I honestly think it's a culture issue.

[Troglodyte]

The funniest thing I heard all week was conspiracy theorists claiming the Patriots intentionally lost to the Jets to keep the big, bad Steelers out of the playoffs.

That, and someone else claiming that Vegas was responsible for the Steelers ******** the bed vs the Ravens. As if the line was Ravens -2, not Ravens +10 up from +8 earlier in the week.

 

[Rod Farva]

That is assuming that those coaches have bought into the heritage of the team, which is assuming a lot. Butler, I can see, the other two....not so much.

There's Carnell Lake. Was going to start a thread about him anyhow. I get that he doesn't have a lot to work with but he's doing a terrible job with fundamentals, imo. ****** tackling technique is rife in this secondary....nearly every one of them employs the missile shot without wrapping up.......haven't looked it up if it exists but I wonder what the seasons yards after contact was against this D?
Has to be bad and, it did have a bearing on Sundays game. The team is the sum of all It does or doesn't do.

 

[mdk2]

Exactly what good teams did they beat ? The cardinals and backups that's all they beat. Just like the article I posted stated.

Steelers play who is on the field against them... I doubt other teams were upset about winning without Ben at QB.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

It's definitely league wide, money talks. Player loyalty is to the dollar far more so than to team, team mate, fans or the league. People have changed over the years and NFL players are no different.

Fans definitely get more attached/emotionally involved than a vast number of the players, not all, but many.

The real trick is to find the loyal, team first guys that have the talent to go with

 

[MTC]

It's definitely league wide, money talks. Player loyalty is to the dollar far more so than to team, team mate, fans or the league. People have changed over the years and NFL players are no different.

Fans definitely get more attached/emotionally involved than a vast number of the players, not all, but many.

The real trick is to find the loyal, team first guys that have the talent to go with

^^^
This

 

[RollRed]

I think most of them just figure "why should I kill myself for an organization that won't give a **** about me the minute my skills decline or they find someone who can do it just as well for less money". It's unfortunate because teams have to be that way with limited roster space and salary caps to deal with. But it's also human nature to take it personally when someone says that they don't want you anymore. Personally I think it's as simple as this... Right now u are being paid a huge sum of money to perform so go out there and do it to the best of your ability. In other words, be a professional.

 

[GILBERT]

Identity goes with culture. What is the identity? Not looking for comparison vs. Cowher's teams, but we new exactly what they would do every week. Run, run, maybe pass. Get up by two scores and run, run run. On D, blitzburgh. The O and the D new exactly what they need to do.

This team is confused. The O can put up 50. The D has played well in spurts. I think the D gives up yards and points based on this vaunted O putting up more.

If we new the Steelers were going to give up 20 points to the Ravens, I'm sure most people on this board and the entire Defensive staff of the team would have bet the O would have scored 20+.

they simply don't feed off each other.

 

[MT~Forged]

Some statements and then some questions. I think everyone or nearly everyone here will agree that the Steelers were a bit apathetic in their play versus the Ravens. I also think that everyone or nearly everyone believes that two of the primary roles of the head coach are to properly prepare the team mentally and to ensure that they are put in the best position to succeed. That is mostly done through practice and repetition during the week leading up to the game. So, in my mind, there's no way anyone can tell me with a straight face that the Steeler practices leading up to the Ravens game were sharp, on point and razor-sharp. With this all being said, here are my questions. If you were the coach what would you be doing during the week when practices went south or became sloppy to properly prepare the team for the game? Is there anything that can be done? Or, do you simply hope that as "professionals" they will prep properly? You'll hate this one, but, what would Belechick do? His teams are rarely unprepared.

Papillon

See this is where I believe Bellicheat has it going on. He gets more out of no name players than any other coach. I believe it is because he gives no name players a shot and they have to perform or they are gone. That means they HAVE TO play their ***** off, and NEVER have been the most talented on their prior teams. This means to me that they have much more heart than talent.

We have TALENTED players that seem to lack the heart/desire. We also have a coach who seems to be willing to ACCEPT this, and not willing to make the difficult choices to cut heartless players.

