical. And I've been a Tomlin fan.

But really, using his winning % and record alone, an argument can be made for easily Top 3 in the game today. Prove all the naysayers wrong, Shades!

 

[warriors42]

So what is Chuck Noll without Bradshaw, Shula without Griese, Walsh without Montana, Belichick without Brady, Shannahan without Elway, etc etc etc. Every elite QB had an elite coach. They go hand in hand.

I'm curious for you to list your top 10 coaches?

Noll/Bradshaw= 4 SB wins. Shula/Griese three straight appearances and 2 SB wins. Walsh/Montana=4 SB wins. Belichick/Brady 7 appearances 5 wins. Shannahan/Elway 4 appearances and two wins. Do you really want to put Tomlin in the catagory of these other coaches? Tomlin has struggled to win in the playoffs with a SB caliber team for years. Ben and his offense put up over 40 points against the jags to just see the defensegive up more than we scored. Tomlin was supposed to be a defensive guru yet it has been our biggest weakness since he has been here.

Tomlin is not an elite coach, but he has managed to piss away some of the best years of an elite QB and an elite offense.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Belichick is a defensive guru, how many points did his defense give up in the last SB?


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[ark steel]

Noll/Bradshaw= 4 SB wins. Shula/Griese three straight appearances and 2 SB wins. Walsh/Montana=4 SB wins. Belichick/Brady 7 appearances 5 wins. Shannahan/Elway 4 appearances and two wins. Do you really want to put Tomlin in the catagory of these other coaches? Tomlin has struggled to win in the playoffs with a SB caliber team for years. Ben and his offense put up over 40 points against the jags to just see the defensegive up more than we scored. Tomlin was supposed to be a defensive guru yet it has been our biggest weakness since he has been here.

Tomlin is not an elite coach, but he has managed to piss away some of the best years of an elite QB and an elite offense.

Ben also gave the other team 10+ points before putting up those 40. Without those early fuckups, it is a different game.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Ben also gave the other team 10+ points before putting up those 40. Without those early fuckups, it is a different game.

It is what it is. Tomlin HAS pissed away some prime opportunities. Ben HAS pissed away some prime opportunities. AND, every once in awhile some bit player does something stupid that pisses away a prime opportunity (I'm looking at you Fitz). Thing about it is, folks want Tomlin to sit and publicly accept the blame for everyone's failures. Not just his own. I've never seen any coach do that. Hell, even Belicheat either says he'd do it the same way again (i.e. Butler in the SB) or he says something like "we're on to ......" or gives the reporter the hoodie death stare. You show me a coach who sits and says publicly "it's all my fault" or seems to second guess himself and I'll show you a coach who is on his way to being fired.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Noll/Bradshaw= 4 SB wins. Shula/Griese three straight appearances and 2 SB wins. Walsh/Montana=4 SB wins. Belichick/Brady 7 appearances 5 wins. Shannahan/Elway 4 appearances and two wins. Do you really want to put Tomlin in the catagory of these other coaches? Tomlin has struggled to win in the playoffs with a SB caliber team for years. Ben and his offense put up over 40 points against the jags to just see the defensegive up more than we scored. Tomlin was supposed to be a defensive guru yet it has been our biggest weakness since he has been here.

Tomlin is not an elite coach, but he has managed to piss away some of the best years of an elite QB and an elite offense.

