Haden on Tomlin

[Coryea]

I gave you the 10 instead of the 14. Jax Offense still scores less than our Defense allows, right?

Can you show me the story where Tomlin calls for the turnovers? if he is responsible for the lateral on 4th and 9 he is responsible for the 42 points, right? Oh, wait, that cant be right.

I assume you ignored:

We can play that game all day, if the defense doesn't allow that long pass on 3rd down we win. If we kick the FG instead of the dumb pitch we are tied.

We allowed 35 points to a **** offense, but scored 42 on the #1 defense in all of football. Only you would find away to blame the QB and the offense.
One unit played above average and the other played way below average, yet here you are blaming the unit that actually showed up. The unit that didn't show up was run by the head coach.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[ark steel]

So you're saying the defensive game plan was to give up 35 points?

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

Only if you are purposely obtuse.

The game plan should always be for your offense to score more points that your defense gives up. You want to give up zero, but you are missing STUD in the middle of your D and you KNOW that will not happen. Throw in one bonehead execution where your offense gives up 7 points. Your D should only have to cover that, which they did., I'd suggest that most Defensive game plans are ****** when your #1 player is personally responsible for 10-14 points. I'm also, obviously, if you actually read my post, adding in the questionable coaching decisions.

Jax wasn't some ****** team that got to 13-3 by accident.

You think the O scoring 42 points excuses Ben giving the other team 10-14 points, I do not. You use it to excuse Ben but not the coaches. I don't excuse either. Both are opinions.

But, the fact is that, regardless of how ****** the D played, they gave up less points than we scored. That is not opinion.

 

[ark steel]

We can play that game all day, if the defense doesn't allow that long pass on 3rd down we win. If we kick the FG instead of the dumb pitch we are tied.

We allowed 35 points to a **** offense, but scored 42 on the #1 defense in all of football. Only you would find away to blame the QB and the offense.
One unit played above average and the other played way below average, yet here you are blaming the unit that actually showed up. The unit that didn't show up was run by the head coach.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

I would suggest that giving the other team 10-14 points is below the line....

 

[ark steel]

Did Tomlin approve both of the idiotic 4th and a foot play calls? Did Tomlin call for the asinine onside kick attempt? Did Tomlin approve a game plan that involved coming out throwing from an empty backfield against a team that was vulnerable to the running game? So a defensive coach that has been reported to have taken over the defense gives up lets say 35 points to Blake Bortles and a team that scored 10 ******* points the week before and he still gets no blame for having a **** defense and you want to blame the QB who put up 42 points against the #2 defense in the NFL? What exactly is Tomlin responsible for?

I see you ignored

Even WITH the questionable coaching decisions.

Again.

 

[Steeler Pride]

I would suggest that giving the other team 10-14 points is below the line....

I would suggest giving up 35 points to Blake Bortles is below the line, even for Coach Cliche

 

[Coryea]

I would suggest that giving the other team 10-14 points is below the line....

Yeah if you want to end the game after the strip sack sure, but you keep ignoring 470 yards passing and 5 TDs, that put the offense back above the line.

Taking away the offenses horrendous performance, the Juggernaut that is the Jags offense had 378 yards and 35 points on our defense. I'm guessing that's quite a bit below the line?

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Steeler Pride]

I see you ignored



Again.

So the coaches get a pass for everything but the QB that still put up 42 points does not? LMAO, you can't make this **** up. Tomlin gave up as many points with his **** decision making as Ben gave up on his strip/sack and int.

 

[BAS]

If you view that game in the grand scheme of things of Tomlin-isms -- the Steelers/Jaguars game was a case of "living in their fears".

That's something Tomlin preaches against incessantly, but those late game miscues were ALL based on living in their fear that the Defense would NOT be able to keep Jacksonville from scoring more touchdowns.

Why settle for a field goal on that 1 4th and 1? Because Tomlin believed they needed to score touchdowns, not field goals -- even though time was still available to get the job done.
Why kick the onsides kick? Because Tomlin didn't want to put his defense back on the field.

He coached scared that his defense wasn't up to the task.

