Is it time to bench Jarvis Jones?
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Try these apples.
In the first 12 games ( I do not have data on the last game ) Jones missed 10 tackles.
In the last seven games played, he made 9 tackles and six of those were assisted tackles, meaning he only had 3 solo tackles.
When a player makes next to no plays, and almost misses more than he converts in terms of tackles....
FACTS.
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I didn't see it that way. Although you may be technically correct (headline asked question but really post had one sided view, not a question), it's really a matter of semantics and an opinion, which is what message boards are mostly about. I had no problem with it, but I happen to totally agree that Jones is a proven bust and we should see what else we got at that position. However, IF JJ still gives us the best chance to win over others (Chick) then keep him in. But I have a tough time thinking that the collection of Harrison, Moats and Dupree are not ALL better than JJ. I would only put in JJ to give the others some rest.
no, but if you go through the Steelerdepot archives, you can find the article on Chickillo that sez he did almost nothing.
Whole heatedly agree. If it was like Moats and Dupree (who I'm not disappointed with his rookie season) blowing it up, I'd say bench him. He is making the odd play and he is a part of the rotation. I wouldn't renew the guys contract for a penny over vet minimum and wouldn't even bother with that probably. However, for what is on the roster at the moment, I don't see any point in benching him.
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OK, some of you think we should only deal in facts, not opinion (but opinions can be formed from facts, so....not sure). So be it.
Here are JJ's stats this season. I see ZERO uptick on any meaningful stats whatsoever. OLB is CRUCIAL to a successful D in our system, CRUCIAL.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8373/jarvis-jones
He has a paltry handful of tackles and a whopping TWO sacks.
That doesn't cut it, in this D.
Carlos Emmons was a virtual beast by comparison. JJ's #s are not just poor for mid-level 1st round pick; his #s stink for any starting OLB for the Steelers, period.
And Tomlin saying JJ's play is "solid" is beyond a joke. All he is doing is trying to cover up the fact that they made an awful decision on that 1st round draft pick.
Who else COULD we have drafted?
Eric Read
19 New York Giants Justin Pugh OT Syracuse
20 Chicago Bears Kyle Long OG Oregon
21 Cincinnati Bengals Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame
22 Atlanta Falcons Desmond Trufant CB Washington
23 Minnesota Vikings Sharrif Floyd DT Florida
24 Indianapolis Colts Bjoern Werner OLB Florida State
25 Minnesota Vikings Xavier Rhodes CB Florida State
26 Green Bay Packers Datone Jones DE UCLA
27 Houston Texans DeAndre Hopkins WR Clemson
28 Denver Broncos Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina
29 Minnesota Vikings Cordarrelle Patterson WR Tennessee
30 St. Louis Rams Alec Ogletree OLB Georgia
31 Dallas Cowboys Travis Frederick C Wisconsin
32 Baltimore Ravens Matt Elam FS Florida
Almost every pick in the 1st round after JJ would have been a better choice. Tomlin's claim that JJ has been "solid" is purely a lie.
Here are JJ's stats this season. I see ZERO uptick on any meaningful stats whatsoever. OLB is CRUCIAL to a successful D in our system, CRUCIAL.
http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/8373/jarvis-jones
He has a paltry handful of tackles and a whopping TWO sacks.
That doesn't cut it, in this D.
Carlos Emmons was a virtual beast by comparison. JJ's #s are not just poor for mid-level 1st round pick; his #s stink for any starting OLB for the Steelers, period.
And Tomlin saying JJ's play is "solid" is beyond a joke. All he is doing is trying to cover up the fact that they made an awful decision on that 1st round draft pick.
Who else COULD we have drafted?
Eric Read
19 New York Giants Justin Pugh OT Syracuse
20 Chicago Bears Kyle Long OG Oregon
21 Cincinnati Bengals Tyler Eifert TE Notre Dame
22 Atlanta Falcons Desmond Trufant CB Washington
23 Minnesota Vikings Sharrif Floyd DT Florida
24 Indianapolis Colts Bjoern Werner OLB Florida State
25 Minnesota Vikings Xavier Rhodes CB Florida State
26 Green Bay Packers Datone Jones DE UCLA
27 Houston Texans DeAndre Hopkins WR Clemson
28 Denver Broncos Sylvester Williams DT North Carolina
29 Minnesota Vikings Cordarrelle Patterson WR Tennessee
30 St. Louis Rams Alec Ogletree OLB Georgia
31 Dallas Cowboys Travis Frederick C Wisconsin
32 Baltimore Ravens Matt Elam FS Florida
Almost every pick in the 1st round after JJ would have been a better choice. Tomlin's claim that JJ has been "solid" is purely a lie.
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So what is your point? I don't really know one poster on this site that loved the JJ pick. So why would you list the people drafted after him? We are stuck with him as of now. Period. Any Coach thread will not change that fact. In fact all 100 plus Coach threads will not change it. I hate/hated the pick but I hate Coach's daily/weekly same old same old threads on the subject even more. Go figure.
