Is it time to bench Jarvis Jones?

[Coach]

That was back when 5 years later, we had NO ONE from the 2008 and 2009 drafts left on the team. I think Hood was the last to go.

2008 was poop. 2009 had some decent players. Wallace, Urbik and Lewis.

While Colbert made the right move to let Wallace walk in free agency, it was a very good pick by the Steelers. His blunder was letting Lewis escape in free agency, and not keeping Urbik. Urbik was about as good as Willie Colon, who for some reason was given an extension contract. Had we kept Urbik ( He started 4 years on Buffalo ) we have 5-6 million extra in cap space to spend on another player.

 

[Litos]

But what you don't see, you silly Goose, is that Chicharron, has the perfect head size. Compared to every linebacker in the hall of fame, his dome size falls right in the median range. How can that not count for 5 or 6 sacks before he even sees the field?

Hahaha chicharron is a word in Spanish that means fried fat (like pork's)
Chickillo (chiquillo) means little kid

 

[SteelerAl]

Hey Insaniti,

So I decided to compare Jarvis Jones, a player you think is an average NFL starter to the rest of the Linebackers in the NFL in terms of Sacks, Tackles, and pass defense.

Here's where he rates:


2.0 sacks. 64 linebackers have more! And he's tied with 15 others.

25 tackles. 128 linebackers have more. And he's tied with 8 other players.

Passes defended: Jones has one pass defended ( his interception ). 81 other linebackers have more passes defended and he's tied with 59 other linebackers that have 1.

Conclusion, Jones is below average as a pass rusher, way below average as a tackler, and way below average as a pass defense. Average NFL starter you say? He's rotated out from a 37-year-old player!

If you want to hang your hat that he's good defending the edge ( I think he's easily blocked more often than not watch the games! ) then go ahead and try to quantify the other linebackers are not as good as Jones is in this department.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/b...FL&year=season_2015&sort=130&timeframe=ToDate

I'll say it again. A moron using stats to "prove" his argument is still a moron. You know like when someone uses stats to show us that DeAngelo Williams is as good as - if not better than - Bell. When that same moron can't see that Bell's carries came overwhelmingly with Vick / Jones at QB and DWill's came with Ben at QB.

 

[Coach]

Hey Insaniti,

So I decided to compare Jarvis Jones, a player you think is an average NFL starter to the rest of the Linebackers in the NFL in terms of Sacks, Tackles, and pass defense.

Here's where he rates:


2.0 sacks. 64 linebackers have more! And he's tied with 15 others.

25 tackles. 128 linebackers have more. And he's tied with 8 other players.

Passes defended: Jones has one pass defended ( his interception ). 81 other linebackers have more passes defended and he's tied with 59 other linebackers that have 1.

Conclusion, Jones is below average as a pass rusher, way below average as a tackler, and way below average as a pass defense. Average NFL starter you say? He's rotated out from a 37-year-old player!

If you want to hang your hat that he's good defending the edge ( I think he's easily blocked more often than not watch the games! ) then go ahead and try to quantify the other linebackers are not as good as Jones is in this department.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/by...meframe=ToDate

I'll say it again. A moron using stats to "prove" his argument is still a moron. You know like when someone uses stats to show us that DeAngelo Williams is as good as - if not better than - Bell. When that same moron can't see that Bell's carries came overwhelmingly with Vick / Jones at QB and DWill's came with Ben at QB.

Al,

If you want to take out the Vick games. Willaims is doing pretty well, and he's not even in this thread and we are talking defense! If Heyward was out, then you could try to excuse Jones poor play. Moving back to the point.

I listed three parts of being a linebacker. Pass Rush, Tackling and pass defense. The fact that Jones rates so low just underscored the obvious. He's not even average. He's our slowest LB, worst LB in pass coverage and worst tackling LB. If you want to look at his snap count and do the divisional maths, go for it. You'll see. I say the fact that he's a part-time player tells you the story.

In almost all cases for linebackers, the best ones produce. Jones clearly is not. Primary to a 3-4 defense is the pass rush, here Jones is an epic fail. Secondary and also important is run defense ,tackling and pass coverage. He's pretty bad here too.

If not for Blake, Jones is the whipping boy for sure, but because he's easily blocked and seldom has his name called, fans forget about him when we are winning.

If I have video access and editing ability, I could take out stats and let the video show how he gets it handed to him more often than not.

 

[SteelerAl]

Al,

If you want to take out the Vick games. Willaims is doing pretty well, and he's not even in this thread and we are talking defense! If Heyward was out, then you could try to excuse Jones poor play. Moving back to the point.

