Is JAX #33 and 65 Good for #24?

[21STEELERS21]

This seems to be the definitive year to move down and get an extra player if the Steelers will and can. A number of teams have an early # 2 & #3 and was wondering if the charts say that's good value for #24. We would have some extra leverage with JAX since I believe they pick #25 and might have some concern that we take a player they like at #24.

 

[bermudasteel]

No - we'll miss on Najee at #33...

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

No - we'll miss on Najee at #33...

Take Javonte Williams and the extra pick. Scheme is more important than who is running the ball in my opinion.

 

[Drink IRON City]

No - we'll miss on Najee at #33...

Will Williams be there at 33 and if so, I'd think strongly on it. Provided the ALL AMRICAN left tackle isn't there at 1.24



Salute the nation

 

[Steelers1356]

Our biggest need is RB and we have a decent chance to pick up a quality back at 24. Trading back 2 or 3 spots, maybe, but trading back to 33 seems a bit risky, as the top RB's could be gone by then. Getting a top RB is critical this year so you don't want to mess around.

 

[bermudasteel]

Our biggest need is RB and we have a decent chance to pick up a quality back at 24. Trading back 2 or 3 spots, maybe, but trading back to 33 seems a bit risky, as the top RB's could be gone by then. Getting a top RB is critical this year so you don't want to mess around.

Agreed - Miami is DEFINITELY going to take on of the top 3. So that leaves two and I wouldn't take a chance dropping to #33...

 

[TDX27]

I'm not moving back and don't think the Steelers will either. They rarely do.

 

[Steeltime]

Jags have five of the top 65 picks and four of the top 45 picks, and also a ton of needs. I don't think they have any interest at all in moving. They can get Lawrence 1-1, a top LT, a very good CB and a solid DL prospect, and a TE with pick 65.

Why would they give up one of those improvements to move up 9 spots?

Also, according to the NFL draft chart value table, pick 24 has a value of 740 points. Picks 33 and 65 have a combined value of 845 points.

https://theboysareback.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/nfl-draft-trade-value-chart-2015-nfl-draft-trade-pick-value-chart-printable-print-nfl-draft.jpg

Again, does not work. If the Jags were to make such a deal, it would probably be something like picks 33 and 97 (first pick of the 4th), which have a combined value of 692 points.

P.S. For those who think the Steelers have "one last run" and were happy to re-sign Ben, and simultaneously wonder how Jacksonville wound up with four of the top 45 picks in a pretty decent draft ... by taking their medicine in 2020 to set up the franchise for the next 6 years. That's the way it works.

 

[GMC]

P.S. For those who think the Steelers have "one last run" and were happy to re-sign Ben, and simultaneously wonder how Jacksonville wound up with four of the top 45 picks in a pretty decent draft ... by taking their medicine in 2020 to set up the franchise for the next 6 years. That's the way it works.

Taking their medicine? You act like the Jags are perennial contenders that took their lumps for a year in order to return to greatness. They have multiple top picks almost every year because they're a perennial door mat that occasionally puts together a solid season or two. Great model for the Steelers to follow.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Taking their medicine? You act like the Jags are perennial contenders that took their lumps for a year in order to return to greatness. They have multiple top picks almost every year because they're a perennial door mat that occasionally puts together a solid season or two. Great model for the Steelers to follow.

AMEN


EDIT: WE ARE THE MODEL

Salute the nation

 

[Ike Kelly]

Jags have five of the top 65 picks and four of the top 45 picks, and also a ton of needs. I don't think they have any interest at all in moving. They can get Lawrence 1-1, a top LT, a very good CB and a solid DL prospect, and a TE with pick 65.

Why would they give up one of those improvements to move up 9 spots?

Also, according to the NFL draft chart value table, pick 24 has a value of 740 points. Picks 33 and 65 have a combined value of 845 points.

https://theboysareback.files.wordpress.com/2015/04/nfl-draft-trade-value-chart-2015-nfl-draft-trade-pick-value-chart-printable-print-nfl-draft.jpg

Again, does not work. If the Jags were to make such a deal, it would probably be something like picks 33 and 97 (first pick of the 4th), which have a combined value of 692 points.