 

[SteelerSask2]

See this is where I believe Bellicheat has it going on. He gets more out of no name players than any other coach. I believe it is because he gives no name players a shot and they have to perform or they are gone. That means they HAVE TO play their ***** off, and NEVER have been the most talented on their prior teams. This means to me that they have much more heart than talent.

We have TALENTED players that seem to lack the heart/desire. We also have a coach who seems to be willing to ACCEPT this, and not willing to make the difficult choices to cut heartless players.

That is a money post right there. And as much as I hate Legarett Blount it kinda makes you wonder doesn't it. He can't play for Tomlin feels like he was lied to about his role. Walks out on the Steelers and becomes a huge part of NE SB run. Maybe it is really about matching up what you tell people to what really is going to happen. And clearly another piece here is that you can tell this team has little to no discipline what so ever. Between the ridiculous sometimes dangerous celebrations and personal foul penalties and not one player is even spoken to.Next man up please.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

See this is where I believe Bellicheat has it going on. He gets more out of no name players than any other coach. I believe it is because he gives no name players a shot and they have to perform or they are gone. That means they HAVE TO play their ***** off, and NEVER have been the most talented on their prior teams. This means to me that they have much more heart than talent.

We have TALENTED players that seem to lack the heart/desire. We also have a coach who seems to be willing to ACCEPT this, and not willing to make the difficult choices to cut heartless players.

I was gonna say in response to RollRed's post that The Cheating Bastiges From New England don't seem to have down games or seasons or attitude problems. Cheating or not, Hoodie gets players to buy in to his deal. The standard is the standard is a few notches higher in New England.

 

[SteelerSask2]

Another team culture issue that clearly needs to be addressed in my opinion is the way they come out of the gate. People say, oh its just preseason. Bullshit. And I don't care about the wins and losses, but you better show that the work you are putting into the training camp is having result in sharp edge play. And no one can argue that the sloppy pre seasons have not carried over to the first 1/3 of the season in the last several years.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Another team culture issue that clearly needs to be addressed in my opinion is the way they come out of the gate. People say, oh its just preseason. Bullshit. And I don't care about the wins and losses, but you better show that the work you are putting into the training camp is having result in sharp edge play. And no one can argue that the sloppy pre seasons have not carried over to the first 1/3 of the season in the last several years.

They got off to slow starts under Cowher most years too. Drove me nuts. WTF is training camp for?

 

[south dakota STEEL]

They got off to slow starts under Cowher most years too. Drove me nuts. WTF is training camp for?

Showing off new rides and partying...

 

[topseed]

I saw something Papillion posted in another thread and I was reminded of something somebody else posted a week or two ago about (I believe), Martavis Bryant. Suddenly, I realized what I believe is going on with this team.

Tomlin has his problems, to be sure and I'm not going to go into those as there are already about a dozen threads on THOSE topics. However THIS thread is about the players and what's wrong with THEM. Not their talent, or their the preparation. It's about their heart and commitment.

Pap commented about a theory he had that the younger players didn't understand the gravity of last week's game. As life-long fans, we find it inconceivable that the in-week preparation wasn't over-the-top getting ready for the Ravens, the fact that a win would cement a playoff berth and a chance to possibly rest up should have gotten the players 28 Days Later rabid. Instead most of them seemed lethargic, as if they expected the game to be handed to them.

In a post a couple weeks ago it was implied or even stated that Bryant didn't know who Chuck Noll was or Jack Ham. We hear that and we're dumbfounded. But as a young, talented and opportunistic young man it's probably not surprising at all that Bryant and other players currently on the team don't have any idea about the rich culture or history of the team, or of the expectations of the fanbase.

That IS where Tomlin, Haley and Butler come in. Those guys NEED to make certain that all their players not only know the absolute importance of those games, but that each of the players feel truly honored to be on one of the 3 or 4 most storied and beloved franchises in NFL history. Not just because of the contracts and the money and the stats.