WTF are you talking about? The point is that Bell was running into a stacked box and DWill has not had to do so --- thus the stats need context and don't tell nearly the whole story by themselves. One day you'll get there...

He's not even average. He's our slowest LB, worst LB in pass coverage and worst tackling LB. If you want to look at his snap count and do the divisional maths, go for it. You'll see. I say the fact that he's a part-time player tells you the story.

In almost all cases for linebackers, the best ones produce. Jones clearly is not. Primary to a 3-4 defense is the pass rush, here Jones is an epic fail. Secondary and also important is run defense ,tackling and pass coverage. He's pretty bad here too.

Thanks for posting the exact same argument for the 5th or 6th time in this thread --- repetition does not make it any more valid.

If I have video access and editing ability, I could take out stats and let the video show how he gets it handed to him more often than not.

Why don't you go work on that and give the board a break from your pointless, repetitive arguments for a few days? As I tried to make clear with my first post in this thread, your only interest is in beating us over the head with your anti-Jarvis, pro-Chickillo agenda and it's certainly not to having a useful back-and-forth discussion that leaves anyone better off afterwards.

 

[tdub88]

Hahaha chicharron is a word in Spanish that means fried fat (like pork's)
Chickillo (chiquillo) means little kid

I know, part of the joke. As if this thread wasn't absurd enough......

 

[tdub88]

Hey Insaniti,

So I decided to compare Jarvis Jones, a player you think is an average NFL starter to the rest of the Linebackers in the NFL in terms of Sacks, Tackles, and pass defense.

Here's where he rates:


2.0 sacks. 64 linebackers have more! And he's tied with 15 others.

25 tackles. 128 linebackers have more. And he's tied with 8 other players.

Passes defended: Jones has one pass defended ( his interception ). 81 other linebackers have more passes defended and he's tied with 59 other linebackers that have 1.
.

For this to be valid you will have to tell us exactly how many snaps each of those 192 line backers played compared to Jarvis.

Your stats are meaningless.

 

[Coach]

For this to be valid you will have to tell us exactly how many snaps each of those 192 line backers played compared to Jarvis.

Your stats are meaningless.

Are you saying Tomlin should play Jones more and his misjudging his talent level and ability to help the defense and special teams? HAHA!

Many OLB's and ILB in 4-3 have more sacks...and that is harder because they are not getting as many pass rush attempts as Jones is.

Look- show me one stat, ANY that has Jones on top and maybe then, you might have a very small point.

The reason I'm using stats is they are neutral. I'm not cherry picking one or two obscure pieces of data, I'm using the three most important one to judge a linebacker.

Until then Jones is a part-time player, well behind his peers starting in the NFL. You just lack the stones to say I am correct, or just can't accept the facts...

END.

 

[insaniti]

Hey Insaniti,

So I decided to compare Jarvis Jones, a player you think is an average NFL starter to the rest of the Linebackers in the NFL in terms of Sacks, Tackles, and pass defense.

Here's where he rates:


2.0 sacks. 64 linebackers have more! And he's tied with 15 others.

25 tackles. 128 linebackers have more. And he's tied with 8 other players.

Passes defended: Jones has one pass defended ( his interception ). 81 other linebackers have more passes defended and he's tied with 59 other linebackers that have 1.

Conclusion, Jones is below average as a pass rusher, way below average as a tackler, and way below average as a pass defense. Average NFL starter you say? He's rotated out from a 37-year-old player!

If you want to hang your hat that he's good defending the edge ( I think he's easily blocked more often than not watch the games! ) then go ahead and try to quantify the other linebackers are not as good as Jones is in this department.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/stats/b...FL&year=season_2015&sort=130&timeframe=ToDate

Go ahead and ignore the links I posted with VISUAL proof of the things that Jones does well. Comparing Jones STATS to other LBer stats is pointless, you can't compare different defensive philosophies, surrounding players, completely different situations, opponents, etc. If you want to try and use stats as your argument, you have to use THIS years stats against OUR LBers which I already showed you. And they are ALL very low in production in comparison to each other. Technically NONE of our OLBers are "starters" as they ALL are in rotation with each other. Another link that I posted and you completely ignored. Keep puffing your chest out and grabbing all these stats while ignoring everything else. It's cool, you say you have nothing against Jones, but you clearly do.

Are you saying Tomlin should play Jones more and his misjudging his talent level and ability to help the defense and special teams? HAHA!

