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Interesting HOF snubs of the PITTSBURGH STEELERS

FSF said:
Lloyd was opposite of overrated and was more than just “decent” before Kevin Green.

Don’t know if you’re old enough to have watched the late 80s teams more than through lens of a kid; but if you are you’d know he was right behind Woodson as driving force of Steelers resurgence beginning in 1989.

Injuries kept him off field to start his career & ended his career early. But for 5 years he was best OLB in the game.

Can’t sell otherwise on could he continue without Green. Healthy Lloyd would have been just fine with Jason Gildon on other side.

Stats/sacks—don’t tell the whole story either. As a point of reference: Joey Porter was a 10 sack best guy with like Lloyd—but the mid-90s & 2000s Steelers had something in common; sacrificing stats for wins. Porter had 18 with Dolphins his first year; obviously he could have had more on Steelers... but would they have had 2 of the best 3 regular seasons (13/15 wins) if they were about individual #s? The 2005 Super Bowl team—same thing. Lloyd & his Steelers were same way.

Just another “stat” line to throw out. Ben Roethlisberger is 1 of 19 QBs with 500 yard games (the only one with 3)... while they won all 3 of those games—Ben also broke Dan Marino’s record for most 450+ yard games (6)... would it surprise you to know the Steelers are 1-9 in games Ben threw for “only” 400 yards? Take that to 380+ yard games—still only 4 wins (counting the 3 rare 500 yard games) and 13 losses.

Lloyd was beating heart of Steelers original Blitzburgh. Can never forget about how vs. San Diego in 1995, after an INT; our reserve CB—satisfied with the pick laid on the ground. Lloyd literally picked him up as pushed him to run it back for the pick-6. Same season; vs. Bears the D under-performed & it was the offense that led the way to the win. Lloyd went to O’Donnell and gave a hug; & for the first time the defense accepted the offense & they became a full team.

It’s a shame timing didn’t line up for Lloyd. That 1994 AFCCG loss still eclipses the fluke 2 special teams TD one vs. Pats (the year Bettis best season was derailed by a groin injury). 3 bad plays all game was all SD needed as O’Donnell couldn’t get it done at all after 1st drive. Super Bowl XXX had a terrible start—but the D settled down and dominated the Cowboys. Again the offense was terrible—just imagine in Jerome Bettis was there one year earlier & Woodson was healthy.

Lloyd didn’t have a Ben Roethlisberger at QB—and only 1/3 seasons when Steelers were elite that both he & Rod Woodson were healthy.

Joey Porter/James Harrison had Troy Polamalu complimenting them in 3 SB runs.

It takes a team — but underselling Lloyd and what he was for his run is not close to accurate


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All three of Lloyd's Allpro years came while playing with Kevin Greene.

I was fairly young in the late 1980s/early 1990s. I recall Lloyd being good prior to Greene's arrival, but he seemed to take it to another level after.

Regardless, Lloyd had a relatively short prime.
 
Punxsutawney said:
All three of Lloyd's Allpro years came while playing with Kevin Greene.

I was fairly young in the late 1980s/early 1990s. I recall Lloyd being good prior to Greene's arrival, but he seemed to take it to another level after.

Regardless, Lloyd had a relatively short prime.
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Understood, though he still had a longer prime than HOFer Terrell Davis.
 
Cope said:
Understood, though he still had a longer prime than HOFer Terrell Davis.
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1/2 of what got Terrell in was his TV announcing job. He got his buddies to all talk about and push his induction. YES, that did make an impression on the voting, Warren sap is another example because if they weren't front and center on the talking heads carnival they wouldn't have been nearly as publicly noticed. Notice their careers peaked about that time and where are they now in that peak career exposure.....

I'm just glad they are out of the picture, so to speak.





Salute the nation
 
Drink IRON City said:
Did Coach tell you that?


Salute the nation
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I've always felt Shell deserved it. Glad he finally go in. Even wrote Eddie a few pointers.

Stats don't tell the whole story, rather they tell a story of their own.

The stats say: LC Greenwood was a six-time Pro Bowl player and was named to NFL All-Pro teams in 1974 and 1975. He was named All-AFC five times. He also led the Steelers six times in sacks with a career total of 73½ (sacks were an unofficial stat at the time.