You consider the "Young Money" group and while it's sort of a cute nickname, in hindsight one wonders if that's not a real indication of the decay of loyalty and dedication to the team that have rotted away. Perhaps it's not Tomlin's inability to coach or gameplan or manage the clock that have destroyed the team from within. Perhaps the Ravens haven't simply picked up better personnel all along. Maybe John Harbaugh simply realizes that one of his most important jobs is to instill a deep and meaningful pride in each of his players for the team and a loyalty to the fanbase. The Ravens have 19 players on IR. They simply cannot compete this year. And yet, they came out and battled the uninspired and listless Steelers to a loss.

Who knows, it could be that half the Steelers team is simply looking forward to offseason. Perhaps they don't like the odds of a playoff run and just can't get themselves motivated to put forth that extra effort. At any rate, Papillion's post got me thinking that it could be that Tomlin needs to start dealing with a good chunk of the team as guys with a legacy to protect or bags to pack.

Anyway, his post got me thinking.

Here's the thing: The majority of that legacy was established a long time ago. There's exactly one player on the Steelers' current roster who was even alive when they won their fourth Super Bowl -- James Harrison. And he was 1. Tomlin himself was only 7 years old by the time Pittsburgh had won 4 championships in 6 years.

Today's players don't have the connection with the past like most Steelers fans do. Even younger fans have parents and grandparents who lived through and enjoyed those glorious times; these memories have been imparted to several generations now.

Despite his around here we measure success with Lombardis mantra, I don't think Tomlin has developed a culture that gives his players the respect and understanding of how much Steelers football (and its rich tradition) really means to so many people.

 

[diver]

Well the first thing about culture of this team would be that sometimes you have to add by subtracting. And Mr. Tomlin seems to have to get hit with a shovel in the face before that happens. Consider Jamain Stephens for a moment. Did he languish on that roster for years little lone hold down a starters position (even if that is just in name only). How do you possibly create a winners culture when you trot out a guy who clearly has not substantially improved and was a mid first round pick at the key position on this defense. Same with Blake. These guys aren't stupid. They are sitting there watching this stiff go out there every week and there are at minimum 2 guys behind him that are clearly better players. Think about what that does to your culture. The first thing about leadership is to own your mistakes. Acknowledge them and move on. When Jarvis Jones arrived at camp this season and didn't appreciably improve his game he should have been cut. If anyone thinks that Jarvis Jones would still be playing for Bill Belichek at this point they are high. He would rather coach up a guy like Chickillo or convert someone like Williams. Or virtually anyone who seems to play with a little heart, motor and desire. In my opinion Jarvis Jones really demonstrates what is wrong with the culture of this team.

A difference in the 2 situations is that Jarvis Jones, while he has not gotten better, at least is in shape. Jamain Stephens that year could hardly run a lap. Also, the Steelers had players on the OL and it wasn't a real big deal, other than the fact he was a first. It isn't like Jones is keeping some young stud off the team or field.

Actually, I think if Jones was in NE he would be a better player. Belechick would figure something out with him.

 

[6Rings]

No matter who the Patriots put on the field, the entire team has a strong will to win every week, no matter who they play. That comes from the coaching staff, and the organization in general. From rookies starting, to free-agents coming in from another team. The will to win is the same..

 

[SteelerSask2]

You can't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.Diver. Jarvis Jones neither possesses NFL strength or speed. He could play for Belechick, with Lebeau as his coordinator and the best linebacker coach in the history of the league as his unit coach. He just doesn't have the tangibles.

 

[blitzburghv5]

That's what I'm suggesting though. Perhaps quite a few of these younger players simply aren't mature enough to understand the "Professional" aspect of their jobs. I have a young fellow working for me and frankly, I have to micromanage every aspect of his job. He's fine as long as I tell him exactly what to do every moment of his shift, but if I expect him to self-motivate, self-start or otherwise excel - ya. Good luck with that.

Maybe a bunch of these players simply don't take adequate pride in their jobs. Could it be as simple as that? If so, coaches need to identify those guys and start making examples of them. Maybe WE could get a conditional trade pick or two.

They were selected by scouts, coaches and gms in the echelon of the sport. They have pride. You don't make it this far to the nfl with a casual attitude. I think yall expect players to launch helmets at cement walls after a turnover or a loss. Or cry on the sideline after seasons failure. Everybody isn't wired the same. Honestly, I cant look at a player on the field, at this level and know for certain "hes not focused or disinterested in the game".