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Tackles are useless stats for linebackers. Timdong makes a bazillion tackles ... Problem is they are downfield.
You must use the eye test and actually watch the games. Uncle Jarvis has made strides this year and while I'm no big fan of his I believe they have to pick up his option and splitting snaps might be his motivation.
You must use the eye test and actually watch the games. Uncle Jarvis has made strides this year and while I'm no big fan of his I believe they have to pick up his option and splitting snaps might be his motivation.
I think Allen should be thrown into the hat as well.
Im sorry. I don't see Jones doing a "nice job" much all year. I could care less about chickillo.
Ive been open minded. ive waited for him to show me something,, a splash,, anything. He doesn't ,, He hasn't. And in my opinion. He wont. He shows me no desire/ fire. He hasn't shown any progress being physically better than when he came in.
So go ahead and hate on coach for his chickillo love. But please,,,,, don't act as if Jarvis is setting the world on fire.
This is probably the worst case scenario. If he was playing well, it would be easy to pick up his option. If he stunk you could easily decline it. But he's just kinda there, and that scares me that they'll make an 8M+ mistake on him by picking it up cause "he's learning the system" or some other dumb nonsense speak.
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They do have another year to decide so save your worries awhile. And on occasion in the in the NFL players have made it in their 4th year.
Hopefully they have learned from the Jason Worilds experience. I predict that's what will happen, they will give him a fairly minimal offer and let him walk.
There is no argument to be made that Jarvis Jones is anything but a complete disappointment. That isn't the question. The question is if there is enough on the roster at this current moment to justify him not playing at all. Harrison cannot play an entire game anymore. If you want the best of what he has now, he needs to play about a 1/3- 1/2 of the game. So it is down to Moats and Dupree. You are not moving Dupree to the right. So I guess they could play Dupree for the entire game, move Moats (who lets face it, really isn't substantially better then Jones) and have him share the snaps with Harrison. I often don't agree with the coaches, but I will defer to them on this one.
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Chickillo has had maybe 20 snaps with the defense and I'm guessing there were times when the other team was running out the clock. This is not enough. Since Jones is all but invisible, I say give the kid a chance.
I love how Coach thinks he is winning an argument based on "I say give the guy a chance because some beat writers thought he looked good in camp drills on August 2nd against guys that are out of the NFL right now".
so Coach is Joel Bushbaum?
That isn't realistic. I have no idea what this guy is so lets give him a shot cause the other guy sucks. Like I said, I'm no Tomlin supporter, but he sees the real film and he knows these guys and more importantly he knows what they know about the defense. Sometimes you live with a guy who isn't a dynamic player because he at least knows where to line up, his assignment and won't **** it up for the guys who are dynamic. While I agree that is not good enough for that particular position, it doesn't mean I'd put in Chickillo to find out at this point. That is a camp battle.
Against the Bengals, Harrison played 40 defensive snaps and Jones played 27.
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Perhaps we have a difference of opinion between what constitutes a weak link for the defense. Jones is the least productive OLB In our system since.....perhaps the swtich to the 3-4 in the 1980's. I would guess Jones will finish the year with 2-4 sacks, and very few tackles.
He's very limited in terms of making plays. He's neither big, nor strong, nor fast. He's too slow to be developed in coverage. And can't add anything too special teams kick coverage. He misses a lot of tackles ( 10 ) and makes few ( just 9 total solo and assisted in the last 7 games )
Carlos Emmons who was a later round draft pick was noticeably better.
If our defense could find upgrades over Jarvis Jones and Antowan Blake, how much better would the defense be?
Significantly in my opinion. And the burn of it is most of us think there are better than Blake on the team. Yes--Chickillo is a bit of an unknown, but when you have the worst starter at OLB in perhaps the past 30 years, why not give some of the snaps to someone else?
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So you ae saying he's really a 2nd string player? I think Harrison should start. He's earned that honor
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100% all opinion. Earlier in the year, you were all about replacing Bud, he sucked, he was a bust, he wasn't doing anything production...well lets take a look at the numbers (since that's all you really care about). Last 7 games you say?
Bud Dupree - 8 total tackles, 6 solo. 1 sack.
Arthur Moats - 16 total tackles, 10 solo. 1.5 sacks.
James Harrison - 15 total tackles (7 coming in one game), 12 solo. 4 sacks (3 coming in one game).
Notice something here? low tackle numbers from ALL our outside linebackers, and teams are running towards our left side more often than the right. Lets just do this here...
Lawrence Timmons - 42 tackles, 27 solo. 1.5 sacks
Our defense has always been to funnel the tackles towards the middle LBer, the OLB is there to pressure the QB and set the edge. Considering teams run to our right side 65% of the time, they obviously see a weakness on that side of the field and our OLB are STILL not putting up earth shattering stats.
If our message board could find an upgrade over the self proclaimed "coach", how much better would the posting environment be?
Significantly in my opinion.