Many OLB's and ILB in 4-3 have more sacks...and that is harder because they are not getting as many pass rush attempts as Jones is.

Look- show me one stat, ANY that has Jones on top and maybe then, you might have a very small point.

The reason I'm using stats is they are neutral. I'm not cherry picking one or two obscure pieces of data, I'm using the three most important one to judge a linebacker.

Until then Jones is a part-time player, well behind his peers starting in the NFL. You just lack the stones to say I am correct, or just can't accept the facts...

END.

There you are begging for stats again, you are in fact cherry picking stats, it's what you do, it's all you've ever done. You never admit to being wrong (polamalu) but spout off like a mad man when you guess right. You're talking about other posters not having the stones...

You are still the same joke that you've always been. You've been a running joke in this board for as long as I can remember, even during the time you went "missing"...

I'm done with you, since you refuse to acknowledge what I've posted. No one here is claiming he's a special talent, that he is the next great Steelers LBer, he's an average starter, and right now, he is not hurting the team like you think he is.

 

[Coach]

You are weak. Stand on the topic at hand. Aw, do my facts ruffle your feathers? Jones is not productive, slow, weak, and injury prone. A bad 1st round pick, and this was pick #17!

If you want to go back to 2003, Troy had a poor rookie year, but by his 3rd year, it was clear he was a force. See how easy that was?

This is Jones third year. He's poor. He's not helping the team and plays fewer snaps now.

Since you are incapable of debate, I suggest you place me on ignore. My hunch is you can't or won't.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

You will THINK you've successfully argued that Jones is the worst starting OLB in blah blah blah blah...but you've only convinced yourself of such nonsense.3

NO, Im convinced too.


Also your rating system makes absolutely no sense, aside from butchering Woodley's name, TWICE in four words.. Nobody cares
.you list him as someone passed his prime? He was never passed his prime when he was here. He got injured a lot and couldn't stay healthy.

He was fat and obviously didn't work at it. (see deebo on FB)

At that point we had too much money tied up in LOLBers to keep both him and Worilds.

As for where I rank Jones, He's an average NFL starter. He does a lot of things well that you just won't give him credit for.

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2015/12/steelers-film-room-jarvis-jones-vs-seahawks/

There's some film of him playing pretty well against Seattle even tho his stat sheet listed 1 assisted tackle and that's it.

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2015/11/steelers-film-room-jarvis-jones-vs-raiders/

Here is vs the Raiders just pushing back the OT consistently and getting pressure, again a game his stat line was 1 tackle

Almost doesn't really do it for me, not in this defense

He's not putting up monster stats,

He isn't putting up average stats

but he is playing well and no where near a liability or the worst starting OLB we've had, .

Please name one who he is better than since say 1994

 

[obxsteeler]

2008 was poop. 2009 had some decent players. Wallace, Urbik and Lewis.

While Colbert made the right move to let Wallace walk in free agency, it was a very good pick by the Steelers. His blunder was letting Lewis escape in free agency, and not keeping Urbik. Urbik was about as good as Willie Colon, who for some reason was given an extension contract. Had we kept Urbik ( He started 4 years on Buffalo ) we have 5-6 million extra in cap space to spend on another player.

Colon was a SB starter and I believe is still playing while Urbik was mediocre at Buffalo and is long gone. Lewis kind of proved he was not worth what he was asking and would have used up that cap space. So far as I can see Colbert has made very few blunders that have cost us an impact player.

 

[Stryker]

Please name one who he is better than since say 1994

Alonzo Jackson ...

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

starter please..

 

[obxsteeler]

starter please..

Jones is not a starter. He started 8 games as a rookie replacing Worilds and Woodley when they were injured. He started 3 games his second year before dislocating a wrist and he has platooned this year. So you need to match his stats with a player with the equivalent of about 15 starts. Try that with either past Steelers or the other 150 NFL linebackers. I'd say the closest Steeler match was Worilds in his first 3 years.

 

[Coryea]

Stats or no stats, the dude was a wasted pick, just watch him, he's barely noticeable when he's in the game. Harrison is 37 and still a much better player than Jones.

 

[Coach]

Please name one who he is better than since say 1994

Names, stats or play does not matter to Insaniti!

He's won't be able to do this because his football acumen is about as good as a pop warner player, or he's too stubborn to admit the obvious.

 

[insaniti]

Names, stats or play does not matter to Insaniti!

He's won't be able to do this because his football acumen is about as good as a pop warner player, or he's too stubborn to admit the obvious.