Ben's stats from 2010 on in the playoffs

Baltimore 19 32 59.38% 226yds 2td 0int 101.8 passer rating 6sacks. WIN

NY jets 10 com 19 att 52.63% 133yds 0td 2int 35.5 passer rating 2 sacks WIN

Green Bay 25com 40att 62.50% 263 2tds 2int 77.4 passer rating 1 sacks LOSS

2011
Denver 22com 40att 55.00% 289yds 1td 1int 75.9 passer rating 5 sacks LOSS

2014
Baltmore 31com 45att 68.89 334yds 1td 2int 79.3 passer rating 5 sacks LOSS

2015
Bengals 18com 31att 58.06% 229yds 1tds 0int 92.0 passer rating 3 sacks WIN

Denver 24com 37att 64.86% 339yds 0tds 0int 94.3 passer rating 3sacks. LOSS

2016
Miami 13com 18att 72.22% 197yds 2td 2int 105.3 passer rating 1 sack. WIN

Kansas City 20com 31att 64.52% 224yds 0tds 1int 72.5 passer rating 1sack. WIN

Patriots 31com 47att 65.96& 314yds 1td 1int 83.1passer rating 0 sacks. LOSS

2017
Jags 37com 58att 63.79% 469yds 5tds 1int 110.5 passer rating 2 sacks 1 fumble. LOSS


Ben hasn't lit the world on fire in the playoffs himself his best game was probably the gritty game against Denver. Hurt shoulder wasted by Toousiant fumble.. so all that pissed away doesnt jive with the stats. Ben hasnt been Tomlin's best player in most of these games. But i already know its was the gameplan or Tomlin didnt properly prepare Ben.

 

[Omar10213245]

Ben's stats from 2010 on in the playoffs

Baltimore 19 32 59.38% 226yds 2td 0int 101.8 passer rating 6sacks. WIN

NY jets 10 com 19 att 52.63% 133yds 0td 2int 35.5 passer rating 2 sacks WIN

Green Bay 25com 40att 62.50% 263 2tds 2int 77.4 passer rating 1 sacks LOSS

2011
Denver 22com 40att 55.00% 289yds 1td 1int 75.9 passer rating 5 sacks LOSS

2014
Baltmore 31com 45att 68.89 334yds 1td 2int 79.3 passer rating 5 sacks LOSS

2015
Bengals 18com 31att 58.06% 229yds 1tds 0int 92.0 passer rating 3 sacks WIN

Denver 24com 37att 64.86% 339yds 0tds 0int 94.3 passer rating 3sacks. LOSS

2016
Miami 13com 18att 72.22% 197yds 2td 2int 105.3 passer rating 1 sack. WIN

Kansas City 20com 31att 64.52% 224yds 0tds 1int 72.5 passer rating 1sack. WIN

Patriots 31com 47att 65.96& 314yds 1td 1int 83.1passer rating 0 sacks. LOSS

2017
Jags 37com 58att 63.79% 469yds 5tds 1int 110.5 passer rating 2 sacks 1 fumble. LOSS


Ben hasn't lit the world on fire in the playoffs himself his best game was probably the gritty game against Denver. Hurt shoulder wasted by Toousiant fumble.. so all that pissed away doesnt jive with the stats. Ben hasnt been Tomlin's best player in most of these games. But i already know its was the gameplan or Tomlin didnt properly prepare Ben.

Just accept it. Tomlin is an "elite regular season coach" who doesn't really get the most of out of team to win major playoff games, it is what it is.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Just accept it. Tomlin is an "elite regular season coach" who doesn't really get the most of out of team to win major playoff games, it is what it is.

No problem just as long as we accept his best player hasnt been his best player in the playoffs in a long time..

 

[slashsteel]

Solid debate, which boils down to probably some of both.

But with some new coaches and a little extra motivation for Ben.

I think we will see some good results.

 

[SteelChip]

Mostly agree ADJ but Tomlin'srecord is less than stellar when it comes to game planning and reaction to opponent's trends.

Ben's post season problems...

The Pittsburgh Steelers won Super Bowl XL 21–10 over the Seattle Seahawks in Detroit on February 5, 2006. Roethlisberger had one of the worst passing games of his career, completing just nine of 21 passes for 123 yards and two interceptions; his passer rating of 22.6 was the lowest in Super Bowl history by a winning quarterback.

could well be a result of improper game planning...no ?

