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Interesting fact about the secondary which prompts this question.

slashsteel

slashsteel

Thank you for everything Franco, R I P.
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Steelers intercepted just eight passes this season. Fewest in franchise history. Dropped more INTs than any other team and faced 6th most pass attempts ever (67 more than last year). #Steelers
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(snagged off twitter)

So knowing that besides Big Ben cutting down on INTs the secondary has to start capitalizing on opportunities.

I wonder, as you know AB constantly hits the jugs and did Ward, etc.

Are these DBs regularly hitting the jugs, and if not why ? ?
 
slashsteel said:
Are these DBs regularly hitting the jugs, and if not why ? ?
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It seems so basic, but you're right. Hit the jugs machine and do some more tipped ball drills. I just watched a video of Kevin Hart going through a practice at Rams camp and he went through a pretty good running back drill for ball security. I know the Steelers have some good practice drills and habits, however there are some definitely areas for improvement.
 
I think our dbacks just struggled. With lack of safety vet, new positions,. Rookies, Artie sucking,, aybe they were playing prevent, and it takes away that edge of ball Hawking. Plus new coach. Whatever the reason, they sucked donkey.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
I think our dbacks just struggled. With lack of safety vet, new positions,. Rookies, Artie sucking,, aybe they were playing prevent, and it takes away that edge of ball Hawking. Plus new coach. Whatever the reason, they sucked donkey.
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None of this explains away them dropping so many INTs.
 
I'm saying you gotta be solid in all areas to be able to not play the tackle / hit and instead feel confident enough to play the ball / pass. I dont think or dbacks have that confidence. Why they don't catch the few that hit em in the hands? Well there's a reason they aren't wide receivers.
 
How does jack ham, a linebacker, have the same AMT of career interceptions as Troy polumalu? He didn't have a jugs machine. But he had Mel Blount behind him and Donnie shell. Mel had 57 on his career, and Donnie had 50.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
I'm saying you gotta be solid in all areas to be able to not play the tackle / hit and instead feel confident enough to play the ball / pass. I dont think or dbacks have that confidence. Why they don't catch the few that hit em in the hands? Well there's a reason they aren't wide receivers.
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You can still work on your craft. And I am not convinced the team is running the right drills. Steelers need to improve that statistic if they hope to do anything significant like win a SB.
 
slashsteel said:
None of this explains away them dropping so many INTs.
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Try this on for size.................These players look at playing as a job. Most employees will as little as possible unless prompted........... Are our coaches encouraging them enough for extra curricular activities such as hitting the "jugs" machine after practice............ I know they should be accountable but if NOT pushed a little it's easy to skip out and being in a lackadazical atmosphere that "skipping" out probably happens a lot more than yaz think.




Salute the nation
 
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PS/....... Nice find slash and that's an interesting stat(s).





Salute the nation
 
Steelers intercepted just eight passes this season. Fewest in franchise history. Dropped more INTs than any other team and faced 6th most pass attempts ever (67 more than last year). #Steelers
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This is a huge problem. Davis drops too many easy interceptions. Only Haden is a quality DB. Hilton was very good in 2017, but just all right in 2018.

We need to upgrade at Free Safety, and the other starting cornerback ASAP. The loss of Shaizer hurts. He was one of our best cover guy and a player who could also come up with interceptions.
 
Black & Gold Bleeder said:
How does jack ham, a linebacker, have the same AMT of career interceptions as Troy polumalu? He didn't have a jugs machine. But he had Mel Blount behind him and Donnie shell. Mel had 57 on his career, and Donnie had 50.
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Jack Ham is one of the greatest LBers in NFL history. Always in the right place and decent hands. Unicorn.
 
I think this has a lot to do with being coached to limit the big plays. Too many times it seems they are letting them make the catch then attacking instead of going for the ball. This probably is also a result of the rule changes favoring the offensive player.

Coach do you ever pass up an opportunity to bash Davis? I don’t understand your take on him. I see him as a very improved player with potential to still improve. He makes some aggressive plays and seems to be growing into a playmaker. He isn’t perfect but he was far better than Burnett and some of the others.
 
Because his agenda/narrative has to be pushed. Has complained about the pick since he was drafted.

Coach said:
This is a huge problem. Davis drops too many easy interceptions. Only Haden is a quality DB. Hilton was very good in 2017, but just all right in 2018.

We need to upgrade at Free Safety, and the other starting cornerback ASAP. The loss of Shaizer hurts. He was one of our best cover guy and a player who could also come up with interceptions.
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So tell us genius, how many drops were made by each DB individually? Then provide the percentage of throws against the drops ratio?

Davis for the first half of the season played the role asked, prevent long gains and tackle the catch. It helped the defense cut down plays over 20 yards and 40 yards by half. The later 3rd of the year he was allowed to take more chances. Going for the ball rather than going for the hit.


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Ike Kelly said:
Because his agenda/narrative has to be pushed. Has complained about the pick since he was drafted.


So tell us genius, how many drops were made by each DB individually? Then provide the percentage of throws against the drops ratio?

Davis for the first half of the season played the role asked, prevent long gains and tackle the catch. It helped the defense cut down plays over 20 yards and 40 yards by half. The later 3rd of the year he was allowed to take more chances. Going for the ball rather than going for the hit.