 

[ark steel]

I would suggest giving up 35 points to Blake Bortles is below the line, even for Coach Cliche

you can look for where I said it was above the line all you want. You can keep ignoring my "questionable coaching decisions" all you want.

You can keep ignoring that our Offense gave up 10-14 points to put the D in a bind if you want. That doesn't change that it happened.

 

[ark steel]

So the coaches get a pass for everything but the QB that still put up 42 points does not? LMAO, you can't make this **** up. Tomlin gave up as many points with his **** decision making as Ben gave up on his strip/sack and int.

Again, ignore ignore ignore

 

[ark steel]

Yeah if you want to end the game after the strip sack sure, but you keep ignoring 470 yards passing and 5 TDs, that put the offense back above the line.

Taking away the offenses horrendous performance, the Juggernaut that is the Jags offense had 378 yards and 35 points on our defense. I'm guessing that's quite a bit below the line?

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

Ignore, ignore ignore all you want.

 

[Coryea]

Ignore, ignore ignore all you want.

Ignore what, the fact you said a couple questionable coaching decisions?

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[Steeler Pride]

Ignore, ignore ignore all you want.

I would bet $1000 if you asked 100 people why we lost that game maybe 2 people would put the blame on a QB that puts up 42 points. But yeah, the defense did it's job and Tomlin coached a great ******* game. I am sure he had a great game plan devised.........for playing the Pats.

 

[ark steel]

Ignore what, the fact you said a couple questionable coaching decisions?

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

Well, that would indicate that I'm not blaming Ben or the O completely, wouldn't it?

 

[ark steel]

I would bet $1000 if you asked 100 people why we lost that game maybe 2 people would put the blame on a QB that puts up 42 points. But yeah, the defense did it's job and Tomlin coached a great ******* game. I am sure he had a great game plan devised.........for playing the Pats.

did I say the coaches were not at fault? No, you wont find it. I stated that, even with the questionable coaching decisions, the Steeler win without either of those two turnovers by the O. Are you are arguing that this is not true? I don't know how you could.

That doesn't have anything to do with whether the coaches ****** up or not, too.

you can get 100 people and get 100 people to agree and what you have is 100 opinions.

the funny thing is that this is a thread where a player was complimenting the HC and you people can't have that happen or must explain it away.

Player A says something good about HC - explain it away and offer opinions as to why it cannot be true. you cant trust what a player or coach says in public anyway.
Player B says something bad about HC - "SEE, this explains everything!"

 

[Coryea]

Well, that would indicate that I'm not blaming Ben or the O completely, wouldn't it?

You do realize this Tomlins thread is not just about this game right?
The total lack of discipline this team has points right to him.
This defense has been pretty bad the past few seasons, now it comes out that he's been calling g the defense and running the meetings.
The head coach is talking about games weeks and months down the road.

Even the biggest Tomlin fan has to admit, he needs to get his **** together.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[slashsteel]

good debate but yinz both right.

have to win the turnover battle, and Tomlin is a scooby dum in certain decision making situations.

Unfortunately those situations seem to be when it matters the most.

 

[ark steel]

You do realize this Tomlins thread is not just about this game right?
The total lack of discipline this team has points right to him.
This defense has been pretty bad the past few seasons, now it comes out that he's been calling g the defense and running the meetings.
The head coach is talking about games weeks and months down the road.

Even the biggest Tomlin fan has to admit, he needs to get his **** together.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app

I realize that this thread was started as a link to where a player complimented Tomlin. Which, as we all know, cannot be tolerated.

I'm a positive guy regarding sports. Doesn't mean I don't see where the flaws, just means I can see other things too, and am not blinded by others opinions.

As terrible as the D has been, in the 2017 regular season, they were 7th in points per game, which is the stat that matters. They were 5th in ypg. Losing a player like Shaz can **** up your whole middle. Losing his back up in the same game, which is late in the year when you are lucky to find an average replacement on the couch, can be a tough thing to overcome. Vince played way better this year than I expected, but i would think his role changed quite a bit, along with the other defenders, can do. In 2015 and 2016, we were 11th and 10 in scoring D. In the prior 2 years we were 6th and 4th in RZ% on D. This year, we were 28th. if the coaching and players haven't changed, why did this happen? Were the coaches good last year and said "**** it" this year? Could there be some other reason?