I was done with you until you opened your pathetic little mouth again, I gave you plenty of football acumen that you flat out ignored. You came back with more stats that prove absolutely nothing. I showed you that ALL our OLB stats are relatively even across the board, but Jones is the only one that sucks in your mind.

You can try to belittle me all you want, but everyone who's been here for longer than a few years knows who you are, knows what you are, and laughs at you. You called Troy Polamalu a bust because his head was too big...that's all anyone needs to know about "Coach".

 

[Steelerfan]

Hahaha chicharron is a word in Spanish that means fried fat (like pork's)
Chickillo (chiquillo) means little kid

Hey....the server for this message board is in the U.S. Speak English or get the hell out.

 

[Coach]

I was done with you until you opened your pathetic little mouth again, I gave you plenty of football acumen that you flat out ignored. You came back with more stats that prove absolutely nothing. I showed you that ALL our OLB stats are relatively even across the board, but Jones is the only one that sucks in your mind.

No, sir, you did not. You only said Jones does a good job sealing the edge to which I replied he's average there too, and show me where the other starting LB's can't do as well or better.

As for Stats, Jones is the bottom of the barrel in just about all of them. I did see Jones number a few times vs. Denver. He was either standing near a pile or getting blocked.

In 34 games played, Jones has but five career sacks. Five sacks as a the starting OLB in 16 game season is pretty poor in our system!

 

[mdk2]

No, sir, you did not. You only said Jones does a good job sealing the edge to which I replied he's average there too, and show me where the other starting LB's can't do as well or better.

As for Stats, Jones is the bottom of the barrel in just about all of them. I did see Jones number a few times vs. Denver. He was either standing near a pile or getting blocked.

In 34 games played, Jones has but five career sacks. Five sacks as a the starting OLB in 16 game season is pretty poor in our system!

There is no solution for Jarvis this season. James is the only answer and he gets a good amount of snaps.
Chickillo as the solution is laughable, he's not the answer.

 

[Coach]

There is no solution for Jarvis this season. James is the only answer and he gets a good amount of snaps.
Chickillo as the solution is laughable, he's not the answer.

Where did I ever say he was the answer? I didn't. My suggestion was Chickillo was worth a look as Jones is doing next to nothing.

As for Tomlin, he cut Howard Jones. Remember him? In one season on Tampa, Howard Jones has five sacks, equaling Jarvis 3 year career total. OUCH.

I'm sure many here felt Howard wasn't very good too. But when he had a chance to play....he's producing!

http://www.nfl.com/player/howardjones/2550435/profile

 

[POP]

Where did I ever say he was the answer? I didn't. My suggestion was Chickillo was worth a look as Jones is doing next to nothing.

As for Tomlin, he cut Howard Jones. Remember him? In one season on Tampa, Howard Jones has five sacks, equaling Jarvis 3 year career total. OUCH.

I'm sure many here felt Howard wasn't very good too. But when he had a chance to play....he's producing!

http://www.nfl.com/player/howardjones/2550435/profile

Producing? That doesn't matter in the Tomlin scheme, look at Blake. Was Howard kissing Tomlin's ring? If not, no dice. See Boink.

 

[mdk2]

Where did I ever say he was the answer? I didn't. My suggestion was Chickillo was worth a look as Jones is doing next to nothing.

As for Tomlin, he cut Howard Jones. Remember him? In one season on Tampa, Howard Jones has five sacks, equaling Jarvis 3 year career total. OUCH.

I'm sure many here felt Howard wasn't very good too. But when he had a chance to play....he's producing!

http://www.nfl.com/player/howardjones/2550435/profile

I'd like to see the amount of coaches who would give an undrafted guy a position over a 1st round daft pick especially when the 1st rounder only played one full season with limited snaps. Not to mention, Howard is playing out of position at 3-4 OLB, way undersized. You think Jarvis sucks against the run? Howard would get swallowed up every time.

 

[Coach]

I'd like to see the amount of coaches who would give an undrafted guy a position over a 1st round daft pick especially when the 1st rounder only played one full season with limited snaps. Not to mention, Howard is playing out of position at 3-4 OLB, way undersized. You think Jarvis sucks against the run? Howard would get swallowed up every time.

I think Howard is a better pass rusher in comparison to Jarvis. Had we kept Howard the best coaching move would be to play him over Jarvis on obvious passing downs.

Let's not act like Jarvis is good vs the run. He's not.

I end here. A cut Steeler is better pass rusher. Give someone else a try.