While Grenwood was a very good player, does he really measure up to other Hall of fame players at DE? Looking at the players enshrined from 1970-current, who on his list is he better than? Green = better than.
[h=3]DL Hall of fame players 1970 to current[/h]
Curley Culp 1968-1981 - Don't remember him
Fred Dean (DE) 1975-1985
Richard Dent 1983-1997 - Not Better than
Chris Doleman (DE, LB) 1985-1999- Not Better than
Joe Greene (DT) 1969-1981- Not Better than
Kevin Greene (LB/DE) 1985-1999 - Not Better than
Charles Haley 1986-1996; 1999 - Not Better than
Dan Hampton (DT-DE) 1979-1990
Claude Humphrey 1968-1981- Don't remember him enough to rate
David (Deacon) Jones (DE) 1961-1974 - Not Better than
Cortez Kennedy (DT) 1990-2000 - Felt he was over rated
Bob Lilly (DT) 1961-1974 -
Howie Long (DE) 1981-1993- Not Better than
Merlin Olsen (DT) 1962-1976 - Not Better than
Alan Page (DT) 1967-1981 - Not Better than
John Randle 1990-2003 - Not Better than
Warren Sapp 1995-2007 - Hated this guy but he was a player
Lee Roy Selmon (DE) 1976-1984 - Not Better than
Bruce Smith 1985-2003- Not Better than
Michael Strahan 1993-2007 - Not Better than
Jason Taylor 1997-2011- Not Better than
Randy White (DT) 1975-1988 - Not Better than
Reggie White (DT-DE) 1985-1998, 2000 - Not Better than
Jack Youngblood (DE) 1971-1984 -Not Better than





Okay, LC would not be the worst man on the list, but he would in the lower 1/3. Unfortunately there is a bias that Steelers have too many people in the Hall of Fame already. LC's not likely to make it.
 
Cope said:
I'm not saying Swann isn't a HOFer, he passes the eye test, but he's got some of the lowest stats for any WR in the HOF.

Also look to Terrell Davis, great for a short amount of time, low *** stats for a RB, but made the HOF.

My argument is Lloyd also passed the eye test, was dominant for a short amount of time, and has low stats for a LB. He still has a legit shot IMHO, albeit an outside one.
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i personally have considered it BS that terrell davis is a HOF'er, but eh, seems pretty much anybody is granted entry these days.
 
Again I'm not under valuing Lloyd's play or contribution to thos 90s teams. I would say there are three factors in a hall of fame bid. Stats, accolades and important connection to a championship. Lloyd had some accolades but they dont look at heart and soul of a one time AFC Championship team. I would say if you were talking about edge players Lloyd is behind White and Harrison from his own franchise.
 
Harrison will make the HOF and it wouldn't surprise first ballot. We as STEELERS fans saw that he was held a VERY lot of the time. The Voters as well saw the saME THING. Doubtful Godell is in office when it comes up but if he is he will have a bigger say than the voters on Harrison's fate as first ballot or not.




Salute the nation
 
Harrison will be in HOF. Don't know about first ballot. And he probably isn't that much better than Lloyd. But a Championship and specifically one play within it will be a huge difference in his chances.
 
Everyone keeps talking about Lloyd’s sacks. He played middle linebacker on passing downs he did a lot more than rush. He was without doubt the set olb for a few years. he did everything at a high level not just rushing the passer
 
SteelerSask said:
Harrison will be in HOF. Don't know about first ballot. And he probably isn't that much better than Lloyd. But a Championship and specifically one play within it will be a huge difference in his chances.
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AND maybe all time STEELERS sack leader as well will help, DPOY too.




Salute the nation
 
Lloyd was a great player, but his prime was a short one. What stands out to me is his hitting ability. The guy once launched Brett Farve backwards into the air in a pre-season game.

Lloyd has 35 career forced fumbles, recovered 16 fumbles and had 11 career interceptions. Those are hall of fame numbers for any outside linebacker. Lloyd was just a good pass rusher, and unfortunately the Hall of fame likes sack masters at OLB. I'll take a turnover produced over a sack. If my memory is correct Lloyd whacked Emmit Smith on the goal line preventing a touchdown on that play in the super bowl. IMO Smith was hurt and that hit prevented him from having a good super bowl.

He's not making the hall of fame, but if he played for major market team, he probably would have.
 