P.S. For those who think the Steelers have "one last run" and were happy to re-sign Ben, and simultaneously wonder how Jacksonville wound up with four of the top 45 picks in a pretty decent draft ... by taking their medicine in 2020 to set up the franchise for the next 6 years. That's the way it works.

That’s an outdated chart. Over 5 years old and was under the old CBA for rookie contracts. Plus each team has their own value system. The fact Jax has all those picks a actually helps the Steelers in trade bargaining.

 

[Steeltime]

Taking their medicine? You act like the Jags are perennial contenders that took their lumps for a year in order to return to greatness. They have multiple top picks almost every year because they're a perennial door mat that occasionally puts together a solid season or two. Great model for the Steelers to follow.

Steelers are awesomeness squared. Cubed. Nobody gooder. Feel better?

Let's just state some facts.

The Steelers current roster construction is a huge problem. The Steelers current cap issues are a huge problem. The Steelers have limited draft capital on a roster that needs a significant infusion of young talent, for controlled cost. The Steelers have not won a playoff game since the 2016 season, and lost quite a few key players from the good but not great roster of 2020. The Steelers went 1-5 after losing Dupree, and that one win was a nailbiter fourth quarter comeback vs. the Colts. Now, Dupree is gone for good, as are numerous other starters. And the current management is responsible for all that.

Meanwhile, the Jags put Trent Baalke in charge of personnel about 13 months ago. In that time, Baalke has turned the roster over completely and will have completely re-made the team by this point next season. The team has 11 players added from the 2020 draft after the team went 6-10 and had the #9 pick. Baalke traded Ramsey for the 25th pick in the upcoming draft, Ngakoue for the 45th pick, Bouye for the 137th pick, Campbell for the 157th pick. The team also sucked and went 1-15 because in part the team wanted a genuine QB, instead of the Minshews and Bortles and Hennes. That is how the team wound up with 4 of the first 45 picks, including first overall, in a draft that seems pretty darn good in several key areas (OL, CB, QB) and where the 1-1 pick features a genuinely superior prospect. Elite.

The team will add six or seven quality players, including 4 of the top 45, to the 11 picks from 2020, and have 13-14 starters 25 or younger. In other words, they will have built a very good young roster, with a franchise QB, solid RB (free agent James Robinson), developing WR corps, good OL that is going to get better in this draft, developing defense with three really good players (Allen, Jack, Henderson) and ready to add more. The team also has some cap room because their roster is stacked with recent draft picks.

Oh, know what else the Jaguars have done over the past four seasons the Steelers haven't?

Won a playoff game.

So keep drinking the Tomlin Kool-Aid if it makes you feel better. I wish this Steeler team was stocked with excellent young talent and had a slew of early picks in a good draft class.

They aren't, and they don't. The team keeps acting like the 2019 defense will be on the field next season, and they can get a RB and LT and TE and OLB and CB in the draft and upgrade while doing so, and all the chips fall just right.

Okay, great. Sure. Reality says otherwise. The team put off the inevitable for maybe a year, more likely 8 or 9 games, by bringing Ben back. That's it. The team as of right now - today - needs a QB, RB, WR, LT, C, TE, OLB, ILB, CB, and slot CB. Pretending otherwise does not make it so.

 

[Steeltime]

That’s an outdated chart. Over 5 years old and was under the old CBA for rookie contracts. Plus each team has their own value system. The fact Jax has all those picks a actually helps the Steelers in trade bargaining.

Moving from 33 to 24 is nothing like moving from 21 to 12, or 19 to 10. It just isn't. The talent differential means that the first 8 players are in a group. as are the second 8, third 8, etc.

Also, I asked what interest the Jaguars have in moving from 33 to 24. Why would they do that and give up pick #65? Can you explain what player they want at 24 who is not going to be there, or an equivalent player, at 33?

If the talent drop-off is so significant, why would the Steelers make the deal? If the talent drop-off is not that significant, why would the Jaguars make the move?

