GOAL line Defense weak?

[Stryker]

Matakevich looked pretty damn good blocking that punt. I keep him out there if he keeps providing splash plays.

 

[Coryea]

Hell Ray Lewis needed Siragusa and Adams to keep guys off him so he could make plays, the same goes for Shazier

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[antdrewjosh]

It still was a goal line situation, the D had to have three big guys upfront. Why is it impossible to have a 3 DL front in nickel and short?

The steelers held the Browns to 50 something yards on the ground for the game mostly using that 2DL nickle front. The Browns didnt score because we were in nickle. They scored because guys didnt do their job on the play. I can see if the Browns were in a goalline formation and we didnt match it.

 

[steelville]

Sure what we need is more Big Dan, a guy that can't even stand out playing against 3rd string O-lineman that are now working for UPS!

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...-daniel-mccullers-finished-season-strong-run/

 

[Coach]

On the goal line we had 2DL, and neither was Hargrave, that is idiotic to ever just have 2DL on a goal line, more than likely your LB is going to get eliminated

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Yes, Vs the run or the pass I think we have some issues with short yardage or goal line, and the coaching staff doesn't help by playing just 2 DL players, neither of which was McCullers who is the hardest man to move backward.

 

[Coach]

Dupree didn't play because of a should injury before the 3rd preseason game. Dupree said the injury (undisclosed at the time) wasn't serious but lingering and didn't want to go through what he did last year on IR. So how you feel Tomlin is responsible is beyond intelligence.


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I was referring to last season when Tomlin rushed Dupree back. That did not work out well for the team. And you know it. Let Tuitt heal. Do not make the same mistake again. Tomlin when it comes to injuries is penny wise, pound foolish.

As for Rudy,I refer to the too small and too slow player with red hair, who I like as a backup and special teams player, but not as a goal line or nickel defender.

 

[Coryea]

The steelers held the Browns to 50 something yards on the ground for the game mostly using that 2DL nickle front. The Browns didnt score because we were in nickle. They scored because guys didnt do their job on the play. I can see if the Browns were in a goalline formation and we didnt match it.

We did shut the Browns running game down, but most of the time when we'd go 2DL, Kizer had all day, but losing Tuitt didn't help so they had to keep guys fresh, I get that. On the goal line, it shouldn't matter if they come out in a spread formation, using only 2DL is dumb, and neither being your most difficult guy to move, that leaves 3, 315lb+ lineman vs 250lb LBs in basically a pushing battle.
My main complain is that all training camp the writers were saying they would do less of that and Vince Williams would come off the field on passing downs, but that didn't happen.

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[antdrewjosh]

We did shut the Browns running game down, but most of the time when we'd go 2DL, Kizer had all day, but losing Tuitt didn't help so they had to keep guys fresh, I get that. On the goal line, it shouldn't matter if they come out in a spread formation, using only 2DL is dumb, and neither being your most difficult guy to move, that leaves 3, 315lb+ lineman vs 250lb LBs in basically a pushing battle.
My main complain is that all training camp the writers were saying they would do less of that and Vince Williams would come off the field on passing downs, but that didn't happen.

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What your forgetting is if we run a third DL out there against 3 WR and a TE they will pass and we are still in a mis match type of situation. Its pick your poison. Opening nite against the patriots couple of years ago they did the opposite but same. They lined up in goal line..we matched up but then they motioned out gronk and chandler we had linebackers on them wide. There was was grumbles of why didnt we have DBs in to cover.. cause of we had done thay they would of just ran the ball..pick your poison.

