Haden on Tomlin

[slashsteel]

Could be. Did that stamp start only this season? Did it start after the D was performing "below the line"?

IMO hard to replace the talent and smarts that Timmons has, though. Vince did admirably in that particular spot. Think about what the difference might have been if we had kept Timmons. Suddenly, you are replacing Shaz's spot with Timmons, which is a step down for that position but not as big a step as from Shazier to Big Red or Spence, and you are bringing Vince in for Timmons. How many teams have starting level back up at every position? Much less losing Shaz and the back up we did have. Now you are looking at your 3rd string and expect to have starting level quality there? I doubt any time could fit that requirement at any one position.

I do think that Burns was better last year. Davis was better last year, in some respects, and better this year in others. Haden was an upgrade over ****. I dont remember much about Gay's play this year.

In any event, in a couple of stats that matter, RZ% and PPG, your D did fine last year, lost in the AFCCG to cheaters and, outside of, possibly, Vince over Timmons, every position should have been better. In the draft we took Watt, which instantly upgraded that position. Puzzling.

They tried to bring in the pats ILBer, I know what was signed off on as a confidence in him, because he wasn't signed. But I took it as they really weren't high on Vince.

And IMO some real ****** hindsight. Because really Shazier was your only speedy cover ILber.

And don't get me wrong they made some real solid off-season decisions. Watt,Juju and Haden.

But ultimately that ILber proved to be the biggest weakness. And I am not so sure it was a strength even with Shazier being the all pro caliber ILBer.

If we look at possible scenarios you can avoid (obviously QB isn't one of them)

But if you look at this roster, I think these moves better be made, and all of them this off-season.

Draft a OLBer and ILBer early. Later a WR and OT.

And I am still leaning on them free agent bringing in a ILBer and FS. (with a Mitchell restructure- or cut)

I think it is critical by hook or crook two ILBers are added in some way shape or form. And I am not talking bottom of the barrel additions.

If you look at the roster good depth at

DE
CB

In this manner we can help eliminate the depth issues.

And if the coaches issues still persist? then we have nobody else to blame but them...........

 

[Coryea]

I'm sorry but I called this the first season Butler was DC, that Tomlins had a big hand in this D because it wasn't Butler's D. Butler in interviews after he was named DC said they'd be aggressive, they'd come after QBs, etc. That never happened, you could see the Tampa two all over this defense from the first season Butler took over.

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[ark steel]

The more Tomlin puts his foot into the defense, the worse it gets. The scheme absolutely is 90% of our problem. 2 DL on the goal line, no QB pressure because we are using our OLB as DE. Dropping our LB's into coverage and blitzing our secondary with only 2 DL. The more we morph into this quasi Tampa-2 defense, the worse we get.

We were 1st in the league Sacks/pass attempt

 

[ark steel]

I'm sorry but I called this the first season Butler was DC, that Tomlins had a big hand in this D because it wasn't Butler's D. Butler in interviews after he was named DC said they'd be aggressive, they'd come after QBs, etc. That never happened, you could see the Tampa two all over this defense from the first season Butler took over.

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If Tomlin was really running the D last year, too, why the following?

In any event, in a couple of stats that matter, RZ% and PPG, your D did fine last year, lost in the AFCCG to cheaters and, outside of, possibly, Vince over Timmons, every position should have been better. In the draft we took Watt, which instantly upgraded that position. Puzzling.

 

[slashsteel]

If Tomlin was really running the D last year, too, why the following?

this is what we don't know........

The year to year percentages.

Next time a D player gets interviewed here, a good question perhaps !

 

[Coryea]

If Tomlin was really running the D last year, too, why the following?

That defense has had Tampa two all over for a few seasons, that doesn't mean it sucks every game.

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[ark steel]

They tried to bring in the pats ILBer, I know what was signed off on as a confidence in him, because he wasn't signed. But I took it as they really weren't high on Vince.

And IMO some real ****** hindsight. Because really Shazier was your only speedy cover ILber.

And don't get me wrong they made some real solid off-season decisions. Watt,Juju and Haden.

But ultimately that ILber proved to be the biggest weakness. And I am not so sure it was a strength even with Shazier being the all pro caliber ILBer.

If we look at possible scenarios you can avoid (obviously QB isn't one of them)

But if you look at this roster, I think these moves better be made, and all of them this off-season.