 

[Ike Kelly]

All points of conviction. However, I just respectfully agree to disagree several of them.

You just commented that OL, QB, CB are needs for Jax. If they see a OL or CB they coveted ranked higher than 24, why wouldn’t they trade up for the player? Or better yet, there is a player they had ranked higher than 32 and is available. That’s the whole reason for all the trades they made. Because they have so many needs.

If there are several players the Steelers have graded close together and still are available they could pull the trigger on a trade (doubtful) and it wouldn’t be for just one extra pick.

It’s interesting, Franchise QB who hasn’t had one snap yet, developing WR with ANOTHER QB to synch with. You name 3 Defensive players on that squad. How many are on their rookie contracts? Their D was no where near what PIT had. You also indicate we need NOW several players including QB and WR. Huh? Ben and Rudolph are signed for 2021. I’d rather have both than Lawrence, a rookie. Signing JuJu this year takes WR off the board as a need. There is no TE in the draft that will replace Ebron this year. Why waste a pick on one until you have the needs are addressed RB, OT and ILB.

Jax playoff win (against PIT) was with a completely different roster, different coach, etc. It’s funny how Tomlin Koolaid is mentioned because of disappointment. Even when PIT won a SB and other playoff games, even cumulatively building Top 5 offenses and defenses...there are still negatives. Hell, if PIT was to win the SB this year there would still be naysayers complaining about whatever they are disappointed with.

 

[Steeltime]

All points of conviction. However, just respectfully agree to disagree several of them.

You just commented that OL, QB, CB are needs for Jax. If they see a OL or CB they coveted ranked higher than 24, why wouldn’t they trade up for the player? Or better yet, there is a player they had ranked higher than 32 and is available. That’s the whole reason for all the trades they made. Because they have so many needs.

It hurts to say this, but reality check: The Steelers have as many needs as the Jags, and vice-versa. Neither is in a position to be giving up picks in the first 3 rounds (pick 65 is pretty much equivalent to end of second round any way). The OL pool is deep. Jax can get their OT at 25, or 33, or 45. No reason to move up.

If there are several players the Steelers have graded close together and still are available they could pull the trigger on a trade (doubtful) and it wouldn’t be for just one extra pick.

In the real world, teams don't offer tons of picks to move up 9 spots from 33 to 24. They don't. If for some reason you have yet to explain the Jags want to move to 24 for some incredible player the Steelers don't want, though the teams have a lot of the same needs, the Steelers probably get pick 97, as I noted with reference to the draft value.

You dispute the draft value chart because draft slot salary values, okay, sure - but you offer literally no evidence to support your claims about the value of moving from 33 to 24. Nothing. So the draft value chart you dispute >>>> nothing.

It’s interesting, Franchise QB who hasn’t had one snap yet, developing WR with ANOTHER QB to synch with. You name 3 Defensive players on that squad. How many are on their rookie contracts? Their D was no where near what PIT had. You also indicate we need NOW several players including QB and WR. Huh? Ben and Rudolph are signed for 2021. I’d rather have both than Lawrence, a rookie.

You are the only human being on earth who would make that choice, Ike.

Seriously, Trevor Lawrence on a rookie contract vs. 39-old Ben at $23 million for one season and Mason Rudolph in the last year of his rookie contract?

Signing JuJu this year takes WR off the board as a need. There is no TE in the draft that will replace Ebron this year. Why waste a pick on one until you have the needs are addressed RB, OT and ILB.

So the TE position is terrible and the draft upgrades not promising. I agree, but it is an undeniable fact that the TE position for the Steelers right now is bad. Ebron can't block but at least he drops a bunch of passes.

Don't find that to be a good thing.

And the WR issue is not "solved."

Jax playoff win (against PIT) was with a completely different roster, different coach, etc. It’s funny how Tomlin Koolaid is mentioned because of disappointment. Even when PIT won a SB and other playoff games, even cumulatively building Top 5 offenses and defenses...there are still negatives. Hell, if PIT was to win the SB this year there would still be naysayers complaining about whatever they are disappointed with.

