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Irving made a point?

I don't remember teams stacking the box vs Bell. If anything, his receiving skills usually meant teams played more nickel because if they stayed in their base, Bell was going to torch a LB.

Thing is, Bell is not really a great runner. He's effective with his style but he often leaves yards out there in the run game because he waits too long. That's why he rarely has long runs.

Conner is a better runner than Bell. But Bell is still the better overall player because he is so good as a receiver. Bell forces defenses to gameplan for him as a runner and receiver. He loosens coverage on the WRs. That's part of why there haven't been as many big pass plays this year. Conner isn't the receiving threat that Bell is, so defenses can keep guys back in deep coverage.

Conner is putting up great rushing numbers, but the offense would be more dangerous with Bell
 
Yet the Steelers score more, win more and gain more yards when Bell does not play and that is a huge sample not a game or two. Bell is not a threat to gain big yards, lacks the ability to wear down a defense like Conner does with his physical down hill style. Conner is the better fit and a better player who will only get better.
 
FAB802 said:
LOL. Conner earning, and taking over the starting job doesn't change how good Bell was while he was here. He's gone, and the Steelers will be just fine as long as Conner stays healthy. But calling the RB who was widely regarded as the best all around back in the game a bum is ridiculous.
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What would you call him then? Bum is as good as any other description. Maybe he wasn't talking about the the RB but Bell the person. **** Bell. He is a ******* Bum.
 
I'm not sure why it's so hard to comprehend, the offense is better without him, the numbers show it, score more and more yardage without him, and a big part of that sample size was before Connor got here.

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tapeANaspirin2it said:
I don't remember teams stacking the box vs Bell. If anything, his receiving skills usually meant teams played more nickel because if they stayed in their base, Bell was going to torch a LB.

Thing is, Bell is not really a great runner. He's effective with his style but he often leaves yards out there in the run game because he waits too long. That's why he rarely has long runs.

Conner is a better runner than Bell. But Bell is still the better overall player because he is so good as a receiver. Bell forces defenses to gameplan for him as a runner and receiver. He loosens coverage on the WRs. That's part of why there haven't been as many big pass plays this year. Conner isn't the receiving threat that Bell is, so defenses can keep guys back in deep coverage.

Conner is putting up great rushing numbers, but the offense would be more dangerous with Bell
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And by more dangerous with do you mean more yardage??? CONNOR averages near 8yards per game more than bell did................. And by more yardage do you mean more touch downs ????? CONNOR has 11 TDs to date and still season left, bell scored 7 all season last year................. AND by more dangerous do you mean AB speeding 100mph >???? CONNOR has that durring his season. So to surmise........... CONNER brings everything as much as BELL does and yet CONNER is here and participating.......WHAT has bell done for you????






Salute the nation
 
Again two different runners both solid at what they do.

Better outside runner -Bell
Better pass catcher - Bell but that gap is closing.
Better blocker - Bell but that gap is closing
Better red zone back -Conner
Better inside runner- Conner
Better at breaking tackles -Conner
Better team player -Bell (kidding hahahahaha)

Do not underestimate the importance of team chemistry.

In a year the Steelers in some form or fashion rid themselves of two drama queens and the results speak for themselves.

In the end it doesn't matter who the better back is,

as was mentioned Conner is the better back for the Steelers.
 
slashsteel said:
Again two different runners both solid at what they do.

Better outside runner -Bell
Better pass catcher - Bell but that gap is closing.
Better blocker - Bell but that gap is closing
Better red zone back -Conner
Better inside runner- Conner
Better at breaking tackles -Conner
Better team player -Bell (kidding hahahahaha)

Do not underestimate the importance of team chemistry.

In a year the Steelers in some form or fashion rid themselves of two drama queens and the results speak for themselves.

In the end it doesn't matter who the better back is,

as was mentioned Conner is the better back for the Steelers.
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The fact that us as an offense score almost a TD more per game without Bell and quite a few yards more per game tells me all I need to know. Our offense is much more dangerous without the supposed best RB in football, without over paying for him too.