After all, he is almost assuredly a first round HOF candidate,

NFL records

Most regular season wins in a season, rookie QB – 13 (2004)[190]
Longest regular season win streak to start a career for a NFL QB – 15 games (won all 13 starts in the 2004 season, won first 2 games of the 2005 season)[191]
Most wins as a starting quarterback in first five NFL seasons (reg. season only) – 51 (from 2004 to 2008)[86]
Highest completion percentage, rookie season – 66.4% (2004)[192] (Since broken by Dak Prescott)
Highest single-game completion percentage, rookie season (min. 20 attempts) – 84.0% (completed 21/25 at Dallas 10/17/2004)[193] (Since broken by Dak Prescott)
Most games with a completion percentage of 70.0% or higher, rookie season (min. 10 attempts) – 6 (2004)[194]
Most games with a completion percentage of 80.0% or higher, single season (min. 10 attempts) – 4 (2007)[195]
(Tie) Most touchdown passes, Monday Night Football game – 5 (11/5/2007 vs. Baltimore Ravens)[191]
First QB to start two Conference Championship games in first two seasons in the NFL (2004 & 2005)[191]
Youngest starting QB ever to win the Super Bowl (2005; second-youngest QB to play in the Super Bowl, behind Dan Marino)[196]
Second quarterback in NFL history, along with Peyton Manning, to register three perfect passing games during the regular season, and the only quarterback to ever register two perfect passing games in one regular season.[191]
Lowest passer rating for a Super Bowl winning QB – 22.6 (Completed 9 of 21 passes for zero touchdowns with two interceptions)[197]
Most yards passing in relief (379 yards on 11/15/2015 against the Cleveland Browns)
Most consecutive 6+ touchdown pass games (2)
Most TD passes in consecutive games (12)
Most career 500+ yard passing games (3)

Pittsburgh Steelers franchise records

In his eleven seasons, Roethlisberger has many individual accomplishments that are record performances in Steelers history.[198][199]

On October 11, 2012, he passed Terry Bradshaw for most passing yards for a Steelers quarterback.

On December 8, 2013, he passed Terry Bradshaw for most passing touchdowns for a Steelers quarterback.
Career records

147–69 (.681) record as starting QB (includes a 13–7 playoff record)
Highest passer rating (Min. 20 attempts) – 93.8
Highest completion percentage (Min. 20 attempts) — 64.1%
Longest pass completion – 97-yard touchdown to JuJu Smith-Schuster on 10/29/2017 against the Detroit Lions
Most pass attempts – 6,434
Most pass completions – 4,122
Most times sacked – 475
Most 200+ yard passing games – 124 (includes nine playoff games)
Most 300+ yard passing games – 41 (includes one playoff game)
Most consecutive games with 300+ yards passing – 4 (from November 8, 2015 through December 12, 2015)
Most 400+ yard passing games – 10
Most 500+ yard Passing games – 3
Most 3,000-yard passing seasons – 12 (2006–2017)
Most consecutive 3,000-yard passing seasons – 12 (2006–2017)
Most 4,000-Yard Passing Seasons – 4 (2009, 2011, 2013, 2014)
Most consecutive 4,000-yard passing seasons – 2 (2013–2014)
Most 3+ TD passing games – 45 (includes one playoff game)
Most 4+ TD passing games – 14
Most 5+ TD passing games – 5
Most 6+ TD passing games – 2
Most consecutive games with a TD pass – 30 (from September 9, 2012 through September 7, 2014)
Most consecutive home games with a TD pass – 45 (from December 19, 2010 through September 17, 2017)
Most 4th quarter comeback wins – 32
Most game-winning drives – 43
Most games with a passer rating over 100.0 (regular season; min. 10 attempts) – 84 (includes four playoff games)
Most games with a perfect passer rating – 3
Most games with 40+ pass attempts – 52 (includes five playoff games)
Most games with 20+ completions – 119 (includes nine playoff games)
Most games with 30+ completions – 22 (includes two playoff games)

Season records

Highest completion percentage – 67.1% (2014)
Most touchdown passes – 32 (2007, 2014)
Highest touchdown pass percentage – 7.92% (2007)
Highest yards per attempt – 8.90 (2005)
Highest passer rating – 104.1 (2007)
Most passing yards – 4,952 (2014)
Most 200+ yard passing games – 15 (2014)
Most 300+ yard passing games – 9 (2014)[200]
Most 400+ yard passing games – 2 (2009, 2014)
Most 500+ yard passing games – 1 (2009, 2014, 2017)
Most 3+ TD passing games – 5 (2007, 2009)
(Tie) Most 4+ TD passing games – 3 (2007)
Most pass completions – 408 (2014)
Lowest interception percentage – 1.29% (2010; 5 INTs on 389 attempts)
Fewest interceptions (Min. 10 attempts/game) – 5 (2010)