Yes, I have complained bitterly about all the SB victories with a HOF quarterback in his prime over the past 10 years. You bet.

You are unable to admit that Jax ******* BEAT the Steelers in the playoffs in the 2016 season, tore that roster down to the nub, and are re-building, while the Steelers are supposedly going to make a "last run" with the same QB, RG, RDE, LDE and after just losing that LT.

The 2016 team had a vastly better RB and WR than this team will. It had Shazier at ILB. And it lost to a pretty mediocre Jags team that has been torn down and is being rebuilt.

I think the 2021 Steelers are the 2013 Steelers, "trying to make a final run." The 2013 team was old on defense with Ike, Troy, Kiesel and Woodley on the decline. But it had a 31-year old HOF QB, an excellent 31-year old TE, a 25-year old WR who was the best in the business, an exciting rookie RB, a young and improving offensive line with 3 starters 25 or younger.

And it was a mediocre team that went 8-8.

Switch the offense and defense issues around and you get the 2021 Steelers. An aging offensive line, no RB, a middling WR corps, and an older, immobile QB. The defense is still damn good - needs some help at CB, OLB but still good. But the idea that this team is going to make a "final run" ignores the 1-5 finish, the departures, the cap issues, and the limited draft resources.

 

[stillwright]

All points of conviction. However, I just respectfully agree to disagree several of them.

You just commented that OL, QB, CB are needs for Jax. If they see a OL or CB they coveted ranked higher than 24, why wouldn’t they trade up for the player? Or better yet, there is a player they had ranked higher than 32 and is available. That’s the whole reason for all the trades they made. Because they have so many needs.

If there are several players the Steelers have graded close together and still are available they could pull the trigger on a trade (doubtful) and it wouldn’t be for just one extra pick.

It’s interesting, Franchise QB who hasn’t had one snap yet, developing WR with ANOTHER QB to synch with. You name 3 Defensive players on that squad. How many are on their rookie contracts? Their D was no where near what PIT had. You also indicate we need NOW several players including QB and WR. Huh? Ben and Rudolph are signed for 2021. I’d rather have both than Lawrence, a rookie. Signing JuJu this year takes WR off the board as a need. There is no TE in the draft that will replace Ebron this year. Why waste a pick on one until you have the needs are addressed RB, OT and ILB.

Jax playoff win (against PIT) was with a completely different roster, different coach, etc. It’s funny how Tomlin Koolaid is mentioned because of disappointment. Even when PIT won a SB and other playoff games, even cumulatively building Top 5 offenses and defenses...there are still negatives. Hell, if PIT was to win the SB this year there would still be naysayers complaining about whatever they are disappointed with.

Really? Ben/Mason over Lawrence...ummm. OK.

 

[Stryker]

We are never trading out of the 1st round with the 5yr option rule in effect.

 

[Ike Kelly]

It hurts to say this, but reality check: The Steelers have as many needs as the Jags, and vice-versa. Neither is in a position to be giving up picks in the first 3 rounds (pick 65 is pretty much equivalent to end of second round any way). The OL pool is deep. Jax can get their OT at 25, or 33, or 45. No reason to move up.

In the real world, teams don't offer tons of picks to move up 9 spots from 33 to 24. They don't. If for some reason you have yet to explain the Jags want to move to 24 for some incredible player the Steelers don't want, though the teams have a lot of the same needs, the Steelers probably get pick 97, as I noted with reference to the draft value.

You dispute the draft value chart because draft slot salary values, okay, sure - but you offer literally no evidence to support your claims about the value of moving from 33 to 24. Nothing. So the draft value chart you dispute >>>> nothing.



You are the only human being on earth who would make that choice, Ike.

Seriously, Trevor Lawrence on a rookie contract vs. 39-old Ben at $23 million for one season and Mason Rudolph in the last year of his rookie contract?



So the TE position is terrible and the draft upgrades not promising. I agree, but it is an undeniable fact that the TE position for the Steelers right now is bad. Ebron can't block but at least he drops a bunch of passes.