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Make no mistake, I have no problem with the Steelers deciding to Franchise him and let him move on. Business is business. I'm also not some homer who's going to kill every player who decides he wants to play somewhere else. He did what he thought was right for him, next spring we'll see if he was right. If Conner stays healthy it worked out great for the Steelers, and that's all I really care about at the end of the day. I just don't let my feelings get hurt over the business side of football, it's not my money, or my problem.
 
Drink IRON City said:
And by more dangerous with do you mean more yardage??? CONNOR averages near 8yards per game more than bell did................. And by more yardage do you mean more touch downs ????? CONNOR has 11 TDs to date and still season left, bell scored 7 all season last year................. AND by more dangerous do you mean AB speeding 100mph >???? CONNOR has that durring his season. So to surmise........... CONNER brings everything as much as BELL does and yet CONNER is here and participating.......WHAT has bell done for you????

Salute the nation
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I don't care about stats. Arians always delivered great stats but the offense got worse and worse in the redzone.

When i say the offense is better with Bell, i mean harder to defend. It simply is. Bell can run WR routes. Few RBs can do that. Conner can't do that. I don;t give a **** how many dump offs Conner catches. He's not going to split out wide and run skinny post or run a wheel route and make an over the shoulder catch 30 yards downfield.

Bell must be accounted for in the coverage scheme. Defenses must either put a CB or S on him or account for him in a zone. That loosens the coverage on AB, JuJu and the TEs.

A few years ago in the playoffs against the Pats, the steelers started out moving the ball really well. Bell got injured and the Pats immediately changed their scheme. They no longer had to account for the RB in coverage so their LBs were able to blitz and play tougher vs the run.

If you just want to point at stats and claim the steeler offense is better with Conner, there's nothing i can say to convince you.

The defense has better numbers this year than last. Does that mean Bostic is as good as Shazier?
 
Connor is a more dangerous rb, he breaks more tackles, breaks more long runs.
Bell can line up as a wr vs LBs, making him a more dangerous receiver.

The offense is better without Bell, the numbers clearly point that way. The offense without Bell runs through Ben more, as it should, when Bell is in there we get to enamored with the slow it down, run Bell 30 times offense.
Connor has become a great dump off for Ben, which alot of times leaves Connor unaccounted for by defense which is more dangerous than Bell lining up in the slot, where he is accounted for.

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The offensive improvement is not because of Conner. He's playing very well but he's not the main catalyst. Here's how i would rank it

1. Fichtner far superior to Haley as a gameplanner and redzone playcaller. No more forcing deep shots. No more reverses from the 2 yard line. Fichtner is attacking weaknesses while playing to the steelers strengths.

2. OL is playing out of their minds. Yes, the OL has been good the last few years but this year it's on a new level. This is also partly due to Fichtner's better gameplans

3. Emergence of the TEs. Vance McDonald is finally healthy and is a weapon. He's also a good blocker. Better than James has been the last few years. But James has also stepped up his game. He is quite a bit better than the last few year both as a blocker and a receiver.

4. JuJu was a weapon from game 1 this year. Last year he was a rookie finding his way much of the year. This year he's much more involved in the offense.


None of this is to bash Conner. He's playing great but it's just not realistic to say the offense is better with Conner over Bell. The best would be if we had both and could get the tough running of Conner when we need to grind out some yards, along with the field stretching receiving ability of Bell.

I hope Bell shows up and plays the rest of the year. I just want a Super Bowl. Bell would increase the chances quite a bit.
 
Coryea said:
Connor is a more dangerous rb, he breaks more tackles, breaks more long runs.
Bell can line up as a wr vs LBs, making him a more dangerous receiver.

The offense is better without Bell, the numbers clearly point that way. The offense without Bell runs through Ben more, as it should, when Bell is in there we get to enamored with the slow it down, run Bell 30 times offense.
Connor has become a great dump off for Ben, which alot of times leaves Connor unaccounted for by defense which is more dangerous than Bell lining up in the slot, where he is accounted for.

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But who is account for Bell in the slot? It's probably going to be a DB and that screws up most coverages. You use a CB on Bell and it almost guarantees that a TE or WR will get single coverage somewhere.

It's not a statistical effect. Bell's influence will show up more in big plays made by other players.