 

[Coryea]

You can use 3 DL 3LB 5DB's. I get using 2 DL sometimes every team does, but IMO we need to get away from that with the way the NFL is now, quick passes and alot of runs from spread formations. You need a push from your dline in the face of qb's to be able to knock passes down or not allow qb's to step into throws. Alot of times your outside rush doesn't have time to get there.
If you only have 2 DL, it's pretty easy to run vs that as well. On the goal line with only a yard to defend that's basically a glorified pushing contest, and only having 2 DL is basically allowing a rushing td pretty easily, by the time anoyone sheds a block it's too late.
Williams has no reason to be on the field on passing downs, and that's what the beat writers said, the Steelers learned that, but Williams was out there like 82% of the snaps. You bring up NE, what do you think they'll do when they line up and see Williams out there? They'll target him all day


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[antdrewjosh]

You can use 3 DL 3LB 5DB's. I get using 2 DL sometimes every team does, but IMO we need to get away from that with the way the NFL is now, quick passes and alot of runs from spread formations. You need a push from your dline in the face of qb's to be able to knock passes down or not allow qb's to step into throws. Alot of times your outside rush doesn't have time to get there.
If you only have 2 DL, it's pretty easy to run vs that as well. On the goal line with only a yard to defend that's basically a glorified pushing contest, and only having 2 DL is basically allowing a rushing td pretty easily, by the time anoyone sheds a block it's too late.
Williams has no reason to be on the field on passing downs, and that's what the beat writers said, the Steelers learned that, but Williams was out there like 82% of the snaps. You bring up NE, what do you think they'll do when they line up and see Williams out there? They'll target him all day


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I just see it as a pick your poison type of deal. Execution... get off blocks be in the right gap

 

[Coryea]

I just see it as a pick your poison type of deal. Execution... get off blocks be in the right gap

I don't disagree with that, but vs Brady, Rodgers etc, would you rather have Williams out there or another DB on passing downs, IMO that's a no brainer. Goal line situations there's no time to get off your block, we basically have a team with a rookie QB exactly what they wanted on that play, I just can't comprehend that one.

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[Hines57]

Week 1 is too small of a sample to start nit picking. Lets get another game or two of tape before we start really breaking this team down.

 

[Litos]

The steelers held the Browns to 50 something yards on the ground for the game mostly using that 2DL nickle front. The Browns didnt score because we were in nickle. They scored because guys didnt do their job on the play. I can see if the Browns were in a goalline formation and we didnt match it.

it was the 2 yard line, it wasn't 6 yards they needed to score. Is not the same situation to be comapred

 

[antdrewjosh]

it was the 2 yard line, it wasn't 6 yards they needed to score. Is not the same situation to be comapred

And they were still in 3 WR set with a TE and a RB. We play nickle. Werent we in a goalline set when Dirty Red missed the tackle on kizer? Or at least im assuming wew were since Red was on the game. So goal line D or nickle didnt work. Execution works no matter what the scheme is. Get off blocks and be in your gaps

 

[Coach]

Week 1 is too small of a sample to start nit picking. Lets get another game or two of tape before we start really breaking this team down.

Well, nit picking doesn't seem to matter much when you win. People forget about it.

We beat the Browns via narrow margin and had a blocked punt TD score being the difference. The team was undisciplined as a whole.

Had we lost then deploying 2 DL players only in a goal line situation would have been a more visible issue.

I say it's an issue now, and wonder if any reporter asked Tomlin this question. Does anyone know? When someone asked what type of questions would I ask the coaches after a game this one would be one.

The coaching staff needs to put the players in the best position to win, and IMO they did not on this touchdown play against the defense.

 

[Litos]

And they were still in 3 WR set with a TE and a RB. We play nickle. Werent we in a goalline set when Dirty Red missed the tackle on kizer? Or at least im assuming wew were since Red was on the game. So goal line D or nickle didnt work. Execution works no matter what the scheme is. Get off blocks and be in your gaps

rather have a sized enough guy to win in the trenches in short and goal. 3 DL, 3 LB, 3 CB, 2 S if they are showing 3 WR, 1 TE

 

[Coach]

rather have a sized enough guy to win in the trenches in short and goal. 3 DL, 3 LB, 3 CB, 2 S if they are showing 3 WR, 1 TE

Can Antdrewjosh admit this, or does he still think just 2 DL players was the right call?

 

[Hines57]

Well, nit picking doesn't seem to matter much when you win. People forget about it.