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I'm a bit mystified by our post. You hate it when I produce data that shows a Steeler sucks. Okay, I'll play along.


Davis lead the team in miss tackles this season. If memory serves, he dropped two passes that should have been interceptions.

A link on the missed tackle report up to the Saints game below. Davis leads the team by 8 missed tackles :)

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2018/12/steelers-vs-saints-missed-tackles-report/


As for the percentage of throws against vs. drops ratio, you might have to subscribe to Pro Fooball Focus to learn that one!


Some homework for you Ike!


Which starting free safety had less than seven passes defended for the season that played 15 games or more? Do you care to research? I can help a bit. Davis is tied for 95th at best in the NFL regarding passes defended.


https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/defense-pass-defenses


Davis has zero tackles for losses last season. Those with objective eyes understand he's not the ideal starter.
 
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Which starting free safety had less than seven passes defended for the season that played 15 games or more? Do you care to research? I can help a bit. Davis is tied for 95th at best in the NFL regarding passes defended.
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Does this mean that, if you sort by the PD stat, you get Davis at 95th or is there some subjective ranking showing him at 95th best per target? Those are two very different stats.
 
ark steel said:
Does this mean that, if you sort by the PD stat, you get Davis at 95th or is there some subjective ranking showing him at 95th best per target? Those are two very different stats.
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Oh I’d say plenty of balls went his way. Davis is the type that lets his man catch the ball often uncontested and then tackles him.

Do you really think quarterbacks avoid him?

With perhaps the best pass rush in the nfl, you’d figure he make more plays when the Qb was pressured.

I wish I had the amount of times he was targeted. I do not

Either way he lead the team in missed tackles and gave up too many big plays without making big plays for the defense. That much I can say.

He’s not a rookie anymore. I think we have already seen his ceiling.


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Coach said:
Oh I’d say plenty of balls went his way. Davis is the type that lets his man catch the ball often uncontested and then tackles him.

Do you really think quarterbacks avoid him?

With perhaps the best pass rush in the nfl, you’d figure he make more plays when the Qb was pressured.

I wish I had the amount of times he was targeted. I do not

Either way he lead the team in missed tackles and gave up too many big plays without making big plays for the defense. That much I can say.

He’s not a rookie anymore. I think we have already seen his ceiling.


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I wasn't thinking anything, I asked a question about a specific stat you used. That is how I work, i.e. no preconceived opinion. Well, other than that you, sometimes, don't fully understand the stats you use to "prove" a point.

Sorting by the number of PD's is incredibly misleading. Especially, if the safeties are being told to keep stuff in front of you and don't take the risk going for the ball. If that is what he'd be taught to do, you'd expect him to have little or no PD's.

As for missed tackles, I don't know where you get the number, but he also lead the team in tackles. For the last two years. combined and solo tackles. you would expect that to correlate, somewhat, to more missed tackles than someone else on the team. Even "missed tackles" is subjective. If you meet a guy at the LoS but he escapes your grasp where someone else tackles him within a yard, you "missed" the tackle, but the result wasn't a big deal. if you miss the tackle and he runs X more yards for a TD, it is something completely different. Yet, both would be recorded as a "missed tackle".

He is leading the team in actual tackles and missed tackles, means he gets to the ball carrier, too, right?
 
ark steel said:
I wasn't thinking anything, I asked a question about a specific stat you used. That is how I work, i.e. no preconceived opinion. Well, other than that you, sometimes, don't fully understand the stats you use to "prove" a point.

Sorting by the number of PD's is incredibly misleading. Especially, if the safeties are being told to keep stuff in front of you and don't take the risk going for the ball. If that is what he'd be taught to do, you'd expect him to have little or no PD's.

As for missed tackles, I don't know where you get the number, but he also lead the team in tackles. For the last two years. combined and solo tackles. you would expect that to correlate, somewhat, to more missed tackles than someone else on the team. Even "missed tackles" is subjective. If you meet a guy at the LoS but he escapes your grasp where someone else tackles him within a yard, you "missed" the tackle, but the result wasn't a big deal. if you miss the tackle and he runs X more yards for a TD, it is something completely different. Yet, both would be recorded as a "missed tackle".

He is leading the team in actual tackles and missed tackles, means he gets to the ball carrier, too, right?
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The missed tackle number is from Steeler Depot. Davis isn't a good tackler and came in 2nd in this dubious department in 2017.

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2019/01/steelers-vs-bengals-missed-tackles-report-6/

20 percent miss rate (80 total tackles) _ Ark, that sucks. Is my point now proven here? Yes or no?


You just can't take a safety out of a game. Davis does not have good ball skills. Just one gimme interception was made by Davis and more were dropped.

If you want to use 3rd party data like Pro football Focus, they don't think too highly of him.

Put to you in another format, non DB's where were surely target less vs the pass made as many or more plays on the ball.

I have never heard of anyone saying we need to avoid Davis, have you?

The reason he had the most tackles is he makes them way past the line of scrimmage after a player has caught the football in his area . This suggest he was targeted a lot. As I pointed out, zero of the tackles were behind the LOS. And he likely rates near last or last among Free safeties with PD's that played 15 games or more.

So please stop acting like he wasn't target enough unless you can show me the data that he was.
 
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