Even with that, they actually beat the beloved *'s regardless of what the scoreboard says. Even past, better Defenses could not be the *'s and Brady, by the way. That didn't start with Tomlin.

Even with all of the issues this year (poor discipline, whatever), the team was able to scrabble to 13-3 and, barely got beat in the playoffs by a team that isn't a sack of ****, like that loss to the ravens a few years ago (three?) or by a sack of cheating ********* like last year. I'd suggest that the team, as a whole, had better talent on O this year than last and last year we went to the AFCCG to lose to cheaters.

Getting to the AFCCG last year with, IMO, lesser talent had to have something to coaching. So, what was different about the coaching this year?

 

[Steeler Pride]

did I say the coaches were not at fault? No, you wont find it. I stated that, even with the questionable coaching decisions, the Steeler win without either of those two turnovers by the O. Are you are arguing that this is not true?"

There is no way to know what might have happened. If Ben doesn't throw the pick and it falls incomplete, we punt, it gets blocked, 6 points. We punt and they return it for a TD, 6 points. We punt and our **** D lets them march down the field again, 6 points. Saying we would win without a turnover is bullshit and only helps drive your narrative. 42 points with 10 points directly on the offense should net you a win 99 times out of 100. Is it any surprise that Tomlin would lead the team that would be the 1 in 100?

 

[slashsteel]

I realize that this thread was started as a link to where a player complimented Tomlin. Which, as we all know, cannot be tolerated.

I'm a positive guy regarding sports. Doesn't mean I don't see where the flaws, just means I can see other things too, and am not blinded by others opinions.

As terrible as the D has been, in the 2017 regular season, they were 7th in points per game, which is the stat that matters. They were 5th in ypg. Losing a player like Shaz can **** up your whole middle. Losing his back up in the same game, which is late in the year when you are lucky to find an average replacement on the couch, can be a tough thing to overcome. Vince played way better this year than I expected, but i would think his role changed quite a bit, along with the other defenders, can do. In 2015 and 2016, we were 11th and 10 in scoring D. In the prior 2 years we were 6th and 4th in RZ% on D. This year, we were 28th. if the coaching and players haven't changed, why did this happen? Were the coaches good last year and said "**** it" this year? Could there be some other reason?

Even with that, they actually beat the beloved *'s regardless of what the scoreboard says. Even past, better Defenses could not be the *'s and Brady, by the way. That didn't start with Tomlin.

Even with all of the issues this year (poor discipline, whatever), the team was able to scrabble to 13-3 and, barely got beat in the playoffs by a team that isn't a sack of ****, like that loss to the ravens a few years ago (three?) or by a sack of cheating ********* like last year. I'd suggest that the team, as a whole, had better talent on O this year than last and last year we went to the AFCCG to lose to cheaters.

Getting to the AFCCG last year with, IMO, lesser talent had to have something to coaching. So, what was different about the coaching this year?

Well the run D struggled with Shazier.

What changed this year? perhaps one coach tried to put his stamp on the D more?

And they sat on their hands and didn't bring in adequate ILB depth after Timmons left?

So lack of talent + a coach adding his stamp, which could easily have led to that confused as hell look the D players had often throughout the season.

 

[ark steel]

good debate but yinz both right.

have to win the turnover battle, and Tomlin is a scooby dum in certain decision making situations.

Unfortunately those situations seem to be when it matters the most.

The 4th and 1 toss was mind numbing. I'm not too concerned about whether we went for it or kicked a FG, but the toss....meh.

The 4th and short pass to JuJu wasnt what I would do, but, for the most part, the ball hit JuJu in his hands and he, normally, makes tough catches.

The 4th and longs where there were looooong TD passes? Those worked, but are those the plays you call when you are trying to stay in the game and only need 10 yards? Scary, but they worked and you do want the ball in your playmakers' hands when the game was on the line.

 

[slashsteel]

The 4th and 1 toss was mind numbing. I'm not too concerned about whether we went for it or kicked a FG, but the toss....meh.

The 4th and short pass to JuJu wasnt what I would do, but, for the most part, the ball hit JuJu in his hands and he, normally, makes tough catches.