Don't find that to be a good thing.

And the WR issue is not "solved."



Yes, I have complained bitterly about all the SB victories with a HOF quarterback in his prime over the past 10 years. You bet.

You are unable to admit that Jax ******* BEAT the Steelers in the playoffs in the 2016 season, tore that roster down to the nub, and are re-building, while the Steelers are supposedly going to make a "last run" with the same QB, RG, RDE, LDE and after just losing that LT.

The 2016 team had a vastly better RB and WR than this team will. It had Shazier at ILB. And it lost to a pretty mediocre Jags team that has been torn down and is being rebuilt.

I think the 2021 Steelers are the 2013 Steelers, "trying to make a final run." The 2013 team was old on defense with Ike, Troy, Kiesel and Woodley on the decline. But it had a 31-year old HOF QB, an excellent 31-year old TE, a 25-year old WR who was the best in the business, an exciting rookie RB, a young and improving offensive line with 3 starters 25 or younger.

And it was a mediocre team that went 8-8.

Switch the offense and defense issues around and you get the 2021 Steelers. An aging offensive line, no RB, a middling WR corps, and an older, immobile QB. The defense is still damn good - needs some help at CB, OLB but still good. But the idea that this team is going to make a "final run" ignores the 1-5 finish, the departures, the cap issues, and the limited draft resources.

Reality check? Look in the mirror, all teams, ALL of them have needs in 2020. KC who was in the SB needs 2 starting OTs. The League and NFLPA collectively bargained to REDUCE the 2021 cap (unprecedented 1st for free agency) because of COVID.

In the real world? You can go back to 2018 where BAL traded their 2nd round (52nd overall), 4th round (125th overall) and their 2019 2nd round pick to PHI to move up to 32 to get Jackson and a 2018 4th rounder.

How about 2019? SEA traded their 1st round (21st overall) to GB for their 1st round pick (30th overall), and two 4th round picks (114th overall) and (118th overall). On top of that, SEA then traded the 30th overall to NYG for their 2nd round (37th overall), 4th round (132nd overall) and 5th round pick (142nd overall).

One more? BAL traded their 1st round (22nd overall) to PHI for their 1st rounder (25th overall), 4th round (127th overall) and 6th round (197th overall).

Even last year you had MIN trading their 1st rounder (25th overall) to SF for their 1st (31st overall), 4th (117th overall) and 5th (176th overall). All of those 9 selection or less difference. That’s three instances in three years. is this enough evidence? So it happens more frequently than you think.

My Ben/Rudolph over Lawrence analogy is for 2021, not beyond. You emphasized needs NOW, which included QB. In 2021, I would definitely want Ben over Lawrence, who hasn’t played one friggin snap against NFL defenses, will have new coaches, including a rookie head coach, and a new offense to learn. So you advise me, rationally (without the narratives), to play for a championship this year, you are more comfortable starting a rookie over a 16 year vet? Or even a 3 year player with a winning record?

You are damn right JAX beat them. It still leaves an acid taste in my mouth. What pissed me off more was how they lost. The defense was built on stopping the run, force the pass and they couldn’t stop Fournette. For whatever reason, adjustments, coaching or maybe players not executing lost that game. That is a fact.

Another fact is JAX has won 12 games since. Sure they are rebuilding.....again. Thats the difference with the dime/dozen franchises. They ”rebuild” win some games make playoffs, then rebuild again. PIT franchise hasn’t/doesn’t done/do that, they go in each year attempting to win a championship. That model works, they have the SB trophies to prove it. If they followed the “rebuild” philosophy, then you would have gotten your wish years ago and Tomlin and front office would be gone, with chance that the franchise would be like those other dime/dozen ones rebuilding every three years.

One more thing, the coaches and FO wont admit it, but that BS scheduling conflict because of COVID was the culprit for the December slide. No team has had to play 3 games in 12 days with only two days off. If that doesn’t happen, I think the team would have made it to the AFCC against KC. I blame Hairball’s tactics, but most importantly it’s on Goodell. Because neither BAL or TEN was fined other than the token $ figure. This commissioner has his favorites and its BS. One thing I’ll say about Art2 is he doesn’t have Dan’s confrontation ”to resolve” attributes.