We beat the Browns via narrow margin and had a blocked punt TD score being the difference. The team was undisciplined as a whole.

Had we lost then deploying 2 DL players only in a goal line situation would have been a more visible issue.

I say it's an issue now, and wonder if any reporter asked Tomlin this question. Does anyone know? When someone asked what type of questions would I ask the coaches after a game this one would be one.

The coaching staff needs to put the players in the best position to win, and IMO they did not on this touchdown play against the defense.

We did win the game. We were able to run out the clock and take knees. It wasn't a pretty win. We can all agree on that. Lets hope they are done with the JV performance for week 2.

 

[Litos]

We did win the game. We were able to run out the clock and take knees. It wasn't a pretty win. We can all agree on that. Lets hope they are done with the JV performance for week 2.

the question is, will they change their D scheme in the goal line? or any short yardage situation for that matter?

 

[antdrewjosh]

Can Antdrewjosh admit this, or does he still think just 2 DL players was the right call?

Admit what?? It didnt work in that instance. Do you or anyone else have proof that it doesnt work in every instance that they have used it?? No you dont you are just using this one instance. They used it for the majority of the game and held them to 50 somethings yds. I dont know if its the right call or not. Its what they do and practice all week. It worked pretty good all game except that instance.

 

[Ike Kelly]

I was referring to last season when Tomlin rushed Dupree back. That did not work out well for the team. And you know it. Let Tuitt heal. Do not make the same mistake again. Tomlin when it comes to injuries is penny wise, pound foolish.

As for Rudy,I refer to the too small and too slow player with red hair, who I like as a backup and special teams player, but not as a goal line or nickel defender.

What does Bud Dupree's injury last season have to do with this year? He had core surgery. Cope gave a superb explanation on the procedure and recovery in another thread. Last Year. How is this relevant to Tuitt, much less Tomlin rushing Dupree back in 2016.

Recap.....core surgery after the draft in 2016 IIRC. Was on the PUP list to start camp. Then went on IR designate. Tell us with your "you know it" wisdom how does Tomlin rush Dupree back when he is on PUP and then IR?

As for injuries, coaches only can follow what the team MDs advise. Yes or No. CBA enforces it, and pretty sure GMs follow what the MDs or NFL offices say. Otherwise they can be fined or have picks taken away. So your penny wise/pound foolish analogy is DOA in regards to coaches. Unless they are the GM too.


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[Coach]

What does Bud Dupree's injury last season have to do with this year? He had core surgery. Cope gave a superb explanation on the procedure and recovery in another thread. Last Year. How is this relevant to Tuitt, much less Tomlin rushing Dupree back in 2016.

Recap.....core surgery after the draft in 2016 IIRC. Was on the PUP list to start camp. Then went on IR designate. Tell us with your "you know it" wisdom how does Tomlin rush Dupree back when he is on PUP and then IR?

As for injuries, coaches only can follow what the team MDs advise. Yes or No. CBA enforces it, and pretty sure GMs follow what the MDs or NFL offices say. Otherwise they can be fined or have picks taken away. So your penny wise/pound foolish analogy is DOA in regards to coaches. Unless they are the GM too.


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Ike,

Think about it. If Bud had surgery at the start of camp, we get him back for the regular season sooner. Tomlin let him play / practice with the injury in camp. This cost the Steelers regular games without Dupree. Does this make sense? Wouldn't having surgery sooner been better for the Steelers and Dupree? Please give me a YES or a NO.

How is this relevant to Tuitt? He just tore a bicep muscle. Do not rush him back, let the man heal. He's a key player and the worst thing to due to a new injury muscle tear is to let a player who just signed a big deal and might be pressing to prove it on the field and make the injury worse.

I have also seen Tomlin mismanaged Bell at the bit with injuries. And other players before him.