The 4th and longs where there were looooong TD passes? Those worked, but are those the plays you call when you are trying to stay in the game and only need 10 yards? Scary, but they worked and you do want the ball in your playmakers' hands when the game was on the line.

I think they thought Jags were stronger against the pass, and could convert some 4th and 1's. But I think when the first one fails miserably. Just maybe you get some points the next go around. And I still think that onside kick was moronic.

 

[Steeler Pride]

I realize that this thread was started as a link to where a player complimented Tomlin. Which, as we all know, cannot be tolerated.

I'm a positive guy regarding sports. Doesn't mean I don't see where the flaws, just means I can see other things too, and am not blinded by others opinions.

As terrible as the D has been, in the 2017 regular season, they were 7th in points per game, which is the stat that matters. They were 5th in ypg. Losing a player like Shaz can **** up your whole middle. Losing his back up in the same game, which is late in the year when you are lucky to find an average replacement on the couch, can be a tough thing to overcome. Vince played way better this year than I expected, but i would think his role changed quite a bit, along with the other defenders, can do. In 2015 and 2016, we were 11th and 10 in scoring D. In the prior 2 years we were 6th and 4th in RZ% on D. This year, we were 28th. if the coaching and players haven't changed, why did this happen? Were the coaches good last year and said "**** it" this year? Could there be some other reason?

Even with that, they actually beat the beloved *'s regardless of what the scoreboard says. Even past, better Defenses could not be the *'s and Brady, by the way. That didn't start with Tomlin.

Even with all of the issues this year (poor discipline, whatever), the team was able to scrabble to 13-3 and, barely got beat in the playoffs by a team that isn't a sack of ****, like that loss to the ravens a few years ago (three?) or by a sack of cheating ********* like last year. I'd suggest that the team, as a whole, had better talent on O this year than last and last year we went to the AFCCG to lose to cheaters.

Getting to the AFCCG last year with, IMO, lesser talent had to have something to coaching. So, what was different about the coaching this year?

The more Tomlin puts his foot into the defense, the worse it gets. The scheme absolutely is 90% of our problem. 2 DL on the goal line, no QB pressure because we are using our OLB as DE. Dropping our LB's into coverage and blitzing our secondary with only 2 DL. The more we morph into this quasi Tampa-2 defense, the worse we get.

 

[ark steel]

Well the run D struggled with Shazier.

What changed this year? perhaps one coach tried to put his stamp on the D more?

And they sat on their hands and didn't bring in adequate ILB depth after Timmons left?

So lack of talent + a coach adding his stamp, which could easily have led to that confused as hell look the D players had often throughout the season.

Could be. Did that stamp start only this season? Did it start after the D was performing "below the line"?

IMO hard to replace the talent and smarts that Timmons has, though. Vince did admirably in that particular spot. Think about what the difference might have been if we had kept Timmons. Suddenly, you are replacing Shaz's spot with Timmons, which is a step down for that position but not as big a step as from Shazier to Big Red or Spence, and you are bringing Vince in for Timmons. How many teams have starting level back up at every position? Much less losing Shaz and the back up we did have. Now you are looking at your 3rd string and expect to have starting level quality there? I doubt any time could fit that requirement at any one position.

I do think that Burns was better last year. Davis was better last year, in some respects, and better this year in others. Haden was an upgrade over ****. I dont remember much about Gay's play this year.

In any event, in a couple of stats that matter, RZ% and PPG, your D did fine last year, lost in the AFCCG to cheaters and, outside of, possibly, Vince over Timmons, every position should have been better. In the draft we took Watt, which instantly upgraded that position. Puzzling.

 

[Coryea]

I agree we beat the Pats, and I gave Tomlin a ton of credit for that, but why can't they play that defense vs ****** teams???
I mean everyone knew they play zone with 2DL vs everyone else, especially vs ****** QBs.

I'm not on the fire Tomlin band wagon, I think if he tightens afew things up we can actually get to the super bowl.

He can't set ****** examples by talking about teams down the road, or allowing players and coaches to come late, etc, it just comes off as unfocused.

Sent from my XT1585 using Steeler Nation mobile app