 

[slashsteel]

Some good points all around with this debate. I think Steelers could get two extra picks trading down. Just depends on who falls. To win now I would take Ben and Lawrence next year. I just don't think the Steelers have done enough to give Ben a fighting chance. We will see what happens with the draft and after. Right now the roster is shakier than I have seen it in some time.

 

[SteelerSask2]

I'd say if you want to rebuild the line a trade down would be a good move. I agree with Slash. It has not been a good off season.

 

[21STEELERS21]

We traded out of the first to acquire Minkah.

I could see a scenario where all 3 top rb's are on the board at 24 and the Steelers feel comfortable they could get 1 of them early in the second, so why not get another player with a top pick. It doesn't necessarily need to be a trade with Jags. Jets, Atlanta, etc... have pics that would work.

 

[Steeltime]

We traded out of the first to acquire Minkah.

I could see a scenario where all 3 top rb's are on the board at 24 and the Steelers feel comfortable they could get 1 of them early in the second, so why not get another player with a top pick. It doesn't necessarily need to be a trade with Jags. Jets, Atlanta, etc... have pics that would work.

Like what? Give us an example of a trade that would work.

The tactic of saying, "Oh, get the LT with pick 24 and then move up in the 2nd to get Williams, it can happen" is great. Wonderful. Message boards allow us to explain HOW that would be done.

Specifically, if the Steelers want Harris at pick 35, for example, and he is there, then they would need to give Atlanta pick 55 and their third in this draft, or next year's second.

If they give up the third, pick 87, then the team would then watch as 91 players are drafted before they get their next selection. Given the substantial team needs, the depth of this draft and the relative affordability of draft picks, giving up selections makes no sense. Getting more selections? Sign me up.

 

[SteelerSask2]

We traded out of the first to acquire Minkah.

I could see a scenario where all 3 top rb's are on the board at 24 and the Steelers feel comfortable they could get 1 of them early in the second, so why not get another player with a top pick. It doesn't necessarily need to be a trade with Jags. Jets, Atlanta, etc... have pics that would work.

That worked out rather well because of two things:
Fitzpatrick is at least a pro bowl talent if not more. The Steelers managed to win enough games to make it a middle of round pick. If that would have been a top ten pick with the way they used him last year, it would have been a disaster. You could get a second rounder or later to do what they asked of Fitzpatrick last year.

 

[Steeltime]

In the real world? You can go back to 2018 where BAL traded their 2nd round (52nd overall), 4th round (125th overall) and their 2019 2nd round pick to PHI to move up to 32 to get Jackson and a 2018 4th rounder.

How about 2019? SEA traded their 1st round (21st overall) to GB for their 1st round pick (30th overall), and two 4th round picks (114th overall) and (118th overall). On top of that, SEA then traded the 30th overall to NYG for their 2nd round (37th overall), 4th round (132nd overall) and 5th round pick (142nd overall).

One more? BAL traded their 1st round (22nd overall) to PHI for their 1st rounder (25th overall), 4th round (127th overall) and 6th round (197th overall).

Even last year you had MIN trading their 1st rounder (25th overall) to SF for their 1st (31st overall), 4th (117th overall) and 5th (176th overall). All of those 9 selection or less difference. That’s three instances in three years. is this enough evidence? So it happens more frequently than you think.

The most similar deal is the Minnesota trade, which got the team a 4th and a 5th to move 6 spots down, not nine, but whatever. You obviously missed my point completely. I mean totally. People - you included - apparently think the Steelers would get some significant return from Jacksonville for the 33 to 24 move.

So you would be okay with the Steelers dropping from 24 to 33 to get maybe a 4th or a 5th?