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Stats matter, but too many people relay on just those. It is not the Hall of Stats, it's the Hall of Fame. Stats, personal accomplishments, team accomplishments and, most importantly IMOP, how the player impacted the game. Swan clearly checks 3 of the 4 boxes. Lloyd doesn't seem to pass muster in my opinion. Greenwood and White should be in. Ward SHOULD have been a slam dunk. Clearly, in Wards case, there is some anti-Steeler bias at work with the voters.
 
steelerscotty said:
Stats matter, but too many people relay on just those. It is not the Hall of Stats, it's the Hall of Fame. Stats, personal accomplishments, team accomplishments and, most importantly IMOP, how the player impacted the game. Swan clearly checks 3 of the 4 boxes. Lloyd doesn't seem to pass muster in my opinion. Greenwood and White should be in. Ward SHOULD have been a slam dunk. Clearly, in Wards case, there is some anti-Steeler bias at work with the voters.
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I skimmed this and was originally going to write a rebuttal, but having read it clearly I think it is dead on. In my opinion Faneca and Ward are getting in. probably one in the next round and one the year or two after. Thing was they expended this year. Troy was the slam dunk of all slam dunks. I will be honest, I didn't see coach Cowher coming. And it certainly wasn't that I didn't think he deserved. I have the greatest respect for him. just never heard his name closely connected. They used the year to get him and Jimmy Johnson in. They weren't going to put three in this year.
I will say this like in the case of Lloyd after more then 20 years since the last snap, what is there to compare his play but stats. Most voters probably vaguely remember watching him. I know that a large segment of our fan base has a special place for Greg Lloyd. My oldest son's name is Greg so connect the dots on that. He just isn't a HOF player.
 
Punxsutawney said:
Lloyd might have been a bit overrated.

For years, he was decent, but never really became a great player until he had Kevin Greene playing across from him.

He developed the staph infection the year that Greene left, so we really don't know if he could have sustained an Allpro level of play without Greene.

Also, Chad Brown might have been better than Lloyd in the season he replaced him before leaving in free agency
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Well, in his Hall of Fame speech he said the opposite. Greene credits Lloyd for being a fundamental part in his success. Even Lloyd is the one who presents him in the hall.
For me, knowing the small amount of time they played together, means the respect he has for Lloyd as a player.

I also remember I read several years ago, can't remember where, that Coach Lebeau was asked that if he had the chance of starting a new defense which player he would chose
to build around. He responded that it would definately be Greg Lloyd.

Those for me are some opinions I would listen.
 
Steelaztec said:
Well, in his Hall of Fame speech he said the opposite. Greene credits Lloyd for being a fundamental part in his success. Even Lloyd is the one who presents him in the hall.
For me, knowing the small amount of time they played together, means the respect he has for Lloyd as a player.

I also remember I read several years ago, can't remember where, that Coach Lebeau was asked that if he had the chance of starting a new defense which player he would chose
to build around. He responded that it would definately be Greg Lloyd.

Those for me are some opinions I would listen.
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I think he is a huge part of those 90's teams and I agree with those assesments. But interestingly he is not yet a part of the Steelers Hall of Honor and Greene who played 3 seasons is. Perhaps this is a part of it:
In 2002, Lloyd pointed a gun at ex-wife Rhonda Lloyd's head, and he pleaded no contest to simple battery in 2004. On July 27, 2018, Lloyd was arrested after he allegedly pulled a gun on his wife Stephanie and threatened to shoot her. He was charged with felony aggravated assault and misdemeanor pointing a gun at another person, charges to which he denies.
 
SteelerSask said:
I think he is a huge part of those 90's teams and I agree with those assesments. But interestingly he is not yet a part of the Steelers Hall of Honor and Greene who played 3 seasons is. Perhaps this is a part of it:
In 2002, Lloyd pointed a gun at ex-wife Rhonda Lloyd's head, and he pleaded no contest to simple battery in 2004. On July 27, 2018, Lloyd was arrested after he allegedly pulled a gun on his wife Stephanie and threatened to shoot her. He was charged with felony aggravated assault and misdemeanor pointing a gun at another person, charges to which he denies.
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I was going to comment on this as well but I find it hard for this to keep him out of the HOF as there are other players with much worse on their resumes than this. rayray is an example, warren sap / lawrence taylor as well. I think Gregg LLoyd is marginal HOF but I think with B & G glasses as he was one of my favorites and played on my beloved STEELERS team.



Salute the nation
 
so Lloyd may not be a hall of famer but he was a total badass! loved him. Double L OY! D he was'nt hired for his disposition.. I love that highlight with Cowher, I think against the Bengals maybe? Cowher" Greg rush the QB!" so glad he was a Steeler
 
Drink IRON City said:
I was going to comment on this as well but I find it hard for this to keep him out of the HOF as there are other players with much worse on their resumes than this. rayray is an example, warren sap / lawrence taylor as well. I think Gregg LLoyd is marginal HOF but I think with B & G glasses as he was one of my favorites and played on my beloved STEELERS team.



Salute the nation
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This is pretty much bang on. And I think you can pretty much say the same for Kirkland. Great player. Not a Hall of Famer. Had they won a SB might be different. I believe he will be a Steelers Hall of Honour. He will not be a pro football hall of fame player.
 
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