Draft a OLBer and ILBer early. Later a WR and OT.

And I am still leaning on them free agent bringing in a ILBer and FS. (with a Mitchell restructure- or cut)

I think it is critical by hook or crook two ILBers are added in some way shape or form. And I am not talking bottom of the barrel additions.

If you look at the roster good depth at

DE
CB

In this manner we can help eliminate the depth issues.

And if the coaches issues still persist? then we have nobody else to blame but them...........

I don't know how well Dirty Red would have done in place of Shaz. My opinion is "not much better, than Spence did". In that sense, i dont think the BU at Shaz position was good enough, but, again, who has a starting quality back up at that position in the NFL? I guess, doesnt have to be starting level just better than Spence AND was available. I have no idea and I haven't looked at FA's signed as back up ILB and whether they played, either.

What we do know is that we lost Shaz and Dirty Red in the same game so we never got to see how well Red might do with a game or two under his belt.

 

[ark steel]

That defense has had Tampa two all over for a few seasons, that doesn't mean it sucks every game.

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those are annual statistics though. It will suck against some teams and excel versus others. Two years of top 10/11 in RZ and ppg, the 7th in ppg while being 27th in RZ%. Unless i read the stats wrong....

 

[Coryea]

I'm not going to blame Tomlin for not having someone to step in for Shazier, that's impossible

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[slashsteel]

I'm not going to blame Tomlin for not having someone to step in for Shazier, that's impossible

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No that is a Tombert.

As they get praise for bringing needed depth at a position, they also get the finger when they fail to address a position as well.

And I am not saying a Shazier clone, but when you have a player go with experience. And you have a SB caliber team, you might you better discount double check what you have for depth,

I did like initially all the other moves they did make though.

Just unfortunate and bad luck the one position they failed to fortify was the one they lost their best cover LBer.

 

[chipped ham]

More like 10 points, the defense is allowed to hold them to a FG. Again our offense scored 42 points with 545 yards, the defense still gave up 35 points to a **** O with a scrub QB and no wrs. And to make it worse the story came out that Tomlin has been calling the defenses and has taken over alot of the defensive meetings

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But they didn't hold them to a field goal, they surrendered a touchdown. Jacksonville earned 14 points off of two turnovers. Look, I know the defense sucks, and completely sucked against the jagoffs. Yes, they couldn't make a stop, and were the biggest reason that we lost that game. However, their gigantic egg they laid was far from the only reason they lost that game. As I said earlier, I love me some Ben Roethlisberger. Not ashamed to say it either. I wasn't a twinkle in my dads' eye during the '70's, so for me, Ben is my all-time Steeler, and over the last 10 weeks of this past season, he was playing some of his best football. All that said, you can't simply ignore his miscues against the jagoffs because of how he finished the game. His two turnovers lead to points for the opposition, with 7 of them coming directly off of him. If he doesn't force that ball to McDonald (Smith did make a helluva play on it as well), maybe the defense does give up a touchdown after the punt. Seeing the whole game, there's no reason to think that Jacksonville doesn't get something out of it. However, maybe they do make a stand, and Jacksonville gives us the ball back. It was still soooo early in the game, that Jacksonville hadn't taken a complete grasp of momentum at that point. Not until the pick deflated everyone. Even then, the interception is inconsequential if not for the scoop 'n score off of the fumble. If one hadn't watched the game, that touchdown is the difference. Yes, yes, I know, hypotheticals, change the complexion of the game, blah, blah, blah. Simply put, Ben played great, and the offense was money once Ben found his groove. However, the turnovers were huge, no matter how you wanna slice it. The defense was pathetic, and that is truly a gross understatement. But they gave up 38, while we put up 42.