My Ben/Rudolph over Lawrence analogy is for 2021, not beyond. You emphasized needs NOW, which included QB. In 2021, I would definitely want Ben over Lawrence, who hasn’t played one friggin snap against NFL defenses, will have new coaches, including a rookie head coach, and a new offense to learn. So you advise me, rationally (without the narratives), to play for a championship this year, you are more comfortable starting a rookie over a 16 year vet? Or even a 3 year player with a winning record?

If you think this team is going to "compete for a championship" this season, you are simply not being credible. I thought I had made very clear my view that this team was good, sometimes quite good, last season but obviously flawed as their 1-5 finish showed.

They have since lost a lot of players. A good team, with some flaws, that loses key starters at important positions (LT, C, RB, OLB, CB) is no longer a good team, just a team with the same flaws.

You are damn right JAX beat them. It still leaves an acid taste in my mouth. What pissed me off more was how they lost. The defense was built on stopping the run, force the pass and they couldn’t stop Fournette. For whatever reason, adjustments, coaching or maybe players not executing lost that game. That is a fact.

Another fact is JAX has won 12 games since. Sure they are rebuilding.....again. Thats the difference with the dime/dozen franchises. They ”rebuild” win some games make playoffs, then rebuild again. PIT franchise hasn’t/doesn’t done/do that, they go in each year attempting to win a championship. That model works, they have the SB trophies to prove it.

I guess I am going to be the first to tell you this ... the team competed and won with a HOF QB. That QB is slowing down, a lot. He is not the same as he was in 2008. The running game is not good. The offensive line is not good. The pass rush suffered a loss with the Dupree departure.

What will the Steelers look like this season? Maybe 9-8 at best, more likely 8-9. Tougher schedule, Ben a year older, lots of players lost, a mediocre coach, no room in the budget for FA's.

2022? Yikes.

If they followed the “rebuild” philosophy, then you would have gotten your wish years ago and Tomlin and front office would be gone, with chance that the franchise would be like those other dime/dozen ones rebuilding every three years.

No, if the team got rid of Tomlin four years ago, and hired a good young coach (Sean McVay, Sean McDermott come to mind), they are a better team. I am mystified as to why Steelers fans think Mike Tomlin gets the most out of a team.

He gets as much as the team gives. He was outcoached this past January by a guy who was not present.

Also, every franchise in history has times when it needs to rebuild. The Yankees - the most successful franchise in American sports history - won nothing between 1965 and 1975. The Boston Celtics - another incredibly successful franchise - did nothing between 1992 and 2003. It happens.

Generally, the rebuilds occur when a very good team gets old and loses its great players. Yankees and Mantle, Berra, Howard, Ford, etc. Celtics and Bird, McHale, Parrish.

Steelers and Troy, Harrison, Bettis, now Ben.

One more thing, the coaches and FO wont admit it, but that BS scheduling conflict because of COVID was the culprit for the December slide. No team has had to play 3 games in 12 days with only two days off. If that doesn’t happen, I think the team would have made it to the AFCC against KC. I blame Hairball’s tactics, but most importantly it’s on Goodell. Because neither BAL or TEN was fined other than the token $ figure. This commissioner has his favorites and its BS. One thing I’ll say about Art2 is he doesn’t have Dan’s confrontation ”to resolve” attributes.

Okay. But on January 10, 2021, a lot of Steelers had two weeks off before that game. Did not seem to help.

 

[GMC]

Steelers are awesomeness squared. Cubed. Nobody gooder. Feel better?



So keep drinking the Tomlin Kool-Aid if it makes you feel better. I wish this Steeler team was stocked with excellent young talent and had a slew of early picks in a good draft class.

Says the guy who gets his panties in a wad when one doesn't drink his kool-aid. Tomlin doesn't run the team (personally can't wait until he's gone), so not sure what that or any of the other hyperbole you typed has to do with me stating I'd rather they not follow the lead of team that rebuilds every few years, has a lifetime losing record and seven playoff wins in 25 years. The team has issues, but tanking to draft higher is not their MO and frankly I wouldn't be a fan if it was. I don't follow anyone other than the Steelers anymore, so you'll have to let me know how your jags manage this year.