Players in the modern era (70s going forward) have always wanted money. Todays generation showcases its wealth in the fashionable attire pre/postgame and its cars because its a social media, all access generation we live in. But just because they give themselves cool nicknames doesn't mean they don't have focus or loyalty to the sport. These guys agonize over losses im sure....you just wont see the outburst or demonstrative behavior of a Lambert.

 

[SteelerSask2]

No matter who the Patriots put on the field, the entire team has a strong will to win every week, no matter who they play. That comes from the coaching staff, and the organization in general. From rookies starting, to free-agents coming in from another team. The will to win is the same..

So true and the opening game was a microcosm of the Steelers season. The Steelers had weeks if not months to prepare for that game. There was nothing but controversy and question marks surrounding the Pats and a entirely retooled DB unit. And the Steelers can't communicate who is supposed to cover Rob ****** Gronkowski. Really.

 

[blitzburghv5]

It is the coach's job to put the players in the best position to win.

And these coaches haven't done that obviously.

If it is a youth issue , then the coach's need to find a way to get their message across.

Some coaches do just that, some don't.

We are on the cusp of another double digit win total season. 21 wins in two seasons suggests coaches are putting players in position to win...cause theyre doing it nearly twice as much as they lose. Now, if you were discussing the Jags, Browns, Skins, Saints, Dolphins or a host of other teams at or below .500 then your point is more valid.

You don't win 10/11 games and a division title being average.....not in the NFL. And the AFC North for the most part (save Ravens collapse this year) has been a tough division.

 

[slashsteel]

We are on the cusp of another double digit win total season. 21 wins in two seasons suggests coaches are putting players in position to win...cause theyre doing it nearly twice as much as they lose. Now, if you were discussing the Jags, Browns, Skins, Saints, Dolphins or a host of other teams at or below .500 then your point is more valid.

You don't win 10/11 games and a division title being average.....not in the NFL. And the AFC North for the most part (save Ravens collapse this year) has been a tough division.

Mike Tomlin is this you?

 

[blitzburghv5]

Mike Tomlin is this you?

Is 10 or 11 wins average ? 8th best record in football aint average.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Is 10 or 11 wins average ? 8th best record in football aint average.

I think because of the "70s" steelers, the fan expects above average performance. We are getting that, but ultimately falling short of desired end. If one steps back and look objectively one will see there are many teams that would be happy with our record / performance. But this being the STEELERS, the most winningest franchise since the merger, we get spoiled. To lose to a lesser team ultimately possibly costing a playoff appearance, I can see many a complaint. I KNOW tomlin has many places he can improve but seems to NOT improve thus leaving similar demise, year in and year out. If we as fans could see improvement along the way, we'd be less hard on him but, we don't see nothing but the same thing over and over.



Salute the nation

 

[Steelr4evr]

Whatever the hell it is isn't going to win a championship with this bullshit type of mentality.IMO.. They killed the team a few years back when they took the smash out of smashmouth. Now it's group hug arm tackle garbage defensively and chunking the ball down the field 40 yards on 3rd&1. It's also getting swept by 3 win teams.

 

[MTC]

Whatever the hell it is isn't going to win a championship with this bullshit type of mentality.IMO.. They killed the team a few years back when they took the smash out of smashmouth. Now it's group hug arm tackle garbage defensively and chunking the ball down the field 40 yards on 3rd&1. It's also getting swept by 3 win teams.

Its watered football. But America has such a huge boner for the NFL that no matter what product is placed on the field, fans are still stupid enough to buy into it and make it a part of them. Like with us. The Steelers and Penguins have always meant something to us because you feel part of something special and to associate yourself with a rich tradition I get it. But fans also need to realize in this day and age of tech its a lot more easy to market, and the downgrade or pussification of our culture in general reflects your big corporations like the NFL. The NFL will not change unless attendance drops for all 32 teams. Football is a dying product and the true essence of the game is ruined for us true fans

*sigh*
Rant done