 

[madinsomniac]

Tomlin drafted Dri Archer ... (ducks head and leaves thread)

 

[Ron Burgundy]

But they didn't hold them to a field goal, they surrendered a touchdown. Jacksonville earned 14 points off of two turnovers. Look, I know the defense sucks, and completely sucked against the jagoffs. Yes, they couldn't make a stop, and were the biggest reason that we lost that game. However, their gigantic egg they laid was far from the only reason they lost that game. As I said earlier, I love me some Ben Roethlisberger. Not ashamed to say it either. I wasn't a twinkle in my dads' eye during the '70's, so for me, Ben is my all-time Steeler, and over the last 10 weeks of this past season, he was playing some of his best football. All that said, you can't simply ignore his miscues against the jagoffs because of how he finished the game. His two turnovers lead to points for the opposition, with 7 of them coming directly off of him. If he doesn't force that ball to McDonald (Smith did make a helluva play on it as well), maybe the defense does give up a touchdown after the punt. Seeing the whole game, there's no reason to think that Jacksonville doesn't get something out of it. However, maybe they do make a stand, and Jacksonville gives us the ball back. It was still soooo early in the game, that Jacksonville hadn't taken a complete grasp of momentum at that point. Not until the pick deflated everyone. Even then, the interception is inconsequential if not for the scoop 'n score off of the fumble. If one hadn't watched the game, that touchdown is the difference. Yes, yes, I know, hypotheticals, change the complexion of the game, blah, blah, blah. Simply put, Ben played great, and the offense was money once Ben found his groove. However, the turnovers were huge, no matter how you wanna slice it. The defense was pathetic, and that is truly a gross understatement. But they gave up 38, while we put up 42.

We were down 21 and the dude got us within a FG of tying while throwing 500 yards and 5 TD's. Meantime the defense gave up 38 to Blake F'n Bortles.
Doesn't really upset me though since it spared us from getting beat by Belicheat again.

 

[Coryea]

It's simple, even with the turnover, the offense put up way more yards and points than their season average, the defense gave up way more points than their season average.

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[chipped ham]

We were down 21 and the dude got us within a FG of tying while throwing 500 yards and 5 TD's. Meantime the defense gave up 38 to Blake F'n Bortles.
Doesn't really upset me though since it spared us from getting beat by Belicheat again.

And 14 of those 21 came off of turnovers. I'm not absolving the defense for being hot garbage, but Ben's turnovers played their role no matter how you slice it.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

And 14 of those 21 came off of turnovers. I'm not absolving the defense for being hot garbage, but Ben's turnovers played their role no matter how you slice it.

No doubt. Jags margin of victory was less than what they scored on turnovers. Our defense was still **** though.

 

[topseed]

Like the way he "coddled" Bryant for being immature and divisive.

Some of you guys only see what you want to see. Tomlin is a leader of men.

Too bad this great leader of men couldn't show Bryant the proper path before he got suspended an entire season for repeated drug violations.

Some of you guys only see what you want to see.

 

[topseed]

Jax wasn't some ****** team that got to 13-3 by accident.

Jax didn't get to 13-3, my man, by accident or any other way. They got to 10-6.

That's why the 13-3 Steelers were a touchdown favorite at home. And lost. Again.

 

[Stoney]

And 14 of those 21 came off of turnovers. I'm not absolving the defense for being hot garbage, but Ben's turnovers played their role no matter how you slice it.

Sure, Ben made some mistakes, but then he atoned for them and put up 42 points on one of the league's best defense. In the meantime, our defense made some mistakes, and then kept making them, and then made some more.... The defense owns this one, completely.

 

[Steelerfan]

Tomlin drafted Dri Archer ... (ducks head and leaves thread)

And it led to 166 pages of wonderful glory on this very board. A great pick!

 

[Stryker]

Too bad this great leader of men couldn't show Bryant the proper path before he got suspended an entire season for repeated drug violations.

Some of you guys only see what you want to see.

There's the difference between recognizing behavior that is public, and doing the same for behavior that is private. I doubt Tomlin can read minds, but he sure can read twitter...

 

[black and gold apex]

All you need to know Cleveland. Listen to Harrison on the Pats, practice practice and more practice till you can run the play in your sleep. Tomlin practices only Monday speeches.

 

[ark steel]

All you need to know Cleveland. Listen to Harrison on the Pats, practice practice and more practice till you can run the play in your sleep. Tomlin practices only Monday speeches.

This would be another time for which we SHOULD listen to what a player says? A disgruntled one at that?

 

[ark steel]

Jax didn't get to 13-3, my man, by accident or any other way. They got to 10-6.

That's why the 13-3 Steelers were a touchdown favorite at home. And lost. Again.

Oh, sorry, had the record wrong. In any event, if the O didnt give up the 10 points we win. Why Tomlin called for an INT and a fumble befuddles me.