Single-game records

Most passing yards – 522 (Completed 40 of 49 passes for 522 yards and 6 touchdowns on October 26, 2014 against the Indianapolis Colts)
Most pass completions – 44 (Completed 44 of 66 passes for 506 yards on December 10, 2017 against the Baltimore Ravens)
(Tie) Most consecutive passes completed, single game – 15 (Completed 15 straight on November 26, 2007 against the Miami Dolphins on Monday Night Football. Bubby Brister also completed 15 straight on October 1, 1989 against the Detroit Lions.)
Highest completion %, game (min. 20 attempts) – 85.7% (Completed 18 out of 21 attempts on November 26, 2007 against the Miami Dolphins on Monday Night Football)
Most touchdown passes, game – 6 (Threw six TD passes against the Indianapolis Colts on October 26, 2014 and again the following week on November 2, 2014 against the Baltimore Ravens)[201]

Rookie records (achieved during 2004 season)

Most pass attempts – 295
Most pass completions – 196
Highest completion percentage – 66.4%
Most passing yards – 2621
Most touchdown passes – 17
Highest yards per attempt – 8.88
Highest passer rating – 98.1
Wins as starting quarterback – 13

Postseason records

Highest completion percentage (Min. 50 attempts) – 61.3%
Highest passer rating – 84.5

 

[antdrewjosh]

The 2005 super bowl was under Cowher.

I guess we can say the same for both then elite in the regular season sub par in the playoffs. But that wasted narrative should be put to bed.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Most touchdown passes, game – 6 (Threw six TD passes against the Indianapolis Colts on October 26, 2014 and again the following week on November 2, 2014 against the Baltimore Ravens)[201]

The jerseys Ben wore for those two games were transported by Ron Jr. in the trunk of his Mustang from the Heinz History Center, where he worked at the time, to Heinz Field for an event and back. I told him he should have had a notarized letter to that effect to go with the car when he traded it in last year.

 

[black and gold apex]

No way elite Tomlin 's only back slappers come from the sports media and TV announcers not the Pittsburgh area fan base.

 

[Coach]

1. A supposition without verifiable proof is a fallacy
2. As was mentioned, 14-2 over the last two years against "inferior" competition. Therefore, he has improved over the last couple of years. Making your statement "fake news".
3. So, you're saying he does his job as a HEAD COACH and let's his Coordinators do theirs.
4. Yeah, he should be flapping his gums just to appease the cameras. What kind of moron doesn't allow folks to read his lips while he's coaching. More telling is the statements from his actual players who say he is very vocal with them during games. But, you stick to that observation you get once in awhile from the t.v. cameras during the games you don't watch.
5. I can't think of any coach who would last a long time if he was coaching teams to .500 records.
6. So, you're saying that years ago, he took the talent he had and won a SB with it. That seems like a plus. Now, if he had NOT taken that talent to TWO SBs, then it would be a minus. And Ben is but one piece of the puzzle on this team. A mighty big one, but still one. Btw, if Colbert gets the credit for player acquisition now, then Cowher was lucky to have him when he was here too. Can't have it both ways.

1 )Dude, Cowher was winning division titles with O'Donnell ( and going to the super bowl ).

After Neil left he had to start, Stewart, Tomczak, Miller and Maddox, yet still went to the playoffs with them under center. That takes good coaching. Tomlin would have been fired with any of those jokers after 4 years.

2 ) Tomlin inherited Lebeau, and fired Arians, who was the last OC to take the Steelers to the super bowl. Yes, a head coach is responsible for hiring the OC and DC. So how did Haley work out? I'm saying the best head coaches take a part of their game and enhance it with their new team. Tomlin never did this.

3 ) Do you ever see Ben and Tomlin talking on the sideline? Nope, he knows too little about offense. As for the defense, I hardly see him talking to the captains there either.