If Bell shows up and is in shape, I would not be surprised if Washington then started making plays, because he'd probably end up with a great matchup.

This offense misses Martavis too. He played like a bum last year but him just lining up meant defenses had to keep a safety over the top on his side of the field.

No defense can coverage every inch of the field. With Bell on the field, there is simply more space a defense has to cover than when Conner is out there. COnner can catch dump offs and move the chains but those type routes are already accounted for in every defense.
 
I think the major point everyone can agree is, Bell of 2017 being here with Randy Fichtner as the play caller. Tape’s number one reason is the most important.

Now, if we had Bell of 2017 and Conner of this year AND Randy calling the plays......Oh my....this offense would be unstoppable.


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I would rather have a runner that can get those tough yards and keep the chains moving, compared to a runner who can get it through the air.

We can debate back n forth all day long.

But it comes down to Bell's pass catching VS Conner's better inside running-breaking tackle ability.

It is a pick your poison kind of situation. I really don't think Bell get's the edge.

But I will say part of the O-line playing so well can be said to be team chemistry. Loving to play with Conner.

If we factor that in, I know who I am picking 9 times out of 10.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
But who is account for Bell in the slot? It's probably going to be a DB and that screws up most coverages. You use a CB on Bell and it almost guarantees that a TE or WR will get single coverage somewhere.

It's not a statistical effect. Bell's influence will show up more in big plays made by other players.

If Bell shows up and is in shape, I would not be surprised if Washington then started making plays, because he'd probably end up with a great matchup.

This offense misses Martavis too. He played like a bum last year but him just lining up meant defenses had to keep a safety over the top on his side of the field.

No defense can coverage every inch of the field. With Bell on the field, there is simply more space a defense has to cover than when Conner is out there. COnner can catch dump offs and move the chains but those type routes are already accounted for in every defense.
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My point is, when Bell is in the slot, someone covers him, whether it's a LB or S, but he's accounted for.
Connor doesn't line up like that as much, he stays in to chip or block, but alot of times there's no one to block so he just leaks out of the backfield for a dump off, and alot of times the defense loses him the shuffle, that's what I mean by not accounted for.

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Coryea said:
My point is, when Bell is in the slot, someone covers him, whether it's a LB or S, but he's accounted for.
Connor doesn't line up like that as much, he stays in to chip or block, but alot of times there's no one to block so he just leaks out of the backfield for a dump off, and alot of times the defense loses him the shuffle, that's what I mean by not accounted for.

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I see what you are saying but that’s my point as well. Bell gets covered by a CB or S or a combo of LB and DB. That generallymeans the defense is forced to do something unusual for them. It limits the calls they can make and it means the coverage will be weaker some place else.

Conner is not played any differently. He might make a few catches to move the chains but that’s the limit of Conner’s impact in the passing game. Even when Bell does not get the ball, he is influencing the defense and making it easier to exploit the defense. The steelers are able to dictate matchups more with Bell in there.

it’s all moot now anyway as it appears Bell has decided to give up $14 Million to be a pawn of the union.
 
tapeANaspirin2it said:
I see what you are saying but that’s my point as well. Bell gets covered by a CB or S or a combo of LB and DB. That generallymeans the defense is forced to do something unusual for them. It limits the calls they can make and it means the coverage will be weaker some place else.

Conner is not played any differently. He might make a few catches to move the chains but that’s the limit of Conner’s impact in the passing game. Even when Bell does not get the ball, he is influencing the defense and making it easier to exploit the defense. The steelers are able to dictate matchups more with Bell in there.

it’s all moot now anyway as it appears Bell has decided to give up $14 Million to be a pawn of the union.
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Teams just go 5 dbs when Bell is in, he's not the power runner Connor is. We go spread now, Connor punishes them in the running game, they try to get run personnel in, we throw it on them.
It's a huge sample size, we move the ball better, score more points, and are better in the red zone without Bell, and now Connor is averaging more yards per carry, more yards per catch, already has more TDs than Bell in 2017.

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All of this talk about Bell being a weapon in the passing game: when he caught the ball last season he was (on average) 0.5 yards past the line of scrimmage. It's a false narrative to suggest he is some sort of downfield threat.
 
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