PS: The head coach can override what the MD or players thinks. It's called putting the player on the inactive list for the next game if he's listed as questionable or doubtful. I say let Tuitt rest. Playing him next week would be foolish risk and long term strategy / goals for the team. Tomlin says he's a denigrate gambler. Not this time I hope.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Ike,

Think about it. If Bud had surgery at the start of camp, we get him back for the regular season sooner. Tomlin let him play / practice with the injury in camp. This cost the Steelers regular games without Dupree. Does this make sense? Wouldn't having surgery sooner been better for the Steelers and Dupree? Please give me a YES or a NO.

How is this relevant to Tuitt? He just tore a bicep muscle. Do not rush him back, let the man heal. He's a key player and the worst thing to due to a new injury muscle tear is to let a player who just signed a big deal and might be pressing to prove it on the field and make the injury worse.

I have also seen Tomlin mismanaged Bell at the bit with injuries. And other players before him.

PS: The head coach can override what the MD or players thinks. It's called putting the player on the inactive list for the next game if he's listed as questionable or doubtful. I say let Tuitt rest. Playing him next week would be foolish risk and long term strategy / goals for the team. Tomlin says he's a denigrate gambler. Not this time I hope.

Now Tomlin is responsible for injuries and playing guys over doctor orders.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I've never heard or read of Tomlin referring to himself as a "denigrate gambler", it doesn't even make any sense.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ike,

Think about it. If Bud had surgery at the start of camp, we get him back for the regular season sooner. Tomlin let him play / practice with the injury in camp. This cost the Steelers regular games without Dupree. Does this make sense? Wouldn't having surgery sooner been better for the Steelers and Dupree? Please give me a YES or a NO.

How is this relevant to Tuitt? He just tore a bicep muscle. Do not rush him back, let the man heal. He's a key player and the worst thing to due to a new injury muscle tear is to let a player who just signed a big deal and might be pressing to prove it on the field and make the injury worse.

I have also seen Tomlin mismanaged Bell at the bit with injuries. And other players before him.

PS: The head coach can override what the MD or players thinks. It's called putting the player on the inactive list for the next game if he's listed as questionable or doubtful. I say let Tuitt rest. Playing him next week would be foolish risk and long term strategy / goals for the team. Tomlin says he's a denigrate gambler. Not this time I hope.

Why don't you think about what you are saying.......you seem to think Tomlin made Dupree wait to have surgery. No, the player makes the decision whether to have any medical procedure as recommended by the team doctors. Logically the head coach doesn't recommend any type of medical protocol. The team doctors do.

So to answer your question Yes having the procedure earlier probably would have provided the opportunity for 48 to not be on IR when the 2016 started. But Tomlin didn't keep him from having surgery, Dupree and/or the MDs did. The HC and GM makes the decision on placing players on PUP or IR, not on having medical procedures. One more thing, if a player is on the PUP he cannot participate in camp. So how you think Tomlin let him practice in camp is bewildering.

According to the various reports, namely Tuitt himself, he didn't suffer a torn bicep. And who is rushing him back? Tomlin sat him from practice. How is that rushing him? He sat 48 after he missed last weeks Friday practice. Seems like the opposite of your contention that Tomlin forces players to participate when they are injured.

How has Tomlin mismanaged Bell's injuries? For the love of Mike, 26 went on IR after his knee injuries. His groin pull was apparently a lingering issue that was aggravated during the NE game. There were no problems playing with it before. Did Tomlin impair 26 from treatment on his injuries? Are YOU even thinking about it?

Tomlin says he is a denigrate gambler? Link for this please. Denigrate (criticizing) gambler? What is that? Or do you just pick words and not understand what they mean?

Finally, your last point. HC can override what a player or medical team member thinks. Ludicrous. It proves your understanding of the subject matter is elementary. The CBA and more importantly the League prohibits the team, HC or otherwise, not following the MD advisement on player injuries. It's the reason teams (even the Bengals) have large medical staffs. So the HC, GM and player are fully aware of the diagnosis and treatment of any injury. Otherwise the team would be vilified by the Union and public opinion for a team allowing a non-medical professional to jeopardize a player's career by ignoring a MD recommendation. It's also a quick way for a lawsuit from a player to the team and League. You've heard of the concussion issue the League is addressing progressively, correct?