 

[antdrewjosh]

1 )Dude, Cowher was winning division titles with O'Donnell ( and going to the super bowl ).

After Neil left he had to start, Stewart, Tomczak, Miller and Maddox, yet still went to the playoffs with them under center. That takes good coaching. Tomlin would have been fired with any of those jokers after 4 years.

2 ) Tomlin inherited Lebeau, and fired Arians, who was the last OC to take the Steelers to the super bowl. Yes, a head coach is responsible for hiring the OC and DC. So how did Haley work out? I'm saying the best head coaches take a part of their game and enhance it with their new team. Tomlin never did this.

3 ) Do you ever see Ben and Tomlin talking on the sideline? Nope, he knows too little about offense. As for the defense, I hardly see him talking to the captains there either.

Again everything you posted has no factual value..all opinions

 

[Omar10213245]

No problem just as long as we accept his best player hasnt been his best player in the playoffs in a long time..

sure, as long as we accept that even WITH his best player not being his best player in the playoffs in a long time, there has still been ample talent/ability on the team to be able to make up for it to get the team to the winner's podium, yet it hasn't happened since 2009.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

1 )2 ) Tomlin inherited Lebeau, and fired Arians, who was the last OC to take the Steelers to the super bowl. Yes, a head coach is responsible for hiring the OC and DC. So how did Haley work out? I'm saying the best head coaches take a part of their game and enhance it with their new team. Tomlin never did this.

I think the offense was better under Haley but during his tenure the defense steadily got worse, due in equal parts to rules changes, teams figuring out Lebeau's defense, and bad draft picks.

 

[jitter77]

the defense even under lebeau was starting to decline because teams were figuring it out and lebeau was not adapting. We also had superior players at that time. Now our players aren't as good, the scheme has not changed much, and we are getting burnt. with our defensive talent we are not going to be a top of the line defense, but we should be better than we are and that falls on coaching. you can point the finger at butler, but if he is not getting the job done then its up to Tomlin to fire him or tell him to get it right.

 

[jitter77]

also to those who say coaching does not matter, look at the rams last year. goff looked like a bust the previous year and then last year he looked like he could be league mvp and the team was in the playoffs. tomlin will rack up the wins, but once it counts the team falters

 

[antdrewjosh]

sure, as long as we accept that even WITH his best player not being his best player in the playoffs in a long time, there has still been ample talent/ability on the team to be able to make up for it to get the team to the winner's podium, yet it hasn't happened since 2009.

So Tomlin must overcome his franchise player not being his best player but other coaches dont got it..

 

[Ron Burgundy]

also to those who say coaching does not matter, look at the rams last year. goff looked like a bust the previous year and then last year he looked like he could be league mvp and the team was in the playoffs. tomlin will rack up the wins, but once it counts the team falters

Somewhat, I mean they shouldn't have lost the first round playoff game to the Jags last year while scoring 42 points, but the elephant in the room is Darth Hoodie and the Pats***** who they can never get past. For all his faults, Shades is still a better coach than pretty much all but one. I will note that all three times they got to the Super Bowl in the last 12 years they never had to face the Pats***** in the playoffs.

 

[Drink IRON City]

So Tomlin must overcome his franchise player not being his best player but other coaches dont got it..

If you are that obtuse to the meaning of his post,......YOU don't got it. Tomlin has had extremely good talent but can't get them past anything. It's not just players faltering but COACHING has FALTERed as well. Got It.



Salute the nation

 

[antdrewjosh]

If you are that obtuse to the meaning of his post,......YOU don't got it. Tomlin has had extremely good talent but can't get them past anything. It's not just players faltering but COACHING has FALTERed as well. Got It.



Salute the nation

Im not obtuse to anything. I responded to Warriors post saying Tomlin has wasted Ben years.. so i showed Bens performances in the playoffs since 2008. Have they been Franchise QB worthy to you?? So how has tomlin wasted Ben years when ben himself hasnt been great. Isnt he our best player. What coach has consistently won without his best player being great? **** i would accept consistently good. Got it?

 

[DBS1970]

Again everything you posted has no factual value..all opinions

Just verifiable history.